Government believes Holden gone 3-4 years.

[SS_01]

Not looking good!

http://www.caradvice.com.au/257959/h...isters-report/


Senior ministers reportedly believe Holden will end its manufacturing operations within three or four years regardless of whether the Federal Government offers it financial assistance for the future.

The Fairfax report says the ministers’ perceived view of Holden’s supposed planned exit has created divisions within the government, with some opposed to giving the embattled car maker further funding.

One minister reportedly revealed Holden is pushing the government for “in excess of $200 million” per year from 2015 after the expiry of the current funding agreement, flaming further resistance among economic decision-makers.

Holden today refused to comment on the report, offering only that it is “continuing talks with the government and won’t speculate on any deadlines or future production plans”.

holden-commdore-production

Comments from former industry minister Kim Carr flamed the fire yesterday, with the influential figure calling on the government to reach a co-investment deal with Holden before the release of the Productivity Commission’s preliminary report on December 20.

Carr said inactivity from the government before Holden parent company General Motors’ board meeting in Detroit next month could prove fatal for the local car maker.

“It may well be that as soon as the December meeting, a decision is taken to actually wind down manufacturing facilities in this country,” Carr said.

The decision of Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux to leave the company at the end of this year for a new role in China has also reportedly made some ministers sceptical of the car maker’s commitment to Australian manufacturing.

The news comes just hours after Toyota Australia announced that it is taking “urgent action” in seeking a variation of the terms and conditions of its workplace agreement in its attempts to cut $3800 from the cost of every car it builds to increase its global competitiveness and improve the long-term viability of its local operations.

Australian Manufacturing Workers’ Union assistant federal secretary David Smith told CarAdvice yesterday Toyota has expressed it would be tough for it to continue building cars in Australia if Holden ceased production, insisting that government support is the key to the industry’s future.

“We did speak to [Toyota] about what happens if Holden left. They’ve indicated that if that was the case they would probably find it very difficult to continue to operate in this country,” Smith said.

“But certainly they’ve made it quite clear that if there wasn’t government support available like there is in every other country in the world that has a vehicle manufacturing industry that would lead to the closure.”

[1TUFFUTE]

Nothing new here.....as soon as they let ford leave....it's all over. Giving money to the rest is a huge waste and massively hypocritical by letting ford go and then trying to all of a sudden try and support the car industry.

[EDManual]

what a disaster...

[stazza]

Oh for ****s sake. 3 to 4 more years of whinging and whining from them. Don't give them assistance and hopefully they will pull the plug sooner. They are like spoilt children.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by stazza

Oh for ****s sake. 3 to 4 more years of whinging and whining from them. Don't give them assistance and hopefully they will pull the plug sooner. They are like spoilt children.

I dont think so, If Holden are leaving at the end of 2016, we'll know within the next 6 months I think. Just like we know with Ford.

[Franco Cozzo]

Good christmas present.

You're all fired, merry christmas and have a fantastic holiday!

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Good christmas present.

You're all fired, merry christmas and have a fantastic holiday!

But hopefully they've all had a really good time with the taxpayers money.

What is the Australian taxpayer's bill for this "saga", when is enough enough?

FWIW, I read that a couple of days ago the USA debt has reach the theoretical point where every person in the USA now owes $1,000,000.

[dddd]

We have the second highest power cost in the world (seven years ago we had the second cheapest power cost in the world) and without a doubt one of the dearest labour cost in the world.

What the hell would you expect to happen, of course the industry is shot and yet you watch I wouldn't be surprised to see the unions still demanding better pay and conditions. They will ride this horse right to the grave and then blame everyone and everything else

I'm not saying labour and the unions (one and the same thing nowadays) are entirely to blame as I have no doubt that the high aussie dollar is what has just pushed it over the edge.

I'm just annoyed at the whole situation, as anyone with a small amount of business sense could see what was going to happen after all the changes the previous government made. Its been like watching a train wreck in slow motion the last five to six years

[BroadyFord]

Channel 10 just had a report which said that sources have told them that GM is "weeks away" from announcing Holden's closure and that it's all done and dusted - the most matter-of-fact report yet.

This will play into the hands of GM/Holden as they would now believe that the public has been fed enough information from the media regarding closure to the extent that when the actual announcement is made the impact will be blunted.

I'm officially calling it - announcement within 3-4 weeks.

