Carbon Tax.Its a BIG Con!!!

[Polyal]

The point is by introducing a carbon tax it does not achieve any lowering in emissions...the cost is just passed on to the unlucky person at the end of the chain.

Will I suddenly turn off my PS3, projector, PC, laptop, Ipad etc etc because of a tax? No...and I reckon that would be the same for the majority out there.

So in the end my emissions stay the same but I am paying a tax I wasnt before, and for what?

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

We will remain on this until we find/harness a sustainable and practical replacement for OIL.

Which wont happen cos its COSTS MONEY unlike the tax which RAISES MONEY.

Hell we cant eat money nor run our cars on it!

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

This is a serious question.. No mucking about.. Are you a Government plant? I would be up Mizz Gillard for a payrise if so? Come clean, do you sometimes answer to Penny?

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Do you mean what price will oil companies and power utitlites charge? about $26 tonne, check your latest power bill and it will tell you how many kgs of co2 you have produced, or alternatively each kWh produces about 1kg of co2 if the elec comes from coal.

Bloody Hell, you’ll be broke then. Let’s face it, you’ve produced more than that in this thread alone.

What do you do for a job, Sudszy? After reading through some of the stuff you pollute AFF with, I really hope that you’re not a teacher pushing this c*ck an bull on impressionable young minds?

I don’t want a carbon dioxide tax, and you’re all for it, so when it comes in, you can pay my share. Easy.

[WMD351]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Hopefully you'll trawl the rest of today's posts on this forum

Hmmm....

[mcnews]

Wow the gene pool is shallow at times. Alan Jones spruiking the truth, seriously, that's just classic comedy right there :-)

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

Careful making statements like this ..... it underminds some intelligent things you may have said above. Silly comparisons. Of course everyone is worried about the cost ..... everything has a price and if the outcome does not justify the cost then there is a line where it is not required! At present, and even you have stated .... the outcome isnt clear and as far as I can see is pie in the sky stuff. To compare to cancer is very far off.

Originally Posted by sudszy

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring..

It is such a small step ....minute in fact on a world scale. It is not Australia's role to lead the world and I am not in a position to do it. Do not over estimate the power of Aus ...... it is insignificant.

Originally Posted by sudszy

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

Innovators at what cost?? YES it comes down to cost and always will as this is a new TAX. It is about the money .... remember it is a tax. Sales of coal will always be there. Taxed here but sent overseas by the boat full. For them to be serious ....... they should stop the export of coal tomorrow. It doesn't matter about the loss of income because Carbon should be stopped ..... "At any cost .... " This would make a dent in world carbon emissions?

Profit from the innovation?

Wind farms in my back yard? No!

Anyone got any spare caves I can move into? Cant light a fire though to keep warm as I cant afford the tax on the amount of carbon I release.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

well to be fair when you say the consequences are lost on people on here
the government's climate commission has stated seas will rise buy 1m in 100 years . It would be cheaper to build a 1.5 metre sea wall in populated area's
then to do what they propose . As you would know many peer reviewed scientist state we may be better of learning to deal with the problems then to address them because some think we cant reverse what is happening in time .

[mcnews]

Okay so the lah lah fingers in ears disciples actually do support action on climate change as long as it's not a tax :-)
(big business might not pay mouthpieces like that old fairy Jones millions to campaign against that and suck in the gullible too so it might get up....)

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Innovators at what cost?? YES it comes down to cost and always will as this is a new TAX. It is about the money .... remember it is a tax. Sales of coal will always be there. Taxed here but sent overseas by the boat full. For them to be serious ....... they should stop the export of coal tomorrow. It doesn't matter because Carbon should be stopped ..... "At any cost .... "

Profit from the innovation?

Wind farms in my back yard? No!

Exactly, and what I have said to people on the subject before. If it's not about the money, stop sending millions of tons of Coal to China! If you are a believer in Man made climate change or not, this is a Money raising TAX by a big $$ wasting Government that should have announced it before the last election.. Everyone berated Howard for the GST, but at least he had the Balls to take it too an Election.. Once again I ask (considering this is a thread on a Carbon tax) What is it going to achieve other than propping up an EXTREMELY INCOMPETENT Government's Coffers?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Okay so the lah lah fingers in ears disciples actually do support action on climate change as long as it's not a tax :-)
(big business might not pay mouthpieces like that old fairy Jones millions to campaign against that and suck in the gullible too so it might get up....)

And the lah lah fingers in ears disciples from the Church of Climatology do support action on carbon change at any cost with no specific benefit?

