Ford Delivers Outstanding Value with FG Falcon MkII

[ivorya]

I know Ford Aus will be pushing the LPG to fleet but have they been able to produce the ecoboost to allow them to test drive?
All seems to have gone quiet on the ecoboost front!

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by ivorya

I know Ford Aus will be pushing the LPG to fleet but have they been able to produce the ecoboost to allow them to test drive?
All seems to have gone quiet on the ecoboost front!

We're three months away from EcoBoost, and from what we've heard on the forums, it will hold its own to the I6, but use less fuel than a 3.0 SIDI.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by shewi6

Love the new styling on the xr series! So much so that combined with the price reductions i can seriously see myself getting an xr6 instead of a ranger. If price wasnt a factor then i would definately get the ranger, but im hoping to get a manual xr6 with luxury pack for around 40k. Does anyone know if that would be ballpark area for what it would go for?

I reckon you might be looking at about the 40k(or a little more) mark for a XR6 w/lux pack. I believe the FG was going for 35k-37k. In my position(lease) I'm happy to pay the 3k or so more for the series 2 as I'll get more on resale anyway.

I asked my dealer about the lux pack and why its the same price as it was in series 1 FG, even though colour screen is included now as standard... he gave me the biggest 'WTF face' I'd ever seen and obviously no answer. I really despise dealing with car salesman at my dealership, no disrespect to anyone here who may be in the business. I just don't understand how one can be so disinterested in their chosen line of work.

Anyway... what do you guys think of sports bars on the ute? Don't see too many around these days but that'll change as they're all standard now on MKII XR Utes. I'm thinking bars w/3 piece lid.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by Paxton

We're three months away from EcoBoost, and from what we've heard on the forums, it will hold its own to the I6, but use less fuel than a 3.0 SIDI.

Being that the Ecoboost is already in Mondeo at 149kw / 300nm(1580kg - 8.0L/100km), It's really hard to see Falcon being better than 8.5L - 9L due to extra weight.

9sec 0-100km and 9.0L/100km would be my guess for Falcon Ecoboost. Surely they'll be cheaper too! Give me the EcoLPI for 2.5k more any day if not.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Being that the Ecoboost is already in Mondeo at 149kw / 300nm(1580kg - 8.0L/100km), It's really hard to see Falcon being better than 8.5L - 9L due to extra weight.

9sec 0-100km and 9.0L/100km would be my guess for Falcon Ecoboost. Surely they'll be cheaper too! Give me the EcoLPI for 2.5k more any day if not.

We're not getting the Mondeo motor. I'll repeat something we've seen here on the Forums - over 400 NM.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Being that the Ecoboost is already in Mondeo at 149kw / 300nm(1580kg - 8.0L/100km), It's really hard to see Falcon being better than 8.5L - 9L due to extra weight.

9sec 0-100km and 9.0L/100km would be my guess for Falcon Ecoboost. Surely they'll be cheaper too! Give me the EcoLPI for 2.5k more any day if not.

Your a fair way off. I'd say power will be 175 +, economy in the 8's at a given, high 7's at the most. Weight will be over 50kg lighter probably more.

I'd say 0-100 time will run NA6 very close. Its a strong engine. Just look at how MB are doing with their 4 cylinder turbo 4 C Class. Very impressive speed and economy for such a small engine.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Your a fair way off. I'd say power will be 175 +, economy in the 8's at a given, high 7's at the most. Weight will be over 50kg lighter probably more.

Doesn't really make sense that the Mondeo is delivering 8.0L then(Wheels), especially if the rumours are true and the Falcon puts out 25kw / 100nm more, while having 100kg+ on the Mondeo even with the lighter engine???

How in this case does "high 7's at the most" seem logical?

[jpd80]

We had to get in line for Ecoboost engines, such is the demand for them elsewhere..
The Ecoboost 2.0 is a very exciting concept and will place Falcon in front of buyers who
wouldn't normally consider a big sedan, now that's as good as developing a new vehicle line...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

We had to get in line for Ecoboost engines, such is the demand for them elsewhere..
The Ecoboost 2.0 is a very exciting concept and will place Falcon in front of buyers who
wouldn't normally consider a big sedan, now that's as good as developing a new vehicle line...

