Holden plans Commodore able to run on 85% ethanol as standard

[csv8]

Holden plans Commodore able to run on 85% ethanol as standard
BARRY PARK
August 2, 2010
Holden is expected to announce today that it will soon rely on alcohol to future-proof Australia's best-selling car against dwindling world oil supplies.

The carmaker is expected to unveil a version of the Commodore that can run on anything from 100 per cent petrol to E85, a combination of 15 per cent petrol and 85 per cent ethanol, while Caltex will trial a chain of E85 fuelling stations in a joint venture that will help both companies develop a strategy for introducing the fuel nationally.

The fuel is also expected to cost a lot less at the pump, with ethanol production costs running at about 50¢ a litre.

Caltex said its ''Bio E-Flex'' fuel would ''offer an energy option beyond the traditional fuel mix that can significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions''.

''Caltex will be profiling the new fuel in Melbourne before it begins its national roll-out of the product,'' the company said. The ethanol-blended fuels would offer ''an energy option beyond the traditional fuel mix that can significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions''.

Holden is expected to announce that it will soon be standard for Commodore engines to have E85 compatibility.

Owners will be able to decide if they want to refuel with petrol or any other combination of the fuel-ethanol mix up to E85.

While Holden has not sold an E85-compatible car in Australia before, Saab - at the time owned by General Motors, the same US parent as Holden - has tried to attract buyers to the fuel.

Saab's 9-5 BioPower, introduced to Australia in 1997, struggled after it was stifled by the limited availability of E85 refuelling stations. It was quietly dropped from Australian showrooms this year, shortly before the cash-strapped GM sold the Swedish carmaker to the Dutch sports car company Spyker.

The 9-5 used about 30 per cent more fuel when running on E85 than when with petrol alone, although the engine did perform better while running on the fuel and produced significantly lower exhaust emissions.

Holden is expected to announce E85 compatibility for its 3.0-litre and 3.6-litre V6 engines, while an E85-compatible version of its 6.0-litre V8 engine is tied to an export program that is developing Chevrolet-badged Commodores as police cars for the US.

My comment...sugar belongs in my coffee ..not my tank...

[Gobes32]

As per most Holden press releases, I would rather a timeframe than to be told it is coming "soon".......

[atec77]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

As per most Holden press releases, I would rather a timeframe than to be told it is coming "soon".......

I hear of some South American countries running a lot of Methanol in cars
SO if holden actually get there it still wont be anything new

[fg_nitro]

unofficially its been on the cards for a while. Last I heard it they were going to have browsers at Holden Dealerships.

I would like to see the official fuel figures as well. Might be cheaper but you will use more of it. Depends on the tune i guess.


http://www.chevrolet.com/experience/...ions/biofuels/

[MAD]

Export commodores are already capable of E85 arent they?
I guess this will just be a marketing exercise as per usual.

[Mr Hardware]

educate me here

if people want a high-octane, low energy content per litre fuel
why don't they just go with the one that is excise exempt (LPG) rather than the one that attracts the exact same amount of excise as regular unleaded?

IMO they cannot possibly sell E85 cheap enough to make it better value for money than regular unleaded, let alone LPG

[mik]

will the benifit of being slightlycheaper be outweighed by extra fuel needed? if every one was to go the ethanol mix will supply and demand negate the cost benefits of useing this fuel? is Lpg cleaner than ethanol blend?

[Jason[98.EL]]

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11301726

they have been spin mongering this for ages

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by atec77

I hear of some South American countries running a lot of Methanol in cars
SO if holden actually get there it still wont be anything new

Brazil has run on ethanol for well over 15yrs.

Ethanol was made in Australia during WW2 because of the high demand.

And if you watch "Duel" (1971) Speilbergs first movie, Dennis Weaver fills his old car with "Ethol".

Seemingly it takes forever for car manufacturers and the oil companies to do things?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Wonder if the engines will be a specific option or an across the board fitment?

I'm guessing that tunes and engine settings will be different depending on what goes in the tank.