[SS_01]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Channel 10 just had a report which said that sources have told them that GM is "weeks away" from announcing Holden's closure and that it's all done and dusted - the most matter-of-fact report yet.

This will play into the hands of GM/Holden as they would now believe that the public has been fed enough information from the media regarding closure to the extent that when the actual announcement is made the impact will be blunted.

I'm officially calling it - announcement within 3-4 weeks.

Im thinking they will drag it out until Feb 14 for the announcement.

[BroadyFord]

I really don't understand what the government is playing at. The way they're carrying on is as if they want the industry to shut down. Surely they are aware that December is the deadline and that their review will be totally pointless should Holden announce closure.

That or they have been given assurances from GMH that they will wait until next year pending the government's decision but seems unlikely.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by dddd

We have the second highest power cost in the world (seven years ago we had the second cheapest power cost in the world) and without a doubt one of the dearest labour cost in the world.

What the hell would you expect to happen, of course the industry is shot and yet you watch I wouldn't be surprised to see the unions still demanding better pay and conditions. They will ride this horse right to the grave and then blame everyone and everything else

I'm not saying labour and the unions (one and the same thing nowadays) are entirely to blame as I have no doubt that the high aussie dollar is what has just pushed it over the edge.

I'm just annoyed at the whole situation, as anyone with a small amount of business sense could see what was going to happen after all the changes the previous government made. Its been like watching a train wreck in slow motion the last five to six years

Can anyone tell me, with some degree of proof and authority on the subject, what caused the housing market to take off in Australia like it did and when? Answer this and I think you will see the genesis of wage, utilities and living costs spiraling out of control.

[superroo]

Really this is news.

Looking at who they have layed off recently was enough of a sign.

[P6LTD351]

Oh but when I posted about Mike Devereaux leaving, it was said by a few here that it meant nothing.

I feel sorry for the workers, but they have had the writing on the wall for a while now.

I'm not going to preface my posts about Holden closing with "I feel sorry for the workers" anymore - that's a given.

Holden. Goodbye. As a car manufacturer, you were never Australian - you just had the best marketing team out there that the Australian public fell for it. It's time to go back to coach building. You may even be able to assemble variants of the Mustang.

[stazza]

I would burn a Mustang if holden had anything to do with it.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

As car a manufacturer, you were never Australian .

Where else in the world could I buy a non-Australian built FX, EH, LX etc?

If you build a car here, hire Australian, sell to Australians...you're Australian...

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Where else in the world could I buy a non-Australian built FX, EH, LX etc?

If you build a car here, hire Australian, sell to Australians...you're Australian...

So where is the decision made on whether they pull out?

I never knew Detroit was part of Australia. I learn something new every day.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Where else in the world could I buy a non-Australian built FX, EH, LX etc?

If you build a car here, hire Australian, sell to Australians...you're Australian...

Also, all of those cars that you have listed needed to be approved by...you guessed it...Detroit.

GM bought Holden. The Holden that is Australian was a coach builder.

GM Holden is American. You can twist it any way you like. They are not Australian in any way. Lots of people work for companies that are not Australian, in Australia.

[UberKnee]

They had a great run. Regarded at the most Aussie of all the local manufacturers despite having the least amount of local input and parts, just raiding GMs parts bin every few years.

The writings been on the wall for a while though. Ford closing down and GMs constant demands for more and more money, its inevitable especially when you throw in Australia's high wages, materials, etc cost compared to the rest of the world

[UberKnee]

Double post.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Also, all of those cars that you have listed needed to be approved by...you guessed it...Detroit.

GM bought Holden. The Holden that is Australian was a coach builder.

GM Holden is American. You can twist it any way you like. They are not Australian in any way. Lots of people work for companies that are not Australian, in Australia.

But they were built here, by Aussies...that's a lot more then other companies that never even contemplating setting up shop here.


Ford, Holden Chrysler...we all hold them in regard as Australian at some point. 6pac charger, FJ, XA coupe....all products proudly Australian no matter where the money or go ahead came from.


As an Australian, i'm proud that we had such heritage, right from Geelong Model T's, the Australian six, right up to the modern day where the FG, Territory and Commodore are world class products designed and built right here.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"


The immature attitude of "good riddance", gloating about who was right and trying to undermine their efforts is a disgusting way to treat near 100 years of Australian auto manufactures...


Its not happy times indead.


