Delayed: Ford's 4-cylinder Falcon - Page 6

Buntz · 20-03-2011, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

PS: Good try for a newbee .... But you need to learn about the motor Vehicle manufacturing industry.

I take it your the expert then?

jpd80 · 20-03-2011, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

That's if the government doesn't threaten them with costly import tariffs for cutting Aussie jobs. They have a commitment to Australia as well you know.

Tarriffs are not coming back, Australia has a huge export surplus to Korea and Japan

Quote:

As for Holden selling 12000 V8's lest year. That shows the culture right there. V8's are important here despite how many Ford manage to move. That is FoA's failing.

No, that shows the difference between V8 Ford buyers and V8 Holden buyers, they are not the same demographic.
Holden has way bigger customer base than Ford, those former Ford buyers have moved onto other products now
and won't be coming back

jpd80 · 20-03-2011, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I take it your the expert then?

Yes he is.....

Buntz · 20-03-2011, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

No, that shows the difference between V8 Ford buyers and V8 Holden buyers, they are not the same demographic.
Holden has way bigger customer base than Ford, those former Ford buyers have moved onto other products now and won't be coming back

That would be quite a large census to claim that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes he is.....

Enlightening.

**Fordman1** · 20-03-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

That's if the government doesn't threaten them with costly import tariffs for cutting Aussie jobs. They have a commitment to Australia as well you know.

As for Holden selling 12000 V8's lest year. That shows the culture right there. V8's are important here despite how many Ford manage to move. That is FoA's failing.

Ummm no.

1. Lift Tarrifs for Ford and no one else ? Lol

2. 12,000 vs 1,000,000 = 1.2 %

not much culture there .....

jpd80 · 20-03-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

That would be quite a large census to claim that.

Which claim:
1) That Holden are more popular and have more buyers than Ford?
2) That Holden V8 buyers and Ford V8 buyers are two different groups?
3) That previous Ford V8 buyers have now moved onto other products?

I don't think you would get too much argument out of people on this site.

Lack of sales is the best and unfortunately the only census you are going to get.

**Fordman1** · 20-03-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

That would be quite a large census to claim that.

A bit like the one on "Culture" ?

Buntz · 20-03-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

2. 12,000 vs 1,000,000 = 1.2 %

not much culture there .....

So FPV should just shut up shop? What they're doing is absolutely pointless. As is this "power war" with HSV?

WE still have the culture. It's just the number of imports has risen. But any Vehicle that Ford decided to replace Falcon has to take it into consideration.

And they can't really make a decision this year on replacing a car with one in 2015 that they don't exactly know what it will be yet.

**Fordman1** · 20-03-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

And they can't really make a decision this year on replacing a car with one in 2015 that they don't exactly know what it will be yet.

It's called a business plan ....

Buntz · 20-03-2011, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

It's called a business plan ....

Mistake more like. But I'm not worried. There are two similar cars in the Ford empire. One of which already has had a decision made. And that is global input on the 2014 Mustang, just before the next Falcon gets introduced. I'm betting that's where a lot of the development work will be done for the next Falcon. And soon Ford will will go with a plan based off the already submitted designs... which will before an announcement is made about Falcon.

So Mustang will be doing the dev for power/drive trains, suspension. Because I6 will likely be ousted for EB V6. FoA isn't sitting on it's laurels in the down time. They're doing the EB I4 for both cars. Which will likely end up in most mustang convertibles for the girls and hairdressers alike.

This is my reasoning.

Paxton · 20-03-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Mistake more like. But I'm not worried. There are two similar cars in the Ford empire. One of which already has had a decision made. And that is global input on the 2014 Mustang, just before the next Falcon gets introduced. I'm betting that's where a lot of the development work will be done for the next Falcon. And soon Ford will will go with a plan based off the already submitted designs... which will before an announcement is made about Falcon.

So Mustang will be doing the dev for power/drive trains, suspension. Because I6 will likely be ousted for EB V6. FoA isn't sitting on it's laurels in the down time. They're doing the EB I4 for both cars. Which will likely end up in most mustang convertibles for the girls and hairdressers alike.

This is my reasoning.

