Australian fuel efficiency standards aimed at cutting petrol bills, 'catching up' with US

[Franco Cozzo]

Uh oh, its happening!

Australian fuel efficiency standards aimed at cutting petrol bills, 'catching up' with US

Australia is finally getting efficiency standards for new cars.

The Albanese Government has announced its New Vehicle Efficiency Standard (NVES), and will consult with stakeholders on its preferred model until March 4, 2024 before introducing legislation “as soon as possible”.

It aims for the new rules, which will affect new passenger and light commercial vehicles, to come into effect by January 1, 2025.

Car companies will be given targets for average CO2 emissions per kilometre across their vehicle fleets. Over time this CO2 target will move, forcing companies to provide vehicles with lower or zero emissions to meet stricter targets.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ing-up-with-us

Did Ford Australia has this on their bingo card for 2025? They've got the Hybrid Ranger in the works, this might force them to introduce other cars back to our market to allow the Ranger sales to continue.

Electric Vehice Council has released a statement:



Simon Holmes a Court is looking to lead the teals to make them more strict:

David Pocock supports fuel efficiency standards

The ACT’s independent senator David Pocock has joined the list of those throwing their support behind the government’s efforts to introduce fuel efficiency standards.

The senator said the proposed standards were a good starting point but there was “scope for even more ambition in what the government has announced to ensure a quick catch up and get us on par with countries like the US earlier.”

For years Australia has languished at the back of the pack. The absence of fuel efficiency standards have made us the world’s dumping ground for the most fuel inefficient vehicles.

Our lack of any standards has cost Australians at the bowser, and has damaged the climate due to high emissions.

Finally, we have an opportunity to turn this around. Australians will save up to $1,000 a year as a result of these changes, which will go a long way in the current cost-of-living crisis.

I congratulate the government on taking strong action on what was a key election commitment.

I want to see these new standards implemented as soon as possible and call on the government to bring forward the slated commencement date of 1 July 2025 to at least the end of this year.

Anything less ambitious than what is being proposed will increase the cost of transport and do further damage to our climate.

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...-cuts-albanese

Independents are jumping onboard,

Further details available here:

Cleaner, Cheaper to Run Cars: The Australian New Vehicle Efficiency Standard—Consultation Impact Analysis

2.1.1 Australians don’t currently have access to the same fuel-efficient cars as other jurisdictions…

Globally, and for decades, car manufacturers have been developing new technologies and materials designed to improve the fuel efficiency of cars.

However, the type of vehicles and technologies vary depending on where the vehicle is manufactured and to which market the cars are supplied.

Compared to cars in other jurisdictions, new cars supplied to Australia use more fuel per kilometre.

As outlined above, manufacturers supply cars to the Australian market that aren’t as fuel-efficient as the cars they supply to other markets. Global vehicle manufacturers are not currently offering the same range of fuel-efficient vehicles, including plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV), hybrid electric vehicle (HEV) models, and electric vehicles (EVs), for distribution in Australia.

In 2022, there were 500 EV models available globally, compared to 45 EV models available for sale in Australia. The US, NZ, the EU, the UK, and China all had higher numbers of EV models available than Australia. Compared to other markets, Australia also lacks access to more efficient ICE vehicles (as the average CO2 g/km of different jurisdictions is testament to).

Stakeholders have made clear that the driver for this lack of supply is the absence of a mandatory NVES in Australia, placing Australian consumers at a disadvantage compared to those overseas. For example, in 2021, the former head of VW Group Australia, Michael Bartsch stated that “unless a CO2 target is set [in Australia], manufacturers will continue to prioritise modern markets both for zero emission vehicles and the most efficient conventional engines” x and that “markets where there are punitive fines if they don’t are naturally first in line for zero emission vehicles”.

There's three options on the table at the moment:



https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/de...mpact-analysis

I suspect this will effect 2-bit flogs like Isuzu with their two car range being the DMax and the MUX, Ford Australia can just pull the finger out and offer some of their vehicles to the Australian market that they do for the UK.

