And it's gone.... - Page 6

Falc'man · 13-07-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

The SV8 was introduced to cater to V8 customers on a budget. Like I've said, its an important albeit not very large market segment.
Ford need a cheap NA XR8 or they'll pay the price - not now, but in 10 years time.

The SS/V sell more than the XR6T and XR8 combined, so there are gains for Ford to be had. I do agree with your last statement; now, just when Ford have one of the most potent V8s ever - I'm talking about the n.a. - they need to butt heads with Holden and knock that cocky SS off it's perch.

Fireblade · 13-07-2010, 09:34 PM

You have to remember that the NA coyote is running American emissions and Fuel, not sure of the difference between theirs and ours but I don't think it would be as potent here.

Falc'man · 13-07-2010, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

You have to remember that the NA coyote is running American emissions and Fuel, not sure of the difference between theirs and ours but I don't think it would be as potent here.

Their emission laws are stricter.

Consider that this n.a. V8 has repeatedly measured almost (if not) the same power as the Camaro SS's 426hp LS3 on the dynos. That would be the 'same' motor HSV has in the R8. How's that for being 1.2 litres down in capacity?

Take away the need for hyd. power steering (assuming FG2 won't get EPAS) and it will drop a little, but again, the FG has room to fit bigger headers.

Road_Warrior · 13-07-2010, 10:45 PM

So could it be that the XR8 as a model will remain but be 'decontented' with the base n/a Coyote, and the GS become a production model as a 'premium' XR8 with the blown version? A-la Holden's model structure with the SS and SS-V?

Fireblade · 13-07-2010, 10:48 PM

Fair enough Falc'man, but I don't think a 300kw base NA will cut the mustard for Ford Australia as there won't be any room left for future upgrades of the NA and keeping it in the emissions required. SC will do this and can come out with relatively little boost to make the so called required amount to appeal to the actual buyers of the XR8.

HSV don't do the SSV Road warrior, there will be and there is only room for one XR8. My tip it will be a FPV product based on the GS so with the added bonuses of an FPV with brembo brakes etc etc

Falc'man · 13-07-2010, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

So could it be that the XR8 as a model will remain but be 'decontented' with the base n/a Coyote, and the GS become a production model as a 'premium' XR8 with the blown version? A-la Holden's model structure with the SS and SS-V?

Yes. Same as now. Edit, same as a couple of months ago.

04redxr8 · 13-07-2010, 10:53 PM

I was asking my accountant a while ago about a new V8 ute. I can't recall the exact figure but it was $50-something 'k where the benefit of buying a new work would be lost.

I can't recall the specifics, maybe someone else will guess what she was talking about. Anywho, if the new XR8 ute is above that figure, they more lose even sales. If the price goes to high, and the isn't a suitable tax benefit, alot of tradies looking for a V8 ute may just buy a Commodore.

Falc'man · 13-07-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Fair enough Falc'man, but I don't think a 300kw base NA will cut the mustard for Ford Australia as there won't be any room left for future upgrades of the NA and keeping it in the emissions required. SC will do this and can come out with relatively little boost to make the so called required amount to appeal to the actual buyers of the XR8.

HSV don't do the SSV Road warrior, there will be and there is only room for one XR8. My tip it will be a FPV product based on the GS so with the added bonuses of an FPV with brembo brakes etc etc

A couple of questions.
Are you saying ~300kW for less than $50k isn't a great deal, or are you saying the 300kW is too high, because "there's no room for upgrades"?

Fireblade · 13-07-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

A couple of questions.
Are you saying ~300kW for less than $50k isn't a great deal, or are you saying the 300kW is too high, because "there's no room for upgrades"?

Bit of both, from what I have read the NA coyote is already at the pointy end of peak power within the emissions requirements so there isn't any room to go above and keep in those emissions requirements without Supercharging and being able to do it with gradual increases of boost for each new model. 300kw for less than 50k is a good deal but I think to pinch sales from Holden and from its own XR6T customers it would need to be a bit higher than this to do this, but on the otherhand if the all round package as an NA product does everything better than both of its current opposition then it would be viable. I am not 100% convinced that just a new engine at 300kw which remember is now only 10kw above the out going model will suffice to bring better sales.

Falc'man · 13-07-2010, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Bit of both, from what I have read the NA coyote is already at the pointy end of peak power within the emissions requirements so there isn't any room to go above and keep in those emissions requirements without Supercharging and being able to do it with gradual increases of boost for each new model. 300kw for less than 50k is a good deal but I think to pinch sales from Holden and from its own XR6T customers it would need to be a bit higher than this to do this, but on the otherhand if the all round package as an NA product does everything better than both of its current opposition then it would be viable. I am not 100% convinced that just a new engine at 300kw which remember is now only 10kw above the out going model will suffice to bring better sales.

What if you were told that Ford US had a 450hp version of this n.a. 5 litre (Roadrunner, baby) about to his the streets early next year? (Remember, their emission laws are tougher than ours.)

(How's that for timing... JPFS1, I hope your wish comes true.

)

The message I got from one of the guys working on it was that it's torque curve was nice and fat. And flat.

