should GM-H be worried?

[bathurst77]

Has the launch of the new Commy been a disaster? I dont mean is the car good or bad, I mean the media and public launch.

Add this to Holdens other issues, is the Big red in trouble?
TO quote another "Please Consider..."

1) Besides the Die hard Holden fans who naturally think its amazing and the die hard ford fans"Its crap mate", the average punter are either indifferent to teh design or think it looks a lot like the current magna/camry/BA.
Compare this to when the VT came out everyone drooled over it. It made the EL look 20 years old (well..i guess it was nearly). This is the design that has to carry commy through nearly a decade. it should be "WOW!"
Its not, not to the average punter.. its "yeh OK"

2) THE furore about fuel consumption. Holden arent talking, the media are all over it. Even radio stations like sydney's ABC who normally ignore cars are playing it. Before its released, its already labled a "Gas Guzzler"

3) NO full sized spare tyre. The last few month has been ful of the media serving it up to car makers who dont have full spares "not suitable to Australia, these people dont understand Australian conditions" now "Australias own do it" Drive.com got stuck into them for it already. plus the cost of a set of tyres for VE vs VZ.

4) No aircond on base model. agian "australias own" is not for australian conditions. I guess a light weight spare and no aircond will enable them to shave a litel off the fuel econo sticker, and give it cheap price sticker, but who would buy one like that? So the price/fuel sticker is meaningless.

5) Drive.com.au which normally gushes over anything with a holden badge were luke warm at best. Reminding people that the commodore has had more recalls then any other aussie car, saying that the base model looked cheap, that holden seemed to be embarrassed by it, that "holden seem to be in another world", that Holdne has misled us on tyres, and most of the issues I have mentioned here.

6) and now a strike means they cant even build them! Not their fault but still its gotta hurt

7 the fiasco with the Ute ad.

8) the problem with the new barina's crash test.

9) the poor media over the Daiwoo based little cars.

The launch of an all new Commodore that has to last about 10 years, should be Holdens triumph moment when they win all the awards, when everyone loves them, when everyone is excited. Instead they seem to be on the defensive "its only a couple of beers more" -which had ABC callers lining up to make jokes about imported hand made belgian bocks.
I think there must be some sleepless nights for the General's Generals.

[freaky]

youll find model cycles will be about 6 years now. not 9-10 anymore.

[Full Spectrum]

You never take what people say on these type of blogs.
It's really stupid to have them, You need to speak face 2 face with people not have them sit at there PC and type.

One thing that contradicts the Post 5# Was i read it may be 2 different people writing it but, Drive was saying the base looked like they had to make it look cheaper because it seem to be over and above what the VY-VZ wasn't thats more classy without adding to make it seem better. This time it's got it all and they need to real it in. that is what i read last night.

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

You never take what people say on these type of blogs.
It's really stupid to have them, You need to speak face 2 face with people not have them sit at there PC and type.

One thing that contradicts the Post 5# Was i read it may be 2 different people writing it but, Drive was saying the base looked like they had to make it look cheaper because it seem to be over and above what the VY-VZ wasn't thats more classy without adding to make it seem better. This time it's got it all and they need to real it in. that is what i read last night.

Talk about contradictions.

I think the media have been fair to the VE and the launch has gone ok so far but the fuel issue could have been handled better by GM-H. At the end of the day its their public release and they can do whatever the hell they want.

[bailey04]

I agree with you about it not being made for Australian conditions.. This was a very poor oversight on there part... Especially sine "Holden Means a Great Deal to Australia"!!

I also read somewhere that the have shortened there product life cycle down to about 6 years not 10..

[ADSXR8]

Originally Posted by freaky

youll find model cycles will be about 6 years now. not 9-10 anymore.

I dont think it will. With fuel moving the way it is, less money will be spent in developing large car cars.

[honer]

lol @ no aircon

good game holden !

[rst2000]

Originally Posted by honer

lol @ no aircon

good game holden !

i'm pretty sure i read that aircond was now standard with the ve.

[Poetic Justice]

nope

VE commodore omega no air, have to pay extra for it.

I don't think it is anything more than just a new model, it's not the saviour of the world and I believe that new Camry and new Aurion are going to wipe the whole market clean personally..

[PepeLePew]

A few things in my mind
1) Im amazed by the number of styling cues I see in it from other cars. BUT...overall its pretty good looking. The over-flared guards and an 'odd' side profile are the only odditys to me. Spunky interiors in dark colours but Im not sure we're ready for the brighter stuff, or the Astra like treatment (Astra being one of very few cars Ive ever driven I had to pull out a handbook)
2) Fuel...maybe GM have some surprises in store, they need to have some given the unfavourable expectation.
3) Dont treat ppl like they're silly, marketing games with pricing can be a little transparent
4) I hope they're done a ton of work on the lil V6 to haul it, in VZ it was pretty disappointing and in a heavier car well.....
5) It'll still be successful REGARDLESS

GM have it hard, to release a large car now is a tough act....hopefully for Ford the air over fuel clears a bit by the time of Orion

[Mark351]

Nope, $2000 option on Omega

[Boss 290]

its the 21st centurary and i don't care what brand of car it is, every car should come standard with air con. i mean seriously if the car doesn't have air con, power windows and central locking...whats seperating them from old cars?. the car companies should be heading forward in the future not backwardd..in this tight buissenss there has to be something that sets you apart from the others

[XRated]

A $2k option?!

