Fast car driving

[MercuryT]

Question.
We've had a tragedy happen and I won't touch on this as too upsetting.

As sports or car lovers what do we think?

Drink driving ok? (never done it)

Speeding OK? (yes I've done it. No traffic etc)

Where do we draw the line?

Both are completely outside the law but where is your risk base?

I personally never drink or drive but regularally sit at 120 or so easy.

Where is the line as I don't believe most car lovers haven't enjoyed their beautiful car occassionally....

Guess track only and that's fair.

[Bossxr8]

Time and place.

[Romulus]

What constitutes speeding? Forgetting arbitrary speed limits, doing 50km/h can be just as dangerous as 150km/h in the wrong environment.

I just did a return trip to Kalgoorlie over the last couple of days, around 550km each way. Did the journey in just over 6 hours each trip. Personally, I think the 110km/h speed limit is too low and can cause fatigue by having to drive at such low levels of concentration. I think the sweet spot is 130-150km/h, depending on the vehicle of course.

As for drink and drug driving, never done it. Anyone caught with any level of alcohol or drugs in their system should face a 6-12 month licence suspension.

[Captain Stubing]

Fast car driving is for the race tracks. Not on the public roads.

Porsche can build a car that can do a zillion kilometers an hour, but that doesn't fit in with our society.

Hyundai's and Kia's don't do those speeds, and realistically we don't need to travel at those speeds in real life.

I think it's reserved for the track, where you can sink the boot in. Not on public roads where unforeseen victims can be involved if it goes wrong.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Captain Stubing

Fast car driving is for the race tracks. Not on the public roads.

Porsche can build a car that can do a zillion kilometers an hour, but that doesn't fit in with our society.

Hyundai's and Kia's don't do those speeds, and realistically we don't need to travel at those speeds in real life.

I think it's reserved for the track, where you can sink the boot in. Not on public roads where unforeseen victims can be involved if it goes wrong.

Porsche, BMW, AMG, Ferrari build cars that can safely be driving at speeds in excess of 200km/h on public roads in Europe, but not in Australia? That’s like arguing guns are not safe and ignoring the fool who’s handling a car or gun.

[Captain Stubing]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Porsche, BMW, AMG, Ferrari build cars that can safely be driving at speeds in excess of 200km/h on public roads in Europe, but not in Australia? That’s like arguing guns are not safe and ignoring the fool who’s handling a car or gun.

They can build the cars to safely drive at those speeds, but you can't program the driver to be able to handle that speed.

Would you ask your mother to drive a Ferrari at 200km/hr on a public road?

[arronm]

Yes.....

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Porsche, BMW, AMG, Ferrari build cars that can safely be driving at speeds in excess of 200km/h on public roads in Europe, but not in Australia? That’s like arguing guns are not safe and ignoring the fool who’s handling a car or gun.

I think the counter argument is something along the lines of the autobahns etc being designed for cars to travel safely at high speed (things like surfacing, camber etc) whereas our roads are generally pretty poor by comparison. In Sydney at least, even some of the newer sections of highway can be pretty sketchy, some of the random dips and grades in the surface would launch you into orbit if you hit them at 200+.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Romulus

What constitutes speeding? Forgetting arbitrary speed limits, doing 50km/h can be just as dangerous as 150km/h in the wrong environment.

I just did a return trip to Kalgoorlie over the last couple of days, around 550km each way. Did the journey in just over 6 hours each trip. Personally, I think the 110km/h speed limit is too low and can cause fatigue by having to drive at such low levels of concentration. I think the sweet spot is 130-150km/h, depending on the vehicle of course.

As for drink and drug driving, never done it. Anyone caught with any level of alcohol or drugs in their system should face a 6-12 month licence suspension.

Yep travelling at 150kph on the road and have some wildlife animal coming out on the road at the last moment will be like having a death sentence no matter how good your car is.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Question.
We've had a tragedy happen and I won't touch on this as too upsetting.

As sports or car lovers what do we think?

Drink driving ok? (never done it)

Speeding OK? (yes I've done it. No traffic etc)

Where do we draw the line?

Both are completely outside the law but where is your risk base?

I personally never drink or drive but regularally sit at 120 or so easy.

Where is the line as I don't believe most car lovers haven't enjoyed their beautiful car occassionally....

Guess track only and that's fair.

In my younger days I've done speeding and drinking but in hindsight I consider myself extremely lucky that I got away with it (drinking) and did not kill myself or some unsuspecting soul.
The laws are there for a good reason but sadly the young ones and some old fools will keep taking risks, just our human nature I suppose.
Cheers.

