P plate drivers and 0 BAC

Grum · 29-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Ok after reading all the threads on P plate drivers I have one gripe that hasn’t been discussed and I wanted to get the forums opinions on it.
I am a P plate driver (NSW p2) and drive a high powered vehicle, which most would say I am in the high risk category. I do however consider myself a reasonable driver and mature, I am 22. I have completed two defensive driver courses, one paid for by my parent’s insurance company, the other paid for out of my own pocket when I bought my current vehicle.

Last Saturday I was at a Ute show in Penrith. The plan was to get there at 8:30am and party on with my mates and sleep out the back of the pub in the Ute. My girlfriend was going to join me after she finished work.
So I started drinking at about 9am, nothing like a few breaky beers to start the day. I had probably had about seven beers by lunch time and a good feed from the R.F.S. bbq when my girlfriend called and said she’s had a few things come up and needed to go home after work and asked if I would be able to come down. She finished at 6pm and we agreed to meet at hers at 7pm. I then stopped drinking at 12:30pm knowing I needed to be at 0 BAC so I could drive. I am also a big bloke and can hold my alcohol well but I would never knowingly drive if I wasn’t 0, mainly due to the fear that if anything went wrong I wouldn’t be covered by my insurance.

At about 6pm there was a police car and two officers at the pub for an unrelated manner. After they had dealt with that and were back at their car I approached them and asked them if I could be breathalysed. They said “no way, we are not going to, we will only breathalyse you if we see you driving on the road”. I then asked if there was a police station near by that I could be breathalysed at, as my local police station has done it for me in the past. They then said “no way mate, no police station would breathalyse you”.
So I was forced to drive to my girlfriends place (80km) without knowing if I was legal to drive (but 99% sure I was).

So this is my gripe. I don’t want this to turn into a police bashing thread but we do in a way pay their salary and expenses so why shouldn’t they be made to provide a RBT if asked? They are quite proud of advertising that every police car in NSW can now stop you for an RBT. This appears to me to be another example of the police (on the governments behalf) not wanting to prevent crime but rather profit from it afterwards.

Cheers Greg

**Polyal** · 29-11-2006, 11:36 AM

Um yeah that is BS.

BUT ,if they breatho'd you and it showed 0, and then you drove and for whatever reason 0.0001 came up on a random test there could be trouble.

In saying that surely someone else could have picked her up perhaps?

GXL078 · 29-11-2006, 11:39 AM

I am surprised they didn't wait until you drove off and pull you up down the road to breath test you. That's what they would do in a country town.

bArNsY · 29-11-2006, 11:47 AM

Get a personal breathalyser, or don't drink at all if you know your going to drive!
Its hard but I did it for three years when I was on my Ps in Vic.

Or you can just buy a set of mouth pieces, that way it won't cost the police anything to test you, but still, they can be a pain and say no!

Grum · 29-11-2006, 11:47 AM

Polyal- I didn't pick her up, i needed to meet her at her house.

xcgxl- I made a point of not letting them know what i was driving, just incase they really wanted to be *******s. however i didnt see a single police car the whole trip.

Quicklier · 29-11-2006, 11:51 AM

It does sound all backwards, but I've heard it happen before.
Be careful if you plan to sleep in your ute/panel van when you're 'unsafe to drive' as you can still be charged with drink driving if you're sitting in the drivers seat with the keys in your pocket. I get quite nervous when I see guys playing with 'the stez' in their car when they've had a few. Keys in the ignition, beer in hand... All that has to happen is a car stop and perform an RBT.

I think it has something to do with 'being in control of a vehicle whilst over the legal BAC limit'.

Sorry to take off topic, it stinks that you couldn't reassure yourself at the time.

EA2BA · 29-11-2006, 11:54 AM

I thought most the cops had the talk into this style breathalyser's now, so they just have to turn it on and instant answer.

**Mechan1k** · 29-11-2006, 11:54 AM

No need for mouth pieces ... RBT uses a "talk into" unit (count from 1 to 10).
It is crap though that they refused an RBT to test that you were "safe".

But as mentioned ... if at a car event ... and you have driven there ... I wouldn't drink.
Although you were going to stay and crash the night in your vehicle ... a change of plans can arise (like it did in your case) ... and then you are caught out.

EA2BA · 29-11-2006, 11:56 AM

Quickler I think even if you are the only person in the car, front seat,back seat, or in the boot, they will test and charge you, as you have intent to drive, keys with you in the car, bloody stupid stretch of the law.

bArNsY · 29-11-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicklier

I get quite nervous when I see guys playing with 'the stez' in their car when they've had a few. Keys in the ignition, beer in hand... All that has to happen is a car stop and perform an RBT.

This includes private properties, and is not limited to cars, but many modes of transport including horseback!

