Why is Commodore still outselling Falcon??

[Crofty]

Originally Posted by nat_daly

may have something to do with this being a FORD forums, so yes people are going to be rather biased towards falcons, but do you blame them? such beautiful cars..
:

if you feel happy trying to hide the fact commodores sell more.. then ok.. ? :1syellow1

like I said, im not one sided... just seeing how the facts read.. :

[blown351]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

Now this add shows Fords complete lack of abilitry to promote a car and its merits properly. This particular add is demeaning to women (alot of women call the shots with the purse strings) and does nothing for Fords image. Holden on the other hand throw plenty of performance orientated adds where cars turn up a storm doing burnouts etc. Gee, I wonder which car will get the better image and thus sell more. People dont buy cars based on seeing dogs run after a ute, nor for that matter do they buy them because hot women walk after them. They buy them because they are perceived better.

yeah but did you notice the piece of crap commodores only done the burnouts in the gravel not on the bitumen, e.g the one with thunderstruck as the theme song!!!

[XR666T]

Originally Posted by Crofty

if you feel happy trying to hide the fact commodores sell more.. then ok.. ? :1syellow1

like I said, im not one sided... just seeing how the facts read.. :

Who really cares if they sell more?

It's not what i'd base my decision to purchase a car on!

[Crofty]

The guy who started this thread? : That IS the topic afterall...

[banarcus]

I'm sure if someone asked Paul Gover, he would tell us all in a jiffy!

[AWD Chaser]

This question cannot be answered simply without knowing the marketing stratagies of both companies. There are many reasons why the Commodore may outsell the Ford... but on what level?

Private vs. Fleet?
Sedan vs. Wagon?
XT vs. Executive?
HSV vs. FPV?


Every single model is targeted at a different market. Holden may be outselling the Commie, but Ford may be making a better profit margin...

Silly question really....

And with GM owning Holden... do Jag/Mazda customers care their cars parents are Ford?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Does that mean Ford mean a great del to South Africa and Thailand?

Bit of inconsistency in your logic here MethodX. Holden means a great deal deal to Korea because an increasing number of Holdens are being imported from Korea. On the other hand South Africa and Thailand mean a great deal to Australia because Australian-made Ford Territorys are being exported there.

I'm a bit of an outsider to this Holden vs Ford thing because I owned other brands for 30 years but drove Holdens and Fords in fleets and always found them both pretty mediocre. Then owned 2 Holdens and quickly discovered that Holden are very good at customer focus and not very good at making cars. Then changed to the Territory and find that Ford have become very good at making cars but not so good on customer focus.

I think the answer to the question posed by this thread is that buyers respond to customer focus more than the quality of the car. Put govt fleet purchases on top of this and you have sales going Commodore's way. Again as an outsider I'd say there's really not a lot between the Commodore and Falcon but the current Falcon does have the definite design and quality edge.

This is not going to convince the die-hards in either camp!

[MethodX]

The Korea line gets a tad tiring is all..

Both companies are American multinationals, who import cars from other divisions.

Focus comes from Seth Efrica, Courier from Thailand.

[new2ford]

Thanks for enlightening me MethodX - I was being a bit tongue in cheek! So how many Holdens are exported to Korea then?

[MethodX]

Oh so am i, u need to be around here lol.

Not sure on the number.
There were plans to export Statesmans to Korea, not sure if that has happened yet.

[T3rminator]

Because the braindead monkeys running the blue oval company are pathetic and incompetent. (no offence to any Ford employees here).

Seriously they are useless.......have no understanding of the phrase "customer satisfaction" and couldn't market a hooker in a brothel.

"Should we give them a lift?'
"No...they're dogs!"

Doesn't that make you wanna buy a falcon!

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=SlickHolden]That is a flying guess.


Holden haven't won a championship in years how can they use it?.
Like they say in footy 1 win doesn't make a year.
QUOTE]

Ah...