[Ross 1]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I think the counter argument is something along the lines of the autobahns etc being designed for cars to travel safely at high speed (things like surfacing, camber etc) whereas our roads are generally pretty poor by comparison. In Sydney at least, even some of the newer sections of highway can be pretty sketchy, some of the random dips and grades in the surface would launch you into orbit if you hit them at 200+.

The drivers are also pretty poor by comparison. Imagine flashing your lights to be let past on the motorway in Oz, you would be abused by some bogan, tradie, soccer mum whilst they post on facebook how some rude driver is flashing their lights at them.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Yep travelling at 150kph on the road and have some wildlife animal coming out on the road at the last moment will be like having a death sentence no matter how good your car is.

And having a child run out from in front of a car with no warning whatsoever is likely to end in fatality even at a 40-50km/h speed limit.

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I think the counter argument is something along the lines of the autobahns etc being designed for cars to travel safely at high speed (things like surfacing, camber etc) whereas our roads are generally pretty poor by comparison. In Sydney at least, even some of the newer sections of highway can be pretty sketchy, some of the random dips and grades in the surface would launch you into orbit if you hit them at 200+.

Perhaps, and if someone is driving at a speed beyond their capabilities and the roads capacity for that speed that would constitute demonstrable incompetence.

[Devonia]

I see no problem with "spirited" driving but you have to use your brain. The old adage, appropriate time and place holds true in my opinion.
It goes both ways....there are also examples of speed limits not being low enough e.g there are plenty of suburban school zones where at peak times 40kph is way too fast, so common sense needs to prevail. (and therein lies the problem I guess)

[roddy1960]

Been said already and it's true ..When you're young you're invincible and so many have yet to weigh up the thrill of driving faster with their own safety and everybody else for that matter , I think most of us eventually do grasp the concept in time . Some don't and we all know somebody like that . Then there's the way roads are designed to handle bulk people driving faster in among heavier transport vehicles .

German Autobahns and American Interstates differences here's a clip made by somebody and there's plenty on why or why not it works more safely perhaps .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eMJ3jjPn4k...

The really interesting fact is the big difference in fatality rates . If true less than half as many in Germany is a little surprising but I wonder how that compares to countries like us per 100,000 people .

[Franco Cozzo]

I think we try wrap people up in cotton wool too much, the speed limits are too low, its like they were set for cars from the 1970s that didn't stop, turn or accelerate well and killed their occupants in minor crashes.

I don't see why the Tullamarine Freeway has to be 80km/h when its 5 lanes wide and in mint condition, it used to be 100km/h and less lanes then they reduced the speed limit when they upgraded it, the result is a lot of people just do 100km/h plus and roll the dice anyway because the volume of traffic using it there's a minimal chance of actually being caught (in normal times anyway excluding COVID-19 dramas)

Same with the Calder Freeway, its basically divided dual lane freeway for 150km between Melbourne and Bendigo, it could be faster than 110km/h.

All of Melbourne's major freeways are in good condition, multiple lanes and divided and they all have ridiculously low speed limits.

It also brings into the spotlight Australia's lack of standards for consumables and service items on cars, there's no standard for tyres and brake pads in this country and your Average Joe seems to have a new Mercedes or BMW, but come service time skimps on tyres and puts China specials on it because Bill's Tyres around the corner has a special for $98 per corner on China specials.

I see this every day, someone puts cheap China Protex Blue brake pads in a customers Falcon because they're $12+ GST compared to Bendix GCT at $45+ People whinge about a couple of bucks here and there on quality service items and tyres.

The tyres and the brake pads are the difference between stopping before the toddler that escaped from Mummabear and stopping on its spine, you probably don't notice the difference driving around suburbia but you certainly do in an emergency stop situation.

Then we have to talk about our licensing system, I think we need to stop making excuses for Mum in the Ferrari at 200km/h, there's making genuine mistakes and there's ignorance and negligence, if you can't manage a car at faster than 110km/h then maybe you should have to resit your license testing until you are competent.

It also means the police need to enforce things like not keeping left, which they don't do, if Mum wants to do 80km/h in the Ferrari then she better be in the left lane.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I see this every day, someone puts cheap China Protex Blue brake pads in a customers Falcon because they're $12+ GST compared to Bendix GCT at $45+ People whinge about a couple of bucks here and there on quality service items and tyres.

2:30 onwards has an interesting explanation about the cheap $20 special brake pads, they even suck on a 100km/h - 5km/h test requiring a massive amount of effort on the pedal to maintain its stopping performance as friction coefficient drops off.

Surprise surprise the OE pads performed consistently across all the tests, who knew that people who design cars for a living have specified fit for purpose parts for their vehicles.

