Tiredness/fatigue the same as drugs/alcohol

buggo · 26-04-2010, 07:57 PM

I was just watching ACA, and they had i segment about the effects that drugs/alcohol have on a drivers perception.
They conducted practical test to determine someones competence, such as walking along a line whilst counting by 1000's.
Some of the results looked similar to when someone is extremely tired, such as lack of balance and concentration. For example, I went to a party and got home at three, but had to get up at 4.15 to walk to work by 5. And not finishing till 12.
I was not the same person, I was slow, disoriented, had no focus on the task at hand.( In my case, making b&e muffins at McDonalds.) I thought to myself, what if I had to drive to work in Sydney, etc, being that tired for whatever reason, party, school work, 2nd job, et.
So my piont is, is driving under the influence of sleep deprivation just as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol, why has no one in the media(to my knowledge) questioned this, and how can this be detected by an officer?

(I had a search of the keywords, but couldn't find anything simiar. Hope this is not a repost)

Buggo.

pottery beige · 26-04-2010, 08:04 PM

A bigger worry is average joe citizen driving around of his scone on prescription drug's..... totally oblivious to how off his head he is.... Scary

Jim Goose · 26-04-2010, 08:08 PM

Er so whats your point?

Its not illegal to drive tired..... however its very stupid to do so.

What they (ACA) are trying to do is bring it to peoples attension.

GrimmReaper09 · 26-04-2010, 08:15 PM

There is no DEFINITE way to gauge someones fatigue level as some handle fatigue better than others. One person could be way more fatigued than the other person but pass a test.
They can test alcohol and drugs and come up with a positive or negative reading but they couldn't fine you and take you to court for being tired because you could just say "No I wasn't" and there's no hard evidence to prove your guilt so they don't bother.

buggo · 26-04-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Er so whats your point?

Its not illegal to drive tired..... however its very stupid to do so.

What they (ACA) are trying to do is bring it to peoples attension.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

So my point is, is driving under the influence of sleep deprivation just as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol, why has no one in the media(to my knowledge) questioned this, and how can this be detected by an officer?

The ACA didn't mention tiredness, only drugs and alcohol. But the effects are similar, and nothing is being said.
Being stupid won't deter people from driving, there mentality is 'not illegal, must be safe'

GrimmReaper09 · 26-04-2010, 08:27 PM

I have driven tired a couple times. One particular time I kept myself awake for a week on coke and chocolate to help move someone interstate. I woke up on the wrong side of the road a few time barely missing oncoming cars. I was hallucinating too.....I'd see cars pull out from roads that didn't exist ( miles from any towns ) and then just simply vanish.

Another time I started feeling tired then perked up again..........the next thing I am 300km from where I remember and there was a roo jumping out in front of me. I can't remember what this is called but it's an actual medical condition that some of truckies experience.

That was the last time I EVER drove tired.

So in my opinion driving tired/fatigued is just as bad if not worse than drink/drug driving.

Futura_2nv · 26-04-2010, 08:45 PM

its just so hard to keep yourself awake sometimes when your tired too tho u find urself closing ur eyes and being like ooh just for a second then its like nah no goods i cant do that but ah i need to, and as alert as you need to be while driving especially at night time you'd think that would be enough to keep u alert but its not.

always make sure i am wide awake and capable of driving its just not worth the risk
so i can definately agree that tired or fatigued driving is just as bad as drug driving but atleast driving tired your in the frame of mind where your able to logically think and actually pull over and do the right thing

pottery beige · 26-04-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimmReaper09

I was hallucinating too.....I'd see cars pull out from roads that didn't exist ( miles from any towns ) and then just simply vanish.

freaky isn't it.....

RedHotGT · 26-04-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

So my point is, is driving under the influence of sleep deprivation just as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol, why has no one in the media(to my knowledge) questioned this, and how can this be detected by an officer?
Buggo.

No Media??

Just years of campaigning from TAC...
You don't remember this ad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7984fg1xr0

Perhaps this slogan:
http://fatiguekills.com/

I could post 100 links to this stuff... its not a new idea....

How can it be detected by an officer... If you're swerving all over the road... and they pull you over... and you blow under .05 they can still suggest (and perhaps insist) that you are unsafe to drive...

I'm gobsmacked by this thread...

**GasoLane** · 26-04-2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

I was just watching ACA, and they had i segment about the effects that drugs/alcohol have on a drivers perception.