Ecoboot wont be as good as a new vehicle line.

1. Private buyers will default to the I6 with more power and torque for a lesser price.
2. Fleet buyers will buy the EcoLPI with its lower running costs.
3. Fleet buyers who want a 4 cylinder will default to the Hybrid Camry or normal Camry or remain with small cars.
4. Fleet buyers who want a cheap large sedan will buy the cheaper Commodore or I6 Falcon.
5. People do who want an Ecoboost will buy the better equipped and cheaper Ecoboost Mondeo
6. Tech savvy buyers who would want EcoBoost Falcon wont see the tech levels for the equipment for Falcon as adequate and instead buy imports.
7. Over 45% of Falcons are XRs, a variant Ecoboost will not be offered in.
8. Remaining EcoBoost sales will be at the substitute of I6 and EcoLPI for people who would of bought a Falcon anyway.


They would have been much better served putting the money into another vehicle line..or wagon..or diesel Falcon.

Having said that I hope they do well. EcoBoost is the way the car industry is heading. But it has to do better than how the Mondeo Ecoboost is selling so far.

I really hope EcoLPI does well it has the potential to give FG MKII a shot in the arm.

[Tors77AU]

Originally Posted by XtRmn8

- One touch lane change indicators

what is One touch lane change indication?
that to me is a blinker stick.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by martyk54

I asked my dealer about the lux pack and why its the same price as it was in series 1 FG, even though colour screen is included now as standard... he gave me the biggest 'WTF face' I'd ever seen and obviously no answer. I really despise dealing with car salesman at my dealership, no disrespect to anyone here who may be in the business. I just don't understand how one can be so disinterested in their chosen line of work.

Pretty sure you don't get SatNav in the FG luxer pack but you do with the FGII.

XR Luxury Pack - leather seat inserts, premium audio system, dual zone automatic climate control, 19" x 8" XR 5-spoke alloy wheels^, reverse camera, satellite navigation with traffic message channel#, premium sports interior appearance.

FG MK1 Luxery Pack

XR Luxury Pack - leather seat inserts, premium audio system with 7" colour screen, AM/FM radio, 6-disc in-dash CD and 8 speakers plus 150 watt amplifier and sub-woofer (total 262 watts), dual zone automatic climate control, 19" x 8" XR 5-spoke alloy wheels^ and premium sports interior appearance.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ecoboot wont be as good as a new vehicle line.

1. Private buyers will default to the I6 with more power and torque for a lesser price.
2. Fleet buyers will buy the EcoLPI with its lower running costs.
3. Fleet buyers who want a 4 cylinder will default to the Hybrid Camry or normal Camry or remain with small cars.
4. Fleet buyers who want a cheap large sedan will buy the cheaper Commodore or I6 Falcon.
5. People do who want an Ecoboost will buy the better equipped and cheaper Ecoboost Mondeo
6. Tech savvy buyers who would want EcoBoost Falcon wont see the tech levels for the equipment for Falcon as adequate and instead buy imports.
7. Over 45% of Falcons are XRs, a variant Ecoboost will not be offered in.
8. Remaining EcoBoost sales will be at the substitute of I6 and EcoLPI for people who would of bought a Falcon anyway.


They would have been much better served putting the money into another vehicle line..or wagon..or diesel Falcon.

Having said that I hope they do well. EcoBoost is the way the car industry is heading. But it has to do better than how the Mondeo Ecoboost is selling so far.

I really hope EcoLPI does well it has the potential to give FG MKII a shot in the arm.

I will bet that the ecoboost 4 outsells the ecolpi in the private sector by a significant factor as well as in the fleet sector except for taxis.

[Benjamin Smith]

Originally Posted by Tors77AU

what is One touch lane change indication?
that to me is a blinker stick.

You push the indicator slightly and it will flash 3 times, cant live without it now all fords have it now

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by flappist

I will bet that the ecoboost 4 outsells the ecolpi in the private sector by a significant factor as well as in the fleet sector except for taxis.

