Letting go of a Financial black hole

[jphanna]

This applies to old daily drivers only. I have always used the rule of, if the repairs cost more than the market value of the car, I dispose of it, any way I can.

For example, many years ago, I had an old mazda 929 1800 auto run about. The day I had the front disks machine and new pads put on it, I drove it out and on the way home, noticed it idling lumpy at the lights….a little further on and steam out the exhaust. I knew I was gone with a head gasket failure, and a quick check under the bonnet confirmed this. I drove it straight to a wrecking yard and they ‘gave me’ $150.00 for it.

The market value for one of those was $500.00 at the time….a head gasket repair, minimum $500-1000. plus an engine is never the same once they have been repaired. I walked away, and used my XE Fairmont every day, from that point on.

Now my son has bought a 1983 BMW 318i, with complimentary 80’s rust that inflicted on most cars back then, he has already spent $500.00 on brakes, the tyres are gone, and you cant buy replacements easily. (One size fits only and it’s a special order. cant buy new rims either) The Temp gauge sits on ¾ on a cold day….this is before we start our regular 40deg summer days. i can smell head gasket failure before summer is out.

He had a mint, one owner (my dad) EA with 120,000 on the clock, that’s could be fixed easy, and parts every where, but he had to get a ‘cool car’….He will learn soon enough that looking 'cool' may not be good for his wallet.

At what point do you dispose of a daily driver, or will you keep pouring money into it, no matter what?

[Kryton]

Your complaining about him putting money into a BMW, yet youd rather him throw money into a EA which would be realistically worth $500-$800?

[jphanna]

Originally Posted by davway

Your complaining about him putting money into a BMW, yet youd rather him throw money into a EA which would be realistically worth $500-$800?

I know the value of EA's!!!... dont worry about that, but this one had no current, or impending problems. good tyres/alloy rims, no rust, good interior, good air cond. If it did break down though, then the repairs v value rule would kick in for sure.

the other day, his heater hose split. try getting one for his model BMW (E21) they dont exist in aust according to BMW parts. we used a hose from the XE-XF model falcon (25mm one end, 19mm the other) and chopped it up to suit. i found out that lucky bit of info by a radiator repair man.

[Cheese3]

Old BMW's looks cooler
style beats common sense every day of the week!

[Road_Warrior]

I dunno, for me it would depend on the repair that is needed. For something like a Falcon, a head gasket to me is not a deal breaker provided that the rest of the car is in good order, even if its practical dollar value is low. But if the rest of it was clapped then yeah I'd offload it.

[macman]

I paid $350 for my daily driver XE Fairmont. It was licensed and driving however I straight away spent money on the car with a new battery, new radiator, new tyres, full service and new brake pads.

All of this is just general stuff, you'd do all that to ANY car after a year or two if you're interested in keeping it road worthy and not just running it into the ground.

It's a fact that I deal with that cars NEED money spent on them. They're not like washing machines or fridges where you just use them constantly, never maintain them and eventually when they're broken, chuck them out and get a new one.

It did however, after a year, need the head gasket replacing and the head repaired. Wasn't too bad as my Father and I saved on labour costs by fitting the new parts ourselves. Still meant it cost probably more than the car was "worth" but I knew it was a good car and once it was done it was something that wouldn't need doing again.

I'm glad I spent the money on the car where it was needed when it was needed because 6 years down the track it's still licensed, running, reliable and bullet proof. I have probably spent $2,500 on it over the 6 years (some cosmetic enhancements too) - it's probably not worth $2,500 if I tried to sell it but why would I sell it when it's such a great car that is cheap for parts, easy to work on and already had it's maintenance kept up? I know what's been done and I know what condition everything is in.

[cs123]

I think if you're mechanically "aware" you get a good feel for what a car is going to owe you in the future.

I like to DIY on older cars so I have a pretty good idea of the condition of the vehicle and what costs I will be up for in the future. I'm a devil you know sort of person, so I would keep a car that I was happy with and just repair it as needed.

If you dispose of it and buy another of a similar vintage what guarantee do you have that it won't give you grief as well?

[jphanna]

Dear MACMAN, an ESP Fairmont Ghia is a future classic. i dont class that as a daily driver, even if you do. That car is worth fixing and keeping.

my son is at Tafe and not got a lot of money coming in. i will help him, but i wont carry him....

if you are in that category, then want to be able to get from A to B, reliably......then its better to get boring car, even if its old, that you can get parts for, than a 'cool car' that you cant.....especially if that cool car has a list of items that need attention....not to mention defect attracting RUST.

we all make mistakes, i bought a 4cylinder LJ torana as a youth.......head gasket went in 4 weeks. didnt notice the white paste in the airfilter hose attached to the rocker cover.

