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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,336
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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226492352854
YOU know if 80 per cent of people are disobeying a law, it's probably the law that needs fixing rather than the people. But in these illiberal times, we ramp up the punishment. So when a Macquarie University study this month found that 70 to 80 per cent of drivers break the 40km/h speed limit when entering school zones, the usual call went up for more speed cameras and tougher fines. This is the solution to every road safety issue from the robotic RTA now uselessly rebadged as Roads and Maritime Services. But tomorrow a former RTA engineer will spill the beans on the failed logic and wasted money behind the state's War on Speed which has had negligible impact on safety, and may in fact provoke a psychological backlash among motorists. Lex Stewart, RTA road safety manager between 1990 and 1997, will tell the Australian Institute of Traffic and Planning conference at Luna Park that better road safety comes from "flowing with" rather than going against "innate human psychology". He says the number of road deaths has barely budged over the past decade as ever more drastic penalties have been enforced on motorists. School speed zones are an example of a kneejerk reaction to a non problem that has diverted resources from more pressing safety issues. "All this huge money spent (on school zones) has had very small benefit because there never were any significant numbers of children killed or injured near schools in the first place," he said. He counters the argument that any price is worth saving a life by saying that if money is diverted from programs that could save 50 lives, "all that we have achieved is to kill 49 people". Five police highway patrol officers he interviewed for his paper complained that school zones were being "forced" on them and were difficult to enforce, diverting police attention away from more pressing issues such as bike helmets. Stewart advocates scrapping all 40km/h school speed zones and instead employing more school crossing supervisors trained as special constables with the power to enforce 50 or 60km/h limits. "They can also talk to children, educating them in road safety, something that cameras cannot do." He said Australian authorities were "unusually obsessed" with speeding, at the risk of underemphasising the dangers of drunk driving or driving without a seatbelt. Speed cameras were "purely punitive, not educational" he said. "We need to ask those obsessed with speed cameras why Germany, with no speed limit at all on its autobahns, has a fatality rate of 0.7, which is substantially better than NSW's 0.9 and Australia's 0.8." The NSW Auditor-General's report into speed cameras last year was a "damning indictment of RTA incompetence and arrogance". The report found 70 per cent of submissions viewed cameras as revenue raisers, and only 28 per cent of cameras produced statistically significant improvements in road safety." "It is far more effective to use roving highway patrol officers." When he was in charge of road safety in 90 per cent of the state west of Lithgow, Stewart wanted every motorist to see a blue flashing light on their travels. He told police in his patch that if a driver is travelling at 112km/h in a 110 zone you pull him over, and "have a chat", about the inadvisability of breaking the speed limit, the hazards of fatigue and the whereabouts of the closest rest stop is. Then you send him on his way without a ticket. This way the community is involved in taking responsibility for driving safely. While politicians and bureaucrats "piously" rail against speeding, claiming it is the No.1 road safety problem, "there is little hard data to back them up", he said. By contrast, the data on drink driving is accurate, since blood samples are taken from people involved in a crash, and tell us that alcohol is involved in 21 per cent of road deaths and 19 per cent of crashes. Similarly, failure to wear a seatbelt (or a helmet) resulted in 12 per cent of deaths. But the official line that "up to 40 per cent" of crashes are caused by excessive speed is a guess, Stewart said, based on insufficient scientific evidence, flawed data and inadequate police accident reports. Stewart is all for bringing down speeds where appropriate, such as in residential areas where reducing the speed limit from 60 to 50km/h means less damage if a car hits a bike or pedestrian. But the blanket assault on speed is absurd: "Why not make all speed limits 10km/h?" Stewart is not just a critic. He has a lot of worthwhile solutions, including the introduction of a fairer "merit" scheme of 100 points, and speeding fines scaled more logically. He advocates removing 90 per cent of speed cameras and putting the money into more highway patrol officers, encouraged to have frequent interactions with drivers in an educational/warning role. One officer plus car costs about $200,000. If he books four people per shift then the fines reap the state $200,000. They are "close to being self-funding". he said. "Why the reluctance to employ more?" He would also erect lots more speed limit "reassurance" signs so drivers know how fast they can go, increase driver education and require new cars to have black box recorders so the role of speed, fatigue and so on can be assessed. Stewart's ideas, backed by his experience at the front line, are well worth heeding. But Roads Minister Duncan Gay, who will open the conference this morning, did not respond to Stewart's offer to view his paper. Gay went into office a champion of motorists, opposed to punitive fines and cameras. But like every minister before him, he is now captured by his department and addicted to the revenue. |
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#2 | |||
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 20,335
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Quote:
It has gone too far for too long now, and the powers that be are less interested in societies welfare anymore if it doesnt mean some form of cash in.