Actually BHP and the others do support a tax on carbon ..... why????? Because they can push prices up which means more profit with a big tick from the g'ment. Great stuff ain't it

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Pretty sure you said you own a Ford Territory. Not the most fuel effective car now is it.

Good on ya Ben, glad your brought something to the discussion here.
Why dont you make one of those equally deflective comments and complain that Im producing co2 by being at my keyboard.

Mate, I own 6 cars, territory is one of them which I dont drive.


Probably you've mistaken me for someone that says we must all go back to the caves to save the planet, nope, Im looking for innovation so we can maintain a high level of living without burning carbon.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by gs1973

This is a serious question.. No mucking about.. Are you a Government plant? I would be up Mizz Gillard for a payrise if so? Come clean, do you sometimes answer to Penny?

Answer please? And on record I do not Condone the Cat noises you were subject too last week

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by gs1973

. If it's not about the money, stop sending millions of tons of Coal to China!

No argument from me the best signal they could send the Chinese is to charge them the carbon tax as well or insist they properly collect the co2 and dispose of it or no coal, but I bet if the govco even hinted at it, you'd be hollering louder than you are right now.

[Auslandau]

While things do get a little emotional ....... can we please stick with the topic as close as possible with out any name calling. Calling others hypocrites and morons dont help the conversation .....

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by sudszy

No argument from me the best signal they could send the Chinese is to charge them the carbon tax as well or insist they properly collect the co2 and dispose of it or no coal, but I bet if the govco even hinted at it, you'd be hollering louder than you are right now.

Maybe so, but can you see what a total joke a Carbon Tax on us will be if they don't?

[snappy]

. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

Australia is not the world we have a smaller population then some cities .
taxing our productivity and not taxing imports is only punishing us not the rest of the world , So this tax is not sending any message to the world except send your stuff here well buy it because ours is to expensive .

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves

No way known australia will never ever be able to compete with china hell even germany is struggling we have no hope that a fact any expert will tell you that . Best we can hope for is they will buy and mass produce our inventions

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

While things do get a little emotional ....... can we please stick with the topic as close as possible with out any name calling. Calling others hypocrites and morons dont help the conversation .....

Sorry, but people taking Alan Jones seriously.... Come on..... That can't be allowed through to the keeper :-) That should be permanent ban material, lol

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

To compare to cancer is very far off.

Really, we are talking survival here....very related, its more than just building a sea wall, its about how agriculture will survive, rain fall, which pests prosper, changing crops etc.......its about survival.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Im looking for innovation so we can maintain a high level of living without burning carbon.

Carbon burning? Now you’re up with the stars, mate.

Look, just for you, I’m doing my bit to combat rising sea levels. I’m refusing to buy a boat. That’ll fix everything.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Really, we are talking survival here....very related, its more than just building a sea wall, its about how agriculture will survive, rain fall, which pests prosper, changing crops etc.......its about survival.

Exactly now how does taxing our best asset help us survive , Just to be clear cheap and abundent power is our best asset .

On one hand we have this government selling coal and planning on increasing the sale of it , But with the other hand they are saying coal is evil dont use
it .

We would be better of putting a tax in to spend on infrastructure .An aim to be the farming nation or food bowl of the worls and reduse our emmisions that way

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by snappy

.An aim to be the farming nation or food bowl of the worls and reduse our emmisions that way

Have you been missing the last 10 years, Australia's agriculture has changed because of the climate, what do you think will happen with further temp increases of 1-2C, no food = no life, no matter how much energy you have.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Really, we are talking survival here....very related, its more than just building a sea wall, its about how agriculture will survive, rain fall, which pests prosper, changing crops etc.......its about survival.

No you are so very wrong on this and sorry but you cannot convince me otherwise

Cancer: Out of 1328 people, 1132 people have survived 100% after taking this pill. (Insert what ever figure you want and treatment but in simplistic terms there is an absolute outcome compared to doing nothing)

Climate Tax: Everyone pays a magical number and the carbon might go down, stay where it is, keep rising, kill us all, have no effect, change sea levels, sky falls in .... no one knows what will happen. All I know is some will be richer, most will be poorer for no end result.

This is Australia we are talking about! It would have the same effect as if they banned farts .... which would be a hell of a lot cheaper!

Can just see India, China and the rest saying ... Australia is doing it, we better damn well do it too or they wont like us anymore ........
-(Thats China rolling on the floor)

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Good on ya Ben, glad your brought something to the discussion here.
Why dont you make one of those equally deflective comments and complain that Im producing co2 by being at my keyboard.

