TopGear end of series twenty makes me sad.

[Buntz]

The last episode was a tribute to all things automotive and manufactured in Britain. All these great things that they are proud of making (including body work to some G6E Falcon's). The British Government seems to be encouraging vehicle manufacturing, and it's increasing.

Now while this is a great thing... it makes me sad that we aren't doing anything to keep our vehicle manufactures here. Or even any manufacturing here. We are quite content to let it go, and the the tax payer even hates the very thought of his money investing in it. How tragic is that? When such a great thing is derided.

I guess if we don't want it... we don't deserve it, and we can specialise in administration and management of local branches of foreign companies.... that only sell us stuff.

[zilo]

I shiver every time I think of working on the Landrover.

Biggest piece of S ***ever made, yes it's British engineering at its finest...no thanks.

[Agile]

Unfortunately , 90 % of Australians are stupid or dont give a ****. Good luck.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by Buntz

The last episode was a tribute to all things automotive and manufactured in Britain. All these great things that they are proud of making (including body work to some G6E Falcon's). The British Government seems to be encouraging vehicle manufacturing, and it's increasing.

Now while this is a great thing... it makes me sad that we aren't doing anything to keep our vehicle manufactures here. Or even any manufacturing here. We are quite content to let it go, and the the tax payer even hates the very thought of his money investing in it. How tragic is that? When such a great thing is derided.

I guess if we don't want it... we don't deserve it, and we can specialise in administration and management of local branches of foreign companies.... that only sell us stuff.

it's funny isn't it its looked at that it's not really a loss if they go because they aren't Australian owned yet we gladly buy imported crap. Then whinge about build quality then buy cheap chinese junk off ebay or great wall POS' and the like

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Agile

Unfortunately , 90 % of Australians are stupid or dont give a ****. Good luck.

This is sadly very true. The usual stalwarts will bleat how Australians are smart and make educated choices. The truth is, we're not. Badge snobbery is indicative of it, as is the ridiculous level of personal debt we carry.

[CyberWasp]

The other thing people don't realise is that if there is ever another world conflict we will need our own manufacturing plants.
You would be surprised what came out of the Ford Manufacturing plants here in Oz during WW2 for example.
The road we are going down we have to import our own food even.
One day we might get a politician that puts this country first.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

The other thing people don't realise is that if there is ever another world conflict we will need our own manufacturing plants.
You would be surprised what came out of the Ford Manufacturing plants here in Oz during WW2 for example.
The road we are going down we have to import our own food even.
One day we might get a politician that puts this country first.

Good point but I would imagine that today's missile technology would easily take out any manufacturing plants...

[79FordEsky]

I was watching the episode last night on the computer and I was telling my brother that someone should make the exact same ending but for Australia and realise that Australian manufacturing is strong and needs the support of the public to grow, we need more Australians to invest and support local jobs and local workmanship. We grew from manufacturing, we have some of the best scientist, engineers etc but we do not have the support from the government and the public to help boost it.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by 79FordEsky

I was watching the episode last night on the computer and I was telling my brother that someone should make the exact same ending but for Australia and realise that Australian manufacturing is strong and needs the support of the public to grow, we need more Australians to invest and support local jobs and local workmanship. We grew from manufacturing, we have some of the best scientist, engineers etc but we do not have the support from the government and the public to help boost it.

I think that's a brilliant idea. But who would do it? And how?

And in terms of government support. All this bad news keeps coming from the media, and the government isn't doing anything to stop it. It really is like witnessing a slow motion disaster, with time to stop it.... but the people that can, won't.

Originally Posted by Agile

Unfortunately , 90 % of Australians are stupid or dont give a ****. Good luck.

I think it goes hand-in-hand. If they don't care what happens to goods this country manufactures, then it will effect their future. We're having our hands tied by the ignorant majority. How frustrating?

In terms of cars, we make world class vehicles. But you can't drive a Falcon or Commodore because you'd be a bogan if you did. Unfortunately car manufacturers now see Australia as not worth the effort because they get no support, but this is true of just about all sectors now, as automotive was the leading edge.

[Buntz]

Just found this on carsales.. not sure if it's been posted, but it is quite apt:

Who killed the Ford Falcon? In short, it was YOU...

You – who wanted a high driving position... and paid more for an SUV that grazes its floorpan entering a driveway.

You – who didn't want to buy a 'thirsty' six-cylinder... so you bought a small SUV instead, with 'economical' permanent four-wheel drive, petrol engine and auto transmission.

You – who wanted to downsize to a small or mid-size sedan for the daily commute... only to find it won't tow ski boats or accommodate the whole family at weekends.

You – who really wanted something that delivered cutting edge style... and settled for a Taurus*.