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"the greatest trick the devil pulled, is convincing the world he doesn't exist" 2022 Mazda CX5 GTSP Turbo 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Highlander 1967 XR FALCON 500 Cars previously owned: 2021 Subaru Outback Sport 2018 Subaru XV-S 2012 Subaru Forester X 2007 Subaru Liberty GT 2001 AU2 75th Anniversary Futura 2001 Subaru GX wagon 1991 EB XR8 1977 XC Fairmont 1990 EA S Pak 1984 XE S Pak 1982 ZJ Fairlane 1983 XE Fairmont 1989 EA Falcon 1984 Datsun Bluebird Wagon 1975 Honda Civic |
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,119
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Also ive heard (From a very reliable source) that open speed limits will be reintroduced in the N.T in a few months due to the higher road toll. Speed wasnt the factor but fatigue!!
Will this show that speed doesnt kill in most cases and contradict what Victoria (and other states) have been ramming down our throats since radars and cameras were introduced... Last edited by joolz; 16-10-2012 at 09:58 PM. |
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#4 | |||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
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#5 | |||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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Real Aussie muscle cars have a clutch!! http://www.roadsense.com.au/about.html |
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#6 | |||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
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Real Aussie muscle cars have a clutch!! http://www.roadsense.com.au/about.html |
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,412
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The Governments no matter which state will not raise speed limits or cut the number of speed cameras.
When It gets to the point that it is now that they actually budget (and increase each year) speed camera revenue we have gone past the point of no return. they just rely on the revenue to much to try and balance budgets. |
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#8 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,097
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It never was about safety, its about $$$.
Its cheaper to pretend to fix the problems, have a few dead people and sell lies rather than educate people. The whole system needs an overhaul, from me to the governor general. Unfortunately it seems no one has anyone elses best interests in mind. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 16-10-2012 at 11:00 PM. |
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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interesting article, looks on the money for my 2 bobs worth, camera`s do zero for those that don`t speed(or don`t speed near camera`s) but still drive like ratbags,
and absolutely no incentive for the people that drive like erratic scum bags to change their behavior if they only have camera`s to police them. it`s sorta funny to me that often the Authorities always say it`s speed that is the problem, ............. to me more often than not the speed that kills is the result of driving in a manner dangerous of which speed is the end result, and again more often than not the the guys cruising on a run 10/15 k`s over the limit on the highway in a smooth calm courteous manner is the one that A. does`nt crash B. gets pinged by a camera it`s usually the as my step father would call them "the tearasses" that make a career out of erratic speeding that know where the camera`s are and rarely get booked until it`s too late, having officers pull people over give them some education and a warning and chance to change their behavior does`nt put many bikky`s in the states bank, so it continues . |
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#10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Politicians and law makers feel the need to do something, so the easiest solution is to make a law.
The much harder thing is to educate people to drive in a safe manner. And for the record, who's damned planning idea was it to put nearly every friggin' school on a main thoroughfare? Surly having schools on a quiet side street away from main roads would be much safer in the first place. |
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#11 | |||
Miami Pilot
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 21,701
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Quote:
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The Hammer: FG GTE | 376rwkw | 1/4 mile 11.793 @ 119.75mph 1.733 60' (4408lb) 1 of 60 FG MK1 335 GTEs (1 of 118 FG Mk 1 & 2 335 GTEs). Mods: Tune, HSD/ShockWorks, black GT335 19” staggered replicas with 245 & 275/35/19 Michelin Pilot sport 5s Daily: BF2 Fairmont Ghia I6 ZF, machine face GT335 19” staggered Replicas with 245s and 275s, Bilsteins & Kings FPV 335 build stats: <click here> Ford Performance Club ACT |
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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Put more money into mental disease and depression. Suicide is a much bigger killer than road accidents.