[Interceptor]

Yep..... because its all about "reducing petrol costs" and "lowering the cost of living".... when its forcing everyone to spend money on new(er) vehicles that may be utterly unsuitable for what they need them for, nevermind the affordability factor...

[kypez]

Wonder if this causes companies to create silly cars like Aston Martin did with their version of the Toyota IQ (Cygnet or something like that). What happens to the exohtics?

[Franco Cozzo]

What I'm interested in is what is the CO2/KM for the top three selling vehicles of 2023? How do they fit into those charts above, and is this going to significantly change buyer behavior just like the introduction of all the tax incentives did?

Originally Posted by kypez

Wonder if this causes companies to create silly cars like Aston Martin did with their version of the Toyota IQ (Cygnet or something like that). What happens to the exohtics?

If you want to keep selling Ranger and Hilux then you need to offer other cars to bring the average down, though mind you they've set two different targets, one for passenger vehicles and one for Thailand Specials.

We might see the end of the diesel Thailand Special though, look at how ambitious some of those CO2 targets are in the next few years.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What I'm interested in is what is the CO2/KM for the top three selling vehicles of 2023? How do they fit into those charts above, and is this going to significantly change buyer behavior just like the introduction of all the tax incentives did?

This is what we have plugin hybrids. They get you past the first 100 kms where CO2 and other emissions are tested. Then it's ICE all the way but they go under the radar due to the poor standards.

The other emissions standards are coming in 2025 so this lines up and will probably push manufacturers to bring forward polluting cars to get them to 2028 when the grace period expires

[Franco Cozzo]

Even if you look at the passenger vehicle standards they're targeting, current model Fiesta ST (RIP in Australia):

Ford Fiesta ST 200 PS 1.5-litre EcoBoost homologated CO2 emissions 139-153 g/km and homologated fuel efficiency 6.1-6.8 l/100 km WLTP.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...fiesta-st.html

Thats a very modern 3 cylinder 1.5L turbo engine, in a car that weighs something like 1200kg and it would struggle to fit in those targets the federal government is talking about in the next few years.

Look at 2029 - either manufacturers have been working on stuff behind the scenes or we're going to see the death of internal combustion engine new vehicles by 2029.

Or do they just incorporate the price of the penalties the manufacturer pays in the cost of new vehicles?

IE - we forecast we're going to sell 100,000 Rangers in Australia in 2029, we're going to pay Canberra X amount in fines for not meeting emissions targets, so

$X in fine divided by 100,000 vehicles = $Y markup on every new Ranger sold.

What a time to be alive

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Even if you look at the passenger vehicle standards they're targeting, current model Fiesta ST (RIP in Australia):







https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...fiesta-st.html



Thats a very modern 3 cylinder 1.5L turbo engine, in a car that weighs something like 1200kg and it would struggle to fit in those targets the federal government is talking about in the next few years.



Look at 2029 - either manufacturers have been working on stuff behind the scenes or we're going to see the death of internal combustion engine new vehicles by 2029.



Or do they just incorporate the price of the penalties the manufacturer pays in the cost of new vehicles?



IE - we forecast we're going to sell 100,000 Rangers in Australia in 2029, we're going to pay Canberra X amount in fines for not meeting emissions targets, so



$X in fine divided by 100,000 vehicles = $Y markup on every new Ranger sold.

You need some kind of electrification. That's why the LCT exemption is down to 3.5 litres/100. They don't want pure ICE. Mach E will have to stay in Australia to keep the average fleet emissions down. Might get the Lightning early as a result.

[jgmdat]

Simon Holmes a Court would be one of this country's biggest ****ers.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jgmdat

Simon Holmes a Court would be one of this country's biggest ****ers.

Blokes an absolute pole smoker, remember how people kept whinging here about politics coming into the VFACTs discussion?