And I will bet that many corporate fleets stick with their Euro diesels.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by flappist

I will bet that the ecoboost 4 outsells the ecolpi in the private sector by a significant factor as well as in the fleet sector except for taxis.

I am curious why they wont offer it in XR if thats what pitave buyers get.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ecoboot wont be as good as a new vehicle line.

1. Private buyers will default to the I6 with more power and torque for a lesser price.
2. Fleet buyers will buy the EcoLPI with its lower running costs.
3. Fleet buyers who want a 4 cylinder will default to the Hybrid Camry or normal Camry or remain with small cars.
4. Fleet buyers who want a cheap large sedan will buy the cheaper Commodore or I6 Falcon.
5. People do who want an Ecoboost will buy the better equipped and cheaper Ecoboost Mondeo
6. Tech savvy buyers who would want EcoBoost Falcon wont see the tech levels for the equipment for Falcon as adequate and instead buy imports.
7. Over 45% of Falcons are XRs, a variant Ecoboost will not be offered in.
8. Remaining EcoBoost sales will be at the substitute of I6 and EcoLPI for people who would of bought a Falcon anyway.


They would have been much better served putting the money into another vehicle line..or wagon..or diesel Falcon.

Having said that I hope they do well. EcoBoost is the way the car industry is heading. But it has to do better than how the Mondeo Ecoboost is selling so far.

I really hope EcoLPI does well it has the potential to give FG MKII a shot in the arm.

Grasshopper, you've given me much to think about....

1) With the limited funds available to them, I think we can agree that SZ Territory and FG II have huge bang for bucks.
The reduction in RRP also has a corresponding reduction in Fleet pricing which makes FG II even more attractive to fleets.

3) Press line is going crazy at the moment, Ford must be receiving a lot of orders we are not aware of yet...

4) Ford has made no secret that EcoLPI is aimed squarely at fleets, it will be a success because
Ford makes the best fleet vehicles, they shouldn't be ashamed of that for one minute and it's way
past time that they go out there and reconnect with fleets, government, private, large and small.

5) Ecoboost is uncharted territory, we are only guessing at what will happen with this vehicle,
it is so different to anything Ford has tried before with Falcon but faith tells me that it's difference
will enable it to complement EcoLPI and add to sales of all falcons rather than replacing any.

6) With a change to Territory's ECU, FGII can now support four cam phasers so a lot of corporate
engines that were technically excluded now become possible, this means that Ford can go back
to the government and ask maybe $20 mil for a diesel Falcon that perhaps gets 6.5 l/100 km
I have no proof of this but being an election year, I suspect that something is in the wind...

IMO, Ford has positioned itself well with FG II and SZ Territory, both are master strokes
in enabling those vehicles to stay up with technology and be fresh enough to ask their RRPs.
That has to be welcome news to execs, instilling confidence going forward with their impending decision...

My question going forward is what will Holden's response be, new products or a discount war?

[prydey]

did i miss the memo that mentioned ecoboost would be dearer than I6?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

did i miss the memo that mentioned ecoboost would be dearer than I6?

Marin Burela in goauto:

Mr Burela promised the efficient powerplant would be an affordable option and that it would be made available on several models, including the base XT, although the first application would be for G6 and G6E models.

“Let’s get it into G-Series, that is the first step, put it next to the I6 which is even more competitive than it is today and go out there and give people the choice,” he said.

“We are going to go out there and provide it as an option to people so they can decide what they want to do.”

While he said it was far too early to start talking about prices, Mr Burela said the EcoBoost engine would not be prohibitively expensive.

“The whole strategy behind EcoBoost is to provide affordable motoring to people in this current age,” he said.

“This is not about bringing in technology that is not affordable for mums and dads of Australia.

“This is about providing an engine, fuel economy and emission reductions that they can buy into.”

IF Ford puts it into G6 and G6E first, there may be a good chance that it's a no cost option
but knowing Ford, I suspect they will want maybe $1,000-$1,500 for it...that could be a mistake...

LINK
“Look many fleets do buy large cars but there are a lot of smaller four-cylinder cars also being bought, where a larger car would be more desirable, and we will be able to satisfy that desire,” Mr Burela said.

