Ignition Retard.... HOW??

robbo_yobbo · 29-06-2007, 04:49 PM

I Need a way to retard the ignition timing by a few degrees.
I dont want it permanently retarded, just temporarily at the flick of a switch, so flashing the ECU is out.

Does anyone know if the unichip can handle this?

I dont want an entire standalon ignition system if it can be avoided, just a piggy back system to give me a temporary retard of the ECU's signal, which can be switched on and off on the fly.

What are my options?

GK · 29-06-2007, 05:27 PM

RY, why are you doing this? LOL!

GK

The Monty · 29-06-2007, 05:44 PM

Noossss!!!!

Davo3460 · 29-06-2007, 06:38 PM

Why would u do that

redef · 29-06-2007, 06:39 PM

i would say edit would be the go. -2 degree per 50 shot.
only takes couple of minutes to flash. dont think uni chip can do that or any other system.

xr8ute · 29-06-2007, 08:30 PM

Edit.....either CAPA/SCT or Sniper.

The CAPA Eliminator chip will literally give you what you are looking for i.e. different tune at the flick of a switch.

trick_xd · 29-06-2007, 08:39 PM

You dont realy need to do any of that .

if you want to run up to 150 hp shot I retarded my set up 5* and thats it ....

I am about ready to do the same thing now to my EL .. and I know it works .. I have had it in my EA for 3 - 4 mths now and worked a treat all 2 bottle fulls ....
I am about to hook it up as a 2 stage kit 50hp from idle and 150 from 2,200 rpm till red line ... thats 200hp all up .. it the motor hangs in there with that then I will put it onto my good motor ..... THEN HERE COMES 11SEC QTRS

**Mechan1k** · 29-06-2007, 08:42 PM

Problem is with EA and EL ... you have a dizzy ... easy to change.

AU uses a coilpack ... and you can't change it unless the tune is changed in the PCM ... via EDIT.

xr8ute · 29-06-2007, 08:44 PM

EA and EL let you retard (base) timing via the dizzy.

AU has a crank trigger-wheel and coil packs, so not so easy without either editing base timing in the EEC, or rigging up an adjustable crank trigger bracket.

EDIT: ^^^^ what he said

trick_xd · 29-06-2007, 08:46 PM

arrhhh yes I did not know if he had a dizy or coil pack

if coil pack then you have no real good option from what I know ... but you can run colder plugs.... I run a .7 you could try a .5

GK · 29-06-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trick_xd

You dont realy need to do any of that .

if you want to run up to 150 hp shot I retarded my set up 5* and thats it ....

I am about ready to do the same thing now to my EL .. and I know it works .. I have had it in my EA for 3 - 4 mths now and worked a treat all 2 bottle fulls ....
I am about to hook it up as a 2 stage kit 50hp from idle and 150 from 2,200 rpm till red line ... thats 200hp all up .. it the motor hangs in there with that then I will put it onto my good motor ..... THEN HERE COMES 11SEC QTRS

You are one sick puppy! LOL!

GK

trick_xd · 30-06-2007, 07:12 PM

I already have a tough motor that is around the 180 - 185 rwkw (13.7 @ 105mph) and I am going to chase down the JMM drag car and wave as I go past...
I don't want to kill my good motor so this week or next I will be putting in a completely STOCK EF/EL motor into my EL and running it with the nos kit from my EA.
if it lasts as a 50hp from idle and 150 at revs then I will be upping them bit by bit till it blows ... then I know thats where to stop and put in my Good motor again.

I must make a thread soon about my car and mods lol

robbo_yobbo · 30-06-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Edit.....either CAPA/SCT or Sniper.

The CAPA Eliminator chip will literally give you what you are looking for i.e. different tune at the flick of a switch.

Standard flash is out as it needs to be instantanious, but Id never heard of the eliminator chip, Might have to take a look at that one, sounds promissing, cheers.

