VP commos they r quickish!?!? y? - Page 5

mcflux · 22-05-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xd5.8l

A manual commonwhore you might be able to stir to a 15.5 quarter, but the auto forget it. 1st, 2nd, 3rd pull alright to 3000rpm, past this they die in the (or anything over 120kmh).

Get a supercharged VS CALAIS and I'll champion you till the cows come home. Suprised me with responsivness for an auto and is match (if not quicker) then most new auto V8's.

Responsive auto?!?

If the VS auto (behind the blown Ecotec) is anything like the VYII auto, it's slurry as!

But yes, I love the "oomph" feel the blown 3.8 has :P

new2ford · 22-05-2006, 11:36 PM

I've been studiously ignoring this thread because I used to own a VP before Ford came to the rescue. Yes they go fast but they sure don't stop so good. Crash testing also showed a serious safety issue (particularly seat belts I think). Apparently the driver has a nearly 100% chance of dying in a head-on collision. So if anyone wants to see how quick it goes make sure there's a few km of empty space in front of the car. Dynamics and interior also pretty crummy.

5L · 23-05-2006, 03:54 AM

i like to stir the holden guys up, 90% of the people i know would rather a commodore that appeal to a younger crowd, the go fairly fast, the do burnouts, and most of them have been thrashed by the p plater they brought it off. some of my mates have got some of the nicest vn-vp's i have seen, and on weekends it is normally there cars that i go cruising in, because they have bodykits, big mags, personalised number plates and in the looks department at the moment as my car is stock looking i would prefer to be in theres to. but i think that if the comparison was done to how well both cars were put together i would have to pick the ford.

stevz · 23-05-2006, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Crash testing also showed a serious safety issue (particularly seat belts I think). Apparently the driver has a nearly 100% chance of dying in a head-on collision. So if anyone wants to see how quick it goes make sure there's a few km of empty space in front of the car.

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread either but I feel I must.
That is the most unsubstantiated load of garbage I have ever read. If you're going to post ill informed tripe like this then at least provide proof from a reliable source.
If what you're saying was the case, the car wouldn't have passed ADR's and would never have been allowed to hit the market.

RG · 23-05-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread either but I feel I must.
That is the most unsubstantiated load of garbage I have ever read. If you're going to post ill informed tripe like this then at least provide proof from a reliable source.
If what you're saying was the case, the car wouldn't have passed ADR's and would never have been allowed to hit the market.

Now that is ill informed tripe. Think original Hyundai Excel, the new Holden Barina and remember that the VP came out 15 years ago when there wasn't such a huge emphasis on safety.

Edit - Nice way to make your first post. Welcome to the forums.

Full Spectrum · 23-05-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And if you dare take it on in a FORD you had better bring plenty of HEAD GASKETS

I like that, thats funny

But true

.
But why is it that they do head gaskets, My brother did 2 and my cousin just done one not long ago, My cousins might be explained more by his start and go attitude but my brother is just like me warm the car up and drive it easy till operating temp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

I've been studiously ignoring this thread because I used to own a VP before Ford came to the rescue. Yes they go fast but they sure don't stop so good. Crash testing also showed a serious safety issue (particularly seat belts I think). Apparently the driver has a nearly 100% chance of dying in a head-on collision. So if anyone wants to see how quick it goes make sure there's a few km of empty space in front of the car. Dynamics and interior also pretty crummy.

Come-on lets not go onto brakes please

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb5speed

i like to stir the holden guys up, 90% of the people i know would rather a commodore that appeal to a younger crowd, the go fairly fast, the do burnouts, and most of them have been thrashed by the p plater they brought it off. some of my mates have got some of the nicest vn-vp's i have seen, and on weekends it is normally there cars that i go cruising in, because they have bodykits, big mags, personalised number plates and in the looks department at the moment as my car is stock looking i would prefer to be in theres to. but i think that if the comparison was done to how well both cars were put together i would have to pick the ford.

Thats maybe where I'm lucky, The guy i bought it off bought it from a P plater who wanted a top of the range car. He was insulted his parents bought him a base model car. So they sold it to my brothers mate, He wasn't a thrasher of cars just used it plenty and used it hard for towing and going away etc. It must have been a very good car for them as they had a VS Statesman V8 but when they went away they used the VP. He told me it was superb on fuel. Till they had fuel leaking from the fuel rails and done 2 injectors and changed the petrol tank, Now it gets real shocking fuel economy which I'm trying to fix, Because at a time like this 70litres going in 260km is just down right shocking.

new2ford · 23-05-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread either but I feel I must. That is the most unsubstantiated load of garbage I have ever read. If you're going to post ill informed tripe like this then at least provide proof from a reliable source. If what you're saying was the case, the car wouldn't have passed ADR's and would never have been allowed to hit the market.