“I think it is going to be a huge surprise and delight for the market because it will give people and incredible option, and the EcoBoost technology, being a direct-injection, turbocharged four-cylinder engine will give us the power, give us the fuel efficiency and the CO2 reductions.”

Information from Ford in the US indicates the four-cylinder, 2.0-litre engine with EcoBoost technology delivers 205kW and 379Nm of torque, approximately the equivalent for a 3.5-litre V6 engine.

He also took a swipe at Toyota’s Camry Hybrid, saying the EcoBoost Falcon would offer more accommodation and better fuel economy for a significantly lower cost.

I hope Marin Burela's words still hold true.....

[FPV GTHO]

Well at $1000-1500 it would still be technically cheaper than EcoLPI.

[prydey]

i think they should make it cheaper. there are many people that would still opt for the 6cyl just because of the stigma attached to a 4cyl large car (falcon or commodore)

i think they should also consider badging it something different. what will the 6 stand for on G6/E ecoboost?

the ecoboost line of vehicles could use the euro badging. falcon zetec/titanium etc.

i guess we'll all see soon enough.

[jpd80]

Ford have said there will be no undue mention of four cylinder or capacity,
just a small Ecoboost badge on the boot.

G6 was the new name for Fairmont and G6E for Fairmont Ghia, I don't believe the "6" was ever an engine descriptor,
people just assumed that.

I believe their strategy will be:
G6 - Ecoboost
G6E - Ecoboost
XT - Ecoboost

[dimka100]

Two reasons I can think of:
1. (the most likely reason) - engine is tuned for economy and not outright power, and Ford is likely not interested in diluting the XRs performance credentials. As for the GE series it is obviously a good choice as it will deliver better economy and most likely much improved NHVs which is important for a model designed to luxury duties.

2. (unlikely reason) - due to the lower weight of the I4, Ford might be worried the XR based cars will handle much better than the heavier I6 or even worse V8 variants ... hence not looking good marketing wise ...

Originally Posted by Brazen

I am curious why they wont offer it in XR if thats what pitave buyers get.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Two reasons I can think of:
1. (the most likely reason) - engine is tuned for economy and not outright power, and Ford is likely not interested in diluting the XRs performance credentials. As for the GE series it is obviously a good choice as it will deliver better economy and most likely much improved NHVs which is important for a model designed to luxury duties.

2. (unlikely reason) - due to the lower weight of the I4, Ford might be worried the XR based cars will handle much better than the heavier I6 or even worse V8 variants ... hence not looking good marketing wise ...

I get the feeling that the plan is to offer G6 and G6E buyers a choice of Ecoboost on top of EcoLPI...
The XT Ecoboost sounds like offering moms and dads affordable technology as well as govco fleets an I-4 alternative.
XT EcoLPi is aimed squarely at fleets, I hope Ford sell tons of them....

XR Ecoboost was never envisaged as market research showed those buyers preferred the I-6 and LPG.

[dimka100]

I think slotting the 2.7 V6 diesel into the falcon would have been the best thing to do by far ... this setup would easily beat the EcoBoost economy wise, and probably be more practical ... and considering they have spent all that money engineering it for the Territory it absolutely boggles my mind why they did not go the extra step and get it into the Falcon ... development costs wise it would probably been cheaper then EcoBoost.

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ecoboot wont be as good as a new vehicle line.

1. Private buyers will default to the I6 with more power and torque for a lesser price.
2. Fleet buyers will buy the EcoLPI with its lower running costs.
3. Fleet buyers who want a 4 cylinder will default to the Hybrid Camry or normal Camry or remain with small cars.
4. Fleet buyers who want a cheap large sedan will buy the cheaper Commodore or I6 Falcon.
5. People do who want an Ecoboost will buy the better equipped and cheaper Ecoboost Mondeo
6. Tech savvy buyers who would want EcoBoost Falcon wont see the tech levels for the equipment for Falcon as adequate and instead buy imports.
7. Over 45% of Falcons are XRs, a variant Ecoboost will not be offered in.
8. Remaining EcoBoost sales will be at the substitute of I6 and EcoLPI for people who would of bought a Falcon anyway.


