Peak Oil, do you understand???

[free-energy64]

Seems this topic of Peak Oil is travelling the globe.
What do you think the impact will be in the next 5 years?
If you haven't heard much about it simply Google "Peak Oil" and there's lots to read.
Is this the end of society as we know it?
This cannot simply be dismissed as the huge number of reputable scientists and acedemics all reflect the same views.

[LTDHO]

What is 'Peak Oil'?

[Iphido]

Peak oil is where production of oil has peaked despite rising demand.

Eventually I think its going to happen. I don't think we are quite there yet. But soon. It common sense that it will happen, oil is a finite resorce, while there is a lot of it, eventually demand is going to outstrip supply.

When that happens oil price will basically be on a continous run up. There will be a few bumps and calm times where technology improves supply, or makes demand drop off.

When this happens things are going to change. Energy won't be as cheap.

Transporting goods, manufacture, raw materials, services etc will all come up in price.

Think massive world wide inflation, and theres not a whole lot governments can do to stop it.

I can see massive panics in the USA. They are very suseptable to it, economically, socially, politically. So is Australia, but I think Australia will play it cool for several reasons:
-We have stacks of suitable resorces. We have 500+ years of coal reserves. Black and brown
-We have stacks of Natural gas reserves
-We have stacks of LPG reserves
-We have stacks of nuclear fuel
-We have a small population
-We can function as a island to ourselves (industry, politically, socially etc)

While to begin with this is going to be great. Its going to get nasty in the long run. As those with big starving eyes look at us.

It may not come as a full scale war, or mass civil disobence. It may just be agressive politics and companys.

I can see mass hysteria in the USA tho. They are boarder line insane already. Look at floridah. They are panic buying, having fist fights infront of stores when a tropic storm approaches. With so many people near boarder line anyway, a big shake like that will turn it into a land Mad Max (the first one then as things get progressively worse in the the later ones).

Thing is no one knows for sure how its going to turn out. Could be a small bump, we innovate and get over it, could actually be a really positive thing. Could start a series of wars (already begun?) and eventually world wide chaos.

Theres a reason why it was seriously suggested Australia buys F-22's ($120mill each!) over 100 F-35's, ~50 M1A1 tanks but not decommission the current Leopards, heavy lifters to move it all around, add to that our ability to make navy ships and Submarines. We have increase the size of our army to near full scale war levels. They aren't the only ones, theres a bit of a world wide arms race on at the moment too.

Governments giving out $2k cash for LPG.

Looking at how this is playing out. I think there is a good chance this could get very serious. Governments don't go on spending sprees defence wise if theres no risk. They don't just give $2k out to citizens just to help them along. The police are converting to a LPG fleet, as are government and some defence vechicals. All the signs they know something we don't.

It doesn't hurt to be prepared.

[Mark s]

Wasn't there mass hysteria in the US and other western countries in the late 70's & early 80's where the fuel supply was all but gone? I remember as a kid fuel rationing, and huge line up to get fuel, and even there you were only allowed a certain amount.

This was one of the reasons American muscle cars died in the US and Ford and Holden looked at dropping the V8. Ford went on and dropped the V8 with the XE being the last model (before the EB) and Holden only kept the V8 after a monster campaign, IIRC which was V8 till 98 campaign.

[jimmy_c]

We will never know how much oil there really is because its not in the financiers best interest. So if someone came out and said. We have 500 years of oil left dont worry.

What would happen the price would drop and no one would make money. it all comes down to $$$. But Iphido is on the ball.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Iphido

. With so many people near boarder line anyway, a big shake like that will turn it into a land Mad Max (the first one then as things get progressively worse in the the later ones).
.

I call the supercharged police falcon and black leathers :Up_to_som

[BlueXr8]

Originally Posted by merlin

I call the supercharged police falcon and black leathers :Up_to_som

hahaha you beat me to it

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

We will never know how much oil there really is because its not in the financiers best interest. So if someone came out and said. We have 500 years of oil left dont worry.