People STILL watch ACA?

ThePistonHead · 26-04-2010, 09:26 PM

Richard Hammond did an experiment based around this IIRC.

Was it for brainiac or top gear?

Give it a search on youtube.

lofty · 26-04-2010, 09:27 PM

Whenever I drive from SA to VIC I seem to see huge signs at close intervals making rhymes about fatigued driving. Seems kinda like a state obsession to me.

dannyhilton · 26-04-2010, 09:43 PM

Firstly, ACA is crap. While they probably have a half decent point here, I bet the article was filled full of exaggerated figures, confronting one liners and interviews with uneducated people about how their neighbor drives drunk, oh and the neighbors new pool puts a salty residue on his tin porch which is killing his family, animals and making his VP Commodore rust.

But fella, I agree with you here. Driving tired. Wow. That's deadly. Even one crap nights sleep, I can pick up small things I do that I wouldn't normally. Driving after a few nights of crap sleep, that is deadly. While driving drunk or alcohol induced is by no means smart, I believe fatigue is right up there with the worst.

BENT_8 · 26-04-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

No Media??

Just years of campaigning from TAC...
You don't remember this ad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7984fg1xr0

Perhaps this slogan:
http://fatiguekills.com/

I could post 100 links to this stuff... its not a new idea....

I'm gobsmacked by this thread...

Agreed!

I think it comes down to conditioning. If you spend a bit of time doing long hauls you become aware of your boundaries.
This would suggest why fatigue related accidents occur at holiday periods as 'city slickers' hit the road.
Most interstate hwys have fatigue signs every few k's warning of micro sleeps etc.

Personally i have a good fatigue tolerance and wouldnt think twice about doing Adel.-Syd. in a day.

I have witnessed it though, one night on the way into Hay after an 8hr drive.
My father inlaw was following me when about 20k from Hay he failed to dip his high beam for an oncomming truck despite many flashes from the truck.
I immediately pulled over, which he did too, but when i asked him why he didnt dip his lights for the truck he replied "What truck"...scary stuff

mik · 26-04-2010, 10:00 PM

do we trust ourselves to do the right thing when are dead tired? there would`nt be many people driving that have`nt burn`t the candle at boths ends and driven at some stage for whatever reason, the tricky bit is some of us can deal with fatigue better than others, some of us know our limits, some don`t, some of us think we know our limits but don`t, for those reasons humans will alway make mistakes, until they scan brain activity in cars (or lack of it...... there will be a lot of holden drivers.......hahaha only joking) there will always be accident`s

xr8 utey · 26-04-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

People STILL watch ACA?

i have to but under protest! i hate matthew white

barra265t · 26-04-2010, 10:14 PM

Now and then have to do interstate long haul trips after being sick of expensive equipment being broken/damaged by aircraft cargo. There is no way i'll be dawdling along at 110/100 down a dead straight - formula for fatigue. If this was still 1987/1989 and I was driving a VL/VN/EA/XF, then certainly. This is 2010 and i'm in an FG falcon. Always find myself checking out the maps for avoiding all major highways, bel sti RD on high alert. Politically incorrect and 'dangerous'? maybe so. Never once in last 6 years suffered from fatigue and always get from point A to point B refreshed.

Trendseeker · 26-04-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

I was not the same person, I was slow, disoriented, had no focus on the task at hand.( In my case, making b&e muffins at McDonalds.) Buggo.

Picture the poor diner who found that his B&E McMuffin had pickles on it! I think we have some zombie maccas workers at my local restaurant - they're always leaving something out of my take-away package.

uranium_death · 27-04-2010, 01:15 AM

Being fatigued does a lot.

I once did not sleep for around 36 hours and my concentration span was 2 seconds, I had to convince myself that I had just done what I had done (whatever that may have been), and then I heard my Dad yelling at my brother. Problem was that my old man wasn't even home.

I know that when absolutely fatigued, driving is not a thing to do, and the only cure is a good night's sleep during regular hours (10-11pm bedtime, 8 hours ideally, maybe 9?) ideally.

rodderz · 27-04-2010, 01:40 AM

It does worry you when you're driving somewhere and you can't remember the last 5 minutes of driving, you wonder how the hell you managed to stay straight on the road.

I find the hardest times are at night on straight roads with dotted white lines, that does your head in after a few hours straight of it.

vztrt · 27-04-2010, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyhilton

Firstly, ACA is crap. While they probably have a half decent point here, I bet the article was filled full of exaggerated figures, confronting one liners and interviews with uneducated people about how their neighbour drives drunk, oh and the neighbours new pool puts a salty residue on his tin porch which is killing his family, animals and making his VP Commodore rust.

So they tried doing some journalism? They're normally more useless then that. lol

Trevor 57 · 27-04-2010, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

I was just watching ACA, and they had i segment about the effects that drugs/alcohol have on a drivers perception.
They conducted practical test to determine someones competence, such as walking along a line whilst counting by 1000's.
Some of the results looked similar to when someone is extremely tired, such as lack of balance and concentration. For example, I went to a party and got home at three, but had to get up at 4.15 to walk to work by 5. And not finishing till 12.
I was not the same person, I was slow, disoriented, had no focus on the task at hand.( In my case, making b&e muffins at McDonalds.) I thought to myself, what if I had to drive to work in Sydney, etc, being that tired for whatever reason, party, school work, 2nd job, et.
So my piont is, is driving under the influence of sleep deprivation just as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol, why has no one in the media(to my knowledge) questioned this, and how can this be detected by an officer?

(I had a search of the keywords, but couldn't find anything simiar. Hope this is not a repost)

Buggo.

I have been a driver trainer for over 20 years and I started talking about this relationship in about 1990, it is not new news, the concept has been around for years, but now mainstream media has gotten hold of it.

DBourne · 27-04-2010, 08:53 AM

This past month I've done a lot of driving whilst very tired due to work, and I have to say it's not pleasent in the slightest.

In saying that, I 100% agree with people who say driving fatigued is just as bad / dangerous as drunk

auxr · 27-04-2010, 12:13 PM

Statistics unfortunately only speak for themselves - fall asleep behind the wheel, hit a tree or any other road side furniture and bye bye, your gone.

The amount of scientific study that has been done on this subject is phenomenal - bottom line is, start nodding off, time to pull over.

castellan · 27-04-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Agreed!

I think it comes down to conditioning. If you spend a bit of time doing long hauls you become aware of your boundaries.
This would suggest why fatigue related accidents occur at holiday periods as 'city slickers' hit the road.
Most interstate hwys have fatigue signs every few k's warning of micro sleeps etc.

Personally i have a good fatigue tolerance and wouldnt think twice about doing Adel.-Syd. in a day.

I have witnessed it though, one night on the way into Hay after an 8hr drive.
My father inlaw was following me when about 20k from Hay he failed to dip his high beam for an oncomming truck despite many flashes from the truck.
I immediately pulled over, which he did too, but when i asked him why he didnt dip his lights for the truck he replied "What truck"...scary stuff

YEP!
Fatigued driving can be just as bad as driving paralytically ****ed.
And the cops do have a way of detecting your behavior in regards to it when they pull you up.
People who do not drive much. like city slickers at holiday time are a big worry.
I am convinced that a lot of people pay about as much attention on driving a car, as i would sitting in a lounge watching oprah wind bag on TV.

zdcol71 · 27-04-2010, 02:20 PM

"went to a party and got home at three, but had to get up at 4.15 to walk to work by 5" "I was slow, disoriented, had no focus on the task at hand"
I don't think you are Robinson Crusoe then when it comes to Maccas staff. Now I remember why I don't go there.
(Before I get flamed, both my kids have worked there)

MAD · 27-04-2010, 02:27 PM

I think what the OP is trying to say is why we are not seeing ads showing the closeness of fatigue to drunk/stoned.
We all have seen the ads that say fatigue kills, but never have we been told/shown that the effects are basically the same, if not worse than drugs/alcohol. It may wake up a few drivers that say "I'd never drink and drive" but they wouldnt even know that they are as dangerous being tired.

mcnews · 27-04-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

I was just watching ACA,

FAIL

DBourne · 27-04-2010, 02:33 PM

Like a lot of things MAD, unfortunately most people would probably say "I'll be right!" no matter how much advertising gets thrown at them

MAD · 27-04-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

Like a lot of things MAD, unfortunately most people would probably say "I'll be right!" no matter how much advertising gets thrown at them

You're probably right. There would be many people that currently think "I'll be right" but they would also be many of them that may change their mind if they learned of the similarities to being drunk. Those people are the ones that TAC would be targeting.