demerit points (easy people)

mrbaxr6t · 21-10-2009, 06:30 PM

just seen on the news in Victoria they have figured out people are using internet to sell/buy demerit points (example cop a fine, pay someone with more points to say it was them and give them the coin for the fine plus extra for taking the points hit), apart from this being ethically wrong and the like I spoke to a friend from SA (using the internet) and he said that in SA there is an option for companies that allows them to not nominate a driver on company cars and pay a higher fine. Found this information quite interesting, and think we should discuss it -- please play nice

blownv8au · 21-10-2009, 06:42 PM

i've had my parents take points for me because i had only 1 or 2 and i suspect i'm not alone. As for companys i think the fine is about $4000 for them so i don't think a business name and a abn is worth it.

ThePistonHead · 21-10-2009, 06:49 PM

I would be interested to see the specific law for this.

Oxa384 · 21-10-2009, 06:50 PM

yes my boss did the same thing here in qld in regards to paying a higher fine if you cannot nominate a driver.im sure its only for buisness(abn) or company's.

mrbaxr6t · 21-10-2009, 06:54 PM

what they said on the news was it is illegal, but vicpol say vicroads should police it and vicroads say vicpol should police it, so nobody is "policing" it

I feel that nobody should sell their points doing this keeps potentially unsafe drivers on the road (how else you rack 12 points)

and if what my SA friend says, allowing companies to pay a higher fine and not nominate a driver, then tell the rest of us its illegal to escape the points is a bit hypocritical isn't it?

flappist · 21-10-2009, 06:56 PM

Ancient history. It has been going on up here for years.

$50 was the going rate for a backpacker to wear the points.

Does not work of course if you are actually intercepted but speed cameras were never a problem.

As stated above, in QLD if your car is company registered you do not have to nominate a driver if you pay five times the fine. e.g. 15km over is about $1800 (not that it is revinue raising).

Yellow_Festiva · 21-10-2009, 07:00 PM

I had a conversation with one of my European friends about the points system in other countries. I think it is Germany that allows or did allow the open buying and selling of driver demerit points!

Could have been France... was a few years ago now.

outback_ute · 21-10-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePistonHead

I would be interested to see the <b>specific</b> law for this.

Apparently it is covered under the Road Traffic Act & the offence is making a false document (ie filling out the form on the back of the fine to nominate someone else).

just_pazz · 21-10-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjm58

i've had my parents take points for me because i had only 1 or 2 and i suspect i'm not alone. As for companys i think the fine is about $4000 for them so i don't think a business name and a abn is worth it.

I heard on talkback radio today, I know I know

:, that it was around 660 bucks not sure how much it steps up as your speed over gets higher.

snappy · 21-10-2009, 07:15 PM

Dont see wht the big deal is the goverment incourage this they call it the E.T.S. .
It the same do something you should not do and pay money to keep doing it.
Also it not against the law to sell your demerit points its considerd a favour and legal.

Iggypoppin' · 21-10-2009, 07:34 PM

I know exactly how much it is. A friend of mine arranged with his dad, who runs a fairly large construction company, to register his Telstar in the companies name, every time(all 14) he copped a fine, it was nominated that they couldn't ascertain who did it, and he paid 340$ or thereabouts, on top of the fine. It's pretty shoddy but he kept his I'll deserved licence.

kyro_02 · 21-10-2009, 07:56 PM

hope they don't change the laws to tighten this great loop hole, it's a good thing to be able to nominate another driver.... if they lower the cost of fines(revenue raising) and maybe... double the demerit points for speeding fines, or even leave them as is, i may agree to regulating how the nomination works... but because we can be booked at 3kph over, which is total crap, might be best at 6kph.... or 10kph for 80-100 zones before before being booked...?

RG · 21-10-2009, 08:02 PM

Meh, who cares.

If I needed to I would, judging by the points I have left I might too. Some of the things you get fined for here are ludicrous.

spandex · 21-10-2009, 08:46 PM

In vic you still need to pick a driver or the owner of the company cops the fine.
Vic has the worst laws

Pinch · 21-10-2009, 08:53 PM

Marcus Einfeld didn't get away with it here in NSW!

Generally to nominate another driver you have to swear an oath or affirmation on a Statutory Declaration (and have it witnessed). Penalties for perjury are much worse than catching the bus for 3 months. How are those prison showers going Mr Einfeld?

Chances are no one will ever know, but if by some chance they start a crackdown and you have done it at the wrong time...

XplosiveR6 · 21-10-2009, 09:02 PM

That form on the back of the infringement form is a statutory declaration, and is highly illegal to submit false information on a stat-dec, i cannot believe some of you guys are wondering if it’s illegal, people go to jail for providing false information on law binding documents like this one.
It’s simple you play, you pay. But then i guess we are now living in a society where no one takes responsibility for anything, it’s always someone else’s fault. And the poor family member who does the right thing has to take the points and risk their licence so that you can keep on speeding...

Zedjay · 21-10-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinch

Marcus Einfeld didn't get away with it here in NSW!

Generally to nominate another driver you have to swear an oath or affirmation on a Statutory Declaration (and have it witnessed). Penalties for perjury are much worse than catching the bus for 3 months. How are those prison showers going Mr Einfeld?

Chances are no one will ever know, but if by some chance they start a crackdown and you have done it at the wrong time...

yeah but he nominated a dead person didnt he??

:

Bossxr8 · 21-10-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinch

Marcus Einfeld didn't get away with it here in NSW!