What would happen the price would drop and no one would make money. it all comes down to $$$. But Iphido is on the ball.

you are right shi t if i had a product in high demand and no one knew how much was left and the only way i could make more money is to drive the price up by saying there isnt much left get in quick, it wont last, buy now guys, i would however its a guessing game all those arab countries are full of oil but its a scary sign when even the goverment is conveting to LPG

[Aussie_Geo]

End of Civilisation Stuff??? Hardly anyone remeber the Y2K bug???

As a Geo. I thought i would just mention a few things. In my humble opinion I think that a lot of the current price rise is because that demand has outstripped the refining capacity rather than the earth's oil resources running short.

As well as the vast coal (black and brown), and natural gas resources Australia has there are also enourmous oil shale resources known in Qld, remember the Rundle oil shale project? The technology is not new its just that the combination of green and economic pressures have killed that project - for now, and there are plenty of others waiting in the wings.

It is also interesting to see another major alternative oil resource is being developed now and that is the vast tar sand resources of Canada. And how many people know that SASOL in South Africa produce fuel oil from brown coal resources.

I think it is an oversimplification by the general media to run around shouting "Peak oil", hell who ever sold a newspaper or their new book by proclaiming..... "steady as she goes".

We are a funny lot, always got to worry about something..... Cold War, climate change, Y2K bugs, super-flus, aids, climate change, Club of Rome (saying we were going to run out of metals before year 2000) and so on.

Some say I am getting a little cynical in my old age but then again why let facts get in the way of a good scary story I like to think that I am an optimist and I know it will be nowhere as near as bad as a lot of people say.

I was actually living in Texas during the last big oil shock (1974-5) and there was no fighting in the streets or revolutions etc, and I dont think it will happen as some say. Think of it, what television station is going to put a newstory on about a bunch of people calmly lining up to get their groceries or fill up their car with fuel? so don't let the media form your opinions for you.

Peter

[XR Martin]

In the 60s they said the oil would run out in the 80s, in the 70s they said it would be the 90s, in the 80s they said it would be now.
There will always be oil in my lifetime, its just wont be worth the same in 50years.

[SiKoRa_eL_97]

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net check that site explains it all

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

We will never know how much oil there really is because its not in the financiers best interest. So if someone came out and said. We have 500 years of oil left dont worry.

What would happen the price would drop and no one would make money. it all comes down to $$$. But Iphido is on the ball.

Unfortunately it works the other way as well. If any oil company was to announce that it had a short supply of oil left, they would loose their share holders and the value of the company would go down. If the oil companies overstate their oil reserve holdings, the value of the company is worth more, and their stock would actually increase in value. The more oil they have (or overstate) the more the "Oil Compony" is worth.

I read about this a while ago

“Royal Dutch/Shell has struggled to win back investors’ trust after admitting between January 2004 and February this year that it had overstated its proved reserves of oil and gas by almost 6.0 billion barrels, and that senior executives were aware of problems long before they were made public”

Remember they are also are competing against each other for global position as well. No company wants to be swallowed up by a bigger one. And another thing, take note at the mergers that are beginning to happen within the oil industry itself (Exxon Mobil Corporation, and now Shell with BP?) as oil companies can create larger reserves without exploration. This also creates a stronger company without blood being spilt, as these are mergers and not takeovers.

Why would this happen if they had plenty of oil left? Why else would you show your enemy where your ammo is hidden? Wouldn’t it be b better to wait until he has run out of ammo and then shoot him? These companies need oil to survive even if it is only on paper.

Unfortunately for us, it is in their best interests to overstate their oil reserves.

[Falcon Coupe]

I believe the media beating up this issue helps the price of oil to rise, the oil companies know the people are expecting rises and it will help soften the blow
It's the same with interest rates, the media practically demanded the last rise.

[GasoLane]

Yep. Saw it on the Internet. So it must be true !

[jimmy_c]

you guys all make good points here.

[XA Coupsta]

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

you guys all make good points here.

Agreed. Aussie Geo - great post.

[The Stylist]

I think there have been some good points made in this thread. I was having a conversation with someone the other day and this person was all doom and gloom after watching a tv story about oil running out.

Rule Number 1:

NEVER take for granted anything that get portrayed by the media! They may not be deliberately bias, but often they can be very selective with the facts to make a good story. Remember some media organizations are out there for ratings and profit.

Rule Number 2:

If possible try and conduct your own research, be objective and very careful where you gather your infomation. The net can be a good resource, but you have to check the credibilty of the source - there is a lot of rubbish out there and just about anyone can make up info on the oil situation.

While I'm not doubting that the current oil reserves may run out, the media beat-up is a bit on the over exaggerated side.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by The Stylist

Rule Number 1:

NEVER take for granted anything that get portrayed by the media! They may not be deliberately bias, but often they can be very selective with the facts to make a good story. Remember some media organizations are out there for ratings and profit.

Agreed, but make that all media organisations (AU spelling). Ask Packer or Murdoch what their main aim is.

Or watch 60mins for a show that's VERY selective with facts

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Iphido

Peak oil is where production of oil has peaked despite rising demand.

Eventually I think its going to happen. I don't think we are quite there yet. But soon. It common sense that it will happen, oil is a finite resorce, while there is a lot of it, eventually demand is going to outstrip supply.

When that happens oil price will basically be on a continous run up. There will be a few bumps and calm times where technology improves supply, or makes demand drop off.

When this happens things are going to change. Energy won't be as cheap.

Transporting goods, manufacture, raw materials, services etc will all come up in price.

Think massive world wide inflation, and theres not a whole lot governments can do to stop it.

I can see massive panics in the USA. They are very suseptable to it, economically, socially, politically. So is Australia, but I think Australia will play it cool for several reasons:
-We have stacks of suitable resorces. We have 500+ years of coal reserves. Black and brown
-We have stacks of Natural gas reserves
-We have stacks of LPG reserves
-We have stacks of nuclear fuel
-We have a small population
-We can function as a island to ourselves (industry, politically, socially etc)

While to begin with this is going to be great. Its going to get nasty in the long run. As those with big starving eyes look at us.

It may not come as a full scale war, or mass civil disobence. It may just be agressive politics and companys.

I can see mass hysteria in the USA tho. They are boarder line insane already. Look at floridah. They are panic buying, having fist fights infront of stores when a tropic storm approaches. With so many people near boarder line anyway, a big shake like that will turn it into a land Mad Max (the first one then as things get progressively worse in the the later ones).

Thing is no one knows for sure how its going to turn out. Could be a small bump, we innovate and get over it, could actually be a really positive thing. Could start a series of wars (already begun?) and eventually world wide chaos.

Theres a reason why it was seriously suggested Australia buys F-22's ($120mill each!) over 100 F-35's, ~50 M1A1 tanks but not decommission the current Leopards, heavy lifters to move it all around, add to that our ability to make navy ships and Submarines. We have increase the size of our army to near full scale war levels. They aren't the only ones, theres a bit of a world wide arms race on at the moment too.

Governments giving out $2k cash for LPG.

Looking at how this is playing out. I think there is a good chance this could get very serious. Governments don't go on spending sprees defence wise if theres no risk. They don't just give $2k out to citizens just to help them along. The police are converting to a LPG fleet, as are government and some defence vechicals. All the signs they know something we don't.

It doesn't hurt to be prepared.

But we are a bloody dry continent! And in the future when water becomes hard to gather, countries will fight wars over water. Australia, due to an idiotic government wasting their time with household conservation when industry and agriculture use 90% of it as well as the fact that we are a dry continent, may require the aid of other countries in the future.

So living as an island may not be beneficial.

And Australia produces nothing anymore it seems. Fosters may soon me out the door, we sold Vegemite, Arnotts, Heinz...the lot.

Bugger it, I'm moving to Mexico.