Someone's not worried. Interesting.

I am. Ford Australia has started auditioning fat ladies. Territory has to be a success. I can't stress that enough. If Territory does not fire, we'll be driving Tauriis and Explorers.

Buntz · 20-03-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Someone's not worried. Interesting.

I am. Ford Australia has started auditioning fat ladies. Territory has to be a success. I can't stress that enough. If Territory does not fire, we'll be driving Tauriis and Explorers.

Mullaly himself says that cars sold by Ford will be global platforms... or share DNA. And no more one-offs for single markets. Like Mustang ay? So for Mustang to go forward.... Falcon comes along for the ride. For Falcon to go forward... Mustang comes along for the ride. Imagine how much money they'd save, or how much better both cars would be by sharing R&D costs?

BTW. What do you mean by 'fat ladies'?

Paxton · 20-03-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

BTW. What do you mean by 'fat ladies'?

Have you never heard the line "It's not over 'till the fat lady sings"? The end appears to be growing near.

**Fordman1** · 20-03-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

BTW. What do you mean by 'fat ladies'?

Lol

Buntz · 20-03-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Have you never heard the line "It's not over 'till the fat lady sings"? The end appears to be growing near.

You see... still in my mind. FoA aren't done here as a manufacturer.

Paxton · 20-03-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

You see... still in my mind. FoA aren't done here as a manufacturer.

Probably only in yours.

Things are changing rapidly, and Falcon is on shaky ground.

Buntz · 20-03-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Probably only in yours.

Things are changing rapidly, and Falcon is on shaky ground.

Well I'm not sure where specifically at FoA you work... and what you're hearing, or what's being chatted around the water coolers. But the dates add up to a Falcon/Mustang cooperative for me.

Falcon. Decision to be made sometime 2011. Replacemnt reported as due late 2014, early 2015.
Mustang. Planning and theme for next gen Mustang commenced 2011. Introduction 2014.

Doesn't seem like their dates are coincidental.

stang65 · 20-03-2011, 08:37 PM

Well I'm not sure where specifically at FoA you work... and what you're hearing, or what's being chatted around the water coolers. But the dates add up to a Falcon/Mustang cooperative for me.

•Falcon. Decision to be made sometime 2011. Replacemnt reported as due late 2014, early 2015.
•Mustang. Planning and theme for next gen Mustang commenced 2011. Introduction 2014.
Doesn't seem like their dates are coincidental.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Someone's not worried. Interesting.

I am. Ford Australia has started auditioning fat ladies. Territory has to be a success. I can't stress that enough. If Territory does not fire, we'll be driving Tauriis and Explorers.

Easy guys I think it`s great that he hasn`t lost confidence in the brand and it`s possible he could be right.

The last few post`s towards him have been a bit agressive. We all think we are experts , some maybe have been around longer than others but the facts remain until Ford say what they are going to donobody knows 100% and that appplies to everyone on the forum.

Paxton · 20-03-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang65

Easy guys I think it`s great that he hasn`t lost confidence in the brand and it`s possible he could be right.

The last few post`s towards him have been a bit agressive. We all think we are experts , some maybe have been around longer than others but the facts remain until Ford say what they are going to donobody knows 100% and that appplies to everyone on the forum.

You're right, and I apologise. I am slightly more enlightened to what is going on at Ford, and what I'm hearing concerns me. This isn't the right arena to take that out on.

jpd80 · 20-03-2011, 08:54 PM

Just remember that 2014 Mustang gets released in the spring of 2013, two years time
and our next all new big car isn't due until 2015/2016 which means that engineering
could go either way, with FWD/AWD Fusion / Mondeo based variant or extension of
E8 Orion with different engines, possibly lightened body ready for one last bash.
Pretty much what Holden will do with light Zeta from 2014 to 2018....

Just a thought...

stang65 · 20-03-2011, 08:55 PM

You are a gentleman sir, some say "It's always darkest before dawn". I am not saying that what you hear around you isn`t true, but I have heard things in the workplace get very twisted from what was originally discussed.