[iCat]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

style beats common sense every day of the week!

oh it does indeed!

[Ford_The_Win]

If you buy an old clunker for a daily then what else would you expect? A car that only costs $1500 is hardly likely to run perfectly for the next decade. You may as well be throwing your money away buying cars like that, you drive them around for six months then they die and aren't worth anything, and you've just lost $1500 you could have put towards something half decent.

[Fev]

I'd still take the E30 over the EA for sure hahah

I did just buy a 84 Bluebird though which will be a sinkhole of cash - but it will look cool! hehe.

It all depends on what you want to do with the car. Is it a daily driver just for a-b until it dies then you go buy another one or are you willing to repair your clunker when it breaks? It all depends on what you can afford, what you're willing to do and you're emotional attachment to the car.

[TheInterceptor]

My old '83 subie wagon...ran swell for a few months then i kid you not, it had one thing go wrong each week after a certain point in time...

Goooooood bye. It now lives on in Canberra as a parts car...

[XESP351]

Originally Posted by macman

I paid $350 for my daily driver XE Fairmont. It was licensed and driving however I straight away spent money on the car with a new battery, new radiator, new tyres, full service and new brake pads.

All of this is just general stuff, you'd do all that to ANY car after a year or two if you're interested in keeping it road worthy and not just running it into the ground.

Originally Posted by jphanna

Dear MACMAN, an ESP Fairmont Ghia is a future classic. i dont class that as a daily driver, even if you do. That car is worth fixing and keeping.

I think you'll find he's not talking about his ESP, rather an XE Fairmont daily. Doubt he paid $350 for an ESP.

XE's are bullet proof anyway ESP or not and are worth holding onto.

[ebxr8240]

Best to buy a Korean car new with 5 years warranty...
Just take the badges off to look cool...

[The Yeti]

It boils down to what you want, if you look at cars puerly as a cost (and lets face it daliy drivers are just that) then you would get rid of it. but its up to him, perhaps nows the time to learn somthing, I would argue that a little reasurch will find an after market wheel that may be for another manufactuer that will have the same PCD, back spacing etc as the Beamer and runns a common size tyre (forums are your freind in this case) as for the temp, why is it runnign hot, does it just need a radiator clean and flush? is the gauge acurate?

My XP is about to become my daliy driver, I could use my wifes old VZ but I have decided to sell that and use the XP becasue I just NEED somthing that isnt like every one elses car on the road yea it wont be as reliable as the VZ and $ per KM will be higher in R&M over the cost of the year but some times you need to like what you drive

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Best to buy a Korean car new with 5 years warranty...
Just take the badges off to look cool...

Nothing wrong with new Korean cars, they are even starting to become a little bit cool. Have you seen some of the new Kias? I love the look of them, very cool and different. Was quite impressed with them at the motor show a few months back, very well executed, they have come a long way. Falcon and Commo, in comparison, were the worst built cars there.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Simple answer is when the warranty runs out...

This time ill be keeping my current GT past the warranty expire date, its been flawless.

[FPV+fteT3]

My oldest daughter bought her first car a hyundai excell $1400 all books and 150k's 12 months later it needed new tyres, rego and a water pump. She decided to buy another car we looked at POS for 10-15k in the end I sold her my subie impreza. The hyundai had $1600 spent on it including waterpump, while we had it apart a new timing belt, new brakes and all discs and drums machined, new fluids incl radiator flush, new back half of exhaust, 4 tyres with rego it owes me @3k its now my youngest daughters car on her red P's. I figure its in pretty good nick now, cheap to run and only needs 3rd party insurance and better than another 3k car with issues. Ideal for the uni car park next year.
It has been back on the road 10 months now and no issues.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Best to buy a Korean car new with 5 years warranty...
Just take the badges off to look cool...

Or better still put Chev badges on it , everyone knows they will make it go 50KPH faster .

[RAPID_BA]

MY golden rule is always buy the best condition car you can afford.

If someone has $5,000 to spend on a car, they cant then go and say but i want a bmw. they cant pick their colour etc etc..

get the lowest km best condition car for that money even if you are paying a premium for that model. You want to avoid the maintenence costs.

I would take a mint low km EA falcon over a high km roughie AU anyday. Id take it over a roughie V8 VT as well.

If it shows any signs of a major problem its gone with me, even a leak. for sale.