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#13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tumut
Posts: 1,632
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Speed cameras were "purely punitive, not educational" he said. "We need to ask those obsessed with speed cameras why Germany, with no speed limit at all on its autobahns, has a fatality rate of 0.7, which is substantially better than NSW's 0.9 and Australia's 0.8."
Needs to get his facts correct if he wants people to take his seriously. There are quite a few sections of the autobarn with speed limits and if you want to get technical the autobarn actually has a speed limit of 350kph |
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,312
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My ride: 2007 Falcon Ute BF XR8 Orange, MTO. |
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#15 | |||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
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I'll have to make sure I don't exceed that then... ![]() |
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#16 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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yea right, most of our freeways are actually built for far higher speeds than they allow whats so special about NT roads
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Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
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#17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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most NSW freeways are like that with nothing close to the edge of the road to hit and good wide roadways
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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I always love the dramatic headlines that say on highway X over the weekend they booked "1500 speeding motorists" or something.
The interesting thing would be to find out how many accidents there were on that same stretch of road over the same time period. If none or no more than usual, then shouldn't the limit be reviewed?That is what common sense would say anyhow... However, speed limits always go down...they never go up. Around Bundabrg you used to be able to do 100kph down to all the beaches, but now it's 80kph after a couple of "shocking" accidents. One was three drunk girls at 2am in a car that left the road and hit a light pole. The second was on Elliot Heads road near a school, when a woman pulled out of a side road straight in front of traffic and got killed. There was an emotive push in the local paper with headlines like "Don't let our mummy die in vain", and similar sentimental stuff. The police and Transport Department report said it was completely driver error, the road was good, visibility was fine, the speed limit was appropriate, she did the wrong thing, sorry. However the council dropped the limit to 80kph anyway. Down near Gympie there is now a looooooong stretch of highway one which is 90kph with no overtaking allowed, because of several accidents on what was a good stretch of road...usually idiots pulling out in front of highway traffic or in one case overtaking a semi in the pouring rain. Now you drive down there dawdling along, dictated to by the car up the front of the line and what speed he wishes to do. I travelled for twenty kilometers of that road or more at 70kph in a line of maybe 2km of cars, and when we finally overtook when the restricted area ended and the four lane highway began, I was amazed that the car which had been holding us all up was a new Audi A6 who had decided 70kph was a suitable speed. He kept doing the same speed on the 110kph divided four lane too. Guess which lane he was sitting in... |
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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#21 | ||
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 20,335
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I dont think the speed limit is the question here, it's the claims of saving lives with the use of speed detecting devices. When I see a physical camera actually save a life of a motorist in an accident, then I will become a believer. Till then, proper driver education & police presence will still be my answer instead of instilling wallet thrashing fear into road users. The latter does not change a persons driving habit, it makes them more scared of losing money than the importance of the safety of other road users. We need people to look at the correct motive to change their ways, not the financial one. The financial one only benefits 1 party, and that is not the road users.
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"the greatest trick the devil pulled, is convincing the world he doesn't exist" 2022 Mazda CX5 GTSP Turbo 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Highlander 1967 XR FALCON 500 Cars previously owned: 2021 Subaru Outback Sport 2018 Subaru XV-S 2012 Subaru Forester X 2007 Subaru Liberty GT 2001 AU2 75th Anniversary Futura 2001 Subaru GX wagon 1991 EB XR8 1977 XC Fairmont 1990 EA S Pak 1984 XE S Pak 1982 ZJ Fairlane 1983 XE Fairmont 1989 EA Falcon 1984 Datsun Bluebird Wagon 1975 Honda Civic |
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#22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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magnificently put Shav, best post of the thread.