I guess all we can do is keep our fingers crossed that Ford U.S do right by us.

jpd80 · 20-03-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang65

I guess all we can do is keep our fingers crossed that Ford U.S do right by us.

It's not FNA, the decision and business plan going forward are all FoA's responsibility,
FoA are compelled to review all continuing global vehicles and assess whether they are
suitable for Australia as is or with minor modification before substituting local product.

The lines are starting to blur a bit with customer preferences changing considerably
in the past few years and new FWD/AWD products being adopted globally make for a
compelling case, the only way a RWD Falcon will prevail is on cost and genuine need.

stang65 · 20-03-2011, 09:28 PM

but don`t ford U.S have the final say, isn`t that the whole idea of one ford for everybody else to conform. I `m sure Ford oz couldn`t turn around to Ford U.s and say our business case is strong enough and Ford U.S say ok the his ten billion dollars if they disagree they no give the money and nothing happens..

naddis01 · 20-03-2011, 09:38 PM

Can someone please explain to me the benefits of AWD over RWD in terms of engineering, packaging and fuel consumption?

Bossxr8 · 20-03-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Mullaly himself says that cars sold by Ford will be global platforms... or share DNA. And no more one-offs for single markets. Like Mustang ay? So for Mustang to go forward.... Falcon comes along for the ride. For Falcon to go forward... Mustang comes along for the ride. Imagine how much money they'd save, or how much better both cars would be by sharing R&D costs?

BTW. What do you mean by 'fat ladies'?

No more one off cars except for whatever the US wants, like Mustang and F series, because the whole world revolves around America and you can do as we say, not as we do.

The not made here syndrome still has strong roots in Detroit. Can't have the aussies showing them up.

jpd80 · 20-03-2011, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang65

but don`t ford U.S have the final say, isn`t that the whole idea of one ford for everybody else to conform. I `m sure Ford oz couldn`t turn around to Ford U.s and say our business case is strong enough and Ford U.S say ok the his ten billion dollars if they disagree they no give the money and nothing happens..

That nearly happened with FG , without government money there wasn't going to be another top hat for BF.
In the past, Ford's finance department used to rule product developemnt with an Iron Glove,
The only reason Falcon survived for so long was the way the business plan was presented
with evolutionary rolling changes and costs spread out over several years.

Mulally has also said to FoA, "if it doesn't work for you, don't do it."
That's why the I-6 was reinstated for now and saved a lot of cash
right when Ford couldn't afford to spend on closing down assets.

A business case is always presented to the Large car division in Dearborn,
the designs are reviewed and approved by Jay Mays and Derrick Kuzak,
that's why Mays was down here in February reviewing the progress of
the next product cycle proposals before final submission in September.

It's on FoA's head to make the numbers work whether that be a global car or a local development.

Bossxr8 · 20-03-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just remember that 2014 Mustang gets released in the spring of 2013, two years time
and our next all new big car isn't due until 2015/2016 which means that engineering
could go either way, with FWD/AWD Fusion / Mondeo based variant or extension of
E8 Orion with different engines, possibly lightened body ready for one last bash.
Pretty much what Holden will do with light Zeta from 2014 to 2018....

Just a thought...

The 50th anniversary Mustang would have to a 2014 and a 1/2 model wouldn't it considering the original was 64 and a 1/2. Wouldn't be released in 2013 cause that wouldn't be 50 years.

stang65 · 20-03-2011, 09:47 PM

Then i guess they need to pull their finger out and get some serious money to buy some good advertising.

jpd80 · 20-03-2011, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The 50th anniversary Mustang would have to a 2014 and a 1/2 model wouldn't it considering the original was 64 and a 1/2. Wouldn't be released in 2013 cause that wouldn't be 50 years.

I had the carp belted out of me by Mustang officianados, there is no '64 and a half model,
it was always called the '65 Mustang but the misnomer survived for decades.

Franco Cozzo · 20-03-2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Someone's not worried. Interesting.

I am. Ford Australia has started auditioning fat ladies. Territory has to be a success. I can't stress that enough. If Territory does not fire, we'll be driving Tauriis and Explorers.

If we lose the Falcon and Territory, does that mean we get Explorer, Taurus and F series?