Mate, I own 6 cars, territory is one of them which I dont drive.


Probably you've mistaken me for someone that says we must all go back to the caves to save the planet, nope, Im looking for innovation so we can maintain a high level of living without burning carbon.

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but I got the impression that you were a tree hugging greeny who loves the idea of a carbon tax.
If that is not you, then I apologize.

I agree with finding a renewable "clean" energy source. But a carbon tax will not help find this energy source. It will not help cut carbon. It is just a way for governments to make money off this topic.

I still don't believe that the CO2 we put out is making a difference to the environment. Especially not Australia. We put out such a small amount compared to the rest of the world, taxing us will not benefit the environment a single bit. It will just benefit the government pockets.

Fossil fuels will not last forever, and when there is a reliable, renewable source that is as good as fossil fuels, then I will use it.
But until then I will be driving V8's and 4WDs.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Have you been missing the last 10 years, Australia's agriculture has changed because of the climate, what do you think will happen with further temp increases of 1-2C, no food = no life, no matter how much energy you have.

That has always been the way mate i was born on a farm
The climate has changed and always will you grow things that thrive to the climate
every state in this country has a different climate at different seasons .
The land has been farmed incorrectly any farmer will tell you that but they will also tell you they didn't know better at the time . An the money is not there at present to do what needs to be done .
More c02 = quicker growth plants love it fertiliser is full of it .
the water has to be drip fed in to the land replenishing the soil not watered from above .
An if you really want to innovative we could also lead the world in bio fuels


what you need to remember is people can survive till c02 hits 5000ppm
any anything over 1000ppm plant growth starts to rapidly accelerate
An 1-2 degree is going to happen anyway carbon tax or not

[Full Noise]

Sudszy, if you are so Hell bent on saving the planet with a carbon dioxide tax and actively want everyone to reduce their carbon dioxide footprint, why don’t you lead by example and turn off your computer?

[Ben73]

If you turn off your TV for 5 minutes and look up Climate Change on other sources, you will see there is just as much information disproving climate change as there is supporting it.


1. Climate change real = Environmental scientists stay in their job. Pollies win votes. Government makes millions from taxes. Greenies happy

2 Climate change not real = Environmental scientists lose job, Pollies can't use it to win votes, Government makes NO money off taxes. Greenies unhappy.

You can see why the government and media try so hard to convince us all Man made Climate change is real.


Climate change is real.... Its called the earths natural cycle. One day the earth will begin to cool again.
I guess they covered that when they changed the propaganda from Global Warming to Climate Change.

[Dr Jekkyl]

The level of anti-intellectual sentiment on display in this thread is frightening.

Really though, is this unexpeced?

Perhaps these people are so wise as to know that imposition of any carbon abatement program is a futile endeavour because living in a quarry is ***** either way?

[FTE]

If (and thats a BIG if) climate change was infact sped up by us the government would simply stop or phase out major contributing factors that cause it sooner rather than later. There was no debate or tax imposed when there was a "hole in the ozone layer". They simply banned the use of CFC's by a certain date that caused it (1993 or 94 from memory).

Now today the government say burning coal (which is carbon) is a problem and needs to be taxed to reduce carbon footprint, but at the same time they have approved several new coal deposits to be mined in Qld for exporting around the world.
This tells me they aren't serious about the climate change issue as approving more mines for coal export pretty much changes nothing in the total carbon emissions except increase it.

I think the smarter way would be NOT to approve anymore coal mines australia wide until one actually closes. Plus all new homes to have solar power for more than just water heating brought in by a date like 2012, and stop focusing on making ****ant small fuel efficient cars more fuel efficient and energy efficient. Its a lot of money going no where for no reason except to make feeble minded people think they are doing good just by driving a car. If your that worried by the carbon pollution stop driving and ride

[Thornie]

Originally Posted by Ben73

If you turn off your TV for 5 minutes and look up Climate Change on other sources, you will see there is just as much information disproving climate change as there is supporting it.


1. Climate change real = Environmental scientists stay in their job. Pollies win votes. Government makes millions from taxes. Greenies happy

2 Climate change not real = Environmental scientists lose job, Pollies can't use it to win votes, Government makes NO money off taxes. Greenies unhappy.

You can see why the government and media try so hard to convince us all Man made Climate change is real.


Climate change is real.... Its called the earths natural cycle. One day the earth will begin to cool again.
I guess they covered that when they changed the propaganda from Global Warming to Climate Change.

No, no, no this can't be true at all because the internet says so.