Holden Nationalised?

ltd · 05-05-2009, 09:26 AM

Just heard Ross Greenwood and Alan Jones talking on the radio about the almost "done deal" status of the federal government looking to buy out Holden from the failed GM parent.
Apparently, this has been on the cards for some time and they have been exhaustively (in Rudds case it means about 10 seconds of thought) looking into the potential public voter backlash should they buy out the ailing Holden.

What is genuinely concerning though, is the potential rivers of taxpayer cash splashed around Holden for R&D, gifting Holden an albeit unfair comparitive advantage. Whilst painfully aware of the potential ramifications of Holden closure on Fords part suppliers, surely there must be a better solution than nationalisation when we as a nation are already in hock to the Chinese government up to 300 billion through stimulus and other packages. Is this what we want part of the 300 billion spent on? Better yet, as we as a nation will be paying back over 500 billion to the chinese in the next 30 odd years, do we want part of that debt to be Holden?

csv8 · 05-05-2009, 09:31 AM

Maybe FIAT can buy Holden!!!! They are in talks to buy GM Europe !

KITBAG · 05-05-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

do we want part of that debt to be Holden?

NO WAY

4Vman · 05-05-2009, 09:34 AM

The people's republic of Australia will have the "peoples" car now...

Dave_au · 05-05-2009, 09:42 AM

God help us all.

SLO AU XR8 · 05-05-2009, 09:43 AM

I'm off to New Zealand....

ltd · 05-05-2009, 09:51 AM

What gets me here is the number of conflicts of interest this would pose. For example, would the federal and state governments buy solely Holden vehicles for their fleets? Would there be extra special tax sweeteners on Holden purchases? Would there be a potential influence on government policy with Holden in mind? Would delegates from the government oversee Holdens operations or even represent Holden at meetings with various heads of governments from across the world? Would Holden after being given favourable trading conditions be made to contribute rivers of cash to ALP coffers just as several building companies in NSW have been?

Seriously, this is a dumb move by a dumb government voted for by dumb people. DUMB.

Wally · 05-05-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

.........when we as a nation are already in hock to the Chinese government up to 300 billion through stimulus and other packages. Is this what we want part of the 300 billion spent on? Better yet, as we as a nation will be paying back over 500 billion to the chinese in the next 30 odd years, do we want part of that debt to be Holden?

I'm sadly lacking when it comes to understanding the $300b federal spend/borrowings figure quoted. I'd really appreciate it if you could reveal the composition?

RG · 05-05-2009, 10:00 AM

How about someone provide some firm evidence of this occurring as opposed to knee jerk opposition.

I can find nothing about this happening on any of the news sites.

**Peuty** · 05-05-2009, 10:01 AM

Alan Jones - that's a credible source right there.

Road_Warrior · 05-05-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peuty

Alan Jones - that's a credible source right there.

+1 smells like BS and Alan Jones is one of the nation's biggest douchebags.

JPFS1 · 05-05-2009, 10:19 AM

Bs..!!!!

ltd · 05-05-2009, 10:20 AM

Wally, the Rudd govt. already borrowed 200 billion for all the stimulus packages, now upon releasing a third they have borrowed another 100 billion from the same Chinese source (the reason for the secret meeting in Canberra). Simply put, 200 plus 100 equals 300. If you want proof, look up Hansard where Wayne Swan, Turnbull and Rudd argue about it. Funnily enough, after incurring the biggest debt in Australias history they actually have the stupidity to call it a "Temporary Deficit".
Here's an un-editorialised reference to the news, there are however other countless references on the net, but with opinions attached.
http://www.istockanalyst.com/article...icleid/3205654

Fairlane · 05-05-2009, 10:23 AM

Absolute BS. Ive got my pulse on this and their is no way the government is going to nataionalise Holden. END OF STORY

Eu-GenixX · 05-05-2009, 10:27 AM

we have not borrowed that amount yet... that is the limit set should we need to borrow more money...

the stimulus packages have been 42 billion and 10 billion... no where near your quoted 200 billion...

and on topic.... yeah.. i call BS on this story as well... it will never happen

ltd · 05-05-2009, 10:34 AM

Well, Ross Greenwood for starters. He's a finance guru with alot of treasury connections and is rather apolitical, I'm pretty sure that if he felt comfortable enough to go public with the story, there must be some gravitas to it.