[Iphido]

Its the fact that the Australian government, a liberal government has gone to the extent of LPG hand outs that actually has be concerned. I take notice when governments act because there actions are usually well calculated.

While you or I may be kept in the dark in general. Governments have a much deeper understanding on these issues with people fed by the best resorces and sitting in rooms worrying about it.

Maybe its just a reflection of the fear of us, the people, the voters that the government is acting to reduce that fear. But its a bloody big step.

They are feeling the need to convert fleets and private vechicals over to LPG, in a big way. That is a concern.

I think its clear that while a world wide mad max time has yet to be declared, economies like our may be very suseptable to irradic oil prices. LPG is easily controlled by the government, and could easily be frozen by our government. We can easily produce all the LPG we need.

We don't need oil to reach continously high prices. Just for it to be irradic. Fuel has to be dependably priced for it to be worth while.

This would be disasterous for the one major manufactured goods Australia makes. Cars. We have a huge car industry in Australia, one much larger than we should have per capita. If we lose that part of our economy we are screwed. As the auto industry pioneers almost all the modern manufacturing methods in Australia and 10 years later little old small manufacturers learn from that. Not to mention it helps keep our small supplier manufacturers afloat with loads of volume.

[OzJavelin]

With 13% capacity water supply here in Bendigo, I'll worry about this first .. then oil later .. then terrorist attacks .. then loss of earths magnetic fields .. then asteroid hit .. then sun exhausting hydrogen supply .. then universal entropy ..
.. there is always something else to worry about (unfortunately).

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

With 13% capacity water supply here in Bendigo, I'll worry about this first .. then oil later .. then terrorist attacks .. then loss of earths magnetic fields .. then asteroid hit .. then sun exhausting hydrogen supply .. then universal entropy ..
.. there is always something else to worry about (unfortunately).

You forgot a nuclear attack by a third world country and Attack of the Killer Tomatoes®

[vztrt]

I know its a bit of a mine thread, but seems a former Holden Engineer seems to be stiring this up again.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575D700107000

Brace for an energy shortage

Australia might not be able to buy oil at any price, says former Holden engineer

By IAN PORTER 16 June 2009

AUSTRALIA is headed for an energy crunch that will make the oil shocks of the 1970s look insignificant, according to an automotive industry leader.

Former GM Holden advanced engineering chief Laurie Sparke told a gaseous fuels conference in Melbourne this week that Australia might not be able to buy oil at any price.

He forewarned that the crunch could come in four to eight years’ time, and urged Australians to start planning for the conversion of all petrol-engine cars to gas – something this country has in abundance.

Dr Sparke said there were signs that world demand was on the rise to a point where it would exceed the dwindling oil supply around the world as well as raise prices.

“Australia is going to lose access to oil first in the western world,” Dr Sparke said. “We don’t have any long-term oil contracts, and we’re remote and we’re politically and militarily a minnow on the global scene.

“I believe we are going to have a very rapid transition from low-priced fuel like we have now to not having enough fuel.

“So we are going to see the first queues in capital cities at petrol stations.”

The ominous prediction was backed up by two recent developments, he said.

First, manufactured goods exports by China and Japan reportedly had started to rise again. “It will be a few years yet before the recession is finished, but already there are signs that world oil consumption is starting to increase,” he said.

The second indicator was the federal government’s National Energy Security Assessment (NESA), which had until now been relatively calm about energy security in Australia.

However, the latest assessment showed a deterioration in the outlook for liquid fuels, although the assessment put the downturn as far out as 2023.

“The NESA’s key finding is that Australia’s level of energy security has decreased in the face of mounting challenges,” the assessment said in its report released in March. “These challenges are diverse and include new policy initiatives as well as factors outside the control of governments such as the global economic downturn.”

The assessment pointed out that Australia was well endowed with energy resource options and was well placed to address many of the issues, but Dr Sparke said he believed the federal government was too complacent.

