What do you think of the GST?

ImpulseTaco · 20-01-2006, 11:11 AM

So I was reading some stuff, and apparently the GST is a (relatively) new thing. What do you guys (gals) think of it? Is it more/less fair, easier/harder, etc? I was reading about some of the taxes it replaced, like the Bank Debits Tax and couldn't help but think the GST must at least be simpler. How about the overall effect? Are taxes more or less (proportionally speaking) then before the GST came about?

TheSneakiness · 20-01-2006, 11:12 AM

I don't wanna say what I've got to say, because it will breach TOC.

EF, What else? · 20-01-2006, 11:13 AM

it had made life easier for individuals, i think for businesses however it had become pretty complicated. But we are definetly being taxed more then before it was introduced :jab:

MITCHAY · 20-01-2006, 11:23 AM

If nothing else, it means those who didn't pay tax before, pay a little when they buy goods.

ImpulseTaco · 20-01-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUII_SE_Ute

I don't wanna say what I've got to say, because it will breach TOC.

I can't see anythign wrong as long as you don't use naughty language. I am asking for opinions.

ImpulseTaco · 20-01-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

If nothing else, it means those who didn't pay tax before, pay a little when they buy goods.

so that aspect of it makes it more fair?

EA2BA · 20-01-2006, 11:31 AM

everything was goning to get 'cheaper' ..... and pigs fly, things are not cheaper, i reckon they cost more.

Everyone voted in the govt knowing it would be brought in, then 99% of people complain about it, i diddnt vote it in thats for sure.

ImpulseTaco · 20-01-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EA2BA

everything was goning to get 'cheaper' ..... and pigs fly, things are not cheaper, i reckon they cost more.

Everyone voted in the govt knowing it would be brought in, then 99% of people complain about it, i diddnt vote it in thats for sure.

Come on now, you KNOW the govt always has your best interests at heart.

:

EvilChief · 20-01-2006, 11:54 AM

my question is: what do we get for paying GST?

ImpulseTaco · 20-01-2006, 12:04 PM

I would imagine the same thing you get for paying any taxes, more government, which votes to raise taxes, so that they can increase their size.

Its a viscious cycle.

deesun · 20-01-2006, 12:09 PM

The problem with these posts is that it turns into a party bashing affair,and depending on whose party you follow, mostly Liberal or Labour here in AU depends on who you bash. but generally speaking to the man in the street it made stuff all difference. To business though it made reporting your tax a lot more harder and more often though it is said that at least you can see how your business is doing more regular but someone else will differ. It meant that no matter what you buy you pay the same amount of tax on it with a few exceptions. General food items have no tax but some do and thats where it all becomes as clear as the Yarra River. Unlike the States where we here were used to seeing a price on a sign with a seperate line saying PLUS Tax all our prices were supposed to include the tax component. The government found squillions of extra businesses which weren't paying their fari share suddenly came and registered as they now needed to to get their tax component back. It was supposed to get rid of the cash economy overnight but it didn't really but it did lessen it considerably. Good or bad it's here to stay untill someone else decides otherwise. Did I get away with that?

Steve D · 20-01-2006, 12:29 PM

Got a bit of a raw deal in the sense that the GST was meant to replace state taxes, but in Victoria for example we still pay heaps of stamp duty when buying property (especially since real estate prices rocketed a few years ago and the duty rates stayed the same), and all the government is doing is updating title certificates, etc.

A bit of hoo-ha happened at the start as to the exemptions. Food is a classic as staples are exempt and other things are not. So bread is exempt, an iced bun is not. A frozen chicken is exempt, a pre-cooked BBQ chook is not (or is it?). Would have been simpler if everything was taxed.

Regardless of how it is collected, I think the main issue is how efficient the government is. Keeping things simple, running lean and mean is the best way to go, so that society can spend resources on stuff that makes a difference, not just beaurocrats who keep dreaming up more red tape.

It's like the story where the glazier pays a kid to break windows to gain more business. Good for the glazier, but the owner then has to spend money to merely repair a broken window when he really wanted to use it to build an entertaining area in the backyard. One leaves everything where it started, the other is a net gain.

CruizinEB · 20-01-2006, 12:30 PM

i dont want to get into this debate, i always get ИИИИ for having an opinion.

Yaw · 20-01-2006, 12:42 PM

My personal feeling are if a GST was implemented as it should have been and not how it is now it would have been a lot fairer and probably more productive than it is now.
By being properly introduced I mean ALL other taxes and excises should have been abosished and replaced with a flat percentage iregardless of the product or service. Some contetious issues are petrol, cigs, bread, fresh fruit and veg. They should not have allowed some items to escape and others have a different tax by calling it an excise. I understand why petrol and cigs have thier excises but it undermines a GST just as Fruit and veg and bread seem to be exempt from it.

jimt3te50 · 20-01-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EA2BA

Everyone voted in the govt knowing it would be brought in, then 99% of people complain about it, i diddnt vote it in thats for sure.

If you remember rightly, (and if I do too) Liberal won the election on the preferencial votes from the other parties- the actual votes for Labour were higher but the Libs ended up with more votes because of this system.

Most of Australia did not want the GST.

But it's here- it's still at 10% and it is not going away.........

jimt3te50 · 20-01-2006, 12:58 PM

for all you car (and truck lol) buyers you pay your stamp duties on the value of your vehicles including GST- tax on a tax.

Only the government could get away with it.....

(I sell trucks)

EA2BA · 20-01-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

If you remember rightly, (and if I do too) Liberal won the election on the preferencial votes from the other parties- the actual votes for Labour were higher but the Libs ended up with more votes because of this system.

