Wikileaks discussion

[irish2]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Ahmm, hitler had millions butchered up front, Stalin had millions butchered up front, and i think their royal family as well, Pol pot had millions butchered up front, Edi amin had millions butchered up front as well.
Now i am quite sure if a country had a choice of NOT going to war they would take it, but when they did, look at how many men they lost trying to get to japan...And every country looks after its own interests, period...I would still prefer having the u.s.a on my side than any of the above mentioned or osama bin laden or that old IL JONG of north korea??/ or the other guy in Iran...again only my 2 cents worth but they are the better option...by far.

I was not asking what Hitler et al did or did not do. I was merely wondering why you linked them to the US?

In some of the pacific theatres the US forces killed more US forces than the Japanese did.

[red_hotxr6]

Very true....but both points were brought up during the discussion.....but then i wasnt berating anyone or abusing any one...back to wikkileaks please.....

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Er umm... so your asking the mods not to close the thread because of too many off topic posts... and you add to it by posting off topic ?

*edit*

Is the post off topic? The US want Assange dead. She was just saying how great the USA is. LOL.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Very true....but both points were brought up during the discussion.....but then i wasnt berating anyone or abusing any one...back to wikkileaks please.....

I agree with you. There will always be a superpower its just a fact of life and its not going to be us. Id much rather live under the umbrella of US influence, than that of the next likely candidate. Id still prefer we were independent and only we made our decisions.

But, the stuff about the 'leaders'' you listed doesnt alter the fact that the price of democracy, is eternal vigilance. That refers to the actions of all leaders, especially our own.

Wikileaks is certainly making that more possible.

[wrongwaynorris]

If nothing else he is a pretentious self obsessed waynker .

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshom...ofile-surfaces

[red_hotxr6]

Originally Posted by irish2

Is the post off topic? The US want Assange dead. She was just saying how great the USA is. LOL.

I dont know, so i am asking, did a government official or govt office come out and say they want this guy dead, or was it just a reporter saying this????

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

I dont know, so i am asking, did a government official or govt office come out and say they want this guy dead, or was it just a reporter saying this????

Um.. yes... several high profile people in the USA have.
Including the (former?) deputy Prime Minister of Canada... who joked he should be assinated.
Its been all over the news weeks ago.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

I dont know, so i am asking, did a government official or govt office come out and say they want this guy dead, or was it just a reporter saying this????

Partisan politicians in opposition making mileage out of the leaks, if the US tried to have him executed it would make for an interesting little spat between Gillard and Obama.

[74_XB_Ute]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Partisan politicians in opposition making mileage out of the leaks, if the US tried to have him executed it would make for an interesting little spat between Gillard and Obama.

Gillard would win.....any man would give in to the whiney drone monotonous voice of Gillard.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Partisan politicians in opposition making mileage out of the leaks, if the US tried to have him executed it would make for an interesting little spat between Gillard and Obama.

The US could assassinate him without anybody knowing. People dissappear all the time!

To redhotrx6 "(Assange) should be pursued with the same urgency we pursue al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders". Sarah Palin vice president elect.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

If nothing else he is a pretentious self obsessed waynker .

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshom...ofile-surfaces

all males are waynkers , i dont believe he is pretentious or self obsessed . infact he describes himself well , and i bet he does well with a profile like that . what sort of girl do you go for , one that likes your mum dad and car , outings and swimming, like most of us , thats ok too , after julian assange knocks them back they might look at your profile , after the biker with tatts and a harley knocks them back too .

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by irish2

The US could assassinate him without anybody knowing. People dissappear all the time!

To redhotrx6 "(Assange) should be pursued with the same urgency we pursue al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders". Sarah Palin vice president elect.

Fortunately though he has the protection of a 24 hour media scrum. And you'd be a fool to use such underhanded measures against somebody who is making mileage out of just that.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Fortunately though he has the protection of a 24 hour media scrum. And you'd be a fool to use such underhanded measures against somebody who is making mileage out of just that.

