Ford executives comment on the future of Falcon and Territory

[FPV GTHO]

They must have a MCA in development surely

[greens_tuf]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I dont think you can ever blame the consumer..

FG was released looking like a BFII, it was old before its time as the graphics and proportions are almost identical to the model which had roots back to 2002.

Marketing was and continues to be appalling.

Its sedan only - almost an automatic death sentence for vehicles between $30k to $50k.

No desirable V8 luxury and sports versions (excluding FPV).

Competing against Mondeo in the same showroom.

G series naming which means nothing in the market and in my opinion not made up for lost Futura, Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia sales.

Feature content continues to lack a little.

I agree with Brazen,

It's not a simple market anymore... You're not just competing against other large cars but also medium cars and soft roaders like the CX7.

I'm in the market for a family car (we have our first child on the way) and I've been looking at Territory's, XR6's, G6E's, and the Mondeo Titanium.

I like the G6E, but for a luxury car I find that it is lacking in its trims and extra luxury features. A friend bought a Honda Accord Euro Navi 2011 demo for $38,000 last week, just looking at the features and interior (on paper and photos) it looks like it is a better luxury package than the G6E.

I think the thing is, if I was to pick up a demo G6E and compare it to the Honda Accord, from a non car person's point of view (obviously totally different in the engine and drivetrain department) you seem like you are getting more value for money in the features and luxury department and a better finish buying the Honda...

For example they could change little things like the hard textured plastic in the Falcons, you'd think that they would change it for the G6E instead of carrying it on from the base model.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Perhaps, but there is nothing overly wrong with it is there? As long as the contents and drivetrains are kept up to date then it should be ok.

Of course, but I'm just recalling the comments made at FG release when it was said the platform had an 8 year lifespan. I guess an extra 2 years won't matter, but it will need an MCE next year and then another in 2015/16 wouldn't it?

[Road_Warrior]

Here is a much more substantive article, from GoAuto this time. Ford are taking a bit of a veiled swipe at the Australian motoring media for jumping to conclusions and making assumptions:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257980000D22F9

Regional boss insists that Ford Australia’s manufacturing future is not yet decided

9 January 2012

By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS in DELHI

A SENIOR Ford executive has admitted that the future of the company’s manufacturing operations in Australia is not confirmed beyond the current model Falcon and Territory.

Ford Asia Pacific and Africa president Joe Hinrichs, whose region includes Ford Australia, revealed to GoAuto at the Delhi Auto Expo in India last week that a clear direction has yet to be fully determined.

It appears that Ford has delayed deciding what the Falcon replacement will be, as well as the future of manufacturing at Broadmeadows, amid a tumultuous 12 months of a skyrocketing currency, freefalling large-car sales, shifting consumer tastes, fragmenting vehicle segments and environmental catastrophes.

Mr Hinrichs told us that Ford is far from being alone in such decision-making processes.

He said the rapidly changing landscape over such a relatively short period of time means no firm anywhere in the world is now able to plan too far into the future without massive risk.

However, he expects recent and upcoming new model releases such as the Fiesta, Focus, Territory diesel, Ranger, Kuga and EcoSport will turn Ford Australia around, and also reiterated the vital role that Australia plays in the ‘One Ford’ strategy from a design and development point of view.

Ford is thought to be investigating at least three likely Falcon replacement scenarios – manufacturing the next Taurus (due in about 2016) in Australia for local and export consumption, importing the next Taurus and switching the Broadmeadows vehicle line to another model, or ceasing local production completely (but not local engineering).

“We haven’t said anything about D/E vehicle platforms globally,” said Mr Hinrichs.

“We’ve got Mustang, we’ve got Falcon and we’ve got Taurus, but we have time for it to evolve and see we’re we are going to go with that.

“We are moving to global platforms and global scales, but part of our challenge is that we have a business plan in cycle. And we don’t really ever have good/bad/indifferent talks about the business plan. We don’t go in and say ‘Plant X is going to stay open for the next 15 years’ because we don’t know what will be 15 years from now.

