Building a First Home

[stazza]

I'm looking to build my first home with the next few months, and am just looking at blocks at the moment. I have my eye on a nice 826sqm, 20m wide block and am just wondering if you guys on here that have built a home or several homes, if theres any general advice you guys can offer, possibly some tips etc...

I wanted a wide block as I want a house laid out wide, not a big fan of narrow blocks or houses. I've been looking at 2 Dale Alcock house designs that I'd like to check out when I fly back home next month. Anyone dealt with Dale Alcock?

Cheers.

[Crazy Dazz]

Location
Location
Location
Don't skimp on the block. Spending an extra $20k on your block will be returned many times over in the future. Remember, land appreciates over time, buildings depreciate.

Be VERY careful with Dale Alcock. They TALK a good game, but in reality are no better than any other builder.
Never believe anything a builder tells you, unless it is in writing in your contract. Eg: Dale Alcock made a big deal of the fact that they used "Verti-core" instead of "speedi-brick," they even had an exposed wall in their display home as a selling point. Then guess what they used in our house? Because the contract said "Verti-core or equivalent."

Beware of builders' lists of "standard features." Unless they are very specific and included in the contract, they aren't worth the paper they're written on. "Full size vanities" aren't, the "Excelsior 2000 New Millennium Plus" is a special cheap door made only for cheap builders, and the "Prestige Range" is the cheapest tapware you can buy.

Make sure your housing design takes full advantage of every square inch of your block, don't waste an inch down your dead sides. Push out walls, or make the whole house wider. And don't buy their nonsense about extra costs, "space" is the cheapest thing you can add when building.

Watch the building process like a hawk. (Retired Dad's or FIL's are excellent for this.) Document everything with photos.

[Ross 1]

Research multiple builders online. See what other peoples experiences were, we used Mervac in Brisbane. Happy with them but you have to have written contracts on what is included. Take your time choosing your paint colour, carpet etc, it cost if you change your mind. Do not sign change over until they have fixed any problems, do not believe any builder that says it will be done tomorrow! Have money set aside for a lawyer to have a look over any contracts you do not understand, and for an independent builder to come with you on final inspection. You will be excited on seeing your first house and will miss stuff. They will fix stuff quickly as they do not get the final draw down from the bank til you sign off on it. Good luck, it is a major undertaking and the better prepared you are the smoother it will go

[Smoke Pursuit]

Good luck and enjoy. Just make sure you put a triple car garage in the mail dwelling. ;)

[Charliewool]

Can't comment on Dale Alcock, being in Vic. never heard of them..
BUT... The rest of Crazy Dazz's advice is absolutely SPOT ON!
Especially the watching bit!
My advice is.... Buy your block (you are then totally independent of any potential home & land package trap..
Next... Do the rounds around new houses being built".. Look HEAPS!
Ask around these new estates about the builders.. The subbies on site are a brilliant guide to how good a particular builder is..
Google is also your friend here!.. As is the homeone forum.
( http://forum.homeone.com.au/ )
Do NOT fall for a spec-home, or anything from a mass volume builder!
Get a solid idea of your design and find a respected architect to take you through your ideas.

[Mont5.0]

We have been in our new house 5 weeks now and are really happy with the build. We built with edan brae homes. The best advice I can give is get on side with your S.S from the start. We had daily contact with ours through out our build and any issues which arose where promptly seen to there and then. Enjoy the experience and try not to stress to hard. We found taking out a lot of the basics like flooring saved heaps and were done better after handover. We are currently doing the landscaping and fences now.

[nstg8a]

We are going through this at the moment, have to say I'm sick of three hour meetings with the builder lol. And we haven't even turned any dirt yet.

We got turned off the big project home builders pretty quick, we went for a builder that does it all in house, has all his own builders, sparkies plumbers etc on staff. No subbies.

We get key for the site straight away, and we are encouraged to pop in whenever we want to check progress. Once we sign final contracts next week then the price is fixed, can't go up, can't go down. Lawyers already ok'ed the deal.

We were trying to do everything for 400k, so far it's looking like it's gonna be 10k over that, plus we have another 30k of extra stuff to get done if an inheritance comes through on time lol.