In mums old 1994 Barina they had a module in the engine bay, sorta like a plug. If you had it in one way it was calibrated to run on 91 and if you flipped the module the other way it was calibrated to run on 95. Don't know what it actually did however.

Re the 'sugar in coffee only' comments. I bet those sentiments will that change pretty quickly for most people if E85 is sold at a good discount, say 20c a litre less than ULP.

Cheers.

[Ghiadude]

this is the difference between holden and ford marketing. Holden does something mediocre (e85) compatible and its on the NEWS(on seven news tonight) Ford does something terrific T6 engineering and now T6 wagon and youll barely hear a whisper...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Wonder if the engines will be a specific option or an across the board fitment?

Cheers.

Standard on all models.

Holden is expected to announce that it will soon be standard for Commodore engines to have E85 compatibility.

[Nikked]

Model-T Ford could run on Ethanol....

[jmack]

at 20c a litre cheaper that works out to about 15% cheaper and they reckon u use about 30% more so in the words of a famous ranga that aint movin ffoooorrrrrwwwwaaaarrrd ill stiil have 2 in my coffee thanks

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Model-T Ford could run on Ethanol....

All cars can run on ethanol.
The biggest issue is that the alcohol attacks some rubbers.
So hoses, o-rings and diaphrams wont last as long.
Ethanol has been around for a very long time but its never been really accepted?

The oil companies dont like to loose their stranglehold they have.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Standard on all models.

Thanks for clearing that up. Reading the first line "The carmaker is expected to unveil a version of the Commodore that can run on anything from 100 per cent petrol to E85" sounded like it was an option, or an addition to the usual lineup of models.

Must have missed the bit you quoted.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by jmack

at 20c a litre cheaper that works out to about 15% cheaper and they reckon u use about 30% more so in the words of a famous ranga that aint movin ffoooorrrrrwwwwaaaarrrd ill stiil have 2 in my coffee thanks

Oh FFS... (not just you)


Its not about saving money, its about moving from oil based fuels, Ethanol gives us the use of internal combustion engines instead of toy car motors.
Why does every one have to be so pessimistic, if this was a Ford announcement we would embrace it.

Ethenol fuel is a welcome step, i only hope Ford see the same way.

Ecoboost + Ethanol...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by jmack

at 20c a litre cheaper that works out to about 15% cheaper and they reckon u use about 30% more so in the words of a famous ranga that aint movin ffoooorrrrrwwwwaaaarrrd ill stiil have 2 in my coffee thanks

True, but like all things, with further development, efficiencies in the consumption will improve.

Look at higher consumption and lower outputs of the first LPG cars, and look at what they use and put out now when better and more efficient fuel delivery systems are used.

[mik]

edit delete

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Oh FFS... (not just you)
Its not about saving money, its about moving from oil based fuels, Ethanol gives us the use of internal combustion engines instead of toy car motors.
Why does every one have to be so pessimistic, if this was a Ford announcement we would embrace it.
Ethenol fuel is a welcome step, i only hope Ford see the same way.
Ecoboost + Ethanol...

Well its all probably a matter of priorities. As per the following aritcle

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/f...-1111115400281

A little boy in africa doesnt give a crap about how much petrol someone puts in his commodore, and its implication on the oil price because he aint interested in driving a car. But when his mum cant buy bread, because the local farmer is able to get more money for his wheat to be converted to ethanol, then the little boy has an issue.

50 cents to produce a litre of ethanol, it sound slike the author works for Holden Marketing. The stories a complete ****, and only allows Holden to sell a car, that runs on the rubbish produced by the companies marketing department.

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Well its all probably a matter of priorities. As per the following aritcle

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/f...-1111115400281

A little boy in africa doesnt give a crap about how much petrol someone puts in his commodore, and its implication on the oil price because he aint interested in driving a car. But when his mum cant buy bread, because the local farmer is able to get more money for his wheat to be converted to ethanol, then the little boy has an issue.

50 cents to produce a litre of ethanol, it sound slike the author works for Holden Marketing. The stories a complete ****, and only allows Holden to sell a car, that runs on the rubbish produced by the companies marketing department.