I think Holden will get a lot of the naive public sitting down ready to sign off and only then realise that air-con (that was in the demo "Omega" they just test-drove) is an extra 5-7% of the actual cost of the car itself.

If sales don't go too well I'm sure they'll have no choice but to make it standard - as well as a full-sized spare.

[ivorya]

As the guy from lease plan said, it's the wrong car at the wrong time.

lets hope FORD are watching and are able adapt to the times better.

[BA GT-HO]

Two thousand dollars!?

Wow.

Does the XT come with air standard? Or is it an option? And if so how much $ are we looking at?

[pauljh74]

In the paper (carsguide), it says they will launch with a special edition Omega-V series that has air-con, rear spoiler and 17" alloys for $500 over the base price. The base model Omega without air but with auto, will be $34490. For that type of car,locally made, in Australia's climate, it's pretty ordinary or it still not to be standard. It's fitted to the majority of cars they sell optioned or not.

[HSE2]

I reckon the launch was like the build up. Out of control and it’s only going to get tougher for car companies !

But not bad enough to have hurt them, just it could have been done better.

Public launch yet they appeared to allow camera phones in while a media embargo was in force. That again allowed shots that didn’t and don’t do the car justice. I know the very first picture I saw of the orange SSV made it look narrow and tall and I swear without trying to be funny it looked like a Camry. I believe in first impressions so if I had those thoughts then it’s reasonable to think other might as well. Where is the greatest percentage of buyers situated? It’s those people you have to convince no the ones standing right in front of you.

In marketing once you allow that sort of thinking to creep in you have do nearly twice as much promotion to un ring that bell. My thoughts on design are very squarely linked back to that first encounter.

If it had been me I would have had the official shots showing the car in the way the owners wanted it to be portrayed released before the unveiling. The small amount of people present at the official program is nothing to the exposure that is after all the end game.

Then to have the V8s on display and not be able to field questions on fuel consumption showed or at least portrayed a company out of touch with today. With the refusal to answer questions came the claims of a cover up which forced Holden into day two talking about a subject they obviously weren’t in a position to cover in its entirety, further leading to claims the car is underdone.

I know in the UK one car company has been put on notice about breaches of road rules to avoid the press from taking “Spy Shots” Allegedly the company employed driver took to the foot path to run a red light in attempting to avoid having a photo of the car taken, in the process, coming within inches of knocking people over. It has been suggested that employees test driving cars under such conditions are subject to not only the road rules but in affect are in a working environment and subject to the full weight of equivalent OH and S investigation and penalties.

We are nearly to the point where companies are going to have to give careful consideration to revealing the car and then completing any public road testing undisguised.

Holden were right as it is hardly a drip feed approach while so much information is being released at the one time. It’s so much, that the details are getting missed by all those who aren’t truly fanatics or genuine industry observers.

[98_Club]

While I don't like it, VZ Exec didn't come standard with air-con either - $2,250 option. Seems to have sold OK........

[Dr Smith]

I have to say and I know I'm a Ford fan, however the BA launch was just so much better received. Sure it pi**ed off the traditional media, as it bypassed them somewhat by using the internet to great effect. However the VE is copping some negative press, mostly for not letting out economy and weight figures, I just jead on LS1 that someone has read the sticker on an Omega parked in Elisabeth SA, and it says 11.0L/100Km. When VE design began fuel wasn't as huge an issue as it is today. Hopefully Orion, with it's later release date has some opporunity to look at this issue with even more effort. Sometimes being last to market can be a good thing, helped of course by having a current product that is considered the class leader. Those first mag comparo's will be very interesting.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by ADSF6

I dont think it will. With fuel moving the way it is, less money will be spent in developing large car cars.

You would think that. The biggest thing about VE for me is that they have had so long to develop this car and yet it has so many elements that are current and shared, that they should have been getting just a little bit nervous. But then they say>>>>>

It would appear according to Denny that VE will be the start of quicker "reskin cycles" not dissimilar to what Ford did with BA, except that wasn't by choice. The VE platform will live on but the accustomed "cosmetic" upgrades will be more substantial. At least that’s my understanding of what Holden are saying.

[vztrt]

Ford are worried about the VE and know they need to do something big with Orion. Some of the standards on the VE models are quite good, quality is much better on the car and the interior shows differences between the pov pack and the higher models. VE's biggest problem is people still scared over the price of Fuel and if large cars will keep selling in this country.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ford are worried about the VE and know they need to do something big with Orion. Some of the standards on the VE models are quite good, quality is much better on the car and the interior shows differences between the pov pack and the higher models. VE's biggest problem is people still scared over the price of Fuel and if large cars will keep selling in this country.

Not sure how anyone can comment of standards or quality aspects as the car isnt even in showrooms yet...
Personally i think Ford will be rather relieved by what's presented (or missing) on paper...

"Mass discounting" can create the perception that the manufacturer lacks confidence in its own product to sell against its competition on its merits.