Wally · 05-05-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Wally, the Rudd govt. already borrowed 200 billion for all the stimulus packages, now upon releasing a third they have borrowed another 100 billion from the same Chinese source (the reason for the secret meeting in Canberra). Simply put, 200 plus 100 equals 300. If you want proof, look up Hansard where Wayne Swan, Turnbull and Rudd argue about it. Funnily enough, after incurring the biggest debt in Australias history they actually have the stupidity to call it a "Temporary Deficit".
Here's an un-editorialised reference to the news, there are however other countless references on the net, but with opinions attached.
http://www.istockanalyst.com/article...icleid/3205654

I did a bit of ferretting myself and also found the source seems to be the Australian Newspaper making it's own news. As I understand it, the figure is a secured ceiling for use in the event funds are needed, not actual borrowings and spends, although all will be revealed when the budget paper is read.

I also had a looksee at the Green Car innovation Fund to see if there was any bias to Holden, but the details are sketchy.

I can't see the Govt would buy into Holden. Maybe the future fund would to offset it's poor performing taxpayer funded 2 billion shares in Telstra.

ltd · 05-05-2009, 10:37 AM

Here's a little foray into the topic from November last year.

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/st...sm_ate_itself/

Dave_au · 05-05-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Wally, the Rudd govt. already borrowed 200 billion for all the stimulus packages, now upon releasing a third they have borrowed another 100 billion from the same Chinese source (the reason for the secret meeting in Canberra). Simply put, 200 plus 100 equals 300. If you want proof, look up Hansard where Wayne Swan, Turnbull and Rudd argue about it. Funnily enough, after incurring the biggest debt in Australias history they actually have the stupidity to call it a "Temporary Deficit".
Here's an un-editorialised reference to the news, there are however other countless references on the net, but with opinions attached.
http://www.istockanalyst.com/article...icleid/3205654

Could you post link to said Hansard of which you speak.

Also http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...8-7583,00.html

**GasoLane** · 05-05-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Just heard Ross Greenwood and Alan Jones talking on the radio

Ye gods, do people still listen to Alan Jones!!

flappist · 05-05-2009, 10:43 AM

What the hell are you all whinging about???

The Kevin Rudd commodore?

So incredibly slow that you are never sure it is actually moving
ridiculously expensive with extra costs added randomly.
Will only work 3-4 days a week at odd hours and only in suburbs or towns that are nowhere near your house.
Wanders off in strange directions for no understandable reason
Only goes for a short time before it fails and then a you have to get a whole new one the is better than the old one even though it seems exactly the same but with new blinkers.
Has at least 4 steering wheels because it requires a commitee to make any operational decissions.
The first one will be delivered a week after the replacement model is announced.
Halfway though the production it will be scrapped but all the deposits paid will be kept and used for "anti binge driving education".
The drivers manual will be available in Mandarin, Shanghaiese AND Cantonese with an english translation service available for a small fee on 1900 KEVSMATES.

BUT, it will look good on TV........

ltd · 05-05-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eu-GenixX

we have not borrowed that amount yet... that is the limit set should we need to borrow more money...

the stimulus packages have been 42 billion and 10 billion... no where near your quoted 200 billion...

and on topic.... yeah.. i call BS on this story as well... it will never happen

Um, I think you'll find that that's 43 billion for stimulus 2, and 11.8 for stuimulus 1. Further, there's the 47 billion for the internet thing, 24 billion for the carbon credits thing, and around 60 billion for the budgetary shortfall. Want to check your numbers again?