Most of Australia did not want the GST.

But it's here- it's still at 10% and it is not going away.........

well if people dont look where the prefernece goes to, they deserve what they get.

CruizinEB · 20-01-2006, 01:07 PM

you have a tax on a tax for fuel to

EBII Fairmont · 20-01-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImpulseTaco

so that aspect of it makes it more fair?

The system of GST is not fair in Australia. The reason behind this is that every tax is ment to be abbolished and the GST is put in place. SO tell me how is it fair when smokes (I don't smoke so don't really care for this one), alcohol and petrol recieve an extra 10% tax including the tax it recieves from excise.

Australia could be a great place, but certain people within the hierarchy of it, don't make it like that.

ImpulseTaco · 20-01-2006, 01:20 PM

First off, I didn't really intend for this to be a debate, for an actual debate I would have to know one (or both) sides of the issue. Granted I do have my own personal feelings towards govt and taxes (less is better

) however I don't know either side of the issue in this case, hence I started this thread.

Unlike what jimt3te50 said, I thought the GST was supposed to replace alot of those types of taxes (stamp tax) The article I read made it seem like the GST was Oz's form of a sales tax, similar to what we have here in some states, like Texas.

What we don't have are the multiple taxes. When you buy a vehicle, you pay the 6.5% sales tax, but then you just pay registration and licensing fees (another form of tax i guess) and your good to go.

What about alcohol? Does that have an excise on it as well as GST?

Also, am I to understand that Labor is generally in favor of less taxes, while the Liberals? are in favor of increasing it?

rag top · 20-01-2006, 01:22 PM

I've heard it referred as the Get Shafted Tax....

jimt3te50 · 20-01-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EA2BA

well if people dont look where the prefernece goes to, they deserve what they get.

I'm not going to argue (to a point) but the system is complicated- If you didn't want either and voted democrats you actually end up giving your vote to the Libs-

the democrats prefernces ended up going to Libs because of the deal they struck regarding the absence of GST on unprepared or fresh food as they had argued with the increased costs Australians would be discouraged from eating healthy..........

The point is- Labour as a party got more votes than Liberals and the preferences swung it the other way.

You have to remember people generally follow the how to vote cards at the booth and have no idea- the amount of new inexperienced voters going to the polls is growing and there is not enough unbiased education out there.

Just my opinion, but I don't think it's fair to say people deserve what they get if they thought they were doing the right thing- people generally know what they want- they generally don't know what they want if they couldn't have that- and that's where the confusion comes in

Bucknaked · 20-01-2006, 02:00 PM

I draw the line at being charged GST for strippers. They are mean't to be taking stuff and not putting it back on

20-01-2006, 02:04 PM

Forget the GST it's a GT-P

EBII Fairmont · 20-01-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImpulseTaco

What about alcohol? Does that have an excise on it as well as GST?

Also, am I to understand that Labor is generally in favor of less taxes, while the Liberals? are in favor of increasing it?

Sorry didn't intend to make a huge fuss, but it annoys me, as GST is ment to be abolished when it was put in place. But like usual, our government has not pulled through for us. We pay for ciggarettes, alcohol and petrol what we used to with the old system, and they have added an extra 10% for GST purposes. I don't know how they can justify this.

But if done properly, it can turn out to be quit an effective system.

svo347 · 20-01-2006, 03:58 PM

well just look at our economy...
how far are we in the black now? I just wish it was handed back to us the tax payer.
from what ive read, exports are down and imports are up......

Des · 20-01-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaw

By being properly introduced I mean ALL other taxes and excises should have been abosished and replaced with a flat percentage iregardless of the product or service.

I'm of the same belief. If the Government abolished all taxes and then introduced a flat tax rate for all transactions that result in a transfer of funds for goods and/or services, then it would be fairer for all. The percentage of tax would be less than now as well. Then the Government would need to find another way to discourage new smokers.

ImpulseTaco · 20-01-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo347

well just look at our economy...
how far are we in the black now? I just wish it was handed back to us the tax payer.
from what ive read, exports are down and imports are up......

Understand, no disrespect intended, but I thought that was the nature of the Australian economy in general.

My understanding is that there isn't a huge amound of manufacturing in Oz. I know there are lots of vehicle imports, I would also imagine there is also lots of technological imports as well; computers and whatnot. As far as exports I thought it was mostly raw materials/natural resources; oil, uranium, salt?, and others.

Please correct me if any of this is in error.

svo347 · 20-01-2006, 04:36 PM

No offense taken mate...
the reason theres little manufacturing is because in todays society, its far more cheaper to manufacture items overseas than what it would be to do it here.
Why pay someone $15p/h when theres alot of people willing to do it for $5

ImpulseTaco · 20-01-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Des

I'm of the same belief. If the Government abolished all taxes and then introduced a flat tax rate for all transactions that result in a transfer of funds for goods and/or services, then it would be fairer for all. The percentage of tax would be less than now as well. Then the Government would need to find another way to discourage new smokers.

Thats what we're trying to push for here on the Federal level; a flat rate tax system. The problem (over here) is that a system like that does not give preferential treatment to lower income people (poor and welfare people). Personally, I'm all for it. I don't like taxes in general, but I think that if anyone should pay taxes it should be levied at the same rate for everyone.

There is also talk about eliminating federal income taxes and instead going with a national sales tax, which I would imagine would be quite similar to the GST if it were ever implemented. The problem, again, is that a tax of that nature doesn't give preferential treatment to some groups.