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Watch what will happen, media scrutiny, the federal government will intervene when there's political pressure around it.

They won't start logbooks, they'll just remove the tax advantages on Thailand Specials.

All it takes is a stroke of a pen and the party ends and that pen is getting closer and closer to being picked up, just like bringing forward the review of the Australian Standards on fuel quality and investigating the introduction of mandatory fuel efficiency standards.

kevino wasn't talking about manual Rangers, he's been a constant customer of Ford for their manual small Euro hatchbacks over the years, then they stopped offering manual euro hatchbacks, so he went to Skoda, then he's come back under the Ford brand with a DSG Puma with gritted teeth

Same as my family, went to Hyundai as Ford no longer offers new cars that my family buys.

Losing a lot of little sales here and there, thats how you end up being a car company that sells two vehicles, of which the biggest seller the customers are being incentivised by tax advantages, which can disappear tomorrow and greatly shift the dynamics of the new car market.

If the government is going to intervene in the market with incentives to promote customers to buy a particular product over the others, then you can't have this discussion without involving parliament house, Ford Australia, its Ranger sales and Canberra are joined at the hip.

Yes, its going to effect Toyota and their Hilux sales, but look at Toyota's total sales - not a two horse race like Ford Australia is, they have significantly more sales because they offer 20+ options to our market.

Back in the says of the EF Falcon when Ford Australia were last in number 1, what was the model breakdown of their sales, how many different vehicles did they offer to the market?

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Oh look, more focus on the tax exemptions on Thailand Specials:



https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...4-p5ev6v.html?

Suddenly the media is focusing on FBT exemptions on Thailand Specials, the government is talking about mandating fuel efficiency standards and looking into emissions.

Are we about to see a shift in the market? There's a lot of people who have no interest in cars suddenly interested and talking about all these tax and financial benefits that the top three selling vehicles seem to attract, and the blindness of the ATO towards the abuse of them.

I wonder if government intervention in the new car market is on Ford Australia's risk register, at the moment it works in their favor, its not a problem for Toyota because of their market coverage.

If the federal government and the prime minister for inner western Sydney suddenly intervenes forcing a market shift, its a serious problem for Ford Ute

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They're not forcing it, but people are being heavily incentivised/subsidised to purchase these vehicles, its not a free market so your point is invalid. You can't have this conversation without acknowledging there is government interference in the market which is driving purchasing decisions.

If they cop LCT and start paying taxes on them, and the price further increases, do you think they'll go the Thailand Special, or are they going to move to SUVs?

Or even better still, fuel efficiency standards get introduced, or the government does what China does and increases registration costs on cars with internal combustion engines and makes it free for EVs - watch how quick people change their buying habits.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Momentum is gathering in the political circles over everyone having a fetish for a Thailand Special, an American ute and SUVs, with people pushing for mandatory fuel efficiency standards. The kind of people who take the tram to work.

I think its going to be hilarious when the F150 starts pumping more numbers than the lowest cost model in Ford's range (Puma).



Cars died in 2017 when the VFII Commodore stopped being made, the only new cars I like is the 'Hilux Champ' which isn't coming to Australia, Suzuki Carry which is a grey import and the Tesla Model 3/Cupra Born.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I wonder if we'll see hybrid unleaded versions of the Thailand Specials?

Either that or Bosch is being Bosch and is sitting on technology that will get diesels through later stage emissions and they're just sitting on it waiting for it to happen before they come out with a solution.

They do this sort of **** all the time because they're flogs.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Monique Ryan in parliament has started pushing for fuel efficiency standards in Australia,

She has released an op-ed, with her thoughts on it, and I thought this would be worth a discussion with our community here on AFF:



https://assets.nationbuilder.com/koo...pdf?1651035358

There's a push in parliament house to introduce fuel efficiency standards, this could certainly turn the Australian car market on its head if they head down a fuel efficiency path and punish manufacturers (and customers) for flooding our market with Thailand Specials and SUVs.

