High Performance Cars And P Platers

[XR-ENVI]

or the ones cluey enuff to knwo how to do it or where to do it

[donno]

I'm sure word would pass around very quickly.

[Trevor 57]

The Governments No. 1 Road Safety Policy, protect the idiots from themselves.

[XR-ENVI]

Donno ....of course it would, i am not a totally law abiding citizen, but i guess i just think that perhaps the sspeed limits are there for a reason, yeah i go over the speed limit on occasions but cars are getting more powerful everyday. i could overtake a truck easily without hitting 120 but i also have the luxury of a turbo. I am sure i have gone faster than 120 on occassions but i still believe in slowing cars down a bit, and not just for p platers. I see your point and understand it but i guess people dont always agree and they dont have to agree. ALthough dont they say that a woman is always right? _2:

[donno]

I'm arguing with a woman? Crap, i better go hide in the cupboard before i cop a spankin'

Sorry bout the edit, just trying to keep it structured.

Originally Posted by XR-ENVI

Donno ....of course it would, i am not a totally law abiding citizen, but i guess i just think that perhaps the sspeed limits are there for a reason, yeah i go over the speed limit on occasions but cars are getting more powerful everyday. i could overtake a truck easily without hitting 120 but i also have the luxury of a turbo. I am sure i have gone faster than 120 on occassions but i still believe in slowing cars down a bit, and not just for p platers. I see your point and understand it but i guess people dont always agree and they dont have to agree.

Ofcause there is a point to having speed limits, otherwise everyone would travel at whatever speed they like and it'd be chaos. I can overtake a truck doing 120 with ease, but if something goes wrong, you'll want everything its got. This arguament is turning very circular, and I have an assignment due tomorrow, so unless anyone comes up with any revelations, it'll be a night for me. Great debate guys, thanks for keeping it McCleans.

[XR-ENVI]

scaring them away already

[Yaw]

Ok well if the P plater thing is out of control lets do away with P platers and make licences minimum age of 25 ?
A lot of people have talked about compromise with driver training and allowing the higher powered cars. Maybe it already is too comprimised in the fact that a 17 year old can get a licence. There is another alternitive and I am sure that not too many would like that idea.
Its not something I would like to see or do, but hey ever consider things from that perspective, is it really such a bad thing to say no high powered cars to P platers???????

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

The Governments No. 1 Road Safety Policy, protect the idiots from themselves.

LOL
Proof of this, look on any Nobbys nuts bag.
There is a disclaimer "may contain traces of nuts"
come to think of it maybe ford fourms need that discliamer :

[SSbaby]

Maybe we should be protected from those idiots by not granting them a license. To drive is a privilege, not a right. It still won't stop stupid individuals from getting into cars unlicensed but at least the law should be slanted so as to protect the competent from the incompetent and those who engage in unlawful behaviour. We're only part way there with no obvious signs of bridging the gap

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Yaw

Ok well if the P plater thing is out of control lets do away with P platers and make licences minimum age of 25 ?
A lot of people have talked about compromise with driver training and allowing the higher powered cars. Maybe it already is too comprimised in the fact that a 17 year old can get a licence. There is another alternitive and I am sure that not too many would like that idea.
Its not something I would like to see or do, but hey ever consider things from that perspective, is it really such a bad thing to say no high powered cars to P platers???????

Not a bad idea, maybe people would take the privilige of driving a vehicle a little more seriously.

BTW, I love your signature.

[Sprint_ED]

another point i think is valid is how easy it is to get a liscence, ive seen some p platers who could drive if the world depened on it, but i see friends jst rock up do their l's hold the liscence for 6 months, maybe do 20-60 hrs practice and get their liscence straight away, and have no idea whats comming to them i believe a liscence should be a few days of videos, training, harder questions, and alot more strictness on driven test, this i beilieve would cut the number of people who cant drive and the ones that think they could drive,

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

Booking people going down hills is always a bit suss.

But it is not hard to understand the 11k's over going hill in speed limited truck, the vehicle is speed limited through the ECU. Trucks in Australia have been electronic since the mid to late 80's. The diff ratio in these things is around about 3.5 - 3.7, so that means that 100 km/h they are doing about 1600 revs in a 2000 max rev engine. There is this wonderful technology could "gravity", when you put something on wheels and let it roll down a hill, the speed increases. 3.6 diffs would allow a truck to go to about 130 at 2000 rpm, hence the speed limiting, but it only the ECU that is limited, not the diffs.

Hope that helps.

As for Sydney 5 nights a week, I find that hard to beleive, that is 19-20 hours driving everyday, let alone loading and unloading the thing, as well as waiting to be loaded and unloaded. Frog Shit, I say.

