201KW for VE?

brendan24688 · 12-01-2006, 11:20 AM

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...d.php?p=469183

The new Buick Enclave (concept) has a 201KW 3.6L. Could this be dropped in the VE also??

Power and efficiency

Enclave rides on a 119-inch wheelbase and is powered by a 3.6L high-feature V-6 with dual-overhead camshafts and variable valve timing. Enclave’s powerful V-6 offers one of the category’s most fuel-efficient options. The engine is rated at 270 horsepower (201 kw) and is backed by a six-speed automatic transmission. This luxury SUV also has all-wheel drive and four-wheel independent suspension.

Des · 12-01-2006, 11:29 AM

With the extra weight it'll need more Nm not Kw's, especially lower down.

parawolf · 12-01-2006, 11:57 AM

Yes but at what revs does it generate that power? What Nm is it making across the range? Remember, an RX-8 produces ~177kw at ~8200rpm, but only about 211Nm at 5500rpm. Compare to another car in the segment is a 350Z, 206kW and 363Nm.

The 350Z has a worse kg/kw ratio than the RX-8, however its 0-100 and 400m times beat the RX-8. Why? its kg/Nm craps on the RX-8 (4.00kg/Nm vs 6.42kg/Nm).

More kW doesn't equal more performance.

Walkinshaw · 12-01-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parawolf

More kW doesn't equal more performance.

It equals sales though

parawolf · 12-01-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

It equals sales though

Righto... so with the Falcon having more kW and more Nm than the Holden Commodore, which sold more again month on month?

phat_stak_tipa · 12-01-2006, 09:52 PM

Yeah that would be like holden 2 shove a crap yank motor into a commodore e.g the GEN 3 oil muncher hahahahahahaha

chevypower · 12-01-2006, 10:09 PM

umm the 5.4 is a Yankee motor - available in the US from 1997, available in OZ 5 yrs later

parawolf · 12-01-2006, 10:12 PM

chevypower, don't bait the trolls. We don't really care a great deal what someone with 4 posts has to say when they come out with comments like that...

phat_stak_tipa · 13-01-2006, 12:58 AM

i think the name of this site is FORD FORUMS there is no space for Holden ooops i mean chev if u visit a FORD forum expect a bagging blue blood sounds like you got chev blood sorry mate been spending money on cars not the net otherwise would have been here earlier telling it how it is CHEERS

rodderz · 13-01-2006, 01:12 AM

Correct, this is a Fordforum, but other news is welcomed of other manufacturers too

phat_stak_tipa · 13-01-2006, 01:18 AM

yeah just mucking around as a die hard ford supporter for all my life ive copped crap for years for liking fords just givn a little back. its funny some of the ford guys arked up pretty quick (parawolf) all i said was the truth but it obviously hurt which that tends to do have a good 1 rodderz

pauljh74 · 13-01-2006, 01:49 PM

I have doubts the VE will get the upgraded motor because they just spent a little money making it Euro 3 compliant and if they were going to introduce an upgrade in the VE in such a short time. It probably would have been more economical to just upgrade it now.

parawolf · 13-01-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phat_stak_tipa

yeah just mucking around as a die hard ford supporter for all my life ive copped crap for years for liking fords just givn a little back. its funny some of the ford guys arked up pretty quick (parawolf) all i said was the truth but it obviously hurt which that tends to do have a good 1 rodderz

No it didn't "HURT" and all you were doing was flogging a dead horse which was covered years ago. Your comment lacked intelligence, lacked a basis, and lacked relevance.

Falcon Freak · 13-01-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phat_stak_tipa

yeah just mucking around as a die hard ford supporter for all my life ive copped crap for years for liking fords just givn a little back. its funny some of the ford guys arked up pretty quick (parawolf) all i said was the truth but it obviously hurt which that tends to do have a good 1 rodderz

Keep dishing it out son - you have our support.

FF

Ryan · 13-01-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phat_stak_tipa

i think the name of this site is FORD FORUMS there is no space for Holden ooops i mean chev if u visit a FORD forum expect a bagging blue blood sounds like you got chev blood sorry mate been spending money on cars not the net otherwise would have been here earlier telling it how it is CHEERS

Yet aint it funny how alot of the discussion that goes on here is about Holdens?

E.g this thread

_

Like someone said yes this is a Ford forum but other manufacturars are welcome.

Holden is not Chev, yes they use their engines but they are not Chev.

Just tellling it how it is.

Deadman · 13-01-2006, 03:57 PM

By the time Ford bring out the new 'Orion' model, I doubt any Falcon in their line up (bar the LPG version) will have less than 200kW. I'd be more impressed though if along with that, no model (bar the LPG version) had less than 400Nm. Both are pretty probable IMO.