I've bolded the parts I found interesting, I find it hilarious she's mentioned the F150 Lightning, they can't even manufacture enough for their own market, and they don't offer the F150 in RHD either from the factory, even if we did introduce fuel efficiency standards - whose to say Ford USA would even consider offering this to Ford Australia?

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Makes you wonder if they just keep the Ranger/Everest then do a GM on Asia Pacific and Europe - just focus on the US because that seems like what they're doing.

They make decisions, then they get forced on the subsidiaries but leave them without the vehicles they make the decisions for.

Monique Ryan is pushing for fuel efficiency standards in Australia in parliament as of today, something like that could effect it even further.

....I told you so

There's always something along the line mentioned about 'these people being in the minority', well those people in the minority have significant influence in Canberra and we've just seen what happens when something is on their shitlist that they take a disliking too.

It started with all the negative media attention cropping up around Thailand Specials and American utes.

[Hemihunter]

good Ole Scotty Bowen at it again. surely this guy is cooked.

[kypez]

Reading more and I said it in another thread, it would seem manufacturers would have to buy credits from Tesla, BYD, etc. Would result in price increases for "polluting" cars and extra revenue for EV manufacturers.

[au2000]

How I’m reading it also means some manufacturers could reduce supply of some vehicles to reduce their fines, more likely though, the fine cost will be averaged out and added to the vehicle cost… with the associated addition to dealer delivery etc costs..
Maybe we are about to see the end of the Ming mole and the introduction of the carbon cu in the nt

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Reading more and I said it in another thread, it would seem manufacturers would have to buy credits from Tesla, BYD, etc. Would result in price increases for "polluting" cars and extra revenue for EV manufacturers.

Imagine being useless flogs like Stellantis, paying out the *** for carbon credits from Tesla

[ljf12]

Chris Bowen has stated that you can buy a Mazda CX30 in the UK that is 25% more fuel efficient than any you can buy in Australia.

Mazda UK website 2.0l auto fwd 6.1 l/100km, Mazda Australia website 6.3l/100km.

Do they use a different method for calculating fuel consumption in the UK ?

[ljf12]

So in the UK does their consumption test include driving up a mountain range at 180km/hr towing a trailer ?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by ljf12

Chris Bowen has stated that you can buy a Mazda CX30 in the UK that is 25% more fuel efficient than any you can buy in Australia.



Mazda UK website 2.0l auto fwd 6.1 l/100km, Mazda Australia website 6.3l/100km.



Do they use a different method for calculating fuel consumption in the UK ?

Think it might be the MX30 where you get a plug-in hybrid in the UK that we don't get in Australia..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by ljf12

Chris Bowen has stated that you can buy a Mazda CX30 in the UK that is 25% more fuel efficient than any you can buy in Australia.

Mazda UK website 2.0l auto fwd 6.1 l/100km, Mazda Australia website 6.3l/100km.

Do they use a different method for calculating fuel consumption in the UK ?

For the longest time, car manufacturers reporting fuel economy figures in Europe did so
with the aim of lowest CO2 figures because surprise surprise a lot of registrations are taxed that way.
So yeah, I recon the European numbers have been massaged a bit where Aussie figures are probably less so.


I’m wary about all of this, anytime a government body or efficiency group has a good idea
it always ends up costing the average punter more, I’m surprised they haven’t raised fuel excise
to some ridiculous amount. I’m old, I’m cynical and just tired of all the bull****.

[Hemihunter]

So the Fuel Tax increases today ... and they announce this crap the day before a fuel price rise... join the dots. Another Con Job in progress.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by ljf12

Chris Bowen has stated that you can buy a Mazda CX30 in the UK that is 25% more fuel efficient than any you can buy in Australia.

Mazda UK website 2.0l auto fwd 6.1 l/100km, Mazda Australia website 6.3l/100km.

Do they use a different method for calculating fuel consumption in the UK ?