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#23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 609
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Lex Stewart - legend!!!!!
Roads Minister Duncan Gay - Mr "Damn we need the money" |
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#24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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true that makes it different to the territory but I'm sure these euro motorways have a lot of traffic too. 110 on NSW freeways is a joke in most cases
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
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#26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
I had a bit of a laugh the other day when the rabid zealot scruby tried to change his tact and rather than say NT was the only place in the western world to have (//) which of course would include Germany etc. he changed it to only non divided roads in the western world. Isle of Man is not in the far east......... Like all rabid zealots scruby never lets any facts get in the way of his jihad. |
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#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,457
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#28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD
Posts: 876
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I'm not interested in open speed limits on the Hwys that I use most frequently ( the Bruce and Peak Downs) because they are just not designed for the volume of traffic that they currently carry, nor do they have adequate passing lanes. If the government were to spend some money on these roads to improve them to the point where you had plenty of opportunity to pass, then an open speed limit would be possible (IE 4 lanes, divided road, etc), but this is never going to happen.
There are certain sections of both roads that would accomodate higher limits than what are currently in place though and I would be very keen to see this happen as both of these roads have plenty of fatigue related accidents notched up on their belts. For example, the Sarina-Malborough-Rockhampton section of the Bruce HWY, the worst bit being Sarina- Malborough. This is the most boring 300klm stretch on the east coast IMHO, but could be good for up to 150 if the shoulders and lanes were widened (work for this is actually underway at the moment in this section) and wire rope barriers installed on the shoulders. This would decrease the fatigue related accidents that this stretch is notorious for IMHO as you could cut out up to 1 hour over a 300klm stretch, which of course means less time behind the wheel.
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Octane BFII XR6 Turbo manual sedan. SOLD 2014 BMW S1000R 2006 Toyota Landcruiser GXL 1HD-FTE Last edited by XR6TCraig; 17-10-2012 at 10:09 PM. |
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#29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,325
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Do you know what is ridiculous. Road work speed limits.
I don't mind them if they are set appropriately in appropriate locations. This evening driving in a 90 zone. Approached the regular 80 sign, but the one on the medium strip was covered with a temporary 70 sign. 40m after a trailer with electronic 40 sign. 20m later a temporary 80 sign. 200m later a 60 'ahead' sign. 30m later temporary 60 sign. The road work witches hats begin then 30m later temporary 40 sign. 30m later temporary 80 sign. 100m later a temporary 40 sign 100m later End Road Work 80 sign. So in about 600 metres there were 9 different speed signs. And they wonder why no one gives a **** about speed limits. Last edited by Ben73; 17-10-2012 at 10:22 PM. |
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#30 | |||
Mot Adv-NSW
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 2,153
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http://www.indiandrivingschools.com/...ory-signs.html http://chandigarhtrafficpolice.org/restrictionends.php Odd road signs, note the similarity with SWEDEN's version, its 'square' and bears the diagonal stripes, and has the same meaning and is used with the sign appearing to its left (which may carry another numeral/limit that ceases):- http://www.reisen-tcs.ch/etc/mediali...outiers_en.pdf Southern Phillipines have it. The sign still appears in the Malaysian driver ed book with its full meaning, its just not posted thesedays I understand, but was when I lived there back in 72' (Road to Thai border). Thailand may still use it. NZ have it - but tell you it means 100km/h, so an International driver would be best advised to have the matter determined at the International court of Justice in Geneva. It appears in some South American countries like Argentina with open effect, though this was about 10 years back. I am certain there are others in the ME.
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ORDER FORD AUSTRALIA PART NO: AM6U7J19G329AA. This is a European-UN/AS3790B Spec safety-warning triangle used to give advanced warning to approaching traffic of a vehicle breakdown, or crash scene (to prevent secondary). Stow in the boot area. See your Ford dealer for this $35.95 safety item & when you buy a new Ford, please insist on it! See Page 83, part 4.4.1 http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/media...eSafePart4.pdf Last edited by Keepleft; 17-10-2012 at 10:30 PM. |
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