Shesh, now you bring that up. Stuff the boy in Africa and his loaf of bread - someone needs to teach him how to hunt.
I'm worried about how much more I'll have to pay for my morning piece of Toast, bowl of wheeties and cup of coffee with TWO sugars.
All this because Holden wants to sell a few more cars.

Well I'll do my bit and keep driving my big V8 that runs on premium unleaded.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

All cars can run on ethanol.
The biggest issue is that the alcohol attacks some rubbers.
So hoses, o-rings and diaphrams wont last as long.

Also absorbs water just like Biodiesel.

[jamess]

The real concern is the waste of energy spent on growing the cane and producing fuel from it. It is highly innefficient in terms of acreage land use and sheer amount of fresh produce to litre of fuel. I'm all for something other than fossil based fuel but this is all marketing gimmos and not sustainable long term.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Well its all probably a matter of priorities. As per the following aritcle

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/f...-1111115400281

A little boy in africa doesnt give a crap about how much petrol someone puts in his commodore, and its implication on the oil price because he aint interested in driving a car. But when his mum cant buy bread, because the local farmer is able to get more money for his wheat to be converted to ethanol, then the little boy has an issue.

50 cents to produce a litre of ethanol, it sound slike the author works for Holden Marketing. The stories a complete ****, and only allows Holden to sell a car, that runs on the rubbish produced by the companies marketing department.

allthou i havent wasted my time reading the link..
do they say the same about biodiesel?? palm oil.

[BigBlue]

In terms of energy balance the better option for Australia is sugar cane. One energy unit in produces 8 to 9 units out. Corn is around 1 to 1.3 and cellulose ethanol is around 2.

Given we are now importing base oil products and as this will increase in the future we can expect the price of oil based fuels to rise faster than the rate of inflation ; even more so when places like China and India also want the same diminishing resource.

The price for sugar is low and growing cane to make ethanol as Brazil does (around 85% of their fuel is cane based) makes economic sense and also political sense.

The yield for cane ethanol is 6,800 ltr to 8,000 ltr / hectare.

Speaking environmentally; unleaded produces around 2.44 kg / ltr CO2 and ethanol around 1.94. so there is a good political case to be made for it on that basis alone.

Peter.

[vztrt]

Commodore to go it alone on E85 for now

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257774000BE09B

Holden set to wait on ethanol-capable Cruze when production goes local

3 August 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

HOLDEN’S E85 ethanol-capable ‘EcoFlex’ Commodore, due in Australian showrooms with the VE Series II update in October, is unlikely to be joined by other Holden models engineered for the bio fuel for a year or more.

Initially, only the locally made 3.0-litre SIDI V6 and imported 6.0-litre V8 are expected to get the EcoFlex engine modifications in Commodore, with the mainstream 3.6-litre SIDI V6 to follow next year, reportedly because of budget restraints.

The Cruze small car is also earmarked for the ‘flex fuel’ E85 treatment at some point after it goes into local production in sedan, hatch and wagon variants at Holden’s Elizabeth plant next year, but GoAuto understands the first models will use conventional petrol and diesel engines.

It is unclear if the belated launch of a flex-fuel Cruze has any connection with a delay in the introduction of a similar E85 four-cylinder flex-fuel engine in initial production of General Motors’ new plug-in Volt petrol-electric range-extending hybrid.

The 1.4-litre turbocharged direct injection engine was to have been engineered for the renewable but corrosive E85 fuel – made up of about 85 per cent ethanol brewed from plant material and 15 per cent petrol – by the time Volt production was ready to start in Michigan in November.

But GM has confirmed that initial Volt production will be petrol only, blaming the lack of E85 pumps in prospective US markets for its decision to delay the Volt E85 rollout that was originally one of the eco-friendly flagship’s green credentials.

American reports suggest the ethanol-capable version of Volt might appear in the second half of next year. Until then, Volts sold in the US will require premium unleaded petrol – a fuel that existing E85 engines can run on anyway.

In the Volt, the engine kicks in when the lithium-ion batteries run down, generating more electricity to extend the vehicle’s range to about 480km.