Fireblade · 13-07-2010, 11:29 PM

Then thats a different ball game but will Ford/FPV hold out close to a year on producing another XR8 or will they go with what is already available and in development here already. Problem we have is no real news from Ford, to be honest I think this will hurt their sales of this product in particular as people holding out could quite likely jump across and buy a new Holden SS.

Falc'man · 13-07-2010, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Then thats a different ball game but will Ford/FPV hold out close to a year on producing another XR8 or will they go with what is already available and in development here already. Problem we have is no real news from Ford, to be honest I think this will hurt their sales of this product in particular as people holding out could quite likely jump across and buy a new Holden SS.

It's not like XR8 sales were through the roof... . And I still maintain that the normal 5 litre will be sufficient, especially when/if it's marketed correctly, but from what I can tell, you want a blown XR8 for around $50k? Any way you cut it, having 300kW for around $50k is a bargain.

Anyhow, Ian's post below paints a clearer picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

I think it’s important to remember that there is one goal here and that is to sell cars. Ford/FPV is the one entity with a common mission in that respect. Positioning, politics, return on investment will dictate the final form of the products we will be driving.
We have surmised that for some time there is only the S/C engine available for this year and we suspect there needs to be a certain volume to make the business case viable.
If Ford has decided that the XR8 should remain N/A for positioning, cost reasons and for all we know, engine availability reasons, I think that’s a decision that should be applauded. The negative might be that it disappears for a period of time. The positive will be that it will retain its relative affordability with what is a world class engine.

Fireblade · 14-07-2010, 12:06 AM

No Falc'man you got me all wrong, I don't want a blown XR8 for 50k, I'm not going to buy an XR8 fullstop, but in saying that I don't want the XR8 nameplate to die either, to me it would be fitting for the XR8 to be under the FPV banner. If I was to buy an XR8 in the future I would pay the premium price for the oppurtunity to buy a blown one, IMO you get what you pay for. I like what FPV bring to the table with their cars and if I stick to buying Fords it will be from the FPV stable again.

jpd80 · 14-07-2010, 12:44 AM

Just so that we're on the same page, to April Ford and FPV have sold the following vehicles:
XR8 Sedan 101
XR6T 503
G6ET 396
GT 74
GTP 11
GS 65
F6 84

XR8 Ute 168
XR6T Ute 283
S/Pursuit 67
Pursuit 11
F6 Ute 43
GS Ute 9

SteveJH · 14-07-2010, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just so that we're on the same page, to April Ford and FPV have sold the following vehicles:
XR8 Sedan 101
XR6T 503
G6ET 396
GT 74
GTP 11
GS 65
F6 84

XR8 Ute 168
XR6T Ute 283
S/Pursuit 67
Pursuit 11
F6 Ute 43
GS Ute 9

1309 Cars with a Turbo 6, 506 with a N/A 8

2.59/1

jpd80 · 14-07-2010, 01:38 AM

Russell has posted June sales of Ford FPV performance vehicles,
Year to date for the following vehicles:

XR8 Sedan 150
XR6T 880
G6ET 544
GT 107
GTP 17
GS 83
F6 141
Territory Ghia Turbo 199 (By deduction of Ford's numbers for I-6 Turbo)

XR8 Ute 221
XR6T Ute 399
S/Pursuit 110
Pursuit 13
F6 Ute 65
GS Ute 17

Engine Mix for Ford:
I-6T 1782
V8 371

Engine Mix for FPV:
I-6T 235
V8 355

Engine Mix for Ford/FPV:
I-6T 2017
V8 726

jpd80 · 14-07-2010, 01:51 AM

Does anyone have sales breakdown of XR6 and G series vehicles?

Quicksand · 14-07-2010, 11:19 AM

I'm continually impressed with the success of the G6ET. One hot, smoking car in all aspects.

GT · 14-07-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Does anyone have sales breakdown of XR6 and G series vehicles?

Send Russellw a PM and he will get those for you.

GT

Smoke Pursuit · 14-07-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

I was asking my accountant a while ago about a new V8 ute. I can't recall the exact figure but it was $50-something 'k where the benefit of buying a new work would be lost.

I can't recall the specifics, maybe someone else will guess what she was talking about. Anywho, if the new XR8 ute is above that figure, they more lose even sales. If the price goes to high, and the isn't a suitable tax benefit, alot of tradies looking for a V8 ute may just buy a Commodore.

Time to get a new accountant..

Luxury car tax LCT is $57,466 but does not apply to commercial vehicles. The XR8 ute is classed a commercial vehicle just like Maloo, Super Pursuit etc and has no luxury car tax applicable.

R-Design · 14-07-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Engine Mix for FPV:
I-6T 235
V8 355

590 FPV's sold YTD (Including 100 tarted up XR8s); I wonder how much they're down year on year by percentage? I'm guessing about 40-45% on a year which featured the GFC. The worlds longest runout will do that to you (Meanwhile HSV is up 67%).

I wonder what Rod Barrett's job security is like. Maybe Coyote will heal all wounds.