You – who was put-off by the lack of a diesel option... and ignored the EcoLPI option and the EcoBoost alternative.

You – who wanted better resale... and then paid through the nose to have your volume-selling European sedan serviced.

You – who couldn't be seen in a taxi... and bought a Prius.

You – who complained about Australian build quality... and bought a Cruze.

You – who didn't want to be tagged as a bogan... so you bought a dual-cab one-tonner with a bull bar.

You – who boasted about buying Australian... but failed to find out your SUV was built in Korea.

You – who lamented the death of the local V8 sedan... and then didn't buy it when it returned.

You – who preached Australia needs a vibrant local auto industry... and then made Mazda3 the most popular car in the country.

You – who screamed black and blue about a third brand entering V8 Supercars... but you haven't bought a locally-built new car in the past 20 years.

But don't feel guilty, you're one of about a million new-car buyers every year who chose to buy something other than the locally-built large car. And, to start another sentence with a conjunction, it wasn't just you, the general public that ended the Falcon's long run. It wouldn't have happened without the assistance of you, the government bureaucrats; you, the Ford Australia management team; you, at GM-Holden... and us, in the specialist media.


* Yeah, okay, you got us; few actually bought the Taurus.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2013...intref=ed-news

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by 79FordEsky

I was watching the episode last night on the computer and I was telling my brother that someone should make the exact same ending but for Australia and realise that Australian manufacturing is strong and needs the support of the public to grow, we need more Australians to invest and support local jobs and local workmanship. We grew from manufacturing, we have some of the best scientist, engineers etc but we do not have the support from the government and the public to help boost it.

This was attempted in the last episode of Top Gear Aus (Season 1) back in 2008... unfortunately, when people don't have the money to buy big Aussie cars, no amount of National pride will make any difference.

[79FordEsky]

But still its good to point out what we have in this great country and what we are producing so people can stop thinking on the negative side, the Australian media has to start recognizing that we are producing great things. If we do not have support we are going to down the drain hole and have not economic benefits besides the resources but they will not last long as its only a short term financial benefit.

[lamborghinifan]

brilliant close to a season, patriotism shown that could be barely be mustered in this country...

[Wretched]

It was a great ending to the episode, though you could see it coming considering all the cars featured were British.

Now to compare AU with GB is difficult, we have less population that are far more spread out across a vast area. We're now in a globalisation era where we're not exactly close to potential export markets. GB has the whole of Europe on its door step.
Secondly as you would have seen their manufacturers actually have an export strategy, our car makers (besides Toyota) have none. Holden with its US deal is a good as it is going to be for now.
Who's to blame there? Which leads on to my next point, there can only be a certain amount of people willing (or able) to buy tractors, Rolls Royce, Bentleys, Trucks, etc hence the requirement for an export strategy. In this day and age you cannot have one market (or a small product range). The cars that are British have the heritage, the prestige that has been going on for generations. Something we can't compete with.
Then with our lack of global motorsport involvement it makes it difficult to really contribute with manufacturing and R&D into exotic materials and technology. Our companies need to promote themselves as being able to compete with these established technology companies overseas. You just have to look at our top motorsport category vs that of Europe or the US, not exactly promoting advances in automotive engineering.

We don't know their other manufacturing numbers i.e. carpentry, food, textiles etc. We don't know how good or bad they are compared to us.
Now to get people to buy Australian made there needs to be more effort than a simple sticker on a product. The advantages over imported stuff needs to be shown, how is buying the local better, is the product better, etc?
Then we also need to be more competitive. I am willing to buy Australian made but it needs to be priced reasonably (ok i forked out a far amount of a Tasmanian Oak dining table) and not over priced to play on the AU made.

We're not stupid people, we're renowned for break throughs in the medical field, sciences (via the CSIRO, Universities and other such organisations), Information Technology and at times specialist R&D such as that of the submarine used by James Cameron. We just need more government support to stop our discoveries sent overseas. I have posted this previously that we have the skills and brains just not the policies or the at times the right companies behind it (Ford, GM).

Want to see what we can do?
http://www.csiro.au/promos/ozadvances/
http://australia.gov.au/about-austra...stn-inventions

[FTE]

Originally Posted by Buntz

Just found this on carsales.. not sure if it's been posted, but it is quite apt:



http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2013...intref=ed-news

What that didn't highlight was the media's influence (well a tiny part at the end). They had been killing off the Falcon since the EB, it's almost like they enjoyed the idea of the Falcon and Commodore failing.

I know a lot of people don't buy or like MOTOR or WHEELS magazine on this Forum but I buy it coz I like articles on the local cars with V8's and FPV range. But the media have mentioned the death of local cars for 20 years and once it does happen I will no longer have the need to buy their magazine. So if others buy it for the same reason as me, then maybe WHEELS and MOTOR will be next on the chopping block!
I bet they didn't think of that!