Why couldnt it simply be some nutter? Black op and point at some nutter who is yet to be identified. Never find said nutter. For a while there may be questions, but a year from now, anyone claiming a black op is a tinfoil hat wearing whacko.

Its all too easy, if they want. He wont have media attention forever.

Or something completely crazy, an actual nutter decides its his obligation to whack him.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Why couldnt it simply be some nutter? Black op and point at some nutter who is yet to be identified. Never find said nutter. For a while there may be questions, but a year from now, anyone claiming a black op is a tinfoil hat wearing whacko.

Its all too easy, if they want. He wont have media attention forever.

Or something completely crazy, an actual nutter decides its his obligation to whack him.

geez whats your problem with the bloke?
how'd you feel if someone said to send bops after you for slaggin out someones government?

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

all males are waynkers , i dont believe he is pretentious or self obsessed . infact he describes himself well , and i bet he does well with a profile like that . what sort of girl do you go for , one that likes your mum dad and car , outings and swimming, like most of us , thats ok too , after julian assange knocks them back they might look at your profile , after the biker with tatts and a harley knocks them back too .

Does well as in meets equally unbalanced nutters such as himself ? This may come as a surprise to you but some of us can actually meet women without going to the desperate measures of posting for one on an internet site . Do women only talk to you after they get your credit card number or something ? Dont have a " Profile " and dont need one and I would not take scraps from a LOSER like this or certainly a Harley riding waynker .

[WOTDAH]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Fortunately though he has the protection of a 24 hour media scrum. And you'd be a fool to use such underhanded measures against somebody who is making mileage out of just that.

Look what happen to Lee Harvey Oswald. If he is wanted dead it can happen anywhere.

I don't know what everyone has against Assange and Wiki leaks. We all have to stop listening to the mass media and being brainwashed by the higher powers and start thinking for ourselves. If the governments are lying to us and hiding the truth they should be brought down just like I would be if I lied to them. We are not sheep the government are suppose to represent us not dictate us.

Sorry I will go back to my hole now.

[FalconXV]

Could not have put it better myself WOTDAH.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Does well as in meets equally unbalanced nutters such as himself ? This may come as a surprise to you but some of us can actually meet women without going to the desperate measures of posting for one on an internet site . Do women only talk to you after they get your credit card number or something ? Dont have a " Profile " and dont need one and I would not take scraps from a LOSER like this or certainly a Harley riding waynker .

So this includes all females who use internet dating sites then?
ie they are desperate *******?
Ah yes thats right, character assascination is to be used at all times when you cant come up with a good arguement on the topic at hand

[nuthin' fancy]

The real problem here is that you can't trust what you read. Everyone has their own agenda in the media, I doubt Assange would stand up to close scrutiny (who would?) but given that the world media is dominated by just a few people and those people have a clear agenda they want to push, you can't trust what they say.

Assange has embarassed many powerful people and groups and he will ultimately pay a price for that whether just by having his reputation harmed or something far more sinister.

[XCwillo]

I havn't bothered reading through all the pages to see whats been said so I'll just say what i think

Wikileaks is a double sided sword. Yeah it can be good to force the governent to pick up its acts ect
BUT
We need secretes kept. i HATE people who bag on about letting the public know the truth, and "ohh bring down the man woo power to the people"
They're completely oblivious to the fact that governments keep secrets to get the jobs done (or dely them from getting done) for a reason, secrets let major powers bend the rules every now and then, mainly for the best interest of the allied nations, and sometimes, for the worst, but thats the planet we live in.

we need a evil that has the ability to challenger our belief in good, otherwise there would be no good to better ourselves on.