Casper · 30-06-2007, 08:49 PM

why does it have to be instantaneous? You would only ever use it at the track so go to the track, flash in the tune for it and use it to race. You can still drive with it retarded, it just wont have the same overall power as it does when its flashed to the NA tune.
The only reason you'd need it to be an instant change is if you were going to use it "on the fly" and the only place to do that is the street.. and that would not be recommended.

robbo_yobbo · 30-06-2007, 08:58 PM

Launching wont be under nitrous, and I dont want it to be retarded until it kicks in. I want to make the setup as 'foolproof' as possible, so as to not take any chances on engine damage. If I have a setup that can be switched on the fly, I get full advance under standard fuel and the retard automaticaly when the n20 solenoid is activated.
Just seems like a much better way to go to me.

On that though, I seen the Eliminator is designed for the E series and needs "cuircuit board bridging" for the AU's, whats actualy involved in that, is it just just a matter of splicing into the wiring harness, or is it more complicated than that.

Can these things operate the VCT?

trick_xd · 30-06-2007, 11:53 PM

what are you going to use as a extra fuel source .... run another line ?

robbo_yobbo · 01-07-2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trick_xd

what are you going to use as a extra fuel source .... run another line ?

same line, but with a second inline booster pump and surgetank ( just to keep it safe and upgradable for later on down the track)

**Stav** · 01-07-2007, 10:41 AM

Hi mate if you want to have instantaneous ignition retard I recommend you cut the knock sensor wire and check how much retard that gives you.If it gives enough then wire a switch under the dash and it should work on demand by disengaging the signal. I am quite certain that disconnecting the knock sensor gives max retard of 14 degrees as a safety net but please check this first with a timing light and let us know how it goes.

The other thing you may want to experiment with is a variable resistor to adjust timing retard..worth a try.

trick_xd · 01-07-2007, 01:45 PM

You know a lot of stuff about different stuff Stav .

Thats a good idea in what he says and you will have to have it variable as you will only need to go back about 5* - 8* right up to 150hp

I thought of "T" piecing into the return line and to a adjustable fuel reg and gauge and run from there to your foggier kit .. if you have the nozzles that you can run fuel and nos into at the same time that will be the best for you to do . and plumb it into your snorkel about 8 - 10 inches from your throttle body as that will give it time to mix with the air and go to each cylinder as even as you can.

robbo_yobbo · 01-07-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Hi mate if you want to have instantaneous ignition retard I recommend you cut the knock sensor wire and check how much retard that gives you.If it gives enough then wire a switch under the dash and it should work on demand by disengaging the signal. I am quite certain that disconnecting the knock sensor gives max retard of 14 degrees as a safety net but please check this first with a timing light and let us know how it goes.

The other thing you may want to experiment with is a variable resistor to adjust timing retard..worth a try.

Do you mean to put the resistor between the nock sensoer and ECU?

I read somewhere that if the ECU got a knock signal that it kept retarding (at 4deg at a time) untill there was no knock, then advanced again in 1 degree increments.

If that was correct by dissconnecting the knock sensor youd get the max retard (which unfortunateley too much), but by putting a resistor in, it would keep retarding in 4 degree increments (as the resistor is acting like a knock signal) untill it hits the max retard.

Am I wrong? I realy have no idea how the ignition side of things is processed by the ECU.

adjusting the crank angle sensor signal I guess would work to fool the ECU into delaying the spark, but what else would be affected by this?? would this not delay the injector pulse or cause any other detrimental side-effects??

**Stav** · 03-07-2007, 06:12 PM

Dunno mate.You can give it a try and see what happens.If it works it is heck of alot cheaper than an ignition controller and all it will take is time and 20 dollars tops.
Thanks Trick xd your pretty cluey too.It is someting to give it a go.If you can possibly emulated or reduce the severity of the knock signal then you will probably be halfway there.

robbo_yobbo · 04-07-2007, 10:34 AM

No probs mate, We'll see how it goes I guess, cheers.

Jack91 · 03-08-2016, 07:23 PM

What happened with this? Nitrous too hard on au without aftermarket ecu?

mcfly94 · 06-09-2016, 10:29 PM

The MSD-DIS4 has retard unit built activated by 12v+ (so NOS solenoid) and can be up to 30* with programmable delay, the unit is about 1k and then need two tach adapaters which i think are about $130 each, i will be going down this route, so that timing is only taken out when is NOS is spraying.