Ford cutting EV production

[kevino]

Sky is Kenetic who operate our buses on the Gc and all over Aus and Nz

The 901 eh! I ll check that out.

[jpd80]

There you go, 2,700 Mach Es sold in the USA last month , with over 13,500 of them sitting unsold at dealers nationwide.
They can’t give the thing away…….

https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/fil...es-release.pdf

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There you go, 2,700 Mach Es sold in the USA last month , with over 13,500 of them sitting unsold at dealers nationwide.
They can’t give the thing away…….

https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/fil...es-release.pdf

Might have something to do with them being so butt ugly and no one relates to them using the Mustang name. Maybe a remarket name to 'Clydesdale."

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Might have something to do with them being so butt ugly and no one relates to them using the Mustang name. Maybe a remarket name to 'Clydesdale."

For many people in the US, there’s just no compelling reason to buy and electric vehicle.
Meanwhile, the soon to be culled Edge picked up 11,000 odd sales………

[kevino]

And if you subtract total ytd Edge sales from total sales the increase for total vehicle sales is negligible over 2022

Rokwiz makes a good point. Mach E is not an attractive car.


What a dilemma
Govco and Fords investment drives Bev s

But the consumer doesn’t want Fords product

And even the T brand discounts to keep volume sales rolling on Bev s

Who is winning on Bev s

Just the Chinese?

Everyone else in USA ( other than Tesla) and Europe is pulling back on Bev s

Are Bev s not the saviour?

[Dr Smith]

We have all seen slow downs come and go, one big issue this time is almost all ICE manufacturers were into massive capital outlays ramping up their EV developments, as various international governments instigated end of ICE sales dates (which seems is being relaxed now) or higher emissions regs forcing more EV/hybrid R&D.

These same companies are also mostly still working on their ICE ranges, then you have the economic slow down mixed with cost increases on everything, early EV buyers jumped in but the mass market buyers don't want to pay 25+% more for EV's over ICE and our EV infrastructure still needs a big roll out to even begin to make it mass market viable. And the Chinese brands with better priced EV's are starting to march in....

[simon varley]

most EVs are significantly over priced compared to the ICE variants. Not so the Chinese crap. GWM and MG start at about $40k.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by simon varley

most EVs are significantly over priced compared to the ICE variants. Not so the Chinese crap. GWM and MG start at about $40k.

You are an expert with experience
Seriously
What do you think of the Mg and Byd electrics?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by kevino

You are an expert with experience

Seriously

What do you think of the Mg and Byd electrics?

I know it wasn't directed at me but I'll say that BYD and MG have a lot more experience needed. Example, the charging speeds offered are very slow (less than half Tesla). Tesla gets more range, faster charging and performance from a BYD battery than BYD themselves! Dynamically, they're not great either but they're cheap.

They also iterate very quickly so they'll catch up and surpass the rest soon.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by kevino

You are an expert with experience
Seriously
What do you think of the Mg and Byd electrics?

lets put it this way - I hired an MG when I was in the UK. Apart from being a gutless, underpowered, random steering, noisy pos, the traffic sign recognition on the dash, was different to what it showed on the nav display.

[kypez]

According to your link, all EVs sales are up bar Karma.

[jpd80]

Lower USA Sales of ICE vehicles is understandable due to strikes and stood down workers,
more than buyers going off the boil. So maybe November will be a better month….

Hearing that Ford Aust has hundreds of orders for Mach E, around 60% are the high series GTs (over $100k).
I guess some people want what they want but a lot of Mach E buyers are new to Ford, not just avid fans.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Lower USA Sales of ICE vehicles is understandable due to strikes and stood down workers, more than buyers going off the boil.

Hearing that Ford Aust has hundreds of orders for Mach E, around 60% are the high series GTs (over $100k).
I guess some people want what they want but a lot of Mach E buyers are new to Ford, not just avid fans.

First wave. Well be interesting to see how to goes in 12 months.

I wish it all the success because I do like the car.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

First wave. Well be interesting to see how to goes in 12 months.

I wish it all the success because I do like the car.

It feels like when Endura arrived here with highish prices and had already failed in Europe.
IMO was brought her to get sales to recover RHD development costs from European stuff up.

I consider high price of Mach E the same, they’re loading the cost of RHD Development on them
and that sucks….

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It feels like when Endura arrived here with highish prices and had already failed in Europe.

IMO was brought her to get sales to recover RHD development costs from European stuff up.



I consider high price of Mach E the same, they’re loading the cost of RHD Development on them

and that sucks….

Funnily, I wrote about the Endura in my response and deleted it. 100% Endura vibes with this one.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

Funnily, I wrote about the Endura in my response and deleted it. 100% Endura vibes with this one.

And even with sales in the hundreds, Mach E should be quite profitable, especially if interest in GT holds up

[kypez]

Policy drives behaviour. Add LCT and no tax breaks on dual cab utes and I'd love to see if the numbers continue the way they have been.

The basic issue is that it is not a free market due to policies. Policy drives how the market behaves.

[Sprintey]

Absolutely agree that there isn't a true free market as of policy intervention, in so many areas. Within that framework, people follow what they believe, and 'crowd source' solutions - maybe that is a better term than going full Adam Smith.