Labor couldn’t lie straight in bed. See the Mediscare.

Feelings over facts with that mob.

[Polyal]

So I am better of buying cars from my childhood and being a dinosaur...cool.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by jpd80

For the longest time, car manufacturers reporting fuel economy figures in Europe did so
with the aim of lowest CO2 figures because surprise surprise a lot of registrations are taxed that way.
So yeah, I recon the European numbers have been massaged a bit where Aussie figures are probably less so.


I’m wary about all of this, anytime a government body or efficiency group has a good idea
it always ends up costing the average punter more, I’m surprised they haven’t raised fuel excise
to some ridiculous amount. I’m old, I’m cynical and just tired of all the bull****.

A Mazda cx3 prob averages 9l/100km s in real life.

Have you looked at the average co2 numbers as the years roll by.

Ice cars will be out out of new car sales by the 2029 except for the rich.

Everyone else will buy a possibly dubious and probably Chinese electric car.

Apart again from the rich buying expensive electric car brands.

Again a large part of the population will be stuck with old ice bombs -new cars will not be on their horizon.

I question whether this is the start of the end of the car as a personal mobility device.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by kevino

A Mazda cx3 prob averages 9l/100km s in real life.

Have you looked at the average co2 numbers as the years roll by.

Ice cars will be out out of new car sales by the 2029 except for the rich.

Everyone else will buy a possibly dubious and probably Chinese electric car.

Apart again from the rich buying expensive electric car brands.

Again a large part of the population will be stuck with old ice bombs -new cars will not be on their horizon.

I question whether this is the start of the end of the car as a personal mobility device.

That appears to be the end goal.

PT for all, and you live in the bug hive whether you like it or not.

[lra]

Originally Posted by kevino

Again a large part of the population will be stuck with old ice bombs -new cars will not be on their horizon.

I question whether this is the start of the end of the car as a personal mobility device.

Next step ............. come 20XX?. and if the Govt's legislation doesn't work as they predicted, and the roads are full of old ICE bombs, they will legislate that cars over XX years old must be deregistered and scrapped.

Chris Bowen and his Comrades are so far out of touch with reality and practicality.

[kevino]

Tony Abbott would have a field day with this issue
It’s not fuel efficiency
It’s a carbon tax

[kypez]

It's funny to read comments about forcing people into new cars when many "third world" countries have these policies like this and they manage just fine. 15-20 years before they have to be recycled

[lra]

Originally Posted by kypez

It's funny to read comments about forcing people into new cars when many "third world" countries have these policies like this and they manage just fine. 15-20 years before they have to be recycled

What is the life expectancy of a donkey ? and which 'third world' countries are they ?

[kevino]

Depends where your perspective is coming from
Have those other countries reached the co2 levels this proposed policy suggests from 27:28/29 - I think not

[kypez]

Originally Posted by kevino

Depends where your perspective is coming from
Have those other countries reached the co2 levels this proposed policy suggests from 27:28/29 - I think not

Not even close I'd suggest but they're trying with their population. Getting older cars off the road cleans up the air as was seen during COVID in those countries. Huge amount of Smog from older cars. It exists for us in cities too. We just don't see it as much as those countries due to sheer numbers and more diesels on road.

In fact, they're banning diesels for taxi 's and replacing them with CNG which I found interesting.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by lra

Next step ............. come 20XX?. and if the Govt's legislation doesn't work as they predicted, and the roads are full of old ICE bombs, they will legislate that cars over XX years old must be deregistered and scrapped.

Chris Bowen and his Comrades are so far out of touch with reality and practicality.

Always remember people - the most important thing we can all do is vote so that this madness doesn't have a chance to materialise in the first place.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Always remember people - the most important thing we can all do is vote so that this madness doesn't have a chance to materialise in the first place.

Pick a team. On one thread you don't like that we don't have Falcon Ute/Terri and lament the cost of these new cars and now want to vote in the people that saw to their (Ford/Holden) demise?!