Anyhow - back on track. With the expected weight the new Holden models are going to gain - Nm should definately be more of a focus than kW. I doubt the engine will change in the VE - but isn't most of the new weight in the VE coming from the new V8? I still don't think the VE V6 will be as heavy as the BF I6... V8's are another story though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by VY18s

Like someone said yes this is a Ford forum but other manufacturars are welcome.

Depends what you mean by "welcome"

: kidding... ;)

phat_stak_tipa · 13-01-2006, 04:59 PM

hahahahaha ark up boys just proves my point not to worry lets get on with life.

YOOT · 13-01-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadman

By the time Ford bring out the new 'Orion' model, I doubt any Falcon in their line up (bar the LPG version) will have less than 200kW. I'd be more impressed though if along with that, no model (bar the LPG version) had less than 400Nm. Both are pretty probable IMO.

Anyhow - back on track. With the expected weight the new Holden models are going to gain - Nm should definately be more of a focus than kW. I doubt the engine will change in the VE - but isn't most of the new weight in the VE coming from the new V8? I still don't think the VE V6 will be as heavy as the BF I6... V8's are another story though...

Depends what you mean by "welcome"

: kidding... ;)

I don't know all the details but I do know form Motor that the smallest wheel size on the VE will be 17" even on the pov pack executives because PBR are fitting 300mm rotors as the standard brakes which are designed to cope with the VE's extra bulk. Expect the VE (all models) to be much heavier and closer to BA (possibly even exceed).

Bossxr8 · 13-01-2006, 07:32 PM

The Alloytec VE's will be absolute slugs if they put on all that extra weight, they don't have much in the way of torque to start with, and if Holden put tall ratios in them to boost economy like they have stated they will they will be smashed by any Ford 6.

gmhdriver · 13-01-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Alloytec VE's will be absolute slugs if they put on all that extra weight, they don't have much in the way of torque to start with, and if Holden put tall ratios in them to boost economy like they have stated they will they will be smashed by any Ford 6.

I don't think they lack torque as much as it is made out to be, I mean 320/340Nm aren't exactly low figures, but rather as you mentioned it is the the tall ratios which give the impression of a lack of low down torque. The VZ's are fitted with 2.75 final drive ratios... I would like to see what an alloytec would go like with 3.45's.

Bossxr8 · 13-01-2006, 07:51 PM

Most of the power is up top, so they need to be reved to get going. Thats why they are considered to lack low down torque. The 2.75 diff ratio isn't the problem as it would have a low 1st gear in the gearbox to compansate, just like the ZF in the BF has a 2.78 diff ratio but a really low first gear.

vztrt · 13-01-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendan24688

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...d.php?p=469183

The new Buick Enclave (concept) has a 201KW 3.6L. Could this be dropped in the VE also??

There was talk that the alloytec(wasn't calling it that at the time) was going to have 200kw. I doubt that holden would change the motor so quickly after just releasing this one. The Ecotec was in four models (about 10 years) and I believe that the power wasn't raised (152kw) since it was sold. Also I agree that they could make the motor 200kw but if it dosn't have torque to back it up than the engine would be useless on such a heavy car.

gmhdriver · 13-01-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

There was talk that the alloytec(wasn't calling it that at the time) was going to have 200kw. I doubt that holden would change the motor so quickly after just releasing this one. The Ecotec was in four models (about 10 years) and I believe that the power wasn't raised (152kw) since it was sold. Also I agree that they could make the motor 200kw but if it dosn't have torque to back it up than the engine would be useless on such a heavy car.

The Ecotec was originally 147kW and 304Nm and was raised to 152Kw and 305Nm with the introduction of the VX. Not much of an increase I know, but an increase nonetheless.

vztrt · 13-01-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmhdriver

The Ecotec was originally 147kW and 304Nm and was raised to 152Kw and 305Nm with the introduction of the VX. Not much of an increase I know, but an increase nonetheless.

I stand corrected.

The higher end models have 190kw so the raise to 201 couldn't be that hard, but is the alloytec Euro3 compliant or have they had to do that for the VE model?

FPV8U · 13-01-2006, 08:20 PM

Alloytec has no Torque so VE V6's will be slow whether it has 200Kw or not, having a base model neer 1900Kg isn't going to be good for economy especially when the auto will have to hunt gears as the engine has no "grunt".

gmhdriver · 13-01-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Alloytec has no Torque

It is not that the Alloytec 'has no torque', but rather where in the rev range it is produced and what sort of ratios are utilised. The Ecotec had significantly less torque (305Nm) yet it was always praised for having very good low down torque.

xdclevo · 13-01-2006, 10:44 PM

Peak and averages are very different things. Peaks are for freaks. haha