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by Bent8

This was attempted in the last episode of Top Gear Aus (Season 1) back in 2008... unfortunately, when people don't have the money to buy big Aussie cars, no amount of National pride will make any difference.

people pay more for light SUV's and dual cab utes, this statement is a little redundant isn't it? the prices on big Aussie cars haven't gone up in 13 years and fuel economy is on par with half the cars people are buying instead of these too

[xr6turboford]

Originally Posted by Agile

Unfortunately , 90 % of Australians are stupid or dont give a ****. Good luck.

Please enlighten me on what you mean by this statement because I would hate to think I was stupid because a chose a foreign car over a Australian car

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by xr6turboford

Please enlighten me on what you mean by this statement because I would hate to think I was stupid because a chose a foreign car over a Australian car

Agreed. And most that say it havnt even purchased a new car of any sort.

[kaniSS]

Originally Posted by lamborghinifan

brilliant close to a season, patriotism shown that could be barely be mustered in this country...

Couldn't agree more. Our Patriotism in this country barely exists. Accept on Australia day when we drink 5 cases and take our shirts off.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

people pay more for light SUV's and dual cab utes, this statement is a little redundant isn't it? the prices on big Aussie cars haven't gone up in 13 years and fuel economy is on par with half the cars people are buying instead of these too

I don't think there are any SUV's in the top 10 V-facts, lot's of utes though...

And yes, maybe the price of a base model Falcon hasn't gone up much in the past decade but I'll tell you this, the cost of everything else has and this is what drives people away.

Just finished watching the last episode of Top Gear, full of British pride and good on them for having a large automotive industry but they should also remember that globalization makes nationalism meaningless today.

[MrMaestro]

People hear about the government giving hundreds of millions of dollars to the car makers and point to the big, out-of-favour, sub-Japanese quality cars they turn out and ask 'what's the point?' The thing is, the government isn't providing the money in order to keep a few thousand unskilled labourers at work, they're doing it because of the high-tech that goes into the component and R&D side of things.

It's not just unskilled people who are going to lose their jobs (and I don't mean to make light of those workers, I'm just making a point), there are going to be a lot of highly-skilled engineers at the local car and component manufacturers who are going to be out of a job too. Australian manufacturing can't compete on cost, that much is obvious, so we have to develop high-quality products that everybody wants and no one else can make. We aren't going to develop them if we lose the the behind-the-scenes depth of high-tech.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by MrMaestro

People hear about the government giving hundreds of millions of dollars to the car makers and point to the big, out-of-favour, sub-Japanese quality cars they turn out and ask 'what's the point?' The thing is, the government isn't providing the money in order to keep a few thousand unskilled labourers at work, they're doing it because of the high-tech that goes into the component and R&D side of things.

It's not just unskilled people who are going to lose their jobs (and I don't mean to make light of those workers, I'm just making a point), there are going to be a lot of highly-skilled engineers at the local car and component manufacturers who are going to be out of a job too. Australian manufacturing can't compete on cost, that much is obvious, so we have to develop high-quality products that everybody wants and no one else can make. We aren't going to develop them if we lose the the behind-the-scenes depth of high-tech.

I have to commend you for a very good post, but I am of the opinion that govco here does not care in the slightest about retaining our engineering skill base or a manufacturing industry. Their efforts are tokenism at best. If they were serious about creating the sort of environment where high value manufacturing would work, they would create the conditions conducive to such an environment forming.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

This is sadly very true. The usual stalwarts will bleat how Australians are smart and make educated choices. The truth is, we're not. Badge snobbery is indicative of it, as is the ridiculous level of personal debt we carry.

So...everyone should buy Falcons and Commodores "just because", and ignore what the world is offering? Or should we just shut the borders to all imports and go to a two car market place? Because remember, most of what Ford and Holden sell here is made overseas. Restrict the publics choice to two cars just because they're made here?

People are better educated about vehicle choices, better than ever before because of the internet. You can sit in your home and pick and choose and read dozens of reviews of everything on the market.

It's not the publics fault that times have changed, and large sedans are on the wane...you can't force the public to buy cars it simply doesn't want anymore in sustainable numbers.
It is the factories fault for not reading the way the wind was blowing and change to suit. Ford has made the big decision and canned a slow selling unpopular car, and should be applauded for that.
So there won't be Falcons anymore...big deal. There will still be a dealer network, they will still sell plenty of cars, they just won't sell a dwindling number of one particular model.

Harsh reality can be a ***** sometimes...