Well its not unsubstantiated. NCAP crashtests 1 out of 4 stars - 93% chance of life-threatening injuries. No webbing grabbers on the front seatbelts - they stretched like rubber bands in a crash. As low as 56kph you would be dead. Holden has never recalled these cars to fix that (e.g. by retrofitting with the seatbelts from the VR). And new cars do get let out on the roads with poor safety ratings, like the current Barina for example. This is one of the problems with our vehicle certification system.

And as I said I owned a VP. I know how well they don't stop.

But yes, back to the thread, they do go.

vztrt · 23-05-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I like that, thats funny

But true

.
But why is it that they do head gaskets

It was a cooling problem cause it's harder to cool an I6 and most head gaskets blew at the back where the car struggles to keep the coolant flowing , I believe they fixed the problem with the AU.

BENT_8 · 23-05-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I like that, thats funny

But true

.
But why is it that they do head gaskets

I believe the problem is that alloy has different heat an cooling charachteristics to Iron, and so when the head expands and shrinks it streatches the head bolts and causes the head to warp which in turn creates a leak.

Full Spectrum · 23-05-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

It was a cooling problem cause it's harder to cool an I6 and most head gaskets blew at the back where the car struggles to keep the coolant flowing , I believe they fixed the problem with the AU.

I have seen some older falcons over heated before but nothing past EF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I believe the problem is that alloy has different heat an cooling charachteristics to Iron, and so when the head expands and shrinks it streatches the head bolts and causes the head to warp which in turn creates a leak.

We thought we warped the head on the old VB

So it was heat not cold that made them pop. I was thinking that many people might have just jumped in and drove off when it's cold.

UNR8D · 24-05-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

Dude you crack me up. What in that is informative? Do some homework, your NL Fairlane weighs some 1680kg from the factory. Your signature states that you've got a "98 NL Fairlane Ghia I6:- billet cam, chiptorque chip, head port/polish, pacemaker extractors, full lukey system, 3.89LSD, shiftkitted auto fully rebuilt, 18' Advanti rims, Superlow springs... 147.5RWKW/197.8RWHP" and you compare it to a 15 yr old VP on the dark side of 300,000ks thats been neglected and unmodified. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to work out that you're gonna win that hey. What kind of comparison is that? Seriously?

you mean the same 300,000km vp rocket ship that beats v8's.... right yea fair is fair you want a race? hell you can use a L67 with 10psi pully for all i care ill still run you..., still stand by the fact they sound asmatic and crap especialy when exhausted, i have DRIVEN plenty of the things well over a hundred or so and often for a week or so, so yea my oppinions are based on DRIVING the things, wouldnt own one for many many reasons but the build quality and boat anchor V6 are 2 of the main reasons.

Quote:

DO the simple maths, your 147.5rwkw or say roughly 185kw at the fly wheel, which gives you a power to weight of about 109kw per tonne.

VP Commodore puts out 127kw and weighs just on 1300kgs. which is about 97kw per tonne. From the factory a stock VP sedan is good for an 8 sec 0-100 and a 15.5 sec quarter mile.

Now i dont know about you but if i was about to bet money based on numbers badges aside, i'd be putting my money on the extra 58kw!

Another was to look at it is that a BA Mk 2 XR6 turbo is only 55kw up on you, about the same age difference, and i'm tipping you would be crying unfair match up if you got beaten by one of those! What do you expect?

About 6 cars ago i had a mint condition VN manual sedan, that was lightly modified, to this day still has under 180,000ks which WAS good for a high 14 sec quarter and would still beat my BA XR off from the lights as well as murder it for fuel economy!

off they line they are quick yes, they develop torque in the VN's right off idle till 3800rpm then have nothing and sound like a strangled cat, the 185kw is closer to 195-200 if u work it correctly allowing for auto drivetrain loss refering to my car, yes i have been beaten by XRT's i have also had a few runs where their was nothing in it, at willow i got done by .3 of a sec last time and had a blown headgasket.....

the V6's feel quick as they are harsh/and unrefined compared to the smooth power delivery of the I6 fact is I6 is better balanced hance the smoother feel what feel and what is layed down in numbers is completely different story, as for a STOCK v6 auto ever running a mid 15 PFFT right never EVER have i seen one at willow run that and i have been when plenty have raced mostly do 16.2-16.4 so get your own facts straight SLICKHOLDEN.

over it

UNR8D · 24-05-2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I have seen some older falcons over heated before but nothing past EF.