Mazda did just the opposite when the 3 series was first released, they refused to discount because they knew it was going to be a great seller and guess what, it sold like hotcakes..
Fuel figures missing is a BIG issue, they should have held the release back till they finished testing, maybe they knew it was going to be a negative in this sensitive market and didnt want this dissapointment to over shadow the release "fanfare"?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Not sure how anyone can comment of standards or quality aspects as the car isnt even in showrooms yet...
Personally i think Ford will be rather relieved by what's presented (or missing) on paper...

This is from people in the know, same as the fact that I know Ford are worried. This isn't my friends mates dog info.
But either way Fleet companies will buy the cheaper car, how do you think Toyota sold so many Corolla's last month.

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

THE furore about fuel consumption. Holden arent talking, the media are all over it. Even radio stations like sydney's ABC who normally ignore cars are playing it. Before its released, its already labled a "Gas Guzzler"

Wont be any different when any other large car is released. Probably will be worse for Orion. Cant imagine fuel prices will go down by then.

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I guess a light weight spare and no aircond will enable them to shave a litel off the fuel econo sticker, and give it cheap price sticker, but who would buy one like that? So the price/fuel sticker is meaningless.

Would the space saver spare and the lack of air con really account for a full L per 100km? I didnt think it would make that much difference.

Originally Posted by bathurst77

the problem with the new barina's crash test.

That wont make much difference. There have been dodgy unsafe Barinas with bad crash test results in the past and it hasnt affected sales much at all, not overall.

Originally Posted by blackout

I believe that new Camry and new Aurion are going to wipe the whole market clean personally..

No chance. Im assuming the Aurion is still front wheel drive? If so, no potential Holden or Ford driver is going to go to a large front drive car... if fuel prices are that bad, they will go for a small front drive car, I would have thought.

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Does the XT come with air standard? Or is it an option?

99.9999% sure that it is standard on the XT.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I have to say and I know I'm a Ford fan, however the BA launch was just so much better received.

Probably because the BA launch came after the AU disaster. The AU was not popular (rightly or wrongly, Im not going to comment) and hence the BA was seen to be that much of a step up from that, and it was seen to be the thing that was saving the sickly Fo Mo Co at the time. Particularly since the fleet sales from AUs were non existent and about to pick up big time. Also, the upgrade to Boss and Barra engines was quite a big thing.

Compared to the VE release, I dont think the engines are that much on the previous models, and same with popularity - the previous Commodores have all sold well anyway.

All in all, I think that not having air con in this day and age is ridiculous, and as others have said, especially in Aussie conditions! And the spare tyre? Is there a reason for that? Is there a problem with having full sized spares these days, especially as wheels are getting bigger and bigger with each model? Is there enough room to put them in the boot???

[vztrt]

I doubt there will be a new VE without A/C. The main reason they leave it as an option is because it's a great marketing tool when you get $3500 worth of extra's for free with the A/C costing $2000. But Holden were gonna put the thing in anyway so it's only $1500 worth of extras.
They've already started doing it with the Omega special edition.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by vztrt

This is from people in the know, same as the fact that I know Ford are worried. This isn't my friends mates dog info.

Your friends must have a chrystal ball because they're only just starting production and there are no cars on the road yet!!:hihi:
I'll reserve judgement on build std and quality till they're into full production and after its been in the market in use for 6 months...
I fully expect display cars to be perfect, just like display homes... the reality is they cant reproduce "display" quality on a fully functioning production line, time will tell.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Your friends must have a chrystal ball because they havent really built any cars yet!:hihi:
I'll reserve judgement on build std and quality till they're into full production and after its been in the market in use for 6 months...

No because the ones that were at the launch and the cars that have been tested were hand built. _
All production cars get built on the line, to iron out the bugs when the thing goes into full scale production. The operators dont get extra time to build it, they would get there 45-55 seconds to screw/lock/etc they're 3-5 items and the car would move on. Ok you would have the quality guys make sure the car is in it's best condition but there is only so much they can do.

[merlin]

Who cares about the space saver spare?????

I would rather save weight, and have extra boot space, than some big heavy full sized spare that I MIGHT use once every couple of years. :jab:

Yes all the county people (all 5 of them) will whinge about it but seriously if its such a concern they can pay the extra $100 for the full size spare - the majority of cars are bought by city people who dont need a full size spare (hell I dont even carry any spare, tyre repair kits are a wonderful thing : )

So over it.

/ENT RANT

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by vztrt

No because the ones that were at the launch and the cars that have been tested were hand built. _
All production cars get built on the line, to iron out the bugs when the thing goes into full scale production. The operators dont get extra time to build it, they would get there 45-55 seconds to screw/lock/etc they're 3-5 items and the car would move on. Ok you would have the quality guys make sure the car is in it's best condition but there is only so much they can do.

Yes, i understand, Hand built display cars are like Display homes....
The one you end up with never seems to be as good as the one on display...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes, i understand, Hand built display cars are like Display homes....
The one you end up with never seems to be as good as the one on display...

Yeah I'll agree with that it'll never be as good. But they've made a significant improvement from the VZ.