Holden won from 98 to 2002, four years straight, until the BA, trust me people still remember. Three years of winning for Ford is beginning to pay dividends, look at BA sales compared to the unwinning AU. Also Ford haven't won at Bathurst since 1998 and yes Holden do use that. Im not saying that motorsport influences everyone, just that either manufacturer winning provides a building block for marketing. You can't tell me that marketing on the back of motorsport performance does not have influence on buyers. Massive hypothetical, but had Lowndes won the championship in an AU at his first hit-out. The affect on sales would not have been massive or even dented Holdens gap, but it would have been larger than had he not. Success, be it in racing, or even winning an award of such (magazines etc..) does make a difference.

[SSBUB]

its funny, where i live i get better after care service and generally nicer people at my local ford dealer (from whom i bought my SS off 2nd hand) and have seen to all my warranty claims, which have included expendables such as belts, locks etc. Mind you sometimes they werent fixed properly but atleast done right the 2nd time around. Everytime i go to the local holden dealer to browse or when we were shopping for the misses car, we got terrible service, they tried to rip us in a bad way, and were just shoddy. Holden sucks here, and Ford pass the test. Sounds like its the opposite of what goes around normally?

[Mondie]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

This issue is being over complicated with all the servicing, sales and talk about porduction numbers and the rest.

Its a simple image issue. Holden marketing craps all over Fords. Look at fords recent add campaign, they start with a ford ute driveing through town where models walk after a car. They then follow it up with an add where instead of good looking women, dogs chase the car, the passenger turns to the driver and proclaims, theyre dogs.

Now this add shows Fords complete lack of abilitry to promote a car and its merits properly. This particular add is demeaning to women (alot of women call the shots with the purse strings) and does nothing for Fords image. Holden on the other hand throw plenty of performance orientated adds where cars turn up a storm doing burnouts etc. Gee, I wonder which car will get the better image and thus sell more. People dont buy cars based on seeing dogs run after a ute, nor for that matter do they buy them because hot women walk after them. They buy them because they are perceived better.

l could not agree more, those ads make me cringe and always get a negative reaction from my wife who is a Ford fan. Just dumb. misguided advertising. l would hate to think how many millions are paid to the agency that cooks that crap up each year.

Ford dropping the V8 in the 80's is still hurting them now as is the HCT/HSV brand image that Holden have had to themselves for far too many years. Everyone likes a winner
and thats Holdens edge, they market themselves as such and it works.

[ltd]

Depends on who owns the dealership I guess. When ford owned their dealerships their was a massive customer focus drive, but since being farmed out to various other companies, the customer focus has fallen. For me, my Ford dealer does all the servicing on all of my cars because they are that good. I got the merc serviced there last friday and cost $350 including merc parts. Mercedes wanted $1200 for the same.

Also, it helps when the blokes at Ford get to know you and you don't do your lolly when something doesn't go right. Used to get shoddy service until one day when informed of a problem I just said; "oh well, it happens". With this attitude over the years, I've never had a single problem since, and the guys there including the mechanics like to come and have a chat about what's going on. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I fully trust my local dealership. For instance, when the merc was in there the other day and we were trying to find a rattle, the mechanic got changed before going on a test drive. I only wish my family were as nice to my cars as these blokes are.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Bucket

No- once again, over all Ford dont produce that many E-Gas falcons and then even when it comes to private conversions, you have to allow for the queue up...rediculous waiting times for LPG to be fitted atm. Its probably something like 90% Petrol Falcons, 10% E-Gas (though im guessing its even less). Ford Cant produce as many commodores as Holden can and a Majority of Governments run Holden Commodores both MWB and LWB.
Theyre are no where near as many BA Taxi's on the road as there used to be AU's and those AU's are still on the Road today..A Majority of Taxi drivers will run them into the ground because it makes sense...they dont get much money back on their falcons because of the rediculously high K's. Most Government organisation put their fleet requests out to Tender, this means that you are pretty much guaranteed that Holden will beat Ford to the gong when it comes to fleet plans. It all comes down to the best offer, the bottom dollar and Holden can afford to sell their commodores at fleet prices that leasing companies or organisations would have to be stupid to turn their noses up at.

Well if you bought a AU in 00-01-02 your not going to grab a BA till maybe 05-06. If you bought a AU in 98 I'm sure many bought a BA by now, they don't want to run them for 900,000km if they don't have to, Most will give them the flick by 600,00 or 700,000, They wouldn't own a Taxi for more then 3-4 years. My friends father is a taxi driver in the 9 years i have known her he has had 3 taxis. Admittingly he only changed the VT because he got rolled from behind. He bought a BA.
But i don't think ford is even trying when it comes to fleet at the moment.