Secrets need to be kept so 'the man' can keep on doing his dirty laundry and eliminating the oposing force with dirty tricks and to keep spy's and soldiers alive.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by XCwillo

I havn't bothered reading through all the pages to see whats been said so I'll just say what i think

Wikileaks is a double sided sword. Yeah it can be good to force the governent to pick up its acts ect
BUT
We need secretes kept. i HATE people who bag on about letting the public know the truth, and "ohh bring down the man woo power to the people"
They're completely oblivious to the fact that governments keep secrets to get the jobs done (or dely them from getting done) for a reason, secrets let major powers bend the rules every now and then, mainly for the best interest of the allied nations, and sometimes, for the worst, but thats the planet we live in.

we need a evil that has the ability to challenger our belief in good, otherwise there would be no good to better ourselves on.

Secrets need to be kept so 'the man' can keep on doing his dirty laundry and eliminating the oposing force with dirty tricks and to keep spy's and soldiers alive.

The leaked documents are only listed as "In Confidence" they are not "Secret" or "Top Secret".

Would we be fighting said wars and killing our own men if we knew the real reasons we were fighting the war in the first place?

In 1999 a defence 'white paper' was released in America. This paper said that even with concerted effort the US forces would dwindle unless there was some type of threat that resulted in a comflict. The people who wrote the paper included Donand Rumsfeld and Bush's brother. Bush's brother is a director on the boards of some of Americas biggest weapons manufacturers. Sounds like a conflict of interest to me!

Is it a conincidence that Iraq was invaded 1 year after the food for oil program ran out, and Saddam said he was only going to sell oil to Russia and some European groups. If you don't know what Food for Oil is you better fire up google.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by xy500

geez whats your problem with the bloke?
how'd you feel if someone said to send bops after you for slaggin out someones government?

He is not saying he should be killed. He is simply stating how easy it would be to make it appear to be a nutter.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Why couldnt it simply be some nutter? Black op and point at some nutter who is yet to be identified. Never find said nutter. For a while there may be questions, but a year from now, anyone claiming a black op is a tinfoil hat wearing whacko.

Its all too easy, if they want. He wont have media attention forever.

Or something completely crazy, an actual nutter decides its his obligation to whack him.

I agree that its not impossible to have him silenced indefinitely, but you don't want to make a martyr out of him. The real fear is that a legitimate crazy/patriot does knock him off and then the effect snowballs against the US.

I find it strange how some media outlets refer to him as a "hacker". While technically correct, they never elaborate and explain that he didn't actually hack any US information, just disseminated it. Call me paranoid but it seems like they are being a little deceitful in explaining Assange's role in this release.

[Fev]

Well it is the way of the reporter, twisting words and meanings to their own agenda. With all the media focus on Assange it will be impossible for the US to remove him unless the UK gives him to Sweden which then extradites him to the US which is why Sweden is trying so hard to get their hands on him. If that happens well after a fair few years of solitary in somewhere like Guatanamo or some other sinister hell hole we don't know about before hes gone.


Back to the topic of Wikileaks itself though, has any of you actually looked at the website (or more likely, one of the mirrors)?? It is very interesting, especially seeing the cables we mere mortals usually wouldn't have access to. I was reading things on the Vaticans plans around the world and the middle east. There is political profiles on different countries and what they mean to other certain countries etc etc.
It makes great reading and if you actually took the time to read it, it might actually wake you up to the fact that we know NOTHING of what our governments are actually up to..


And once more - STOP THINKING that all these cables and leaks are compromising our soldiers, their soldiers etc etc.. 99% of these leaks are Political and definately NOT MILITARY. Wikileaks themselves - its volunteers are sifting through every single cable coming through, making sure that there isn't anything like that in there. The last thing they want is for people to die.
All they want -like we the people should want- is transparency in the government.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by xy500

geez whats your problem with the bloke?
how'd you feel if someone said to send bops after you for slaggin out someones government?

You havent been reading this thread have you?