Im not stupid mate.



I was being a smart **** well knowing what she meant.

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by XR-ENVI

LIke i think it was chronicle said before, drag cars can be modified
actually all cars can be modified people will find there way around it, I really dont understand why there is an argument here guys, the speed limit is 100-110 in most areas/states so its against the law to go any faster on the road.

And this is exactly wht having the 120 limit in place is unworkable. If the ADR was put in place that all vehicles, australia wide, regardless of age had to be fitted with 120kmh limiters that would be a massive tab to pick up. I'm tipping it would be in the billions of dollars. So who's going to pay for the limiter on cars that can't be capped via the ECU? I seriously doubt the goverment will pay for them off their own bat so the public would have to.

So now everyone in Australia has paid hundreds of dollars per car to fit a limiter, at their expence, only to watch the law breakers either not fit one, or disable it.

The problem would still exist and nothing good will come from normal people not having that speed available to them should they need it.

As I posted before, more fatal accidents occur below 100kmh than above it.... how will the limiter help that loss of life?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by xdc351

And this is exactly wht having the 120 limit in place is unworkable. If the ADR was put in place that all vehicles, australia wide, regardless of age had to be fitted with 120kmh limiters that would be a massive tab to pick up. I'm tipping it would be in the billions of dollars. So who's going to pay for the limiter on cars that can't be capped via the ECU? I seriously doubt the goverment will pay for them off their own bat so the public would have to.

So now everyone in Australia has paid hundreds of dollars per car to fit a limiter, at their expence, only to watch the law breakers either not fit one, or disable it.

The problem would still exist and nothing good will come from normal people not having that speed available to them should they need it.

As I posted before, more fatal accidents occur below 100kmh than above it.... how will the limiter help that loss of life?

We have moved on from that particular subject - sorry.

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

We have moved on from that particular subject - sorry.

Oh, between 9:22 and 11:03 last night? Couldn't make a decent argument 'eh?

My mistake.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Yagz

Here's a fact for you.

While the media goes on about young drivers killing themselves, how's this for a statictic.

- During 2003, there were 1632 deaths from road accidents in Australia.
Out of these 1632 deaths, 330 were victorians. Of these 330, there were 72 deaths from the age group of 18 - 25 year olds. Thats 21.81% of the total road toll, down from 26.19% in 2002.

If this is such an alarming problem amongst P Platers, how come there were 96 deaths of people aged between 30 and 49 (the EXPERIENCED drivers).

Surely this whole p plater situation is being blown out of proportion?

I don't think so. I also don't think the people sitting at the front of a cafe with a WRX bearing down on them out of control driven by a P plater think so either.

You also seem to be comparing the fatality rates of drivers spanning 7 years to a span of drivers of 19 years. I would suggest there are significantly more 30-49 drivers on the road and I would expect that proportionally, there are more 18-25 deaths on the road per driver.

Maybe it just gets reported more in Sydney, and the behaviour I see on the roads with my own eyes late at night as I'm required to negotiate some P plater psycho haunts. After 10pm, if I'm next to a P plater in some riced up abomination at the lights, I give him a good 5 seconds to go before I'll go. I've seen many examples of them losing control, wrapping it around a pole, taking out the car beside and I've even seen one cross Parramatta Rd and go head on with a car travelling the other direction.

The major factor contributing to these incidents which I also suffered from when I was that age (but thankfully I was driving a 1.3L Escort at the time) is impulse control. It tends to get better with age. Some have excellent impulse control at any age, some have it when they're alone in the car and lose it as soon as someone joins them in the car, some simply don't even know what the word control means.

[DivHunter]

If you are going to be run down by a car I don't think you really car wether it is a P plater or not.

By the statistics banning large 4WDs would do more to lower the road toll than more stupid rules for P platers! They are the highest represented vehicle in fatal accidents. This however would be a rediculous rule taht noone could agree on, funny that.

Originally Posted by Chronicle

Everyone is bagging the Governemts for introducing laws - true?

What the Government(s) are doing is managing risks the best way they can, let us turn this thread into something positive, and tell us how YOU would stop people killing themselves and others in vehicles. Here is the power to you.

Let's hear about examples from around the world, from Countries with low death tolls.


BTW, in one country they have very low drink drive incidence, want to know why? It is because a drink driver is shot by a firing squad. Intersting, but true.

Rubbish, the government is just trying to make it look like they are doing something while they bring in the revenue, it takes alot of screwing up to get the road toll to rise when there is still alot of older cars being replaced with safer newer ones. Apart from 3rd world countries the western countries that are addicted to speed camera revenue are the ones with rising road deaths or no improvement.

