Falcon sedan closes in on Commodore

[Blue_XR]

I read this on carsales.com.au

Falcon sedan closes in on Commodore
words - Josh Dowling
Four-door to four-door, the local large sedan sales race is close

The Falcon sedan came within 17 registrations of beating the Holden Commodore in May, but Ford isn't preparing for victory just yet.

The Commodore is still on track to become Australia's biggest selling car for the 14th year in a row, but figures supplied by Ford show the Falcon has closed the gap when comparing only sedan sales.

The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries bundles sedan and wagon sales in the Falcon and Commodore tallies, and it is these figures that are typically quoted by the media and the industry. Using this measure, the Commodore has a comfortable sales lead over the Falcon in the first five months of this year (16,839 versus 11,080).

However Ford couldn't contain its excitement when the Falcon sedan got within 17 units of the Commodore sedan in May, and showed journalists a graph (and subsequently provided figures) showing how close the race was when comparing like with like.

The graph showed how the gap between the pair closed in February, widened in March (when Holden was offering big incentives) and then began to close again in April before the lines almost intersected in May.

"What this graph shows you is that when you take the wagon out of the equation we are very close to Commodore," said the boss of Ford Australia, Marin Burela.

Holden introduced its stylish Sportwagon mid-way through last year, whereas Ford is battling on with a revised version of the previous model.

Ford typically sells its Falcon wagon as a commercial vehicle and, for now at least, is relying on private buyers to shift into the Territory soft-roader, which at its introductory price of $38,888 drive-away, is effectively cheaper than the Falcon wagon.

When asked if Ford would build a wagon version of the new FG Falcon, Burela said there were other priorities.

"It has been designed, but we are yet to decide whether or not to build it. The current wagon is selling well for us as a tool of trade vehicle. We're going to see how the wagon version of the Mondeo is received later this year before we decide to do a wagon version of the current Falcon."

When asked why Ford had not been discounting the Falcon as heavily as Holden had been discounting the Commodore, Burela said: "We made a conscious decision not to go down the path of aggressive discounting. I chose not to follow the very erratic behaviour in March and December of some of our rivals.

"We are building cars to order, to protect our resale values. We have 31 to 32 days of stock in dealer's hands, this is almost an all-time low and a very good position to be in. It means we are not carving up [profits] for the sake of it. Some of our rivals have significantly greater supply in dealer stock."

The last time the Falcon overtook the Commodore was in September 2003, when the Ford won that month's tally by a narrow margin of just 48 sales.

But the then boss of Ford Australia, Geoff Polites, admitted it was a one-off: "We were all excited, no question. But ... we won't hold on to it," he told The Sydney Morning Herald at the time.

Interesting times ahead

[Crazed]

Wow I hadnt realised they had actually designed a FG wagon.

And they are still deciding whether to build it!! I think sales sucess of the Sportwagon have kept the possibility alive, even if the chance is still remote.

The current basic wagon shape will be celebrating its 11th birthday this Sept.

[imugli]

FG wagon has been designed??? WTF???

Is that as in a reskinned version of the previous gen LWB riding on leaf springs or a 'Sportwagon' based on SWB FG with IRS?

Because seriously, bugger me if an FG G6ET Wagon wouldn't be one haul a*se kid carrier. :

[Road_Warrior]

"It has been designed, but we are yet to decide whether or not to build it.

Holy crap!!!

I wonder what it is - ie a new top hat on the current architecture or an actual wagon version of the FG sedan?

I don't think they would bother with a 'Sportswagon' type wagon.

[Crazed]

So when he says they will wait for the reception to the Mondeo wagon before deciding on the FG wagon, what does he mean..?

A. If the Mondeo wagon sells a lot then it proves there is a big market there waiting for a new FG wagon?

B. If the Mondeo wagon sells nothing, it proves that people want a FG wagon instead?

[imugli]

I understand that the crapodore wagon has canibilised sales from the sedan, and that Ford have Terry for the 'Lifestyle' buyer that a Falc wagon would cannibilise, but the way he says it in the same breath as Mondeo wagon (which is being aimed at the lifestyle buyer as well) makes me think it might not be a dedicated fleet load lugger...