Land prices here are getting stupid fast. We were looking at having to pay 200k for a 420ish sq metre block, but we ended up finding one a bit further out of all the new subdivisions, 175k for 820sq.

[Charliewool]

AND... Document EVERY conversation by email.
If you have a "chat" or a phone call with the builder about ANYTHING.. confirm it by email!
AND insist on a reply!
It cost me $6000 to replace a spa bath, that was totally NOT the one we asked for, and a fortune in wrong colour floorboards, through an Ï said, he said, you said" verbal with my builder!

[buggerlugs]

We have been in our new home 20 years next month. And it still ain't bloody finished yet.........

[BlueBear]

I would also add, talk to the owners of the houses he has built, without the builder being present.
I personally would stay away from the big building companies, a small time, one at a time builder is usually worth waiting for.

Cheers,

[stazza]

Thankyou very much people. I am going to take my time with the house design as I don't want to shell out $250k on a house that doesn't quite have exactly what I want.

At the moment I'm thinking of focusing on getting this block for a decent price.

Also, did I mention the block is next door to my parents place?

They would keep a close eye on the building etc...

Is it pricey to consult with an architect? Can he look at designs of houses from builders that I like and change up certain things?

[Stazza_Brendan]

Really think out the locations of your lights and power points.
We put a power point in the hallway. Easier to vacuum 4 rooms without unplugging all the time.
Also put one right at the end of the gargage beside the roller door. I can have the gerni out on the driveway without using an extension cord.

We built a house that was already built as a display home so it was really good to see how much space we had in certain rooms, how much lighting was needed to light up the rooms. We also decided to expand the patio area to double the size as seeing the original size in person it felt small.

Any additions youd like, get them done when building. We added double showerheads in ensuite from the beginning and it was only an extra $250 plus the showerheads we picked. Imagine the cost of adding this in years later when tiles would have to be ripped up.
We also had the whole house air conditioned when building. This gave us more options on where to place them as the pipework for the split sytems was installed before the wall sheeting went up.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by stazza

Is it pricey to consult with an architect? Can he look at designs of houses from builders that I like and change up certain things?

Do you want a normal suburban box or something tailored to you?

My architect's fee is $26,800 inc GST on my current remote location build.

That is 8.8% of the construction cost.

For that price he finds the builder, does all the negotiations, permits, site visits, shopping trips to pick taps, vanities, lights etc.

He let us design a house we we wanted then proved to us that we needed his changes to making it whithin our budget and properly proportioned like a work of art, no wasted space, storage, light, thermal efficiency...blah blah...blah

An architect will tell you that his fee will easily be saved by the design improvements and lack of wasted space and materials.
Even a 7m wide garage instead of 6 so car doors don't hit etc,,

Some think a good draughtsman is good enough....I don't.

[nuthin' fancy]

Stazza,

You get what you pay for mostly.

You are spending a big lump of money, hasten slowly. The more you know about the process, the less stressful it will be and you'll hopefully avoid problems you would otherwise be forced to live with.

[jpblue1000]

Zilo is on the money.


JP

[silver_xe]

Get your soil tests done before you even go to get building quotes done so as you can be on the same page with each builders foundation costs. Most builders qoute on soil which has a good rating for reactivity, if you have reactive soil you can be up for thousands more. Example our soil was "H" which is highly reactive and our slab cost $16k extra.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by stazza

Is it pricey to consult with an architect? Can he look at designs of houses from builders that I like and change up certain things?

Yes, and Yes
Builders will also quote on your own design. The point is to haggle, haggle, haggle.
Best approach is to find some plans you like, modify and combine to get the one you like, add the features you want, then ask builders to quote.
Normally, as part of a contract, or sometimes even after, there will be a detailed scope of work. This specifies everything. You need to START with one of these, modify it to your standard, and include that when asking builders to quote. Do not get caught in the trap of having agreed a basic price and allowing them to sting you for extras, they'll try to hit you for bogus extra costs.
Do all your homework and research up front. They WILL try and con you "oh you can leave that to your colour interview." Don't fall for it. Choose everything you can before you sign a thing.

[dirtyclevo]

I don't own a home, but growing up my parents bought built two houses. one when i was 12 and later on built another one when i was like 21.

the word of advice i can give you that i notice alot of people dont consider is. ROOM!