[Trump]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

So...everyone should buy Falcons and Commodores "just because", and ignore what the world is offering? Or should we just shut the borders to all imports and go to a two car market place? Because remember, most of what Ford and Holden sell here is made overseas. Restrict the publics choice to two cars just because they're made here?

People are better educated about vehicle choices, better than ever before because of the internet. You can sit in your home and pick and choose and read dozens of reviews of everything on the market.

It's not the publics fault that times have changed, and large sedans are on the wane...you can't force the public to buy cars it simply doesn't want anymore in sustainable numbers.
It is the factories fault for not reading the way the wind was blowing and change to suit. Ford has made the big decision and canned a slow selling unpopular car, and should be applauded for that.
So there won't be Falcons anymore...big deal. There will still be a dealer network, they will still sell plenty of cars, they just won't sell a dwindling number of one particular model.

Harsh reality can be a ***** sometimes...

I was speaking in generalities, not specifically about the choices Australians make when buying cars.

I totally agree with you, Falcon and Commodore aren't for every Tom, Dick and Harry, they never were. There are many families with more than three or four kids and a Falcadore won't cut it. There are people that need their vehicles to have off road ability, Falcadore won't cut it. Where I draw the distinction however is when day in day out, I see people make purchasing decisions on one factor alone: badge appeal. Don't get me wrong, people are free to do whatever they want when it comes to spending their own coin, but when one makes their own vanity the number one criteria when buying a car, it saddens me.

As an anecdote, I have an FG XR6T. For me, it was the best choice for my day to day driving (in no particular order): big boot for my tools, good handling, good braking, enough mod cons inside, plenty of power/torque, reasonable fuel economy considering said colossal power and torque, good purchase price and cheap maintenance. Nothing from Europe or Japan came even close to fulfill those requirements. However, I also have a Landcruiser for when I rough it in the hills along the various 4WD tracks around here. To wit, a couple of weekends ago, I rolled up to Mt Disappointment north of Melbourne, when we came across a bogged BMW X5. The poor bastard didn't have a hope in hell of getting out, ended up winching the thing out of what was a rather insubstantial boghole, but more than enough to render the soft roader useless. A few weeks before that, it was a muppet in a Territory.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

It's not the publics fault that times have changed, and large sedans are on the wane...you can't force the public to buy cars it simply doesn't want anymore in sustainable numbers.
It is the factories fault for not reading the way the wind was blowing and change to suit. Ford has made the big decision and canned a slow selling unpopular car, and should be applauded for that.
So there won't be Falcons anymore...big deal. There will still be a dealer network, they will still sell plenty of cars, they just won't sell a dwindling number of one particular model.

Harsh reality can be a ***** sometimes...

Ford made the big decision not to just end the Falcon but to end Australian ford manufacturing altogether.

That's the thicker end of the wedge.

[chevypower]

The only way the Falcon would have survived would be as a global car. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did without a real export program. You can't force people to limit their choices to two cars. You just have to make them appealing and available to as many people in the world as you can.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by chevypower

The only way the Falcon would have survived would be as a global car. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did without a real export program. You can't force people to limit their choices to two cars. You just have to make them appealing and available to as many people in the world as you can.

That's true. Of course... we do make more than just the Falcon and Commodore, there's the cruze, the Camry, and whatever else Toyota makes.

But more people may be inclined to choose them through tax breaks and other initiatives.

GM have tried to make the Commodore exportable. And the latest one is probably the most exportable. We the people still need to make a concerted effort to buy Australian where possible, and the Government needs to give these cars as much support as they need, or we just won't make any cars anymore.

[UberKnee]

Local Manufacturing clung desperately to the wrong segment of the market though. Holden and Ford Aus persist in focusing 99% of their attention on large sedans that nobody buys anymore. Shifting when the market shifted would see things better off right now. Then again Toyota build the right cars in Australia yet they barely break even on local manufacturing/selling.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Local Manufacturing clung desperately to the wrong segment of the market though. Holden and Ford Aus persist in focusing 99% of their attention on large sedans that nobody buys anymore. Shifting when the market shifted would see things better off right now. Then again Toyota build the right cars in Australia yet they barely break even on local manufacturing/selling.

I agree that large cars aren't as popular anymore and that is a problem when you only manufacture large cars. But would they selling poorly if the Government had let car sales get out of hand by having the most brands and models of any developed nation with comparatively small annual sales? We will never know.

[UberKnee]

Australia isn't as flooded as people want it to be to explain Ford and Holdens dwindling sales.

Even a small number of manufacturers, if Holden/Ford continued to put all their attention on Falcadores and the other manufacturers imported more SUVs, dual cab 4x4s, and small cars the public would still go towards those imports because they fit the needs of the modern family, and modern commuter more than a too big for some, too small for the rest Aussie 4 door.