Because no one is that stupid to nominate a dead person, and then someone else who wasn't even in the country at the time of the offence, just to get out of a small fine when you are on a huge judges salary.

You'd think that someone who's intelligent enough to become a judge could figure that out.

As for getting people to take your demerit points I say so what. The only thing the Vic government care about is getting the revenue money, so as long as they get that they sure as hell don't care who's taking the points.

Iggypoppin' · 21-10-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Because no one is that stupid to nominate a dead person, and then someone else who wasn't even in the country at the time of the offence, just to get out of a small fine when you are on a huge judges salary.

You'd think that someone who's intelligent enough to become a judge could figure that out.

As for getting people to take your demerit points I say so what. The only thing the Vic government care about is getting the revenue money, so as long as they get that they sure as hell don't care who's taking the points.

You're right but for the state gov the principle counts as well.

LaudTheFord · 22-10-2009, 08:12 AM

This is where the demerit system really comes unstuck. It effectively criminilises minor motoring offences and can make criminals out of ordinary mum and dad drivers.

It is counter productive to their revenue raising anyway as it can take their most regular contributors off the road. They should really scrap it for camera offences. It should only apply to dangerous driving offences.

The only reason they don't do that is that then they would have to admit that they are revenue raising.

mik · 22-10-2009, 09:04 AM

i would`nt call it a loophole just yet , as there are actually times when someone else is driving a vehicle and you have been inadvertantly fined for somone elses indiscretion, like any law it is open to wroughts, i think the extra fine is more of a incentive for companys who have many drivers on the road and don`t know who is behind the wheel or won`t cooperate, the option of nominateing a driver is not mean`t to be a get out of jail card and if it was found to be the case i believe you would be in seriouse dodo.

LTDterri · 22-10-2009, 09:11 AM

I think in VIC its much the same if a company cannot name the driver it gets a higher fine, obviously no points, my brother in law has been handing over his points to anyone in the family who would take them for years.

ROLLI · 22-10-2009, 09:22 AM

The fine in VIC is $600 if you can not nominate a driver my boss does it all the time but he came unstuck last month when the sherrif came out to work and said you have $10,000 in fines hahaha what a joke just pay the fine mate

**Jastel** · 22-10-2009, 09:40 PM

I do it pretty much weekly with the taxis

Stuffed if I am getting 5 times the fine

Under transport act we must know who is driving the taxi so cant use the old company defense anyway, many drivers have asked me.

It is a stat dec as said and must be witnessed by a JP, lawyer, policeman etc

You then get a notice saying it has been cancelled off you and sent to the nominated person, who gets it a few weeks later.

This is in Qld anyhow.

fangq · 22-10-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

That form on the back of the infringement form is a statutory declaration, and is highly illegal to submit false information on a stat-dec, i cannot believe some of you guys are wondering if it’s illegal, people go to jail for providing false information on law binding documents like this one.
It’s simple you play, you pay. But then i guess we are now living in a society where no one takes responsibility for anything, it’s always someone else’s fault. And the poor family member who does the right thing has to take the points and risk their licence so that you can keep on speeding...

Who keeps a log book within the family unit ?
Steve

Auslandau · 22-10-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

That form on the back of the infringement form is a statutory declaration, and is highly illegal to submit false information on a stat-dec, i cannot believe some of you guys are wondering if it’s illegal, people go to jail for providing false information on law binding documents like this one.
It’s simple you play, you pay. But then i guess we are now living in a society where no one takes responsibility for anything, it’s always someone else’s fault. And the poor family member who does the right thing has to take the points and risk their licence so that you can keep on speeding...

In Vic ...... it isn't a stat dec. Does not need to be witnessed or endoresed by a JP. In other states, I do not know but it if I pass on a fine the person taking it needs to be the only signiture that they accept it.

I know this as I have all the cars in my name and spend half the time trying to work out who was driving what, when and where ....... sometimes I don't know so I will split the bill with who I think was driving and who ever has less points gets to loose another.

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Green X · 22-10-2009, 09:53 PM

Most demerit point loses are fines from small speeding fines, i would hardy class these people as dangerous drivers!!

Skotty · 23-10-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

But then i guess we are now living in a society where no one takes responsibility for anything, it’s always someone else’s fault. And the poor family member who does the right thing has to take the points and risk their licence so that you can keep on speeding...

Very well said there mate!

kircher · 23-10-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

And the poor family member who does the right thing has to take the points and risk their licence so that you can keep on speeding...

Not all demerit points come from speeding

Pinch · 23-10-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Because no one is that stupid to nominate a dead person, and then someone else who wasn't even in the country at the time of the offence, just to get out of a small fine when you are on a huge judges salary.

You'd think that someone who's intelligent enough to become a judge could figure that out.

As for getting people to take your demerit points I say so what. The only thing the Vic government care about is getting the revenue money, so as long as they get that they sure as hell don't care who's taking the points.

True. Epic fail nominating a dead person, by a supposed intellectual better of the common person! Point is, it was found out. Ok, so your average punter might not be so arrogant as to nominate a dead person. Especially where the infringement is camera detected though and you don't look like the person you are nominating (photo's of both offender and nominee on road authority files) a cross check of the infringement photo with the nominated persons photo could spoil things for both people for a long time.

Would't be that hard to do, a bit of software writing and voila, busted custard.

Do the crime...

That, or people could just play by the rules - especially if they have had multiple warnings. No real sympathy here.