“Trust me, I understand the interest in the future of Falcon and Broadmeadows. Believe me, I do.

“At the same time, we don’t talk about any of our manufacturing plans beyond a certain timeframe, so you guys might draw certain conclusions right or wrong.

“That’s why we get so anxious sometimes because we’re saying ‘we’re putting EcoBoost in Falcon, we’re putting LPI into Falcon, we’re putting diesel into Territory’, and we’re in that phase, but people are saying things (regarding Ford Australia’s) longer term (future) and drawing up conclusions.

“We’ve already said that if we do another platform, it won’t be unique to Australia – and we’ve said that repeatedly – but we’re not there yet.

“In the meantime, Broadmeadows production has dropped, which concerns us … but that doesn’t mean we come to a conclusion that is pre-determined to an outcome to the future of manufacturing. I don’t think we have made that decision yet.

“We plan for alternatives – we’re a business – but we’re still investing in the (current) Falcon and Territory.

“Do you go to a global rear-wheel-drive platform for large cars? That’s a decision that needs to be made.

“The Falcon name, large car segment, rear-wheel drive versus other alternatives, global platform, manufacturing – all these things are related, but they’re also part of the decision-making process.

“The choice we’ve made in the near-term is to continue to invest in Falcon and Territory and continue to make that business equation work – and it does today.

“Tomorrow we start planning for the future. We have started studying plans and alternatives for the future, as we’re expected to be, and there are different scenarios and different options.

“We’re also seeing the large-car market in the US decline … so there’s a lot to this.

“We’re not going to tell you now, but there will be the right time to say it whenever that is, and at the same time it is a lot more complicated.

“We’ve said we’re doing global platforms on B, C and D, but that implies we’re not going to do global platforms on D/E. I won’t give you the answer to that, but there are two alternatives.

“(Ford CEO Alan Mulally said) ‘if or when we do another large car it will be on a global platform’, but we have Mustang that today is on its own platform and it’s a very important car in our portfolio. That’s why it’s complicated.

“We have a strategy we’re trying to adhere to, but at the same time we’re trying to make business decisions.

“I’m sensitive to the issues and all the interest in it. There’s a lot of passion around Falcon in Australia – believe me, I get emails. I appreciate it. We love that.

“We’ll tell people of our plans when we’re ready to tell them … but it is fascinating to me that the people draw the conclusions that all these decisions have been made, when we’re sitting here asking the same thing.

“We’re playing it year by year, but at the same time we’re looking to where the business is going.

“One thing that’s changed lately is that the (large-car) segment has shrunk faster than we expected this time last year, and that’s a new dynamic we have to deal with. We weren’t expecting just 20,000 Falcons in 2011.

“Of course, the Australian market itself is a very important market for Ford and has been for a very long time. Especially now with the product portfolio we are putting in the Australian business, we have high expectations for our performance in the market there.

“There are three important components (to Ford Australia) – it’s a very important market, it’s a very important product development centre (one of the largest ones we have in the world) and of course very important is the manufacture of the Falcon and Territory.

“But the Australian (market) is changing … It’s expanding to include more smaller vehicles, as well as more fuel-efficient vehicles. Consumer needs and desires are converging around the world and that’s true for Australia as well.”

Mr Hinrichs championed the design and engineering facilities in Broadmeadows and Geelong, stating that the considerable investment Ford has undertaken over the last few years has created a world-class team in Australia.

“Part of the value (to Ford) are the facilities and test tracks in Geelong that already exist because land and facility investment is significant, so that experience base in Australia – though it is getting more expensive because of the appreciation of the Australian dollar – is very valuable to us.

“Our product development is growing full-bore globally because we have so much new product coming that we’re leveraging that experience that is critical to us … in Melbourne and Geelong.