They would have been much better served putting the money into another vehicle line..or wagon..or diesel Falcon.

Having said that I hope they do well. EcoBoost is the way the car industry is heading. But it has to do better than how the Mondeo Ecoboost is selling so far.

I really hope EcoLPI does well it has the potential to give FG MKII a shot in the arm.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Well at $1000-1500 it would still be technically cheaper than EcoLPI.

After the government rebate LPi is only $500 more.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dimka100

I think slotting the 2.7 V6 diesel into the falcon would have been the best thing to do by far ... this setup would easily beat the EcoBoost economy wise, and probably be more practical ... and considering they have spent all that money engineering it for the Territory it absolutely boggles my mind why they did not go the extra step and get it into the Falcon ... development costs wise it would probably been cheaper then EcoBoost.

And what becomes of I-6 sales if you offer V6 diesel in Falcon and Territory?
The name of the game is increasing sales, not replacing them...

But here's another thing, Ford used government funding to develop vehicles with V6 diesel, EcoLPi and Ecoboost I-4,
so there's nothing stopping them from asking the government for more funding particularly in an election year...

[vztrt]

I don't see the point of a diesel Falcon. The Mondeo is there to fill the Falcon gap (if people really wanted) and the Ranger is there for the utes. Falcon/FPV is gonna have 5 engine variants in a diminishing market.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by dimka100

I think slotting the 2.7 V6 diesel into the falcon would have been the best thing to do by far ... this setup would easily beat the EcoBoost economy wise, and probably be more practical ... and considering they have spent all that money engineering it for the Territory it absolutely boggles my mind why they did not go the extra step and get it into the Falcon ... development costs wise it would probably been cheaper then EcoBoost.

Why didn't Ford just use the EcoLPI in both Territory and Falcon and forget the diesel? This EcoLPI engine is cleaner I'm assuming, and surely at least as cheap to run as the diesel, probably better. Power wise the EcoLPI is in another league to both the Ecoboost and diesel engines. A much nicer, smoother engine to live with day to day. TBO I've never really been a fan of diesels...

It baffles me that Ford haven't pushed their EcoLPI engine, I don't think I've seen any advertisement at all. But hey, the marketing people there have been bloody terrible for years, why should it change now? If there's a car on the market today that puts out the power the EcoLPI does for the running price, I'd be interested to know what it is.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I don't see the point of a diesel Falcon. The Mondeo is there to fill the Falcon gap (if people really wanted) and the Ranger is there for the utes. Falcon/FPV is gonna have 5 engine variants in a diminishing market.

At just 329 sales last month, Mondeo isn't a Falcon <anything> replacement ....

Originally Posted by martyk54

Why didn't Ford just use the EcoLPI in both Territory and Falcon and forget the diesel?

Diesel Territory sales are running at around 80%, a real customers want it, have done so for a long time..
Also there's less room for an LPG tank in Territory and deleting the spare is unacceptable on an SUV.

It baffles me that Ford haven't pushed their EcoLPI engine, I don't think I've seen any advertisement at all. But hey, the marketing people there have been bloody terrible for years, why should it change now? If there's a car on the market today that puts out the power the EcoLPI does for the running price, I'd be interested to know what it is.

EcoLPI is not big with private buyers, new LPG vehicles never have been. People will take cash from
the government to convert existing cars to LPG but dead set refuse to go out and buy a new LPG vehicle.
Good luck changing that opinion.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Why didn't Ford just use the EcoLPI in both Territory and Falcon and forget the diesel? This EcoLPI engine is cleaner I'm assuming, and surely at least as cheap to run as the diesel, probably better. Power wise the EcoLPI is in another league to both the Ecoboost and diesel engines. A much nicer, smoother engine to live with day to day. TBO I've never really been a fan of diesels...

Seeing as the SUV market is 50% diesel you would think it was a smarter choice then trying to change public perception. ATM the terri is selling 70% diesels so their choice would be justified.

Wish Gorman didn't can the project back when he was the president.