I know someone that wants to spend $8000 on a car, I have taken the time to look online and presented a few options. Good cars with under 80,000km, like a good AU falcon, even a VT commodore or magna 3.5 with low km. I look for one owner cars even if they are a little higher priced than the majority.

Then i get responses like, ive seen them cheaper or i hate the colour etc etc. I dont say it but with $8000 but the car of your dreams if you want even if its the worst condition version available. id take the daggy car in mint cond anyday.

[SSD-85]

Well what I find cool everyone else finds daggy, or lame or whatever the hell its called nowadays I think my sig is testament to that.

Luckily I dont give a rats earlobe what people think about me & how uncool I may be.

[El Venom]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

MY golden rule is always buy the best condition car you can afford.

get the lowest km best condition car for that money even if you are paying a premium for that model. You want to avoid the maintenence costs.

That doesnt always work out. My wife and I purchased a car just before last xmas and it was the best condition, lowest k's, best history for the model we were looking at with an racq inspection we paid for and besides the $6500 worth of accident damage which was covered under insurance we have spent another 9 grand on it and that doesnt include what I would call normal servicing costs (oil changes, tires, brake pads, wiper blades, ect)

Unfortunately we got finance to get the car and cant refinance because we havent had the loan long enough.

[XD 351 Ute]

Hmm, better get rid of my XD ute then.
Paid a fair bit for it 7 years ago, have spent a crapload more on parts and unobtainable spares for the day she gets done up.
Am I going to sell it because it's way too big a black hole?
Nope. I love it.

Ed

[2011G6E]

I find it odd that you "can't get tyres" for a 1983 car...My '82 Celica has period Supra wheels on it, which are supposed to be fitted with 225/60-14's...you can get them, but they cost a fortune, so I looked up a tyre size comparitor calculator on the net, and found that there was only a few mm each way difference between that size and 215/65-14 tyres which are still commonly available for good prices.

There was no such thing as run-flats back then, so I also find it odd that the wheels would need replacing...although i do remember using the excuse to my old man when I was 17 that my Mazda Capella needed a set of alloys because "the tyres are wider and safer"...

[Simple6]

You sound like my dad!

My brother has an E21 that's only come back on the road after 6 months off. Don't believe the American or Euro blokes that an E30 engine will be a straight swap. Its not! What a nightmare! Then once he put it in for a pink slip it was knocked back on rust! So he spent more time/money repairing all that, just to get it through!

I've been begging him to get a Falcon (any model!) but no luck and as you say - a BMW is cooler than a Falcon! Only because quite often Im the one helping work on it - at least I have more knowledge with Falcons!

[RAPID_BA]

If you have falcon budget don't buy a thrashed bmw, buy the falcon, otherwise it will be a blackhole Financial

Luckily if you have daewoo money you can still get a decent falcon.

[flappist]

I used to have a whole fleet of old falcons, EA-AU for the troops. They all cost bugger all to buy but an absolute fortune to keep on the road and fuel.

I sold the lot and bought Toyotas and Hyundais which, although they cost more to buy actually saved me heaps in running costs.

In saying that ALL cars are financial black holes but remember life is not a dress rehearsal and all the money you save by not driving what you want to drive will not get you a better mobility scooter in your retirement home.....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

I used to have a whole fleet of old falcons, EA-AU for the troops. They all cost bugger all to buy but an absolute fortune to keep on the road and fuel.

I sold the lot and bought Toyotas and Hyundais which, although they cost more to buy actually saved me heaps in running costs.

In saying that ALL cars are financial black holes but remember life is not a dress rehearsal and all the money you save by not driving what you want to drive will not get you a better mobility scooter in your retirement home.....

This.
The real cost of ownership includes all items, sometimes running the numbers
allows us to change our minds and realise that there are better options.

[JamesR]

im about to strip my EF wagon.
rego runs out in december, and its getting tired. i have been looking at getting a Subaru for a while now, and the other day my speedo stopped working. i swapped the speedo sensor thingo over, and still didnt work. so i cracked it, and rang up about a car, took it for a drive and bought it. just waiting to finalise the deal.

i already spent too much money on this car, quite a lot in the last year. and we have a few other falcons at home that will benefit from a few of my parts.

i also just let my escort run out of rego, so im on the look out for another one.

feels good to let go.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by jpd80

This.
The real cost of ownership includes all items, sometimes running the numbers
allows us to change our minds and realise that there are better options.

I wish I had realised this before I sold my Toyota Now I'm lumbered with a car that leaves a trail of parts everywhere it goes and returns 14L/100 km I would have been better off fixing my old car for $1k.