But given all the cross canibilisation, would it be worth it? A lot of people on a few threads here think not... I think if it's a lifestyle mobile they should show it, or leak it or something and gauge reation...

[Road_Warrior]

Make no mistake, IF this wagon gets the green light (and it's a very big 'if') it won't be a family wagon, it will be targeted at fleets, reps and tradies much in the same way the current wagon is. Which means povvo pack interior and the leaf spring back end will stay. Which makes sense considering it will probably be based on the ute's underpinnings anyway...

[Crazed]

I wonder when the Territory gets updated with the new engines and interiors, whether or not it will make a new wagon more likely. I know Ford wouldnt want to be making BF parts and engines just for the wagon, so it might be more efficent to update to the FG shape.

I know when Holden released the VE wagon they mentioned that building the VZ wagon alongside the VE sedan was an efficency nightmare, as it was almost the equivalent of making two entirely different cars. As dies, stamps, workstations, installation positions in the factory were different for the VZ and VE.

[TUF_302]

I want to see this FG wagon, as has been posted before me, a G6E Turbo Wagon would be a big seller i think! :

[Jason[98.EL]]

so the wagon is not dead like so many have been saying it is just on hold till the mondeo is released to see if peple want the wagon

i say ford should build it now and see their sales ride high

Jason

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Make no mistake, IF this wagon gets the green light (and it's a very big 'if') it won't be a family wagon, it will be targeted at fleets, reps and tradies much in the same way the current wagon is. Which means povvo pack interior and the leaf spring back end will stay. Which makes sense considering it will probably be based on the ute's underpinnings anyway...

It'll be a fleet hack, the numbers aren't there to justify a complete revamp. A family wagon is the Territory.

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

so the wagon is not dead like so many have been saying it is just on hold till the mondeo is released to see if peple want the wagon

i say ford should build it now and see their sales ride high

Jason

If your worked on the inside the Falcon has been getting the can for a while, the funny thing is it always find a market to survive. end of 06 they said it wouldn't go past BFII, but then they found it viable to survve to the BFIII.

......

Also good to see Ford is not going the discount route.
So Fords not getting discounted as bad as the Holden, more private sales then fleet sales, and now doing well (in units) against the commo.
Things are on the improve.

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by Crazed

So when he says they will wait for the reception to the Mondeo wagon before deciding on the FG wagon, what does he mean..?

A. If the Mondeo wagon sells a lot then it proves there is a big market there waiting for a new FG wagon?

B. If the Mondeo wagon sells nothing, it proves that people want a FG wagon instead?

If Mondeo wagon sells by the bucket load, it will be to mostly private buyers or small fleets (i.e. profitable)... its the FG wagons death knell.... double edged sword. They will continue with the BF series xi as it sells quite well to fleets wanting a cheap to buy/run wagon.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Crazed

So when he says they will wait for the reception to the Mondeo wagon before deciding on the FG wagon, what does he mean..?

A. If the Mondeo wagon sells a lot then it proves there is a big market there waiting for a new FG wagon?

B. If the Mondeo wagon sells nothing, it proves that people want a FG wagon instead?

i would say, you have it back to front. if the mondeo wagon sells, there will be no need to build a falcon wagon.

also the wagon, if built, will likely be continued to be aimed at the commercial market.

i'm a wagon owner. have been for over 10 years and have owned ef, el, ba and bf2 wagons.... however, i've never bought new. i'm not on that sort of money, so i'm wondering what my next car will be when its time to upgrade. given the mondeo sedan is not much smaller than the falcon, it would be interesting to see the specs for the mondeo wagon. i would imagine it will be similar to the mazda6 wagon though.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by vztrt

It'll be a fleet hack, the numbers aren't there to justify a complete revamp. A family wagon is the Territory.

Exactly. And if the fleets fall the for the Mondeo wagon in a big way, you can say bye bye to the Falcon wagon altogether.

Either way, a decision has more than likely been made already about the wagon.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Exactly. And if the fleets fall the for the Mondeo wagon in a big way, you can say bye bye to the Falcon wagon altogether.

I could see the Falc wagon living on and the mondeo competing for Family wagon market. I dont see the Mondeo wagon being a fleet hack as buyers of the VE Holden wagon have learned that a fleet wagon needs space.