Originally Posted by Bucket

Seemed like a majority of Fact in there though

The VE is having a majority of its parts outsourced for cost cutting.. two of those being China and Korea.

Something people haven't thought of is per car made in Australia if only 51% of it's content is Australian parts supplied, By car made I'm sure Holden builds 30-40% more cars overall then Ford do. That little 51% will go along way.
The time will come for Ford to do the same you will see. But they will make it 52% so everyone can say my car has more Aussie parts in it:P

Originally Posted by blown351

yeah but did you notice the piece of crap commodores only done the burnouts in the gravel not on the bitumen, e.g the one with thunderstruck as the theme song!!!

Your a real Nob it's a ad man lol :evil_laug

Originally Posted by fullthrottle

Because the braindead monkeys running the blue oval company are pathetic and incompetent. (no offence to any Ford employees here).

Seriously they are useless.......have no understanding of the phrase "customer satisfaction" and couldn't market a hooker in a brothel.

"Should we give them a lift?'
"No...they're dogs!"

Doesn't that make you wanna buy a falcon!

That highlighted word is so tasteless if you only knew how much.




One ford ad makes me sick, When the mother is in the hospital and she has just gave birth but takes off on her baby to go buy a car? It's so wrong that ad.

[FGX-351]

the guys at torque ford here at brendale/strathpine are awesome, ild recommend them to anyone(im glad i found a dealer that isnt like some of the ones you guys have experienced) and to add to the topic its allin the advertisment, i tested a few current model commodores and a supercharged statesman(lol this one was for **** factor:P) and even the statesman(wh) had nothing on the ba, in the commodores i had to be on the throttle the whole bloody time especially in the statesman the thing lost speed so quickly if i took my foot off where as the falcons are great off the line and cruise along with no dramas(one thing i really like about long highway drives in my xf) but for the parts that actually matter to me when selecting a new car features, comfort, reliability, interior design the falcon crapped all over the commodores and statesman, the vy/z commodores are living to much in the past especially with interior design, i found the insides really bland and nothing that really excited me about driving them although im really glad i had a play in them cause now its given me no reason to doubt the falcon at allbut the ba was so much fun to drive and really comfortable and had a more up market/sporty feel even though it was an xt, commodore just felt thrown together and not much effort went into designing the vy/z dash, lol and theres my annual commodore rant for may

[LeMans]

I haven’t read all these posts so apologies if this has already been noted, but last I heard Ford were making bigger profits out of their sales of Falcon/Territory than Holden from sales of the Commodore. So who between Ford and Holden is getting it right? But then again, that fits in with Holden's philosophy of "more is better" and Fords philosophy of "smart is better".

[ltd]

Originally Posted by LeMans

I haven’t read all these posts so apologies if this has already been noted, but last I heard Ford were making bigger profits out of their sales of Falcon/Territory than Holden from sales of the Commodore. So who between Ford and Holden is getting it right? But then again, that fits in with Holden's philosophy of "more is better" and Fords philosophy of "smart is better".

That's actually part fo the reason why GM in the states is in so much trouble. They heavily, and I mean really heavily discounted all of their trucks like the 1500, 2500 and 3500 in order to get huge sales around the time the new F series trucks came out, marketed the hell out of them and cut the prices to within 10-15% above production costs; just to win the business. Then, when all of the V8 problems started to surface GM replaced the affected engines under warranty, when the enormity of the situation hit that so many engines; LS1, LS2, LS6, LS7 etc were effected GM baulked on the warranty claims and just said the noise and oil consumption were normal. That's where the class actions comes in. All because they slashed prices so that replacing major components on these trucks eroded any miniscule profit made. Atleast Ford hadn't been so recklessly discounting to try and get sales, and at least they had Bridgestone to help out in their civil liabilities, because the explorer/firestone/kaboom almost ended Ford USA.

[Stoney!]