:

4.9 EF Futura · 29-11-2006, 12:00 PM

The cops will NEVER provide a breath test like that... with a few minor exceptions.

I assume it's a liability issue. Breath tests are not definative. If you've ever had the pleasure of being with someone who is being charged for DUI, you'll know that a blood test is the definative answer.

Or... let's say you get a 0.00 BAc from them, walk outside, scull a bottle of vodka, jump in the car, get pulled over "Oh, but officer XYZ gave me the all clear"

So if the (potentially inaccurate) breath test gives you the all clear... and then you are done DUI (or worse - you're involved in an accident) then the police are going to have questions to answer. They dont like answering, they like to ask them

Quote:

This appears to me to be another example of the police (on the governments behalf) not wanting to prevent crime but rather profit from it afterwards.

Money doesnt grow on trees. Breathalyser tests cost money (3 or 4 bucks per test). They cant be wasting money testing people who may or may not end up driving - the scarce resources of the police should be focussed on testing people who ARE driving.

"Oh but its only 4 bucks"

Yes - multiplied by the number of people who will want a free test. "Oh, im still over... no worries, i'll be back in an hour for another test".

You need to take a position:

- to administer voluntary tests
- to not administer voluntary tests

You cant just pick and choose who you will test and who you wont.

It's your responsibility to make sure you are within the allowable BAC limit for your licence.

Tell your girlfriend to get a cab next time!! It's just not worth the risk. Imagine if you lost your licence???

MITCHAY · 29-11-2006, 12:01 PM

It was probably because they get some people just trying to "blow a record".
Regardless they still should of RBT'd you. Isn't prevention better than consequences.

Why don't you forward this to the police or some authority and see what bites. If you get a less than desirable response, turn to the media.

**Polyal** · 29-11-2006, 12:03 PM

The only thing that used to erk me about being 0 and on your P's was no beer/wine at lunch or dinner. Only one of course.

bArNsY · 29-11-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

No need for mouth pieces ... RBT uses a "talk into" unit (count from 1 to 10).

: what if you had a disorder that prevented you from counting from 1-10

sorry bit off topic
ever seen someone with cerebral palsy get charged with drunk and disorderly! I have, its a ****en disgrace and the guy hadn't drank a thing! They realised when he was back at the station the stuff up.

MITCHAY · 29-11-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

The only thing that used to erk me about being 0 and on your P's was no beer/wine at lunch or dinner. Only one of course.

All this time I was driving assuming my limit was 0.02. Never even heard of the 0 until a few weeks ago in another discussion about P platers.

Now I'm 0.05 though but don't drive after drinking still because my car can be a bit unpredictable.

**Polyal** · 29-11-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

All this time I was driving assuming my limit was 0.02. Never even heard of the 0 until a few weeks ago in another discussion about P platers.

Now I'm 0.05 though but don't drive after drinking still because my car can be a bit unpredictable.

Yeap not worth the fuss at all.

Another situation you have to watch is what happened to me last week (although Im off my P's).

Have a big night and then driving the next morning. You just dont know.

MITCHAY · 29-11-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yeap not worth the fuss at all.

Another situation you have to watch is what happened to me last week (although Im off my P's).

Have a big night and then driving the next morning. You just dont know.

Usually I don't wake up the next day and certainly don't drive. If I lose my licence I will have to sell my car so can't risk it at all.

photn · 29-11-2006, 12:18 PM

i can understand the policemen's point of view on this matter. and i can also see your point of view.

Why didnt they test me...the cop was probably thinking that some young jok wanted a test for no apparant reason, as it could of been a dare or a prank or sumthing rather. in regards to cost. they really dont care about a RBT test. wow a set of batteries for an electronis device.....

Dude i believe it all depends on the cops attitude at the time. im sure if you explained t him that you believe to be intoxicated and under the influence of alchahol and are wish to drive and are concerned about you BAC im sure the officer may have tested you.

Grum · 29-11-2006, 12:18 PM

Again to the people that don't read, I didnt need to pick her up. I needed to be elsewhere with my ute.

I had waited 6hrs before driving and like I said I was 99% sure I was safe. I have in the past had 6-7 rum cans over two hours and an hour later blown 0.

I sleep in my ute all the time, as do many of my friends. We were planning on sleeping out the back of the pub, this had been ok'd by the management as it was part of the ute show and they provide accommodation anyway.

I would feel quite confidant that I could fighting any DUI charge when I have evidence I was tucked up in the bed in the back of the ute (complete with XR8 ute bed sheets), the police would have more luck charging me with having sex in a public place hahahaha.

I find it very funny that people are winging about the minor expense of testing people that are responsible enough to ask for it. These wingers are the same people who are probably complaining about all the restrictions being enforced and the constant p-plate fatalities.