But it would be good to see an FG front on a wagon to work alongside the Mondeo wagon, doubt we will see that.

[GS608]

would like to see the wagon have a whole new design, keeping the leaf springs, but a redesigned rear end, as well as the FG front and middle section

[Road_Warrior]

So, in saying that the "wagon has already been designed" I wonder if they had "already designed" a Fairlane too?

Then again, 'designed' could mean anything from an artist's drawing, to full engineering working drawings for tooling manufacture. I think Burela means the former.

[Director]

I will be in the market for a wagon in 18 months, I will not buy a commodore and the wife is concerned about fuel consumption so the terry is probably out. Having said this I would readily buy a Mondeo wagon as a suitable replacement for a falc wagon. I reckon the mondeo will do the trick, I reckon alot of others probably feel the same way, I dont think we will see the FG wagon unfortunately.
Back on topic great news for Ford, sounds like they have a sound business plan, and it is a quality product. I would rather they continue to make a great car and be profitable than outselling the commo.

[Ghiadude]

Or (hypothetical) theyve designed two wagons. one fleet hack and one sportswagon competitor. Theyll wait and see what the mondeo does to see if people do want a family wagon (which the mondeo is). Then roll out the one the one thats more popular...long shot but

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by prydey

i would say, you have it back to front. if the mondeo wagon sells, there will be no need to build a falcon wagon.

also the wagon, if built, will likely be continued to be aimed at the commercial market.

i'm a wagon owner. have been for over 10 years and have owned ef, el, ba and bf2 wagons.... however, i've never bought new. i'm not on that sort of money, so i'm wondering what my next car will be when its time to upgrade. given the mondeo sedan is not much smaller than the falcon, it would be interesting to see the specs for the mondeo wagon. i would imagine it will be similar to the mazda6 wagon though.

I strongly agree with what's bolded, they won't go down the pansy VE liftback/hatch/wagon thing, it's just not practical for a) Fleet/Commercial and b) large cargo for if/when the family man (okay, and woman too) needs it. Very easy to strike a compromise and make it as stylish and poofy-looking like the VE thing but without sacrificing space.

Him even mentioning it's been designed means he's testing the water. So far, everything this bloke has done has been proactive/positive and good Ford, and most importantly, aggressive. I think he wants the wagon back.

[ZA-289]

This thread is not about a wagon! Never have I heard so much about wagons....

Back on topic, this is great news, I hope people are starting to realise how good the FG really is compared to the VE.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by ZA-289

This thread is not about a wagon! Never have I heard so much about wagons....

Lol. I had to check the title of the thread a couple of times to make sure I was reading the right thing. Cant belive so many people are passionate about wagons.

On topic, very good news for Falcon. It wont be long I think before Ford in general surpass Holden in total sales monthly.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by ZA-289

This thread is not about a wagon! Never have I heard so much about wagons....

Back on topic, this is great news, I hope people are starting to realise how good the FG really is compared to the VE.

You're right, but... but... the article talks about the wagon too. It says "without counting the wagons" Falcon came close to leveling with Commodore, and that there was an FG wagon already designed.

Now, afaik, this is the first time an official from Ford has mention this, and it is very news worthy, worthier imo than FG closing in on VE.

Bill Osbourne was right. The better car will (should) always outsell it's competitor. If this trend continues it's not hard to predict Falcon will outsell VE for a couple of months. By that time the "All new, billion dollar, ground up design, never seen before, Australian -and Australian only - family sedan, with a quieter more efficient and just as gutless alloytec coupled to the magnificent 4speed silky banana smoothie gearbox, and a little bit less uglier (from 200 metres only) flare kit, improved new plastics - that don't feel like a pineapple - interior" Holden VF (or whatever) Commodore, will be released _

[prydey]

i believe it has a lot to do with wagons. the holden one in particular. if holden didn't have a wagon, falcon wouldn't be anywhere near 17 fewer registrations. its a pretty silly thing for ford to come out and boast about!! most of the sales of the commo wagon are to people who would normally buy a sedan. you can't really separate out the sales and then slap yourself on the back as to how well you are doing.

i'm not saying it shows there is a market for the wagon either. commodore proves that as well, given the lack of an increase in overall sales.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by prydey

i believe it has a lot to do with wagons. the holden one in particular. if holden didn't have a wagon, falcon wouldn't be anywhere near 17 fewer registrations. its a pretty silly thing for ford to come out and boast about!! most of the sales of the commo wagon are to people who would normally buy a sedan.