Originally Posted by phat_stak_tipa

hey bucko u got some wrong ideas there. LPG burns cleaner compared to petrol therefore it keeps oil cleaner.....genrally oil doesnt lose its lubrication value from being old it loses it due to the amount of by products that contaminate it e.g as petrol is "dirtier" it contaminates quicker and degrades the oils value.... which inturn speeds up wear even if regular servicing is done. if a car can run on unleaded it can run just fine on LPG....and by the way cars that are stop started more frequently wear out quicker......a taxi is always warm if they sit its usually not long enough to cool down.....y do u think most family hacks need rebuilds quicker than taxis.... a taxi donk will do 1 mill kays no prob on the original donk....also LPG has a higher octane rating than fuel which is also good for donks.....i know all this coz i have personally seen this with my families security business we have falcons and mazdas (323) on gas and all have run fine.....our little mazda has 330,000 kays on it and its only a 1.6 the falcs all had well over 500,000 on them when we sold them if it wasnt for downgrades we would still have the falcs and theyd still be going....i dont buy your excuse on holden taxis....also who wants to do up 2 heads instead of 1 and believe me head/valvetrain probs occur more with the v6.... also transmissions dont last as long in the holden as they do in the ford so keep telling yourself your story if u dont know dont talk......

Considering we tried a few cars on LPG and apart from the intermittent faults we had with the AU LPG's one of them was bought by one of the clowns in head office in a bid to try and cut his fuel ill, He did just that till recently after using it like a company car every year he had to have his engine replaced approx 6 months ago withoil rings shot and compression rings wearing.

And i don't care about your so called little business I now work in the bus industry and we have 12 litre Meercedes gas engines in need of replacement after only 6 YEARS!!! Would you like to know how long the same Mercedes 12 litre engine in diesel format lasts, well its currently 18 years and counting!!! Not to mention the overheating problems with the higher friction inside thease massive engines, jesus the amount of gas buses off the road in summer is rediculous specially when there is only 300 gas mercs and approx 900 diesel mercs in the entire sydney buses fleet, thats just the mercs, don't get me started on the gas vs diesel in the scanias.

And too whoever said that i came here bashing fords and supporting commodores, there is a reason for that, because of the amount of problems I had with Falcons while using them, thankfully only a small number leaving me stranded and late for meetings, yet the commodore was minimal, those can say all the problems I have listed i can put back on the commodore but no I can't, because it was a great car in comparison.

I signed up to this forum when I saw it because I thought I could discuss the problems I had with my ford to see if others experienced similar when i found the correct thread, but by seeing the mentality and narrow mindedness of most of the users of this forum I realised it was a waste of time, you guys need to be a little bit more suportive of what people say and listen when people that have owned cars with problems speak.

I'm not saying they all do it, can't comment if mine was the only one or not, but i was simply telling you exactly what went wrong and why It drov me to ask for a commodore for my next compnay car which is basically what this whole thread was about.

In the words of Holden.
GAME OVER!

[elgt146]

I have no idea of the sales figures but I will make a comment about the marketing.

Ford just haven't got it right.

The only add that gets you wanting to buy a Ford is the FPV Performance Inc. Add and the one I often see is an add for a local dealer not Ford Australia.

Ford lost the marketing race with the AU Falcon. Not because of the car but because of it's marketing. Craig Lowndes & Marcos Ambrose driving around a testing bowl in a Ute while Holden were showing rip off's of Video Games "Game Over" etc. Plus other crappy adds Ford were showing or lack of adds.

Ford need to market more to families rather than just guys. I don't think I have ever seen an add for a Ford Territory, Focus. It is usually just their best seller the ute & XR Range but once again the adds don't do the cars justice.

There was an add made once when the BA GT was released that showed a Phase 3 Ho morphing into a new BA GT on Conrod Straight. Never once saw it on telly but it would have been the ideal stirrer to get people to look at a GT.

Ford need to realise women do have money, do like cars, and do make there own decisions. Maybe an advert showing this would make a difference in alot of females perception that if you don't have a Holden or Import your not worth knowing.

Ford also need to spec up their Car Show releases. Every year they are upstaged by Holden. (Monaro, Concept Maloo Ute, FJ, Torana etc.)