“Predicted oil output from current investment tapers very rapidly and, when you get supply falling rapidly and demand rising rapidly, you’ll have an overnight crisis,” Dr Sparke warned.

“The government hasn’t grasped how serious the situation is. In order to respond, we don’t have time to build a new set of cars.

“We have got to convert the existing stock to gas. That is going to be the biggest problem in the short term.

“There are 12 million vehicles out there. The government can’t legislate to scrap them and they can’t let them lie idle because people won’t be able to get to work.

“If we are all going to continue to live out in Keilor Downs and drive into the city to work, we will have to retrofit all cars. If you don’t allow these people to work, you will have a massive unemployment problem.”

[Mr Hardware]

a load of hokey if you ask me

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by merlin

I call the supercharged police falcon and black leathers :Up_to_som

That is a role that only I can assume.

[vztrt]

OK heres some more news.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575D70021682F

Gas a hard sell, says Holden

Gas abundant, but still too many hurdles for drivers – including cheap petrol

By IAN PORTER 16 June 2009

AUSTRALIAN drivers will not switch from petrol and diesel to LPG (liquified petroleum gas) while the oil price is at relatively low levels, according to GM Holden.

GM Holden energy and environment director Richard Marshall told a Melbourne seminar on gaseous fuels that a lack of progress by the gas industry with car buyers was down to three reasons: technology, infrastructure and customer acceptance.

He said the industry had to offer the right technology if it was to win customers away from petrol.

“Petrol and diesel have 100 years of development behind them,” he said at the seminar organised by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE).

“While most of these alternate fuels have had a lot of work done, they still need a fair amount of work to achieve the same level of performance (driveability).”

Mr Marshall said Australia had about 3000 LPG filling stations after 20 years of work, but infrastructure issues still lingered.

“We still have the situation with, say, a fleet buyer where they might have a tie up with a service provider like Caltex, and that then might lock them out of a whole geographic region from being able to get fuel,” he said

But the biggest problem was that the public was reluctant to make the move.

“Customers typically are risk averse, and there is a lot of doubt in their minds before they jump,” Mr Marshall said.

“You’ll always have the early adopters but, in the end, it has got to come to whether you have the right business case.

“I really think while oil remains on a par, it will hold back the development of alternative fuels. A lot of the alternative fuels will languish while oil prices stay low.”

Speaking to GoAuto afterwards, Mr Marshall indicated Holden nonetheless was considering launching a dedicated LPG Commodore. At present Holden makes a dual-fuel (petrol and LPG) model.

Mr Marshall said Holden was still working on alternative fuel system because it wanted to be ready when the oil price spiked again.

“We are working on more alternative fuel technologies than we have ever done before,” he said.

He confirmed that Holden would release an E85 Commodore in 2010 that could run on petrol only or a blend of up to 85 per cent ethanol, but he would not be drawn on when Holden would release its LPG-only model.

He also refused to comment on specifics of a mild hybrid project with the Co-operative Research Centre for Advanced Automotive Technologies (AutoCRC).

The AutoCRC prefers rear-wheel drive for a mild hybrid application as the driveshaft makes it simple and relatively cheap to add the electric motor’s torque to the drivetrain.

That project draws on a lot of technology developed by the CSIRO and is a distant relation to the ECOmmodore, which was developed by Holden and the CSIRO and unveiled in 2000.

“The AutoCRC is a separate thing and they can do what they like. There are various partners and we are one of them,” he said.

“It’s just another of the technologies that is potentially out there. Like I said, we’re interested. We certainly support electric because we are going to bring the Volt out here.

“We think there is significant long-term potential in electric vehicles. The Volt will be here in 2012, and after that we will just see how the market pans out.”

Orbital Gas Products managing director Tony Fitzgerald told the seminar the reputation of LPG cars would rise in coming years as manufacturers took over from converters as the major suppliers of LPG cars in Australia.

Last year, about 110,000 LPG vehicles rolled on to the roads, but only about 15,000 were from a car-maker.