Eu-GenixX · 05-05-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Um, I think you'll find that that's 43 billion for stimulus 2, and 11.8 for stuimulus 1. Further, there's the 47 billion for the internet thing, 24 billion for the carbon credits thing, and around 60 billion for the budgetary shortfall. Want to check your numbers again?

you said 200 billion to cover stimulus packages.. so no i won't check my numbers again...

all other things you've quoted there are not 'add ons'... and would have been included in the original budget... except for the budget shortfall of course

the point i was making tho... is that we have not borrowed 200 billion... thats just what we can borrow...

ltd · 05-05-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eu-GenixX

you said 200 billion to cover stimulus packages.. so no i won't check my numbers again...

all other things you've quoted there are not 'add ons'... and would have been included in the original budget... except for the budget shortfall of course

the point i was making tho... is that we have not borrowed 200 billion... thats just what we can borrow...

Pretty darn close to it, and I think you'll find everything that the government is announcing spending on is part of an overall "economic stimulus". That includes the broadband thingy and other dumb things. What some of you don't know either is that Kevin bought a new BBJ (737 business Jet), so he now has two. Only cost $A140 million, nice huh? I think we are arguing in semantics here, what he has thus announced as policy or what he is to do in this term is over 200 billion (it has to be budgeted for) and the extension of 200 to 300 billion recently announced is to cover the budget shortfall and contingency. Stimulus 3 is slated to be 67 billion, and that is being enacted as we speak (this is the infrastructure package, sort of to help bail out the states)

ltd · 05-05-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Could you post link to said Hansard of which you speak.

Also http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...8-7583,00.html

Here you go mate, its pretty lengthy though.

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr110309.pdf - 2007k

RG · 05-05-2009, 11:02 AM

And how is this all directly linked to Holden allegedly being bought by the govt?

Talk about off topic, actually I'm not even sure whether this thread actually has a topic anyway considering it is wholly based on what someone heard yet is not reported.

Scott · 05-05-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

What the hell are you all whinging about???

The Kevin Rudd commodore?

It will:

*Be released to the Chinese before Australia - so they don't have to worry about us attacking their industry;
*It will eat the contents of its own ashtray;
*It will be advertised with fantastic emission levels but they will be come later, maybe in 2011, maybe in 2020 - regardless, they will say "sorry";
*A free one will be delivered to every person who paid tax last year and earned less than $100k - those who earned over $100k can pick one up for $200k;
*If it's your first car, the Govt will chip in $14k;
*The unions will have unfettered control of the workplace - extended to all Australian Auto Workers;
*Bosses will be flown to China by their mates to investigate emerging technologies to invest in.... for the Kruddydore of course;
*Aged pensioners will not be allowed to have one;
*It will "wage WAR" on something, anything...;
*Holden employees will be entitled to "happiness meetings" to help perk them up;

I just can't see (well, maybe I can...) our Government being so stupid to buy a failing business.... with some hope of the ALP fixing it

ltd · 05-05-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

And how is this all directly linked to Holden allegedly being bought by the govt?

Talk about off topic, actually I'm not even sure whether this thread actually has a topic anyway considering it is wholly based on what someone heard yet is not reported.

I was asked to verify my claims with Hansard, so I posted a link. Irregardless, I heard Ross Greenwood who seems to be well connected and politically neutral talk about what treasury and government officials have been talking about for a few months in spite of Opel being sold off in the UK, and the continuing woes of GM. According to Ross's sources in the government, it is pretty much a done deal as GM faces bankruptcy and its local arm Holden would be up for sale. I have not known Ross to be political in any way, nor does he tend to editorialise his reports. He is known by most members here as a finance guru who works for channel 9. Most of his speculations actually come true such as interest rates etc, and most rhumours of buy outs and mergers actualise. Either way, I thought this would make an interesting topic for ford fans. I did not say it was definate, I qualified it as speculation but from a reliable source.

RG · 05-05-2009, 11:28 AM

Regardless, just because one person says he believes it may be happening does not mean it is actually going to happen.

Smoke Pursuit · 05-05-2009, 11:47 AM

Wouldnt worry me if it did.. May give the Australian Automotive industry some stability.. save some jobs and future!!

At the end of the day I reckon we are going to be left with only one big car sooner then later... I would rather a Commodore then a toyota thanks, while most people here say they are crap they are nearly on par with the Falcon, specially when fitted with a 6 litre V8.