We thought we warped the head on the old VB

So it was heat not cold that made them pop. I was thinking that many people might have just jumped in and drove off when it's cold.

I6's tend to have less cooling at the rear of the engine as well compared to the more compact but spread out V configuration this also has an effect on uneven cooling and over time the different temps heat/cool at different times and cause the head to warp slightly then bang...headgasket time, there are other factors that have already been mentioned but this is after talking to a head reconditioner.

xd5.8l · 24-05-2006, 01:29 AM

(i6) Engine is on a slant, pressed up against the firewall so you get a build up of radiant heat in this region. It's a reciepe for disaster especialy when you have a hot running engine to begin with.

Full Spectrum · 24-05-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNR8D

you mean the same 300,000km vp rocket ship that beats v8's.... right yea fair is fair you want a race? hell you can use a L67 with 10psi pully for all i care ill still run you..., still stand by the fact they sound asmatic and crap especialy when exhausted, i have DRIVEN plenty of the things well over a hundred or so and often for a week or so, so yea my oppinions are based on DRIVING the things, wouldnt own one for many many reasons but the build quality and boat anchor V6 are 2 of the main reasons.

off they line they are quick yes, they develop torque in the VN's right off idle till 3800rpm then have nothing and sound like a strangled cat, the 185kw is closer to 195-200 if u work it correctly allowing for auto drivetrain loss refering to my car, yes i have been beaten by XRT's i have also had a few runs where their was nothing in it, at willow i got done by .3 of a sec last time and had a blown headgasket.....

the V6's feel quick as they are harsh/and unrefined compared to the smooth power delivery of the I6 fact is I6 is better balanced hance the smoother feel what feel and what is layed down in numbers is completely different story, as for a STOCK v6 auto ever running a mid 15 PFFT right never EVER have i seen one at willow run that and i have been when plenty have raced mostly do 16.2-16.4 so get your own facts straight SLICKHOLDEN.

over it

First of all you have about 5 quotes in 1 there and i don't remember saying half the things there. Actally when i see it i never said a thing in that quote.

See i could really change your mind on these cars.
The VN did run out of puff because it was so lightning off the mark, But not as much as you claim. Which is why after a slightly slower start the VP reals them in and beats them and will pull away in the high speeds.
If i could get you to here the sound of my car you wouldn't be able to say it's a rattle snake at all.
Driving a few doesn't make you a judge of the whole VN-VP series. My in-fact doesn't rattle or slap it's cans or boat anchor itself.
You tell me how to post sounds in here and I'll show you.
Just because i meet some nob head that drives a ford doesn't mean all of them are nob heads get it?.

Have you seen all these tracks around the country that have the 1/4's? Have you seen all the VN's VP's do the runs in all states?, No then dont say never ever never ever then.

If i had a L67 with blower kit i would take you in a VS Calais;).
I'll pop in a couple of goodies like yourself maybe a 3.9 LSD Slap a cam chip package some headers nice exhaust system. Theres one going cheap i have been thinking of buying it

.

BENT_8 · 24-05-2006, 11:33 AM

Thew most accurate part of this whole thread is the bit at the start where someone said "if you throw X amount of dollars on a windsor it will beat any VP.
Gee what a feeling knowing i have to change my factory V8 with big dollars just to beat a V6 commodore!
I wonder what would happen if the same X amount of dollars was thrown into a V6?
I bet it wouldn't rattle then, and belt the windsor proberbly too.

Full Spectrum · 24-05-2006, 01:44 PM

I wish i had some $$$$:P Some guy over in the states has the fastest Buick V6 doing 10 or sub 10's i think.
I just from my phone recorded my car going on the freeway in 2nd i would love to get it on but it always says invalid file

I had the phone on the dash above the vents.
I made sure it held 2nd going on the bend didn't want it to drop back to 1st @ 30kp/h was low in the rev range but picked up right through to 5000rpm pretty easy with no asthma pump required

. Pulling at a nice click to much more then a 1st gear car.

greenfoam · 24-05-2006, 02:20 PM

Hello, I can't be bothered to read all this thread but someone said it was about VN V6 auto's not being able to go under 16 on the 1/4 mile. Mine runs 15.5 on a proven accurate g-tech with the stock spark advance but that was with a cold air intake and a smoothed throttle body wich probably is worth a couple tenths. Also the throttle body is modified to open fully (every VN varies and most of the are missing about 20% throttle but the odd one opens all the way from the factory it's nromally enough to get you from 16.1 to well into the 15's) I've done that time every single time I've tried (more than 20 times) Everything else was factory stock, runs 15.37 with more spark, there's nothing unusual about that so long as the VN is healthy and everythig is working well. My VN has 280,000 ks on the original motor.