A variant of the same 1.4-litre turbo engine is set to go into the locally made Cruze, which has been developed with the aid of a federal government Green Car Innovation Fund grant.

Holden’s energy and environment director Richard Marshall told GoAuto this week that Holden’s intent for ethanol was to “basically put it on everything” that was suitable in the Holden range.

“Overall, we will be looking to match (ethanol) to those vehicles where it makes sense, where it is appropriate for that technology, but our intent is to basically put it on as many cars as possible,” he said.

He said Holden’s goal was to ultimately ‘displace’ 30 per cent of petrol consumption with ethanol.

Mr Marshall declined to be drawn on when the Cruze would get flex-fuel capability, which was mooted along with CNG and hybrid powertrains when the company announced local production of the Cruze small car in December 2008.

“Because Cruze is a global platform, there are a huge range of technologies that will be potentially available for that vehicle, and all those are being considered to see if they are appropriate and at the right time for launch in Australia,” he said.

Speaking at the unveiling of Caltex’s first E85 Bio E-Flex fuel pump – the first of 31 to be commissioned across Australia by October when Holden’s flex-fuel Commodore hits the market – Mr Marshall said Holden intended to pursue all fuel-saving technologies, not just E85.

“We are across all of them,” he said. “Our view is that we have to do all of them, that there is not one solution that is going to dominate.

“To make motoring more sustainable you have to embrace every solution.

“I know that is hard for a lot of people to get their head around, but that’s the way it has got to go.

“So we will keep working on LPG, E85 is a very significant part of it, we will be bringing Volt out here in 2012. They all form part of the overall solution.”

Mr Marshall did not rule out local production of a plug-in hybrid Cruze, a prototype of which was first shown in the US more than 12 months ago, saying: “They are all things to be considered, but we have no announcement at this point.”

Likewise, he said Holden had no immediate plans for a diesel Commodore, but “you can never say never”.

Mr Marshall said Holden’s E85 plans for Commodore would be spelled out at launch time, which GoAuto believes will be just before the Australian International Motor Show in October.

Holden already has extensive experience in ethanol engine technology, having exported flex-fuel Commodores for years to Brazil, where they are sold as Chevrolet Omegas.

The flex-fuel engines get LPG-style tougher valves and valve seats to handle the lower lubrication qualities of E85, along with modified fuel pump and fuel lines to handle the corrosiveness of ethanol.

As well, a fuel sensor that Mr Marshall likens to a “breathalyser on the fuel line” is included to detect variation in ethanol content in the fuel so the engine management system can adjust engine calibrations to suit.

The Holden engines will be able to handle blends of ethanol and petrol ranging from pure petrol to 85 per cent ethanol.

As well as flex-fuel engines, the VE II Commodore will get new-look bumpers, grilles and grilles and lights, but sheetmetal remains untouched. A revised interior will get colour touch screen.

A new 'Performance Pack' to be offered on SS and Calais will include bigger four-pot front Brembo brakes, unique 19-inch alloy wheels and stiffer suspension.

Commodore SS manuals get a 'Competition' ESC mode, as seen on Holden Special Vehicles models.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Commodore to go it alone on E85 for now

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257774000BE09B

I think the commonwhore wont get the E85 either if it was going to get it the cruise would as well

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by BigBlue

Speaking environmentally; unleaded produces around 2.44 kg / ltr CO2 and ethanol around 1.94. so there is a good political case to be made for it on that basis alone.

But you use 30% more Ethanol for a given distance. So over the same distance traveled in the real world, the total CO2 is about the same [ 1.94 + 30% is 2.522.]

[BigBlue]

Agreed, but I think that point will be lost in the political back and forth about energy independence..supporting Aussie farmers...etc.

This alternative is as much about politics as it is about engineering.

Peter.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Wonder if the engines will be a specific option or an across the board fitment?

I'm guessing that tunes and engine settings will be different depending on what goes in the tank.

with modern cars having such sophisticated computers on board, why can't they dynamically change the tune depending on what you fill it up with?