We'll sell our dirt, while wherehouses lay desert...Till there is no more coal to burn, our pollies never learn...

[roberts]

the Big Mac is built here by australians
Holden is australian as much as mcdonalds is australian

[EDManual]

Why doesn't the govt here just print trillions of dollars? Might bring the dollar back to 50c and can pay for anything and everything.

[aussie muscle]

Holden will take the money from the government, then close down. mark my words.

[5tumpy]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Why doesn't the govt here just print trillions of dollars? Might bring the dollar back to 50c and can pay for anything and everything.

LOL... Have a look at how that worked out for Zimbabwe...

[Express]

Originally Posted by roberts

the Big Mac is built here by australians
Holden is australian as much as mcdonalds is australian

Most McDonalds outlets here are franchises owned by Australians.


Very sad , local industry just goes from worse to worse.


.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Where else in the world could I buy a non-Australian built FX, EH, LX etc?

If you build a car here, hire Australian, sell to Australians...you're Australian...

Don't forget the thousands of local companies that are in work here supplying car parts. The actual plant supports a bare fraction. And when only 30% of the car is from local suppliers....that's when you really wonder.....why bother. May aswell call it Chinese, if thats where the most parts come from.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by 5tumpy

LOL... Have a look at how that worked out for Zimbabwe...

And Germany prior to Hitler

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Can anyone tell me, with some degree of proof and authority on the subject, what caused the housing market to take off in Australia like it did and when? Answer this and I think you will see the genesis of wage, utilities and living costs spiraling out of control.

Low interest rates have fueled the housing boom. Fact is according to my bank manager who i've known for over 30 years, families will generally borrow close too as much as the bank lets them to fund the best lifestyle they can afford, people rightly or wrongly think they deserve it !!

According to my passport I arrived for a 3 week holiday in Perth on 24 March 1988. On that holiday I observed that I could buy a good 4 bedroom house with a swimming pool in Perth's outer suburbs for $40,000.
I understand, 25 years later we are now talking about prices at least 1500%, (that's 15 times !!) that price. No wonder people want to be paid well.

Or more recently in 2003, if you prefer a more recent frame of reference we had a family holiday on the Gold coast and had a look at a fantastic 4 bedroom double brick house with pool backing on to a golf course near the Robina Town Centre for $189K. Is that about $1m now ?

Its no better in N.Z. You'll need at least $750,000 for a decent house in a reasonable suburb in Auckland.

Fact is Australians enjoy very close to the best living standards in the world and its too dear to manufacture cars in Australia with Australian wage level's, simple as that.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Can anyone tell me, with some degree of proof and authority on the subject, what caused the housing market to take off in Australia like it did and when? Answer this and I think you will see the genesis of wage, utilities and living costs spiraling out of control.

Just like Rodge has pointed out, low interest rates have caused the jump in the housing market. The more important question to ask is why are the interest rates at all time lows. The only reason why the RBA drops rates is because the economy is in trouble and needs help. The fact that they are this low should tell you something about the state of the economy.
Yes, we still have jobs at the moment, but that's due mostly to the Federal Government pumping money into the system i.e. look at our deficit nowadays and then compare that to just six years ago when the economy was running quite happily largely without any stimulus at all.

I will give you a simple analogy. Let's say you own a hairdressing salon and you want the books to start looking healthy. You decide to go to the bank and borrow $100k to put into your business. You then sit out the front of your business and hand out $20 to everyone who will go in and get a $25 hair cut. All of a sudden business takes off to the point where you have to put on more staff, they believe things are going so well they all demand pay rises, all the employees think you're a genius
Now a few questions
(A) Do you think the employees give a damn about the $100k loan you have on the business?
(B) What happens when the $100k runs out and you can't sit out the front of the shop offering people $20 notes?
(C) What happens when your now stagnant business has to start paying interest on that $100k debt on top of your normal running cost ??



The simple fact is the current work place regulations we have today, put in by the Rudd/Gillard Government, do not allow our industry to be as competitive as the regulations we had under Howard (and yes I do realise we generally have better pay and conditions because of these new regulations, but I believe we will ultimately pay dearly for them) Secondly, all the green/renewable energy schemes brought in by Rudd, combined with the Carbon Tax, have sent power costs alarmingly high.

These two points alone are why our industry is needing so much stimulus to survive. We have to remember that Australian industry only ever had one advantage over other countries and that was cheap power, which is now gone.