I just dont buy this to be honest. If a person wants a sedan (as I do), I have no interest at all in a Wagon.. And I can't understand why anyone who wants a Wagon would setle for a sedan.. Just doesnt make sense to me, but I could be wrong.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Him even mentioning it's been designed means he's testing the water. So far, everything this bloke has done has been proactive/positive and good Ford, and most importantly, aggressive. I think he wants the wagon back.

Definitely agree Falc'man. Marin is very proactive and aggressive.

Sure do hope that if Ford Falcon sedan outsells the opposition sedan, they begin to advertise the new #1! Even if it as one of the little asterisks that says *June 2009 VFACTS sales... Then add why, like 9.9L economy, superior power, torque, acceleration, interior, Euro styling etc.

Many GMH fans will know that GM is bankrupt, so adding in the Falcon sedan being number 1 would just be a great kick in their guts! Plus a wake up call that Ford is on the way back

NB So from the numbers C'dore wagon outsold Falcon wagon by 854 units as the total difference was 837 combined sales.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Definitely agree Falc'man. Marin is very proactive and aggressive.

Sure do hope that if Ford Falcon sedan outsells the opposition sedan, they begin to advertise the new #1! Even if it as one of the little asterisks that says *June 2009 VFACTS sales... Then add why, like 9.9L economy, superior power, torque, acceleration, interior, Euro styling etc.

Many GMH fans will know that GM is bankrupt, so adding in the Falcon sedan being number 1 would just be a great kick in their guts! Plus a wake up call that Ford is on the way back

NB So from the numbers C'dore wagon outsold Falcon wagon by 854 units as the total difference was 837 combined sales.

You need to offset that with terri figures to get the real picture..

[flappist]

A few observations on this:

1) Ford made "performance" wagons up until 2002, a 5l V8 was an option. They sold bugger all of them.
2) FTG made a F6 wagon in 2006, they took ages to sell it, much drooling, no money.
3) Most of the "pro wagoneers" are not driving wagons although I am sure they have a good excuse.
4) The strongest argument put up in favour of a performance wagon is that another company makes them and that company has admitted losing money for years. These wagons are actually quite rare compared to all the other models.
5) Even on AFF where the lunatic fringe of modification zealots abide, there are not a lot of BA/BF wagons fitted with super chargers, turbo chargers, V8s, manual conversions, upgraded interiors, body kits etc while there are squillions of above modded sedans and utes.

Ford makes money first, cars second. Some thing that may have once done well are now not viable.
Panel Van, Fairlane, Coupe, LTD all gone. The wagon has one last small profitable market and when that dies so will the wagon.

[dom_105]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You need to offset that with terri figures to get the real picture..

I never understood why there wasn't more emphasis put on "total factory output" as opposed to just Commodore v Falcon.

It's obvious that the Commodore nameplate will have the advantage over the Falcon because Holden doesn't have a Territory to take sales off the Commodore.

So what if the Commodore is selling x amount more than the Falcon, the important thing is how many cars is each company pushing out each month. It will be still Holden (i assume, or Toyota most likely) but it would be closer than what the traditional figures indicate.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by dom_105

I never understood why there wasn't more emphasis put on "total factory output" as opposed to just Commodore v Falcon.

It's obvious that the Commodore nameplate will have the advantage over the Falcon because Holden doesn't have a Territory to take sales off the Commodore.

So what if the Commodore is selling x amount more than the Falcon, the important thing is how many cars is each company pushing out each month. It will be still Holden (i assume, or Toyota most likely) but it would be closer than what the traditional figures indicate.

Ford need to aim to make money off every sale, Ford have lower overheads than Holden, you can't bank sales volume, you bank profit..
To be honest id be happier to see Ford sell 2000 units a month and turn a sustainable profit then sell 3000 units a month and make a loss like Holden do...
Its all about getting the mix right and turning a profit, not just pumping out cars and flogging them at below cost because you cant slow your operation down quickly....