On the street the fastest non turbo modern Ford I've found was a BA XR6 which from a rolling start (he went first) and I *just* gained on him about 5 meters up to 120 but would have been quiker off the line, I had no passengers and he had one, so probably dead even with just the driver. Where I work I'm good freinds with a couple of guys that drive a grandpa spec EA s pack manual, and a EF auto, my VN was quicker than both of those cars, as proven every night leaving work

. If you have a g-tech and want to compare 0-60 mph times the best time in the VN was 6.95 with the average about 7.15.

Now it's true that I've never tested another stock VN that is that quick, most of them are in the 7.3-7.5 0-60 mph range. The stock V8's do 0-60 inbtween 6.8 and low 7's but flat 6's or 5.9 with another 10 degrees spark advance down low and an extra 5 or 6 through the rest of the range. Expect 14.5 on the 1/4 mile with a strong tune and stock exhaust on the 5 liter VN executive auto

P.S with an hours work I could make any VN V6 executive or berlina in the country that isn't stuffed run a 15, with no more tools than a file and a screwdriver

5L · 24-05-2006, 05:42 PM

g-tech...pffft get it on an actual drag strip and get times done. and for all this raving and ranting about how good the vn's and vp's are i believe that this a ford forum how bout u go to the holden forum and continue with your babbling. you can join the rest of the bogans in the nation with talking about how there standing vn beat a 10 second wrx and how they gave a lambo a run up to 300km. go weld you diff and do some fully sick twinnies ulleh

stevz · 24-05-2006, 06:09 PM

The rattling noise heard in buick V6's is in most cases caused by the rubber in the harmonic balancer deteriorating and causing metal to metal contact.
Change the harmonic balancer which is a $150 part and bingo, no more rattles.
While these engines may not be of the most advanced design, they are tough, long lasting, torquey, good on fuel and generally smooth in everyday driving.
While they do have their shortcomings, I believe most of these have been heavily exagerrated by some one eyed people.

Full Spectrum · 24-05-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb5speed

g-tech...pffft get it on an actual drag strip and get times done. and for all this raving and ranting about how good the vn's and vp's are i believe that this a ford forum how bout u go to the holden forum and continue with your babbling. you can join the rest of the bogans in the nation with talking about how there standing vn beat a 10 second wrx and how they gave a lambo a run up to 300km. go weld you diff and do some fully sick twinnies ulleh

Thats what you get when you bring up another make on a single make forum :party3:
Alot of people on this forum use G-Tech systems.
10sec WRX, Lambo to 300km?? Didnt see that :yeees:

Ryan · 24-05-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb5speed

g-tech...pffft get it on an actual drag strip and get times done. and for all this raving and ranting about how good the vn's and vp's are i believe that this a ford forum how bout u go to the holden forum and continue with your babbling. you can join the rest of the bogans in the nation with talking about how there standing vn beat a 10 second wrx and how they gave a lambo a run up to 300km. go weld you diff and do some fully sick twinnies ulleh

Yeah I agree, but I must say, 10 Second WRXs and Lambos? I dont think the most bogan of bogans exaggerate that much. :hihi:

oneredED · 24-05-2006, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNR8ED

VP is now 15 yo, they DONT do mid 15's esp when most have done 300,000+ they rattle like the pistons are coke can's and i have NEVER heard a V6 sound good with an exhaust

Yes they do. Alot of people out there cant drive to save themselves. I have driven my brothers car, it has less mid range but more top end than my falcon, granted mine isnt wonderful, but with a 2.8 60' time, 40-degree ambient temp, and a beginner driver he ran 15.9. Oh, and it's sounds better than *almost* every I6 exhausted e-series i've heard. (I was informed that my brothers car has done close to 360,000km now, original motor, i made a mistake)

Dont get me wrong though, I generally hate the sound of a the buick V6 becuase most sound so bad, and I don't like commodores in general, but there not THAT bad. Handing at 180-plus however is shocking (wanders, and yet it's twitchy!), and the main reason i would never have one.