Im not promoting his demise. Im just demonstrating how easy it would be, and for a government to get away with it, despite being in our faces about it.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Fev

Well it is the way of the reporter, twisting words and meanings to their own agenda. With all the media focus on Assange it will be impossible for the US to remove him unless the UK gives him to Sweden which then extradites him to the US which is why Sweden is trying so hard to get their hands on him. If that happens well after a fair few years of solitary in somewhere like Guatanamo or some other sinister hell hole we don't know about before hes gone.


Back to the topic of Wikileaks itself though, has any of you actually looked at the website (or more likely, one of the mirrors)?? It is very interesting, especially seeing the cables we mere mortals usually wouldn't have access to. I was reading things on the Vaticans plans around the world and the middle east. There is political profiles on different countries and what they mean to other certain countries etc etc.
It makes great reading and if you actually took the time to read it, it might actually wake you up to the fact that we know NOTHING of what our governments are actually up to..

The US would have trouble extraditing him from Sweden as they will not release someone for a political show trial and certainly not for capital punishment. God bless ultra liberal Scandinavians.

Assange is just the middle man, the soldier who illegally obtained the information is actually sitting in a military prison somewhere and Getmo would be a holiday retreat to what he is no doubt enjoying there.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

I agree that its not impossible to have him silenced indefinitely, but you don't want to make a martyr out of him. The real fear is that a legitimate crazy/patriot does knock him off and then the effect snowballs against the US.

I find it strange how some media outlets refer to him as a "hacker". While technically correct, they never elaborate and explain that he didn't actually hack any US information, just disseminated it. Call me paranoid but it seems like they are being a little deceitful in explaining Assange's role in this release.

Mainstream media, its what they do, pander.

If the US want him dead, he is dead, simple. It is too easy for them to make that happen, apathy will take care of the rest. But I think his greatest fear, should be some nutter.


I find the silence on point very telling though. The fact the US havent officially asked for his extradition, after all he is in captivity in the UK which is a close ally and will extradite to the US, is telling in itself. The US can request extradition from the UK fairly easily, they dont need to prove a case, they only to show reasonable suspicion. Either the US arent going to try to have him extradited officially (Im sure questions and contact is being made, feeling it out so to speak), or they know that legally they have no leg to stand on anyway. The UK courts will (generally) act based on law, not politics. The UK courts will consider much more than the publics myopic focus on what laws may be relevant. If the US is waiting on the Swedish system, then that does clearly indicate the legality of getting their hands on him. Why not do it via the UK, it should be simple enough?

But, the Swedish matter is not necessarily some US underhanded act either. There may be a simpler explanation, and that is that the Prosecutrix in Sweden has a hardon for the type of case he is alleged to have committed there, or simpler still, there is likely some career mileage for her in pursuing Assange due to his infamy.


But its just guessing. Time will tell.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

... the soldier who illegally obtained the information is actually sitting in a military prison somewhere and Getmo would be a holiday retreat to what he is no doubt enjoying there.

Nah, Im assuming he is a US citizen and as such entitled to the protections and rights the guests of Gitmo were claimed not to be entitled too.

Still, wouldnt be pleasant for him.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

Look what happen to Lee Harvey Oswald. If he is wanted dead it can happen anywhere.

I don't know what everyone has against Assange and Wiki leaks. We all have to stop listening to the mass media and being brainwashed by the higher powers and start thinking for ourselves. If the governments are lying to us and hiding the truth they should be brought down just like I would be if I lied to them. We are not sheep the government are suppose to represent us not dictate us.

Sorry I will go back to my hole now.

Agreed 100%

As someone said, WikiLeaks is just the bridge, there are people on each side that are doing the wrong.

Those creating situations where information can be leaked, or is indeed "sensitive" in the first place and those giving it to the website.

[Barnaby]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

The US would have trouble extraditing him from Sweden as they will not release someone for a political show trial and certainly not for capital punishment. God bless ultra liberal Scandinavians.

I wouldn't call the current ruling government in Sweden (Moderate Party) ultra liberal. I would argue that some of their recent policies have come from a distinct lean to the right. Assange is safer in England in my opinion.