Ford’s E-Gas Falcon is the only dedicated LPG car made in Australia, but Holden also offers factory-fitted HSVi “aftermarket” dual-fuel LPG systems for its Commodore and Ute.

Mr Fitzgerald said Orbital believed 175,000 cars would be sold in 2015 and that 80,000 would be factory-built.

“A range of Australian and Korean makers will be offering LPG vehicles by then,” he said.

Orbital is developing the LPG system for the next E-Gas Falcon and has decided to opt for a liquid-injection LPG system, as this gives better combustion than the old fumigator system.

Mr Fitzgerald said the company was also developing a series of kits for aftermarket conversions of cars up to five years old.

Orbital would do extensive calibration testing so that customers would not have to take their cars back to the converter for “final” adjustments and so that the converted car would have driveability equivalent to an unleaded petrol car.

“The driveability needs to be absolutely seamless,” he said.

The seminar was also told that the use of compressed natural gas (CNG) had made little headway in road transport because it placed too many hurdles in front of the customers wanting to use it.

Rare Consulting managing director Mark McKenzie said that despite 20 years of effort, the promotion of CNG as a transport fuel was not working.

He said Australia needed to start making the switch because projections showed that, by 2030, Australia would need to import 80 per cent of its oil needs as local fields were depleted and demand grew.

Mr McKenzie said it was not simply a case of vehicle operators waiting for fuel distributors to invest in filling stations and operators of filling stations waiting for more CNG vehicles to hit the roads.

“That’s the chicken and egg argument, and it’s irrelevant,” he said.

He told the seminar the cost of adopting CNG was too high, even if the running costs were low.

Changes in technology forced operators to depreciate their vehicles quickly, making them less profitable, and high oil prices made hybrid drivetrains more competitive.

“CNG is not the only alternative technology.”

But the biggest hurdle was the difficulty of switching from diesel to CNG, he said.

“A normal fleet procurement takes about three months. The planning horizon for adopting CNG is more like 18 months to two years.”

Customers had to organise the engine technology, their gas supply, the manufacture of gas tanks to fit their particular trucks and the aftermarket service and support.

And, to top it off, the customer had to wear all the risk involved, Mr McKenzie said. The operators generally had to organise the service support away from base and, to top it off, customers were often used as guinea pigs by suppliers without being told.

“The CNG market needs a whole new paradigm.”

He said he was heartened at the Brisbane truck show to see four truck-makers release gas-powered models – a development that would make it easier to switch.

Mr McKenzie also rejected claims that the federal government should do something to further promote the use of CNG as a transport fuel.

He was previously the national facilitator for the environment and water resources departments’ alternative fuels conversion program, which had a budget of $80 million.

He said only a fraction of that money was drawn down by truck operators to make the switch to gas.

“There is a certain wariness in Canberra about the promotion of gas as a transport fuel,” he said.

[Burnout]

Porter is now a freelance industry writer - it's to his advantage to write a 'filler' like this.

[tweeked]

Once oil hits a certain point other options become cheaper. So we dont have to worry about $5 a litre petrol because if ethanol is $3 a litre at that stage, petrol will not sell.

Humans are only happy if they think something is coming to end the world

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Iphido

SNIP - I can see massive panics in the USA. They are very suseptable to it, economically, socially, politically. So is Australia, but I think Australia will play it cool for several reasons SNIP

Didn't think the yanks were any more panicky than the rest of us?!

While to begin with this is going to be great. Its going to get nasty in the long run. As those with big starving eyes look at us.

It may not come as a full scale war, or mass civil disobence. It may just be agressive politics and companys.

Okay, 'great', 'nasty', and 'starving eyes'. Tells national TV audience; eat my siiic oil mayyyte.

I can see mass hysteria in the USA tho.

This was 9/11 you were watching....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

They are boarder line insane already. Look at floridah. They are panic buying, having fist fights infront of stores when a tropic storm approaches. With so many people near boarder line anyway, a big shake like that will turn it into a land Mad Max (the first one then as things get progressively worse in the the later ones).