“However, we’re also seeing significant growth in our engineering facilities in China. China is an 18 million unit market so it can obviously support a development centre on its own in conjunction with the rest of the world. Don’t underestimate how important all those facilities are to the Ford product portfolio.”

In reaction to rumours that Ford Australia is leading development of a large-car program for China, Mr Hinrichs said: “Within the region, Ford Australia’s development centre is very important … and is working on other products in conjunction with our engineering centre in Nanjing.”

Asked if the Australian government’s decision almost a year ago to phase out the Green Car Innovation Fund was a major setback affecting the decision on the future of the Broadmeadows and Geelong facilities, Mr Hinrichs said Ford has “a very good relationship” with the government.

“I can tell you in all sincerity that when we’ve brought Ford projects to discuss with the Australian government, we’ve had a receptive relationship and a good response.

“I value manufacturing, and so does Alan (Mulally). It is an important part of the economy. But at the same time we have to deal with the individual government policies and the competitiveness of markets.”

I think they genuinely aren't sure, and are waiting to see what happens to the Falcon once Ecoboost is on the market.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Here is a much more substantive article, from GoAuto this time. Ford are taking a bit of a veiled swipe at the Australian motoring media for jumping to conclusions and making assumptions:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257980000D22F9



I think they genuinely aren't sure, and are waiting to see what happens to the Falcon once Ecoboost is on the market.

I was going to get clarification frrom JPFS1 on what he said earlier but this article pretty much says it all. A good read and makes a lot of sense.

[Polyal]

Good article..

In reaction to rumours that Ford Australia is leading development of a large-car program for China, Mr Hinrichs said: “Within the region, Ford Australia’s development centre is very important … and is working on other products in conjunction with our engineering centre in Nanjing.”

Dont tell me Asia Pacific couldn't do with a Lincoln type RWD sedan based on the Falcon. Wasnt there talk of Lincoln coming here a few years ago? Mind you they said they same about Cadillac...but given how large cars are going maybe there is not enough room.

There are so many options it does your head in, but IMO I see no value in another C/D car added to Fords global portfolio. Surely there is more profit potential in chasing D/E cars. The Germans dominate that class and I dont think Ford has ever really had a competitor.

Also...

“Part of the value (to Ford) are the facilities and test tracks in Geelong that already exist because land and facility investment is significant, so that experience base in Australia – though it is getting more expensive because of the appreciation of the Australian dollar – is very valuable to us.

Which is key for us....they spent some major dosh not long ago for Ranger and they would surely want to leverage that as much as they can. I couldnt see the Mustang sharing Falcon hardpoints..or it being developed anywhere else other than America.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

They must have a MCA in development surely

Next years update was rumoured to be substantial. Wether it is or not I don't know, but it would need to be if they want to carry it onwards to 2018. They would also need to do another upgrade a couple years later as well.

I guess they want to see if sales keep dropping before they make a decision. Hopefully the 50 mil is extra money to make the next update even more substantial to keep it going longer.

If Falcon sales contimue to drop over the next 2 years its done for really, they will definately know by then if the numbers are sustainable or not.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Next years update was rumoured to be substantial.

Whatever happened to 'Huntsman'?

[EgoFG]

IMHO dropping Wagon and LWB has lost more sales than just the wagon and LWB sales.
Had this not happened I would expect that Falcon platform sales would have passed Commodore platform sales this year.
But the Q that ford need to conside is "Did the average per unit profit increase or decrease as a result of dropping Wagon and LWB ?"
To answer that they would need to assume Falcon platform sales would have had similar % growth(or decline) in each market segment as the commodore based vehicles.

I believe that they gave away too much of the falcon name to meet short term bottom line.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Whatever happened to 'Huntsman'?

Around here, mentioning the V6 Falcon in the same breath as the I-6 is a hangin' offense.

[FPV GTHO]

I thought the V6 project was nicknamed "123" or something numerical like that.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Around here, mentioning the V6 Falcon in the same breath as the I-6 is a hangin' offense.