Europe has a standard called ECE R90 that applies to brake pads and brake shoes, if it doesn't meet the test then it doesn't get sold, cheap China specials are illegal.

The test includes cold and hot brake friction analysis and if a part has been approved to R90, it can be safely assumed that the product is equal to or better than original equipment product.

https://ebcbrakes.com/ece-r90/

What is ECE R90?
ECE-R90 guarantees the same performance as the OE brake component. In North America, there is no government regulation that reiterates brake parts to be certified to meet OE speciation prior to being sold. However, Europe has strict quality standards. ECE R90 is for European vehicles. This ensures testing the brakes to meet the standards. The regulation measures brake pads and linings for cold performance, speed, sensitivity, friction behavior, compressibility, shear, and hardness. ECE-R90 is required for all replacement brake disc and linings sold throughout the European Union.

https://www.powerstop.com/ece-r90-ce...on-brake-pads/

Australia should get its **** together but we're a nation of tight asses who want to pay less for everything but get paid more and more and more in wages.

[CyberWasp]

Sometimes the quality of brake pads does not help.......especially if speeding and you don't use your brakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLJb-qd9fzk

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Romulus

And having a child run out from in front of a car with no warning whatsoever is likely to end in fatality even at a 40-50km/h speed limit.

That is true as it has happened to me but 40 to 50kph is vastly different to 150kph when trying to stop or avoid collision.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I think we try wrap people up in cotton wool too much, the speed limits are too low, its like they were set for cars from the 1970s that didn't stop, turn or accelerate well and killed their occupants in minor crashes.

I don't see why the Tullamarine Freeway has to be 80km/h when its 5 lanes wide and in mint condition, it used to be 100km/h and less lanes then they reduced the speed limit when they upgraded it, the result is a lot of people just do 100km/h plus and roll the dice anyway because the volume of traffic using it there's a minimal chance of actually being caught (in normal times anyway excluding COVID-19 dramas)

Same with the Calder Freeway, its basically divided dual lane freeway for 150km between Melbourne and Bendigo, it could be faster than 110km/h.

All of Melbourne's major freeways are in good condition, multiple lanes and divided and they all have ridiculously low speed limits.

It also brings into the spotlight Australia's lack of standards for consumables and service items on cars, there's no standard for tyres and brake pads in this country and your Average Joe seems to have a new Mercedes or BMW, but come service time skimps on tyres and puts China specials on it because Bill's Tyres around the corner has a special for $98 per corner on China specials.

I see this every day, someone puts cheap China Protex Blue brake pads in a customers Falcon because they're $12+ GST compared to Bendix GCT at $45+ People whinge about a couple of bucks here and there on quality service items and tyres.

The tyres and the brake pads are the difference between stopping before the toddler that escaped from Mummabear and stopping on its spine, you probably don't notice the difference driving around suburbia but you certainly do in an emergency stop situation.

Then we have to talk about our licensing system, I think we need to stop making excuses for Mum in the Ferrari at 200km/h, there's making genuine mistakes and there's ignorance and negligence, if you can't manage a car at faster than 110km/h then maybe you should have to resit your license testing until you are competent.

It also means the police need to enforce things like not keeping left, which they don't do, if Mum wants to do 80km/h in the Ferrari then she better be in the left lane.

Some very good points here but sadly too many brain dead drivers have no idea driving safely or using common sense on our roads.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Porsche, BMW, AMG, Ferrari build cars that can safely be driving at speeds in excess of 200km/h on public roads in Europe, but not in Australia? That’s like arguing guns are not safe and ignoring the fool who’s handling a car or gun.

I agree that in the hands of a competent driver, most modern vehicles can be driven safely at higher speeds. The key words are “competent driver”. One just has to do a trip on the M1 between Brisbane and the Gold Coast to see just how incompetent the average driver truly is.

For example, consider the following simple tasks.

A) drive the vehicle at a fixed set speed +/- 3kmhr of target speed (and yes, you are allowed to use the cruise control to achieve this).

B) track within the centre of your lane +/- 30cm on a straight stretch of road.

C) when lane changing, indicate for at least three seconds and use this time to check blind spots are clear.

D) Keep a minimum of two seconds behind the vehicle in front.

Sounds easy, doesn’t it! Unfortunately, most drivers fail these simple tasks, even when concentrating hard. If the general population cannot do these simple tasks, then higher speed limits really increases the risk.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I think we try wrap people up in cotton wool too much, the speed limits are too low, its like they were set for cars from the 1970s that didn't stop, turn or accelerate well and killed their occupants in minor crashes.

I don't see why the Tullamarine Freeway has to be 80km/h when its 5 lanes wide and in mint condition, it used to be 100km/h and less lanes then they reduced the speed limit when they upgraded it, the result is a lot of people just do 100km/h plus and roll the dice anyway because the volume of traffic using it there's a minimal chance of actually being caught (in normal times anyway excluding COVID-19 dramas)

Same with the Calder Freeway, its basically divided dual lane freeway for 150km between Melbourne and Bendigo, it could be faster than 110km/h.

All of Melbourne's major freeways are in good condition, multiple lanes and divided and they all have ridiculously low speed limits.

It also brings into the spotlight Australia's lack of standards for consumables and service items on cars, there's no standard for tyres and brake pads in this country and your Average Joe seems to have a new Mercedes or BMW, but come service time skimps on tyres and puts China specials on it because Bill's Tyres around the corner has a special for $98 per corner on China specials.

I see this every day, someone puts cheap China Protex Blue brake pads in a customers Falcon because they're $12+ GST compared to Bendix GCT at $45+ People whinge about a couple of bucks here and there on quality service items and tyres.

The tyres and the brake pads are the difference between stopping before the toddler that escaped from Mummabear and stopping on its spine, you probably don't notice the difference driving around suburbia but you certainly do in an emergency stop situation.

Then we have to talk about our licensing system, I think we need to stop making excuses for Mum in the Ferrari at 200km/h, there's making genuine mistakes and there's ignorance and negligence, if you can't manage a car at faster than 110km/h then maybe you should have to resit your license testing until you are competent.

It also means the police need to enforce things like not keeping left, which they don't do, if Mum wants to do 80km/h in the Ferrari then she better be in the left lane.

Yes some city freeways are reasonably maintained but as you venture further out highways like the Hume and Pacific are potholed goat tracks. Far from Autobahn standards.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Question.
We've had a tragedy happen and I won't touch on this as too upsetting.

As sports or car lovers what do we think?

Drink driving ok? (never done it)

Speeding OK? (yes I've done it. No traffic etc)

Where do we draw the line?

Both are completely outside the law but where is your risk base?

I personally never drink or drive but regularally sit at 120 or so easy.

Where is the line as I don't believe most car lovers haven't enjoyed their beautiful car occassionally....

Guess track only and that's fair.

Where i currently sit on this topic deffinately not the same as when i was under 22. Back then everything was a competition with my mates and i. There was deffinately some bad mishaps and suspended licences. We all had crap cars. But as i said, everything was a competition. Even down to a few roads where it was who could jump the furthest.
So when i was 22 i had my first kid and now a work car. So not only did i clean up my act because i had someone who needs dad to come home in the same state he left, i needed my licence in tact to stay in a job. Now my kids a bit older, school pickups i see how blind to the world around them some kids are around the road and driveways. I agree that some maintained freeways could be lifted to 110. Work have tried to preasure me into mashing it to get to call outs. But its my drivers licence. I dont mess about taking the long route, but im not going to risk my licence and therefor job because work said so.
For fun, you just need to find fun roads. You dont need to be wreckless to have fun on winding roads. Well, maybe disregard the corner speed signs. But its not punching 200 down the old pacific highway.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

Where i currently sit on this topic deffinately not the same as when i was under 22. Back then everything was a competition with my mates and i. There was deffinately some bad mishaps and suspended licences. We all had crap cars. But as i said, everything was a competition. Even down to a few roads where it was who could jump the furthest.
So when i was 22 i had my first kid and now a work car. So not only did i clean up my act because i had someone who needs dad to come home in the same state he left, i needed my licence in tact to stay in a job. Now my kids a bit older, school pickups i see how blind to the world around them some kids are around the road and driveways. I agree that some maintained freeways could be lifted to 110. Work have tried to preasure me into mashing it to get to call outs. But its my drivers licence. I dont mess about taking the long route, but im not going to risk my licence and therefor job because work said so.
For fun, you just need to find fun roads. You dont need to be wreckless to have fun on winding roads. Well, maybe disregard the corner speed signs. But its not punching 200 down the old pacific highway.

Certainly a lot changes when you an 18 - 25 year old. I can't believe I'm still around after working in the courier industry.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Yes some city freeways are reasonably maintained but as you venture further out highways like the Hume and Pacific are potholed goat tracks. Far from Autobahn standards.

That's fine but judgement applies, here is an old photo I took (look! Green Ps!), this is around the corner from where I live:



It links a couple of towns so it gets some traffic as well.

Its got a 100km/h speed limit, do you do 100km/h on this taking into account the road itself and the weather?

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Certainly a lot changes when you an 18 - 25 year old. I can't believe I'm still around after working in the courier industry.

I think once you have kids you gain more of a sence of self preservation. My apprentice just got put in an L300 by work. In his last job he rolled an L300. I ask why he jokes about it. He even says his tradesman was joking saying you dont need brakes, so he didnt and ended up sliding down the road with the van on its side. Yeah he walked away fine, but it could have been much worse. Years ago one of my mates was bragging that he could stay in it and straight line a roundabout. He clipped the roundabout and ended up on his roof. Yes back then we had a laugh, but again it could have ended bad.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

I think once you have kids you gain more of a sence of self preservation. My apprentice just got put in an L300 by work. In his last job he rolled an L300. I ask why he jokes about it. He even says his tradesman was joking saying you dont need brakes, so he didnt and ended up sliding down the road with the van on its side. Yeah he walked away fine, but it could have been much worse. Years ago one of my mates was bragging that he could stay in it and straight line a roundabout. He clipped the roundabout and ended up on his roof. Yes back then we had a laugh, but again it could have ended bad.

Ah yes the L300 Mitsubishi Express, the fact that piece of crap ran for so long should be criminal, its 1 star safety rating, its virtually unchanged from the 1980s until 2013 when they stopped selling it



https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.ancap.c...pdf?1417139003

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's fine but judgement applies, here is an old photo I took (look! Green Ps!), this is around the corner from where I live:

image

It links a couple of towns so it gets some traffic as well.

Its got a 100km/h speed limit, do you do 100km/h on this taking into account the road itself and the weather?

Yep, nothing new, all the roads around here are like that, 100kmh dirt (single lane) straight as. Depends on the weather, time of day and season how you drive on them.
Got to remember, you look at a map of Victoria, its divided up into grids of roads. You can drive some dirt roads from East to West for hours. Without driving on tarmac.

Still don't change the fact some freeways are badly maintained.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ah yes the L300 Mitsubishi Express, the fact that piece of crap ran for so long should be criminal, its 1 star safety rating, its virtually unchanged from the 1980s until 2013 when they stopped selling it



https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.ancap.c...pdf?1417139003

I thought they only got half a star? My old one was an 09 and nobody beleived it was not from the 80s. But it is practical. Work still have it. Ill take my 2019 triton over that any day.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ah yes the L300 Mitsubishi Express, the fact that piece of crap ran for so long should be criminal, its 1 star safety rating, its virtually unchanged from the 1980s until 2013 when they stopped selling it



https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.ancap.c...pdf?1417139003

Bit like the Ford panel van basically unchanged from XD - XH.
Nothing wrong with the L300 it was built to do a job and did it well and reliably but due to the nanny laws we now have (yes, you have said it several times over in other threads) it didn't meet current crash test and emissions.

I don't recall star ratings back in the 80s. We thought it was state of the art if it had a cassette radio then and a retractable aerial

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Bit like the Ford panel van basically unchanged from XD - XH.
Nothing wrong with the L300 it was built to do a job and did it well and reliably but due to the nanny laws we now have (yes, you have said it several times over in other threads) it didn't meet current crash test and emissions.

I don't recall star ratings back in the 80s. We thought it was state of the art if it had a cassette radio then and a retractable aerial

Mine had air conditioning.
Anyhow, back to having fun with cars but not being a dick head. A few months back my brother was going for a group ride on his motor horse and asked if id block for them. He rides with a bunch of old blokes who arent in it to max out their bikes, they rather look at the scenery as opposed to max focus on the next corner. So the reason they like having a car behind is purely so the last in the stagger doesnt have some enthusiastic knob on their rear tyre and its a safety thing. So it was the old road up to a pie shop in the lower central coast. Blokes ripping fast bikes, theyre not an issue, they just overtake at 200. But i did see why these blokes like a steel cage behind them. I did have a few over enthusiastic cars on my tail, until the twisties where the bikes got away a bit and i had to play catch up. So speed limits werent broken, but bikes corner faster then a fairmont. Heaps of fun but. Decent tyres make such a difference. I was the odd one out at this pie shop, heaps of guys on bikes ride there. I was almost considered the devil being the 1 car in the car park. So with the blokes my brother was riding with, you wouldnt expect a 60 year old on a yamaha r1, or a 70 year old on a kawasaki gtr1400. My brother was on a kawasaki z1000, so its not like anybody didnt have the opportunity to go really fast. But social riders. Out for a good time, not turning the road into a race track. But yeah, i had fun but understand how other drivers trying to be the next craig lowndes could ruin a social ride.