LOL @ borderline insane:-))) Have a visitor from the US who arrived here just today in fact, I'll check to see if she's a nut or not, I must admit though, she's *not* from floridah, does that matter?? Must be those old Cuban's!

My old doctor quit Australia a few months back, damn nice fella, went back to West Virginia, hope he kept his mind.

Thing is no one knows for sure how its going to turn out. Could be a small bump, we innovate and get over it, could actually be a really positive thing. Could start a series of wars (already begun?) and eventually world wide chaos.

Yes, I agree, war is a positive thing; drivers of the SS Commodore VX-VY Series can sign up first. (It'll knock off those glary front fogs).

Theres a reason why it was seriously suggested Australia buys F-22's ($120mill each!) over 100 F-35's, ~50 M1A1 tanks but not decommission the current Leopards, heavy lifters to move it all around, add to that our ability to make navy ships and Submarines. We have increase the size of our army to near full scale war levels. They aren't the only ones, theres a bit of a world wide arms race on at the moment too.

Umm, the F22's are NOT for sale to US allies, UNLESS Congress approves, that is unlikely. I agree with Congress, it shouldn't. Yes, of course I'd love to them but.

THIS will fill you with joy:-) Pdf.
http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pdfs...eport_2009.pdf

Governments giving out $2k cash for LPG.

I want my, I want my LPG (and $2,000)!!!

Looking at how this is playing out. I think there is a good chance this could get very serious. Governments don't go on spending sprees defence wise if theres no risk. They don't just give $2k out to citizens just to help them along. The police are converting to a LPG fleet, as are government and some defence vehicals. All the signs they know something we don't.

I've seen this guy before, he's brilliant! I'll tell you what, we'll gladly give northern Australia away, comprising NT, Northern SA, Eastern QLD down to a point 27 direct kilometers north of Brisbane GPO.

We'll negotiate WA, and if the invading army is nice to us, we'll consider giving them Tasmania. We'll offer ACT, but that will only anger them I suggest.

Originally Posted by Mark s

Wasn't there mass hysteria in the US and other western countries in the late 70's & early 80's where the fuel supply was all but gone? I remember as a kid fuel rationing, and huge line up to get fuel, and even there you were only allowed a certain amount.

The ARAB OIL EMBARGO of 1974. This delightful action resulted in the US Federal government immediately imposing a nationwide 55mph (88km/h) National Maximum Speed Limit (NMSL) in order to save fuel.

President Clinton rescinded it back in 1995. Good President, pat pat pat.

The Feds would check up on States that were lax in enforcing it, and those States that did not have a high enforcement rate would have federal road funding withheld.

Once removed, States reverted back to their speed laws in force prior to 1974. Montana reverted to its old 'Reasonable & Prudent' allowance (no maximum limit for cars). Overturned later in favour of 75Mph daytime limits, silly buggers should have posted speed derestriction signage (//) instead, (Albert, I did tell you so) would have overcome MUTCD (federal) signage issues:-)

Originally Posted by Aussie_Geo

End of Civilisation Stuff??? Hardly anyone remeber the Y2K bug???

Don't laugh, I'm still infected by it, dang balls scratch like crazy!

Originally Posted by uranium_death

SNIP - Bugger it, I'm moving to Mexico.

Don't do that, you'll develop an overwhelming desire to sneak across the border to the US, or Aztlan. You might even get to make an appearance on Borderwatch!

[mik]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

a load of hokey if you ask me

another vote for a load of hokey....

[Mark351]

There's still plenty of oil, but it's the mathematics of the cost of extracting it versus the cost of selling it. There are reserves too deep to drill to to make a profit, and there's other resources, such as Canadas oil sands- in fact, Canada are second only to Saudia Arabia, and have reserves beyond 2020. Then there's shale oil, which is environmentally damaging to mine, but it's there.

It's a numbers game, and it'll be around while someone profits.