And what have Ford had ummmmm lets try remember oh the Territory, mmmmm I think the GT was released as well.
They also released one year a silver dual cab AU Ute but never released it. This was before Holden had their dual cab. Ford missed out on that one.

They need to get their act together, finally they have responded and got a Drift Car doing the scene. They need to maybe sponsor someone in the Drag Racing scene if they aren't already. It is one of the biggest fan bases of motorsport.

They need to flog any win they get as much as they can.

Bringing out half hearted Ingall & Ambrose specials was pretty poor.
They need to make some mighty decisions and make a select few big $$$ cars that will become collectable and wanted by the small minority that can afford them. This will at the same time increase there profile.

GT & GT-P are now run of the mill see them everywhere. Don't get me wrong they are a nice car but so is a club sport. Now if Ford put something special out there in limited numbers then that will increase the profile.

Ford also try hide under the Kilowatt war and say they are not interested. Wake Up ! Wake Up ! The normal person looks at that figure and goes Oh the Holden has 300kw it must be faster. Unfortunately that is the way of the perception of public therefore Ford is marked as a slower car.


Anyway I could go on. It has something that has bugged me since the crap AU Falcon adds.

[ltd]

Stoney, Sydney buses run on compressed natural gas CNG not Liquified Petroleum Gas LPG, and the diesels you speak of are only 18 because like everything else in NSW, rather than replace anything to comply to standards they are throwing tonnes of money at keeping the old crap moving. The benchmark lifespan of a bus in the public sector is 12 years, NSW are on 18 plus years and counting. 6 years for a CNG engine that does very high mileage is quite good.

The reason why they do not last as long as diesel is because they are subjected to higher head temperatures. However, they also only have a fuel cost of 18-22 cents per litre (CNG not LPG), and diesel has a cost of 146 cents per litre. Each bus will cost the following in fuel over the course of 1 million kilometres.

CNG 80/100K @ 22cpl is $176,000
Diesel 40l/100k @146cpl is $584,000

Kinda makes up for the lesser life span of CNG huh?
Not to mention the political mileage (check the big signs on the side of CNG buses) of running CNG, clean exhaust vehicles than the diesels with lots of visible pollution.

Just curious, at 21 years of age what do you do within the STA that requires you to have a company car?

Finally, your last quip with "Holden Game Over", well if Delphi get their way and Shanghai auto group buys GM, it could well be the case.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by elgt146

I have no idea of the sales figures but I will make a comment about the marketing.

January 2006
Feburary 2006
March 2006
April 2006

FF

[geoffa1]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

January 2006
Feburary 2006
March 2006
April 2006

FF

Hey FF, great set of figures. I have tracked the sales of Australian made vehicles (VFACTS data) since the start of 2004, and Ford is still ahead of Holden. Buggered if I know why Ford doesn't shout it from the tops of buildings. :

[BPXR6T]

This is an easy one in my mind. Flame suit on, the standard commodore looks better than the non XR BA-BF. I hate the front lights on the normal BA-BF falcon. The BA-BF XR is a whole different story...

[BPXR6T]

Oh yeah, and I forgot the territory. I saw one in the dealer when I was buying an XR6T and thought wow that'll look great dumped with big wheels. Then I saw one on the street done up. Nothing can be done to make them look good in my opinion. I don't like the styling on the front bumper, too round too ugly...

[SSBUB]

Ya gotta chill Stoney
YOu cant expect to try and tarnish fords name in a ford forum. Bad experiences or not. I drive a holden and know that

[nobbystang]

Originally Posted by FourBarrel

Oh yeah, and I forgot the territory. I saw one in the dealer when I was buying an XR6T and thought wow that'll look great dumped with big wheels. Then I saw one on the street done up. Nothing can be done to make them look good in my opinion. I don't like the styling on the front bumper, too round too ugly...

I saw a Territory around here over summer, was lower than norm with big chromies and black all over, looked awesome. think it had an fpv badge on the back door though, wtf??? didn't know thwy touched them

[BPXR6T]

I almost like the territory. I just hope future models will tweak some of the small styling mods that turn me off. I'd love to see one air bagged...

[Andy XR8]

i didn't read this whole thread and will probably repeat someone but its because holden export more cars than ford
if you find the sales figures for cars sold in australia only you will see ford
beat holden