Given that, why are we seeing the customers fall back for Ford, VW, Jeep & Stellantis, GM in their EV offerings? Price/economy/product/competitor behaviour/customer psychology/something else?

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Absolutely agree that there isn't a true free market as of policy intervention, in so many areas. Within that framework, people follow what they believe, and 'crowd source' solutions - maybe that is a better term than going full Adam Smith.

Given that, why are we seeing the customers fall back for Ford, VW, Jeep & Stellantis, GM in their EV offerings? Price/economy/product/competitor behaviour/customer psychology/something else?

Because most of those manufacturers make average EV,s , average range ,average battery spec , charge times

I guess people look at them and think how long defore they're out dated .? ....resale ?

Look at Hyundai how much has there reputation been damaged by all the battery fires from their LG batteries? ,.....It's like they've all made half hearted attempts at it because they've all thought they have to have an EV to offer in their range ? ......they're also not proven reliability wise , most are new designs and they expect you to pay a premium for them ?

[Adamz Ghia]

I’m currently in Orlando, and was talking to my Uber driver last night who was driving a Tesla Model Y. He also owns an F150 Lightning and in the 6 months he’s owned it, he’s already lost 50 miles of maximum range, and Ford has told him that is normal. He is not happy with the car at all. He expected range to drop when towing, but the amount it drops makes the it next to useless.

[Sprintey]

In this case it then looks like if you can't be at the cutting edge of battery tech, don't bother coming.

Off topic re: market intervention

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/so...ntil-june-2024

The crowd responds to the shock ban on short selling as the exchange says "This will stop thing going down!" Financial Squid Game for participants...

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I’m currently in Orlando, and was talking to my Uber driver last night who was driving a Tesla Model Y. He also owns an F150 Lightning and in the 6 months he’s owned it, he’s already lost 50 miles of maximum range, and Ford has told him that is normal. He is not happy with the car at all. He expected range to drop when towing, but the amount it drops makes the it next to useless.

That's a big drop especially in such a warm part of the world! That shouldn't be acceptable at all! I've lost 40 kms in 6 years and 160,000 kms.

I wonder if it's lost range or expectation. Like my Everest said it would do 8.5 litres/100. It hasn't come close to that number ever city or highway. So it's not lost range per say, just inaccurate testing processes (though the US method of testing is more accurate than Europe or even our own)

[Syndrome]

https://fordauthority.com/2023/06/mo...ehicles-study/

Not surprised.

[Sprintey]

This is what I'm getting at Syndrome - are we seeing a shift in psychology of the purchasers, or hardening of it against the EV?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

This is what I'm getting at Syndrome - are we seeing a shift in psychology of the purchasers, or hardening of it against the EV?

Reality bites?

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Reality bites?

Will these companies who drank too much of the Kool-Aid come cap-in-hand begging governments for bailouts or changes in legislation mandating that we must buy EVs?

Toyota's stance looks better with each passing month.

[Sprintey]

Yes.

Not that I know where to find them, but I guess you could look for the value of their bonds as they go - think of GM in 2008 and what happened there.

It'd be so weird if they bankrupted themselves by deliberately choosing a capital intensive path that their customers didn't want.

[kypez]

The problem is misinformation and misunderstanding. People keep talking about hydrogen thinking they'll be able to run their existing cars or versions of it on hydrogen.

This couldn't be further from the truth. The only way they work is with a fuel cell that is linked to an electric motor that is silent; you're not going to get your V8 running on Hydrogen. Hydrogen is also stupidly expensive even though you use less, the per KG rate is high!

The Toyota plan is that people don't realise that their cars are actually silent and not what people thought Hydrogen cars would be.

Why anyone in their right mind would want hydrogen is beyond me.

Have a watch.

https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=T6iVHvSc_tFx6M30

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

The problem is misinformation and misunderstanding. People keep talking about hydrogen thinking they'll be able to run their existing cars or versions of it on hydrogen.

This couldn't be further from the truth. The only way they work is with a fuel cell that is linked to an electric motor that is silent; you're not going to get your V8 running on Hydrogen. Hydrogen is also stupidly expensive even though you use less, the per KG rate is high!

The Toyota plan is that people don't realise that their cars are actually silent and not what people thought Hydrogen cars would be.

Why anyone in their right mind would want hydrogen is beyond me.

Have a watch.

https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=T6iVHvSc_tFx6M30

Technically you can, BMW has done it with their various V12s from the early 1990s through to their last attempt in 2007 with the Hydrogen 7.

It was a piece of **** though and it did 50L/100km on hydrogen, while making less power than on unleaded.

It doesn't have much energy by volume but by weight it does because its light AF.

The only thing that makes sense for hydrogen is fuel cells and only for commercial vehicles because of energy density of batteries sucks for commercial use, but it works fine for passenger transport.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Technically you can, BMW has done it with their various V12s from the early 1990s through to their last attempt in 2007 with the Hydrogen 7.



It was a piece of **** though and it did 50L/100km on hydrogen, while making less power than on unleaded.

Yep. That was covered in the video too. It would vent the Hydrogen if you didn't use it for a few days and had a warning not to leave the car in closed places.

So many people I talk to about hydrogen truly believe their current ICE cars will just convert to Hydrogen or the new cars will just be ICE engines running on Hydrogen. So much misinformation/misunderstanding.