Room around the house, how many housing estates do you drive through where the houses are built nearly within the limits of there blocks. about 1 metre either side, they seem to fit the biggest house on the block as they can.

And as quoted before get the soil test, alot of housing estates are now developed on reclaimed swamps and land once labelled as unsuitable for development. i dont know how they can do this these days, but its seems a bit suss. hence all these houses with sinking foundations and cracking walls etc..

[Crazy Dazz]

Keep in mind that Stazza is in WA, and we build houses differently over here.
I think historically bricks were cheap, structural steel expensive, and softwood frames would be eaten before you got the roof on. Different now, but the precedent sticks.

Few Perth architects will touch a basic suburban home, unless you are going upscale or some eco-monstrosity.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by stazza

Also, did I mention the block is next door to my parents place?

So you're single and plan to remain that way for a long time?

In all seriousness, if you are single avoid a house like the plague. Either stay living at home or buy an apartment. If you want to INVEST in real-estate, then go for something old on a good block as close to the city as you can get.

If the thought of cohabiting with a female is anywhere on the horizon, them living next door to your mother will go down like an unflushable ****.

[ILLaViTaR]

If it's for investment find a portable home they're generally free to remove (will cost 35k to relocate and setup/council planning etc). If you're living in it and in all cases really make sure the block doesn't have an easement, underground streams, rock requiring excavation or any other zoning restriction that may turn the project into a money pit.

Not much experience building a home myself but it can end up costing a lot more if you self-manage (ie trying to save money) than it would just to pay a developer for one of $120k upfront basic units (where they organize/are liable all the tradesman). I've heard so many horror stories regarding tradies bailing out unpredictably last minute (no matter how many times you confirm it with them..) and leaving the client 3-5k down here one example if a task involves 2 independent trade companies and one bails out on the 11th hour whilst the other arrives with 10 labourers ready to work on 100k per year, and you have to pay to sit on your front yard smoking cigarettes because the other party bailed and they're unable to do the work... too bad you've already hired them it's not their fault at all and you have to pay them. Unless you can get it all done by the one crew from what I've heard I'd definitely bite the bullet and just get one of those 120k stock units or relative home or be ready for a lot of lengthy vcat disputes. Even heard of people buying homes and having their deeds stonewalled (despite comprehensively confirming) and being 3k out of pocket because they've booked the moving truck, therefore have to pay and rehire it again. So many things I'd definitely have a little bank roll or something set aside to account for unpredictable expenses.

One golden rule is land grows and buildings depreciate therefore I'd personally try and get the biggest block possible within your means and with prospects for good reliable capital growth.

I'm sort've planning to get into something similiar next year, perhaps buy a block in ballarat or wodonga or something for around 50k, put a portable home on it for 35k and flip it for 180k and make up to 100k in only 3 months. It's probably not that simple though! If you're going to manage all the tradies yourself then at least make sure there's no more than one company involved in one task. ie dependant on the other.

http://somersoft.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=35

[Jacko*]

Some great advice here already. We built about three years ago. My advice would be choose a local builder, one that has been around for a while, look at some of their previous & current builds. Don't get hung up on gadgets or expensive features, keep it simple as no extras will be in the inclusions. Power points are a necessity think about how you will have your furniture laid out before deciding on power point locations. Avoid house & land packages. Once the build is underway go to the site everyday if possible after the tradies have gone home, inspect their work, if you have any concerns contact your builder straight away & sort it out. I really only had one heated conversation with my builder but we sorted it out. The key is communication you need to be able to contact & speak freely with your builder, their are so many details to be sorted & the builder needs to know what you expect so tell him exactly what you want, & follow up to check afterwards.

[dirtyclevo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

If the thought of cohabiting with a female is anywhere on the horizon, them living next door to your mother will go down like an unflushable ****.

its might go the other way, and then your gf and mother are best buddies and it'll drive you up the wall

[MercurySilver]

dont be put off be big companies and people here telling you that smaller ones are better
its simply not true
we built with a very well known company in sa and it went smoothly enough, few hiccups but youve got to expect that
document everything, get copies of everything, even go to the extreme of recording phone convos on speaker phone if you have to
make sure you get your choices correct becasue once you sign the contract and the cool off period is over if you change your mind on something you will get charged for it

think of the outside as much as the inside
do you have to retain? do a driveway? fences? drainage? which way does the land slope? do you want sheds? can you fit sheds?
what about rainwater?
you seriously need to sit down and make a list of what you require and one for what you want, as there is a big diff between the two

[Pepscobra]

Stazza, we built with Celebration Homes a few years ago.
Very good. They are part of the Dale Alcock group.