EDIT: I have a video of my brothers first run, 16.05, if you want to hear the exhaust, gotta find it.

oneredED · 24-05-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

The rattling noise heard in buick V6's is in most cases caused by the rubber in the harmonic balancer deteriorating and causing metal to metal contact.
Change the harmonic balancer which is a $150 part and bingo, no more rattles.
While these engines may not be of the most advanced design, they are tough, long lasting, torquey, good on fuel and generally smooth in everyday driving.
While they do have their shortcomings, I believe most of these have been heavily exagerrated by some one eyed people.

Nice post, I agree 100%.

BENT_8 · 24-05-2006, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb5speed

g-tech...pffft get it on an actual drag strip and get times done. and for all this raving and ranting about how good the vn's and vp's are i believe that this a ford forum how bout u go to the holden forum and continue with your babbling. you can join the rest of the bogans in the nation with talking about how there standing vn beat a 10 second wrx and how they gave a lambo a run up to 300km. go weld you diff and do some fully sick twinnies ulleh

Well for starters mate i am a CAR ENTHUSIAST and am happy to talk to people about a variety of manufacturers. I have good enough vision to see good and bad in all.
Whilst i currently drive a Ford it is not the reason i use this site, After spending the last 20 yrs copping crap from Holden supporters about how Fords couldn't win a thing I choose to express my thoughts through a Ford site as i thought we were all adults here and can appreciate competitors.
Unfortunately some can't
If you have a problem with this thread why bother reading or posting?
I'm sure there's pleanty of other riveting topic's for you

BENT_8 · 24-05-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneredED

Handing at 180-plus however is shocking (wanders, and yet it's twitchy!), and the main reason i would never have one.

Yeah well E-series dont have to worry about that cos they dont go any faster :thebirds:

Unless you have an option 20 like me

:

oneredED · 24-05-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Yeah well E-series dont have to worry about that cos they dont go any faster

Nope, I've never driven a standard EF XR6 to 230kmh,or an ED Gli to ~220...

But if I had, I would have loved not having a speed limiter like most e-series owners :P

Full Spectrum · 24-05-2006, 07:19 PM

I still don't know how to post WAV sounds on here, Today i gave the mobile a go in the car and toped 5000rpm in 2nd. Had the mobile stuck on the dash vents down the freeway, But i can't seem to post it on here? It's very small not the best quality sound but it's pretty coming from a mobile phone.

Full Spectrum · 24-05-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneredED

Nope, I've never driven a standard EF XR6 to 230kmh,or an ED Gli to ~220...

But if I had, I would have loved not having a speed limiter like most e-series owners :P

Like most holden commodore you get into the 200's you can't believe the handling and smoothness that comes, They call it like a coan of silence the wind dies the car just hit smoothness from no-where, That was motors words a couple of years ago.

Doctor Sodways · 24-05-2006, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Well for starters mate i am a CAR ENTHUSIAST and am happy to talk to people about a variety of manufacturers. I have good enough vision to see good and bad in all.
Whilst i currently drive a Ford it is not the reason i use this site, After spending the last 20 yrs copping crap from Holden supporters about how Fords couldn't win a thing I choose to express my thoughts through a Ford site as i thought we were all adults here and can appreciate competitors.
Unfortunately some can't
If you have a problem with this thread why bother reading or posting?
I'm sure there's pleanty of other riveting topic's for you

here here, agreed

UNR8D · 24-05-2006, 07:42 PM

ok my previous statements may be harsh but im sorry i still stand by them, you ever done 200k's in a commodore??? that the VX SS i did was not wanting to stop after and the VX felt very touchy at that speed i would HATE to be in a VN/VP at the speed :S

everything from ED onwards except XR manuals were limited to 180, or like me the chip has been removed but still not a good idea for 200+km/h cruising it took 1.5k of suspention mods to mine to make it feel stable i dont see how a vn on 185/65/14' rims tyres doing 200 km/h is going to feel stable or one even on 205/60/15's.... nothing does except maybe a clio sport...

5.0L commos sound hot i will admit that and the 5.7L stroker aussie v8 was sensational with a set of decent pipes but the V6 sounds like a strangled cat at high rpm and nothing.... nothing will change the fact its a 60's buick cut down v8 they were forced to use at short notice and had the NVH of a jackhammer.