I also agree that there may be people dumb enough to get tested then drive away and have a few more drinks, but this test in no way should guarantee your sobriety. It is just peace of mind for people who try do the right thing.

**Polyal** · 29-11-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grum

Again to the people that don't read, I didnt need to pick her up. I needed to be elsewhere with my ute.

Where and what you were doing makes no difference, if you are over thats it. If they didn't want to test you then they have their reasons. You drank, you weren't sure so you shouldn't have driven.

You did, didn't get done: this time.

Situation sucks, but thems the brakes.

Grum · 29-11-2006, 12:30 PM

Polyal, how ignorant can you be? Are you saying you have never consumed alcohol or any alcohol laced food? That is really the only way you can be 100% sure you are not over the limit. Asthma puffers can actually put a p-plate driver over their limit.

Most people drink and drive, its just doing them at the same time that is the problem. Without testing how do you have any idea what your BAC is?

**Polyal** · 29-11-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grum

Polyal, how ignorant can you be? Are you saying you have never consumed alcohol or any alcohol laced food? That is really the only way you can be 100% sure you are not over the limit. Asthma puffers can actually put a p-plate driver over their limit.

Most people drink and drive, its just doing them at the same time that is the problem. Without testing how do you have any idea what your BAC is?

Mate it is very simple, if you are on your P's then no alcohol, thats it.

If you cant deal with it then expect consequences.

And for a P plater to be driving a car that stands out to do so is even more stupid.

Make any excuse you want, it wont hold up.

Of course I drink, LOL, but not in excess when I know I have to drive, or might have to drive.

photn · 29-11-2006, 12:37 PM

im one of those people that seldomly drinks but i prefer to be the Designated Driver. i enjoy going out for a drink with my GF but always catch the curtosy bus home. anyway back on topic. has the question been answered??

bArNsY · 29-11-2006, 12:43 PM

I think so, police are not required to offer free breathe tests to whom ever asks!

Driver education in Victoria is very poor if people think it is OK to drink and then drive later in the day especially on their Ps! I am no angel, but surely this is common sense!

bob^ · 29-11-2006, 12:45 PM

Or they have driven the morning after a huge night...

Grum · 29-11-2006, 12:46 PM

Polyal & barnsy; I had waited six (6) hours before I even considered driving. How long should I have waited? Three days? A week? Hell maybe I should never be allowed to drive again!

You’re missing my point, I did do the right thing. But I also tried to make sure I was doing the right thing and this was basically made impossible due to a particular police officers attitude. This is stupid. More breath testing is only going to save lives.

**Polyal** · 29-11-2006, 01:01 PM

I completely get your point. But if you want to be sure buy yourself a breatho machine. At the end of the day it is your responsibility to make sure you are fine to drive.

Same as you mate, I was drinking last weekend until 2AM, went to bed, the got up at 9AM and drove at 9:30AM. I thought I was fine, breatho might have said otherwise Im not sure. But I took the "risk".

There must be a very good reason why the officer said no, its not like they dont care.

Not many people, if any, will know the real answer, best to email a police station or go down and ask a different station.

photn · 29-11-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grum

Polyal & barnsy; I had waited six (6) hours before I even considered driving. How long should I have waited? Three days? A week? Hell maybe I should never be allowed to drive again!

You’re missing my point, I did do the right thing. But I also tried to make sure I was doing the right thing and this was basically made impossible due to a particular police officers attitude. This is stupid. More breath testing is only going to save lives.

just to let you know after i did my RCG and RSA course i found out that alchohol will remain in your system for 48 hours regardless of your ability to get a 0.00 reading.

**Mechan1k** · 29-11-2006, 01:13 PM

Look .. if you want to be 100% certain you are 0%.

Pay to get an Interlock system put on your vehicle .. not that you'd want to anyway.
If you are over .... the car is immobilised until you are back down to 0.

The auto electrician I go to is one of only a handful that install these systems ... and do the monthly testing as well.

I'd hate to have my car fitted with one.

tasker1986 · 29-11-2006, 01:14 PM

I have had the exact same thing happen to me and to be honest i was quiet offended when they did this but i also walked down the road (10min walk from where i was) on AFL grand final day and asked for a bretho at the cop shop, they persisted to say no and than finally giving me this reason. We can not provide you with a blood alcohol reading and on the basis that if your BAC is normal now and later on over the limit of our testing at the station you could legally proceed to take this further although it is unlikely you would win a courtcase it would raise questions onto why we didnt make you waite a further 30minutes for another test. In fairness i think its smart they didnt do it in the cop car. But when i was at the police station i had to sign a stat dec to say if i was pulled over etc i wouldnt use my previous reading against any other readings for that day. So i got my BAC reading and was wayyyy over and didnt drive in the end. But yeah its lliabillity reasons

: