S/C an NA engine

[The Monty]

Quick question.
I see the raptor s/c kits put out around 180-200rwkw on a pretty mild engine, around 120kw before s/c on 9 psi of boost.
I want to know, as Im making 152 kw now, and should be around 165rwkw naturally aspirated, will I still make only 180-200rwkw if I s/c it, or would the figure work as a % as in around a 70% increase over 165kw, or close to a figure like that.
Fuel system, intake and exhaust, and head can all flow good numbers, so they arent a concern to me, I just want to know what will happen if I put through 9 psi of boost.
Thanks for any answers.
Josh

[private9]

Sometimes an angry NA cam can be an issue in a boosted engine, but it depends on the specs.

But yes, you should expect more from yours than a standard one. I think the % increase you mentioned may be a little optimistic though.

Turbo's also another option to keep in mind!

[The Monty]

I didnt mean to make it sound like I would expect 70%, lol, thats like 280kw at the wheels, lol.
The cam is pretty big, but was told it should be ok on a s/c car.
I dont really want to go turbo, I actually wanted the 4.8L stroker for it, but that has kind of stalled at CMS.
I actually now have reaimed my sights for S/C with a little bit of NOS onto an Au that is quite capable of low 14's. Should be fun.

[private9]

Originally Posted by The Monty

I didnt mean to make it sound like I would expect 70%, lol, thats like 280kw at the wheels, lol.
The cam is pretty big, but was told it should be ok on a s/c car.
I dont really want to go turbo, I actually wanted the 4.8L stroker for it, but that has kind of stalled at CMS.
I actually now have reaimed my sights for S/C with a little bit of NOS onto an Au that is quite capable of low 14's. Should be fun.

Ah cool then.

Yeah, SC kit alone should get you low 14;s with your current setup. I'd personally be disappointed if it couldn't get into a high 13 considering you've got ideal gearing and stall for a SC setup.

Turbo vs Super - I won't start that argument, I'm biased as I'm on my second turbo 4lt!

[The Monty]

Mine will run a low 14 when its finished N/A. Im chasing the title, and Im nearly finished mechanically.
Id expect a mid 13 from it s/c if nothing broke. Then a 50 shot, lol.

[private9]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Mine will run a low 14 when its finished N/A. Im chasing the title, and Im nearly finished mechanically.
Id expect a mid 13 from it s/c if nothing broke. Then a 50 shot, lol.

Nah, wouldn't worry too much about things breaking - they can take heaps!

I know it is around somewhere, but what is the official NA title backed up with slips?

[The Monty]

14.2 and a 14.2, Stav and tripower. I have the same mods as Stav, but my cam is the next step bigger, and his head flows 1.4hp more at .600 lift, lol.
I dont really care if anything breaks, have to be one of the easiest cars in the world to work on, and you can pick up a whole wreck with diff gearbox and engine for under $1000 if anything happens, lol. Hell, mine was only $1150 with 104 000k's on it, lol.

[ayeyew]

Monty, i believe there has been a sub-14 AU run?

Stiddy or someone ran 13.78?

Or was that a dream?!?!

From fordmods:

186rwkw @ 6800rpm. from memory 415nm.
Best 60ft is 1.901
Has run a 13.78 @ 104mph, 13.86 @ 102mph, 13.88 @ 104mph.

AU XR6 HP motor.
-Custom extractors
-3inch highflow X-force cat
-Custom 3inch mandrel bent exhaust
-custom 3inch mandrel bent intake
-Pod filter
-Big a** billet Surecam
-Vernier gear
-Completely built head, spings/valves/porting etc etc Been done twice now.
-Ported BBM manifold (got done with the head)
-Aftermarket coil packs, Splitfire leads
-high vol oil pump
-walbro intank fuel pump, upped fuel pressure
-Atomic Stud girdle
-T5z Spec gearbox, because stock T5's are poo.
-5 puck brass button clutch
-2200lb pressure plate
-Lightened billet alloy flywheel
-Rebuilt 4.11 LSD diff with 80lb springs
-SCT Flasher with Custom tune, 7200rpm rev limit.

Already grenaded a stock bottom end at 7200rpm. Needs a new one, which I may be building soon, Undecided if I want to go further with it. Have also thought about the 6 x t/b set up brockyb has.
These things have plenty of potential if you know what your doing with them.

[The Monty]

No proof of it having been done, the timeslip had the date taken off, and he wasnt at the drags the night he claimed to have done it. Also claims to launch at 5800 rpm on 16 inch street tyres, has stock pistons which arent flycut running .565 lift or something on a skimmed head, which unless it has a decompression plate is pretty amazing, and a head that flows nearly 500hp? lol.
If someone can show me proof that its been done, Ill believe it. And I dont mean a bodgy timeslip either.
Also makes up like 25mph in the top half of the track, pretty amazing car to do that.

[ayeyew]

oic

pretty shoite if someone would lie about sumn like that

btw

I want ur LSD and ur stall thx

[The Monty]

Hahaha, Im not saying anyone is lying, just some things dont add up quite right. Like a fuel pump, but not injectors, injectors seem to max out around 165kw, mine maxed at 152kw.
If I cant get my times down with this setup, Ill be going manual, so I may have a shift kitted, 3000rpm stalled, tranny cooled auto up for grabs.
I was told this cam was no good for an auto, but Im male, I dont listen.

[Fordfan4u]

Monty, if you had ANY idea what you were talking about you would be a real threat to society.
Funny read though.
I dont think you should get a charger, you can hardly drive your thing n/a by the sounds of it lol.

[The Monty]

Ahahaha, thanks. Prove me wrong on anything I pointed out though. Anything.

[daniel_rossy]

Originally Posted by Fordfan4u

Monty, if you had ANY idea what you were talking about you would be a real threat to society.
Funny read though.
I dont think you should get a charger, you can hardly drive your thing n/a by the sounds of it lol.

Give him a break,
if you think its funny to see someone put NOS in a AU, not really. I'v heard plenty of people putting NOS in their stock Civics, now thats funny.
I think it'd be awesome to see monty supercharge the AU.

[poolkeeper]

Originally Posted by daniel_rossy

Give him a break,
if you think its funny to see someone put NOS in a AU, not really. I'v heard plenty of people putting NOS in their stock Civics, now thats funny.
I think it'd be awesome to see monty supercharge the AU.

He is Stiddy's mate, cause he is going to get defensive lol

And I think anyone can build a 13.78 car, and have to blow up in no time haha

[xr8ute]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Hahaha, Im not saying anyone is lying, just some things dont add up quite right. Like a fuel pump, but not injectors, injectors seem to max out around 165kw, mine maxed at 152kw.

Are you still using a std reg, or an XR6 reg?

[The Monty]

If anyone remembers, I was one of the first to congratulate Stiddy. I still think his car is amazing, dont get me wrong, my concern is that some of the things may not be 100% correct, Im all keen to have ANYONE break into the 13's, but when multiple things just dont make sense, thats where you draw the line.
Anyway, can we get back on topic please, I dont want this closed just yet.
What are the effects of running 9lb of boost with a supercharger, on an already pretty highly modified AU i6?
Josh

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Are you still using a std reg, or an XR6 reg?

Standard, as was Stav who maxed at 166kw.

[tweeked]

A lot of the changes on a tough n/a are wasted when supercharged. The improvements found in free flow in your n/a setup negated by the boost. You would probably lose more than half of the percentage gain at n/a level

[CHARGED TERRA]

Originally Posted by The Monty

What are the effects of running 9lb of boost with a supercharger, on an already pretty highly modified AU i6?
Josh

Bucket loads of wheels spin :

[Fordfan4u]

OK. Yeah I am his mate, Ive put in alot of spanner work on his car, so I know a fair bit of whats done to it.

5800rpm launch on street tyres? LOL your kidding right, why doesn't that add up. Picky much?
500hp head, show me where he says that? If he was to do it again, thats what he's chasing not what he has!
The injectors will take the power output n/a, not the fuel reg. Injectors made NO different when testing.
Fly cutting? for this size cam, doesnt need to be done. Its been tried and tested.
Ring Pete's Head Shed, he did all the head work to suit.
We also now know stock rods wont take revs at 7000rpm for too long. Thats why his motor went pop, too many revs on some stock parts.
Theres so much more about his car that you clearly don't know. So because you dont know word for word whats done to it, you assume that its not done, or can't be done.

Sounds like you draw the line, because you've tried to do similar and ended up with a scrap heap. Just beacuse it doesn't add up to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Back on topic.
Should you supercharge your car? NO, because you have no idea what your doing, no idea how stuff works and no idea how to drive.

[RG]

Originally Posted by Fordfan4u

OK. Yeah I am his mate, Ive put in alot of spanner work on his car, so I know a fair bit of whats done to it.

5800rpm launch on street tyres? LOL your kidding right, why doesn't that add up. Picky much?
500hp head, show me where he says that? If he was to do it again, thats what he's chasing not what he has!
The injectors will take the power output n/a, not the fuel reg. Injectors made NO different when testing.
Fly cutting? for this size cam, doesnt need to be done. Its been tried and tested.
Ring Pete's Head Shed, he did all the head work to suit.
We also now know stock rods wont take revs at 7000rpm for too long. Thats why his motor went pop, too many revs on some stock parts.
Theres so much more about his car that you clearly don't know. So because you dont know word for word whats done to it, you assume that its not done, or can't be done.

Sounds like you draw the line, because you've tried to do similar and ended up with a scrap heap. Just beacuse it doesn't add up to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Back on topic.
Should you supercharge your car? NO, because you have no idea what your doing, no idea how stuff works and no idea how to drive.

Until you can actually prove these times with more than a timeslip that has no date alongside a date that has been shown to not have had raced an AU you cannot claim this time.

I care not for any further argument on this subject until proof can be shown and any further posts on this topic will be deleted with "Inappropriate Post" warnings issued.

Also if you want to make comments like your last two paragraphs then this is not the place for you. Any further instances of this will see warnings issued.

[xr8ute]

Originally Posted by The Monty

What are the effects of running 9lb of boost with a supercharger, on an already pretty highly modified AU i6?
Josh

A setup that makes 9psi boost on a std engine, will make less than 9psi boost on a well modified engine, because the difference in the volume of air the compressor is moving, and the engine is moving will be less. Not a bad thing though, as less pressure means less heat, so you can run more timing.

From what I understand, centrifugal blowers work very well on engines that are already well modified N/A. Static compression is probably the only area where you might comprimise your ability to get the most out of a blower on a previously n/a setup. This is very different to turbo setups of course because the exhaust drives the blower so the ideal valve timing is very different.

You should read up a little on fuel pressure and the affect on injector flow.
There is a good reason why Stav and Stiddy are making more power than you are on the std injectors before maxing them out.

Swapping to those XR6T injectors wont be of any help at all if you continue to use the std fuel reg.

[Fordfan4u]

Actually the right cam selection in a blown set up can ultimately lower the static compression allowing for slightly higher levels of boost and more power. But you also need a cam focused more on the exhaust side of things to get things really moving along. Which alot of the 'big' n/a cams do anyway.
Again it comes down to you, have to know what your doing before you go slapping things together and have a good tuner. From readying monty's build thread, he doesn't have either. Something is just not right.

[Badcooky]

Just stick it on and see how it goes.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by xr8ute

A setup that makes 9psi boost on a std engine, will make less than 9psi boost on a well modified engine, because the difference in the volume of air the compressor is moving, and the engine is moving will be less. Not a bad thing though, as less pressure means less heat, so you can run more timing.

From what I understand, centrifugal blowers work very well on engines that are already well modified N/A. Static compression is probably the only area where you might comprimise your ability to get the most out of a blower on a previously n/a setup. This is very different to turbo setups of course because the exhaust drives the blower so the ideal valve timing is very different.

You should read up a little on fuel pressure and the affect on injector flow.
There is a good reason why Stav and Stiddy are making more power than you are on the std injectors before maxing them out.



Swapping to those XR6T injectors wont be of any help at all if you continue to use the std fuel reg.

Thanks for your input, its what I was after.
As for what the car is making, the power output is fine as far as I can see. 152kw @ 4900 rpm, where tuning was halted due to lack of fuel, plenty left in it. The only problem I had first off was a dud tune, nothing else.
Also 410nm of torque, 5nm shy of Stiddy, must be something majorly wrong with something, obviously.... :togo:


Both you AND Stiddy who I was talking to on MSN BOTH claim the car launches at 5800rpm on STREET tyres. 16's to be exact. I even had a PM from you stating this.

The head apparently flows 490hp, from STIDDYS mouth, he was dissapointed, and wanted 100hp more flow, which he wanted to do before going again. Talking to anyone elses thats tuned an NA six all come to the conclusion that porting an AU head much more than cleaning up the ports ands smoothing dags etc, will result in a power loss, unless running big compression, or E85. Ring Chiptorque or Headsense, ask, they will let you know.


And me ending up with a scrap heap, lol. Whats your car again? Whats it run, wheres it sbuild thread, what HP does it make etc etc? Im not here to get personal on attacking peoples cars. You came here directly to do that, to be honest I couldnt give a poop what you think, your a nobody on this forum, and will remain so with one of the most pathetic attitudes Ive ever seen on this forum.
Thanks for everyone elses help, I appreciate it, what I dont appreciate is people coming into a thread I made for ME, and getting flamed by someone who knows not me, or anything about what I do or know.

Back on topic please, if this goes any further, please mods delete it, Id rather not have trouble caused by a thread I started.

Josh

[Fordfan4u]

LoL my car? which one.
The reason I dont have a build thread is because I sold my BA XR8 and dont have a Ford anymore.
Now ive got a VL turbo, RB25 conversion, which so far is making 340rwkw. Aiming for 365rwkw once I get new coil packs and more boost. Not run at wsid yet.
Ive also got a Mazda RX7 series ll 13b turbo making 220rwkw, 13.3 @ 111mph. Wait for it.. on street tyres! lol.
Although I have been tempted to buy your monty.. I heard that thing is a weapon ;)

Your clearly talking to and dealing with the wrong people when it comes to modding an I6 if you think you can't make power from porting the head amoungst other things.
Man, you dont make any sence. SO what that your 5nm off his? So what he launches at 5800rpm on 16in streets, whats that got to do with the price of eggs in china?
To clear it up, I didnt come here to attack your car, I came here to stop you from rubbishing his.
Maybe you should stick to your mechano set, get that right first before attempting to build a car.

I get big entertainment from people like you
A quick tip though, change your damn fuel pressure regulator and go get a re tune, With your mods if you dont make close to or over 170rwkw, get a new tuner.
A little work to these things will net you the same power a raptor charger will get on an OHC I6, which is 180rwkw to 190rwkw.

[The Monty]

Thanks for explaining it to me, though I never had mechano, maybe that explains something, lol.
The Fuel pressure regulator will be getting changed, but not till after I get married, so it will happen in August.
Id be rather supprised to see 170kw on an auto, but 160 - 165 I dont think is too unrealistic.
Sorry for getting this into a flame fest, mods, please delete me posts if you feel necessary.
Ill get there, this kind of discussion only makes me want it more. I have help from a lot of top blokes who have done all this kind of work, and have run some of the best numbers, I listen to them, they have already told me what I need to replace.
But I also listen to what others have to say, sometimes anyway.

[Fordfan4u]

lol no mechano set, that sucks. Lego?
Its not hard to make power from these, both n/a and boosted. Its just more of a challenge n/a and alot more expensive.
I have done this kind of work on a few 6's, thats why i'm getting all defensive when being told its rubbish or doesn't make sence. Anyone would.

I could talk about tricking these things up all day, believe me the drunken arguments I get into with stiddy over it go on for hrs and i'd be happy to chat to you about it properly another time. The pub is calling.

[blueoval]

Interesting read The Monty. I hope you find what your looking for