But the V6 Falcon program went under a different project name an Huntsman was still straight 6 IIRC.

EDIT: beaten.

[Polyal]

The I6 can go if it means we have access to the EB3.5 and 5.0.

The way i see it is you lose less jobs saving that Falcon than you do saving the I6..I reckon its asking to much to keep both even though it would be AMAZING to see the I6 globally developed, or given some serious cash. But with the V6 so good it would be an odd move.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I thought the V6 project was nicknamed "123" or something numerical like that.

Fans nicknamed it "Huntsmen" before knowing what was being developed...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Brazen

and proportions are almost identical to the model which had roots back to 2002.

Other way round, the FG design would have been frozen in...the BFII update was planned to introduce fords new design flavor.

Just sayn'

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

the plan gets them through to 2018..

Is that a typo in the article or has the plan now changed?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I thought the V6 project was nicknamed "123" or something numerical like that.

If I can remember that far back 123 was BFII.

Huntsman was supposed to be the model after FG, but was canned after the V6 plan was introduced?????

So never got put into production???

I'd say its likely the new date has been pushed back to 2018 now, but that opens up another can of worms because the Falcon and Territory will both need Euro 5 compatible engines by 2014 (do-able) and Euro 6 by 2017? (probably not). Have to see the exemption laws put into place, it may make it to 2018 without having to go to Euro 6.

Euro 5 now seems like its going to have to be a certainty.

To me it seems like they want to keep an eye on sales over the next 2 years to see what happens, and then make a decision, and doing that requires the platform to have to soldier on for another 2 years.

[Polyal]

As long as FoA properly back the car though, not simply just be in the market and expect people to come to them. "Build it and they will come" can only do so much

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If I can remember that far back 123 was BFII.

I thought that was Copperhead, or at least the update that more or less was shared between BA2-BF-BF2

[Road_Warrior]

IIRC 123 was the V6 project for the FG.

[Polyal]

Copperhead was definitely BF or BF2...nothing to do with the V6.

[jpd80]

Duratec v6 was a struggle to fit into FG let alone narrower engine bay of BA-BF.
If they are going to 2018, there's a chance that corporate engines will be with us
sooner than later but they may be more different than we think...

Maybe that EB 2.0, a V6 Diesel and a 5.0 V8 for giggles are the only survivors...
A big car without sufficient fuel economy for 2013-2018 has no future.....

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Copperhead was definitely BF or BF2...nothing to do with the V6.

Copperhead is BFII

Even has it written on BFII headlight boxes

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Maybe that EB 2.0, a V6 Diesel and a 5.0 V8 for giggles are the only survivors...
A big car without sufficient fuel economy for 2013-2018 has no future.....

Dare i say, thats all they need to be competitive. With a strong enough gearbox and some lighter weight, the EB20 will give NA I6 performance and the diesel can be an option for hauling more weight. The problem then is, how much of the body or chassis do they change as an MCA if theyre not going to wait until 2016-18.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Copperhead is BFII

Even has it written on BFII headlight boxes

I think Copperhead was originally going to be a single update. If you take both the new 6 speed transmissions, upspecced I6, the BF2 look and the NVH improvements they wouldve had a significant update but they needed it all to last 6 years and not the typical 4.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Duratec v6 was a struggle to fit into FG let alone narrower engine bay of BA-BF.
If they are going to 2018, there's a chance that corporate engines will be with us
sooner than later but they may be more different than we think...

Would D35/37 fit in the Territory's engine bay without any renovations? If so that's one black mark against the I6's future.

[Brazen]

So FG and SZ Territory with updates are here till 2018..? Or will the new platform come earlier?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Copperhead is BFII

Even has it written on BFII headlight boxes

Copperhead was BF

123 was V6

[Paxton]

News is forthcoming guys, just be patient.

As with everything, there will be winners and losers.

[jpd80]

Some believe it's darkest right before dawn.......