What area you looking for your block?

As has been mentioned, be very aware that the home you may be buying is not the same spec as the display home you may visit. All that stuff is extra. Read the standard spec sheet very carefully; you will find that only one light fitting per room is allowed, basic door handles, cheap taps, etc.

We've built a few houses now, last two were with APG, which is also part of Dale Alcock group. You cant go wrong with them, quite a good outfit actually as far as project builders go.

[jpblue1000]

As you can see there are thousands of decisions you need to make, and the more you do before hand the better the outcome may be. However there are many decisions on items, elements and things that you couldn't possibly think of if you are new to the construction game, and could you identify a dodgy, illegal or just poorly designed detail, junction or finish?
An design professionals job is to do all that for you, to design and document a house for you, to bespoke needs with a custom outcome.
Not everyone needs or wants the customised house, or many think its to expensive. But as an Architect having worked in the small house/cheaper domestic end of the market I can guarantee ill save you my fees in design, construction decisions, variation prevention and on site changes.
We have just tendered 37 bespoke homes by different contractors on the same site at 1800 per square meter including design. (Prices will vary across the country) proving architects can produce cheap designs. perhaps not as silly cheap as a mass builder but these were on a steep sloped site, were all bespoke to particular needs and one offs
Think about a design professional and traditional tender if you want something different or have special needs. Its their job to produce the best for you and guide you through the process from first meeting to post defects liability period. good ones have the experience to not miss things costing you int he long run. Think about future maintainability, servicing costs, running costs and even future proofing the design for possible extensions, additions because of kids and or aging parents.
JP

[nstg8a]

One thing we liked about our builder was his inclusions, his display homes are built with his standard inclusions, and any advertised prices are his top inclusions. Any changes actually reduce the cost, because his standard is also his top of the range.

We've been given the price lists for everything, he sources 99.9% through Harvey Norman, and even considering he must be putting his own mark up on everything the prices are still significantly less than what we could buy them at.

Lots of talk unfortunately, but that also means total transparency so far. No surprises.

Even the slab, straight away he said budget an extra 5k for it because it will come back as a h site, and it did.

[zilo]

You know when you drive down a street in Melbourne/Sydney etc and there is a house that makes you stop and look...the form looks balanced...the sympathy with the surroundings...and the RESALE is always higher?

That's an architect designed house.

Even 40 years later they have class that the paper mache' mass built boxes just can't match.

[stazza]

Wow, so much to consider.

Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to oversee the construction every day as I work a 4:1 FIFO roster, but my parents would help out with that, my step Dad is retired so he could definitely come in handy with that.

As far as the relationship side of things - I am single and I'm quite selfish with things I pay for myself, and this no doubt would be an example of that fact. At my age I expect any other girl I meet to either have a house or be in the process of saving/buying. I like a girl with independence.

Also, I'm thinking 4 bedroom for "future proofing", but is 3 bedroom out of the question would you guys think?

I just think me being single, and also not planning for children, ever, that perhaps I could build 3 bedroom and space it out a lot more. I also want to have a room to build a home studio for recording music, but I could always build that in a shed out the back...

[tranquilized]

What Zilo and jpblue are saying about architect designed houses is spot on.

But it's your first house. You won't be using an architect. You should, but like 99.9% of other first home buildiers, you won't.

There are plenty of draftys out there who have a good idea what's going on, trick is finding one.

The one thing I'd stress is orientation - put some thought into which direction your windows are facing - design the whole house around this. A northerly orientation for living areas will provide plenty of light and heat in winter, and with properly designed eaves won't be hot in summer. If this isn't practical look into clear story windows.

I can't believe how many houses I see go up with zero consideration of this, then they'll wonder why their electricity bills are huge after running their lights, heating and air conditioning flat out all year round.