Smoke Pursuit · 14-07-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

590 FPV's sold YTD (Including 100 tarted up XR8s); I wonder how much they're down year on year by percentage? I'm guessing about 40-45% on a year which featured the GFC. The worlds longest runout will do that to you (Meanwhile HSV is up 67%).

I wonder what Rod Barrett's job security is like. Maybe Coyote will heal all wounds.

Thats if he ever pulls his finger out and realease some information.. By the time they actually get a decent amount of cars on the ground, (Feb 2011) they will have alot of catching up to do financially if they want to compete with HSV.

Sorry but they must be hurting!! What are all the floor guys doing atm, or the guys that build the motors??

Jason[98.EL] · 14-07-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Thats if he ever pulls his finger out and realease some information.. By the time they actually get a decent amount of cars on the ground, (Feb 2011) they will have alot of catching up to do financially if they want to compete with HSV.

Sorry but they must be hurting!! What are all the floor guys doing atm, or the guys that build the motors??

I would say standing around with a finger up a spot I cant say here or
they have the motors and are doing their magic :hrod on them before they release them

Just a thought

Jason

Smoke Pursuit · 14-07-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

I would say standing around with a finger up a spot I cant say here or
they have the motors and are doing their magic :hrod on them before they release them

Just a thought

Jason

THey only have the capacity to build so many motors and store them tho, even if they are in that phase.

F6 isnt getting built in July, they come back on August build apparently, so there will be a few kits / wheels to fit in August and Sept, but it will be the quietest its been in the last 8 years for FPV.

R-Design · 14-07-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Sorry but they must be hurting!! What are all the floor guys doing atm, or the guys that build the motors??

FPV must be bleeding money, corporate mismanagement at its finest.

Must stay calm!!!!

jixel 78 · 14-07-2010, 10:51 PM

Why oh why is everyone trying to hold onto XR8? Clear the decks, build Falcons for Oz as long as we can. That means the good ol` 6 banger. When 2015 comes around and Falcon is morphed with Taurus, XR8 will be but a distant memory,as will the I6. Ford is on the right track, people living in the past need to buy pony cars to hang the tail out,have fun etc.Thats sports car stuff,(read rear drive coupes)not four door V8 shenanigans in a SUV/soccer mom/school zone environment. Falcon needs to be for mum, dad and the sprogs if its going to survive. Not smoke shows and dyno comps. XR8 is all about a long gone market, directed at smokin the bags with lil` Johnny wanting to be like good old Dad.

darkside · 14-07-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jixel 78

Why oh why is everyone trying to hold onto XR8? Clear the decks, build Falcons for Oz as long as we can. That means the good ol` 6 banger. When 2015 comes around and Falcon is morphed with Taurus, XR8 will be but a distant memory,as will the I6. Ford is on the right track, people living in the past need to buy pony cars to hang the tail out,have fun etc.Thats sports car stuff,(read rear drive coupes)not four door V8 shenanigans in a SUV/soccer mom/school zone environment. Falcon needs to be for mum, dad and the sprogs if its going to survive. Not smoke shows and dyno comps. XR8 is all about a long gone market, directed at smokin the bags with lil` Johnny wanting to be like good old Dad.

are you serious !!!!!!!!!have you been living under a rock this is the land of OZ the only reason we would be happy that the tyres wern't smokin is if the front wheels were in the air :hrod ....doc

jpd80 · 15-07-2010, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkside

are you serious !!!!!!!!!have you been living under a rock this is the land of OZ the only reason we would be happy that the tyres wern't smokin is if the front wheels were in the air :hrod ....doc

Last year, there were less than 750 XR8s sedans sold and in the first six months this year only about 150.
The XR8 market is slipping away from Ford, as you make the car dearer (+$50K) buyers drop off dramatically. Ford will probably consolidate all V8s under FPV (makes sense) and anyone wanting one will pay full price.

TS50 · 15-07-2010, 12:43 PM

I believe that people that read these forums are passionate and want the V8's and pperformance cars
but in the reality of the market, most people (mums and dads) buying cars are more worried about safety and luxury items
It turns out there is only a small percentage of peole that are enthusists
Look around at even people you know, must of them couldnt give a flying (something) if it had a V8 or not, most would rather something comfortable and economical
Most people here are looking at this from only their own personal view, and not the view that cmpanies like Ford need to, i.e. the general buying public

Brazen · 15-07-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

The SS/V sell more than the XR6T and XR8 combined, so there are gains for Ford to be had. I do agree with your last statement; now, just when Ford have one of the most potent V8s ever - I'm talking about the n.a. - they need to butt heads with Holden and knock that cocky SS off it's perch.

Also last year just under 35% of SS and SSVs were wagons, so I dont think Ford can ever catch up fully but there is big room for improvement.

What makes Holden's results more remarkable is the very popular V8 Calais V which must compete for the same Holden V8 buyer, you also have V8 Satesman and Caprice which are less of a threat to the SS twins. Having so much internal competition makes the overall sales of SS and SSV even more impressive from a V8-selling perspective and shows to me that there is still a market there.