Im 19 on P's obviously.I get around in an AU 11 XR8 Ute 200kw got pulled over last night for goin around a corner side ways. shit my self when i saw the pretty red and blue lights and he said he understood being an 8 and a ute its easy to do... gave me a warning. couldn't believe it. GOOD BLOKE

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

If I put my former OH&S Cap and conduct a risk assessment on the job of driving it would be quite intereseting to see the outcome, wouldn't it?

Not to mention an audit of the licensing system. For training people for this highly complex task which is conducted in variable environments with multiple uncontrolled events/objects what you have to go through to get a license is laughable.

[XR-ENVI]

WOW all this from a quote from my rego papers and a simple question as to why P platers in high performance cars is not policed. Still dont think i know why it isnt policed though

Originally Posted by XR-ENVI

WOW all this from a quote from my rego papers and a simple question as to why P platers in high performance cars is not policed. Still dont think i know why it isnt policed though

Its not policed because its hard to enforce and is apparently to complicated for vicroads to understand (have a look at the 2005 banned cars list) and its mostly pointless anyway.

[XR-ENVI]

Originally Posted by lizardmech

Its not policed because its hard to enforce and is apparently to complicated for vicroads to understand (have a look at the 2005 banned cars list) and its mostly pointless anyway.

so obviously they arent being registered in the P PLATERS name. Cos woth todays technology i would imagine a cross reference should be easily done, perhaps even automatically regarding liscense status and car (eg standard power) when its registered. Or havent they developed this yet?

Originally Posted by XR-ENVI

so obviously they arent being registered in the P PLATERS name. Cos woth todays technology i would imagine a cross reference should be easily done, perhaps even automatically regarding liscense status and car (eg standard power) when its registered. Or havent they developed this yet?

Have a look at the banned car list, vicroads can't even manage to make list of the banned cars without making huge mistakes calculating the power to weight ratio, listing models that dont exist or models that arnt even sold or imported here.

[Sprint_ED]

yeah i agree my sprint is right on the border, yet a ba sedan has more weight and less power and is banned

[HOON69]

the old debate is still strong i see

i for one dont think regulating this type of laws is really stopping the death toll do you?

i for one see driving a pre 70's 4cylinder driving at 60kmh into a tree far worst then say your 1990's v8 hitting a tree at say 80kmh it aint the car its the driver,i reckon it should only be made or enforced if a young driver has more then 2 offences of any type on their record before their green P's or opens i say..

[XR-ENVI]

This was more about what they are doing to maintain it, not whether it is right or wrong or whether the list made up by vic roads is realistic and correct.

Originally Posted by XR-ENVI

This was more about what they are doing to maintain it, not whether it is right or wrong or whether the list made up by vic roads is realistic and correct.

If they were maintaining it they would index it according to the year the car was made in. When the law was made it mostly banned high end HSVs, now it bans 4 cylinder non turbos and family 6 cylinder sedans. Pretty soon p platers wont be allowed base model hyundais.

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by lizardmech

If they were maintaining it they would index it according to the year the car was made in. When the law was made it mostly banned high end HSVs, now it bans 4 cylinder non turbos and family 6 cylinder sedans. Pretty soon p platers wont be allowed base model hyundais.

Liz,
You really have a thing about this list. And from your posts it would seem you think its all a big consiprisy.
The list may have incorrect calculations, I have not seen it nor does it matter that I have not. Goverenment dept or not, if the calculations are in fact incorrect as you state should it affect you or ANYONE for that matter, take the matter to court. The calculations and specs have to be able to stand up there too, if they don't, the plantiff (you) wins.
Time to get down off the soap box and maybe focus your attentions if this list is such a problem to you, point out the flaws in a well versed letter to your local state member. Hell give him a copy of this entire thread too.
The List I would guess is nothing more than a Guide.

Originally Posted by Yaw

Liz,
You really have a thing about this list. And from your posts it would seem you think its all a big consiprisy.
The list may have incorrect calculations, I have not seen it nor does it matter that I have not. Goverenment dept or not, if the calculations are in fact incorrect as you state should it affect you or ANYONE for that matter, take the matter to court. The calculations and specs have to be able to stand up there too, if they don't, the plantiff (you) wins.
Time to get down off the soap box and maybe focus your attentions if this list is such a problem to you, point out the flaws in a well versed letter to your local state member. Hell give him a copy of this entire thread too.
The List I would guess is nothing more than a Guide.

I dont want to have to take a day off work and pay for a lawyer just because some idiots can't do their job properly, it ****es me off that these same idiots make decisions that cost lives.