"If you're not speeding, you have nothing to worry about..."

[GREGL]

Maybe if precious WALKED to school and wasn't dropped off by mommy or daddy , and mommy or daddy were not so lazy that they have to illegally park close to the gates as possible the problem of kids getting run over might not be as big a issue .
7 a.m few parents are dropping the kids off , it's at peak 8-9 when all the congestion and double parking starts and that's when the dramas occur .

[prydey]

so, how many children do you have? and how close do you live to your school?

[hedgehobb]

Originally Posted by prydey

i work on a street that has a very popular cafe, so has parked cars down both sides of the road with barely enough room for 2 cars to pass between them, with cars pulling in and out of the carpark as well, and yet drivers still smash through there at 50-60km/h!!

So a adequate street you are talking about. Like, say, everywhere? and now going 50km/h is considered smashing. Ok.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by hedgehobb

So a adequate street you are talking about. Like, say, everywhere? and now going 50km/h is considered smashing. Ok.

and therein lies the problem. too many people only think about what speed they should be allowed to do but don't give a thought to potential hazards.

i drive it every day. on nights, you can cruise through relatively easy, although it can still be busy. on days and arvos, i'd be lucky to crack 30 most days, and thats my choice.

a workmate was knocked off his motorbike there by a car pulling out. visibility can be quite restricted on busy days (which is pretty much every day) due to the amount of parked cars, cars entering and exiting carparks, and foot traffic, but sure, the law says you can do your 50 so just blindly go ahead and do your 50

[hedgehobb]

Originally Posted by prydey

visibility can be quite restricted on busy days (which is pretty much every day) due to the amount of parked cars

Which are not on the road.

cars entering and exiting carparks

Which is normal.

and foot traffic

Again, which are not on the road.

You make the street sound like a scene out of Mad Max.

edit: or maybe you Adeladians just suck at driving... oh yeah, I went there.

[prydey]

i would rather be over cautious than drive with tunnel vision.

clearly in your perfect world, people don't suddenly step out from between 2 cars, or a car door open from someone too busy talking on a phone, or being distracted, or a child who chases after a dropped coin from someone etc etc etc.

it really does seem anyone can get a licence these days if those simple basics need to be explained!!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by hedgehobb

Which are not on the road.

Which is normal.

Again, which are not on the road.

You make the street sound like a scene out of Mad Max.

edit: or maybe you Adeladians just suck at driving... oh yeah, I went there.

I think the point that Prydey is trying to point out is that there is a LOT of pedestrian traffic in that area, which is what the thread is about (school zones and pedestrians) meaning that anyone driving along that street not only has to watch for traffic at car parks they also have to watch out for people walking out between cars.

In which case 50-60kmh along there would be downright stupid.

[jpd80]

Does anyone know about the Vic "Wipe off five" campaign?
I saw something briefly on the news last night...

That would almost go down as sabotaging income income from speeding infringe nets..


Also when those government safety types talk about 5 kph over the speed limit
doubling the risk of having a car crash, they are talikng about the relative risk going
from around 1% to 2%, here's an excerpt from the RTA research on it:



I think we need to nail these clown at every chance for misrepresenting the case.
It's pretty clear that road fatalaties occur when speeding is well above the posted limit..

[PepeLePew]

Wow I was quite surprised reading this thread.

Most of us have kids. And I'd reckon most parents have the sense to drive with caution around schools at ANY time. Kids just don't have genetically programmed road sense unfortunately. Wait until your own child has a near miss with a motorist near those hours or not, plus or minus the posted speed, and watch the change in your mental tide (to be clear this about the thread in general not a specific response to any above post).

Speed signs, school zones, school zone times, school zone limits. LAW. A lot of use of the word speeding, not enough of the word LAW. Fact...its the law. Obey it and everybody is good. Doesn't matter whether we agree or disagree. Love it or hate it. Late for work or not. School zones are one of those areas I'd never argue against ANYTHING posted. Some people need to be told to exercise the caution many of us take for granted.

[jpd80]

What I find stupid is that most schools are positioned near or on main roads where the volume of daily traffic is high.
First and foremost, those decisions were about positioning schools near public transport like buses with no thought
of ever diverting a bus route down a side street to reduce congestion and danger on a main road.

If we're really honest about kids and cars, 40 kph is still too fast around kids running out from behind parked cars,
separation is the only real answer to eliminating the danger

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GREGL

Maybe if precious WALKED to school and wasn't dropped off by mommy or daddy , and mommy or daddy were not so lazy that they have to illegally park close to the gates as possible the problem of kids getting run over might not be as big a issue .
7 a.m few parents are dropping the kids off , it's at peak 8-9 when all the congestion and double parking starts and that's when the dramas occur .

The only reason my parents dropped me off to school is that they know if they didn't I wouldn't turn up lol.

[irish2]

When I went to school the main road fronting it was 80km/h. There were dead ***** who would play chicken with cars, sometimes with unfortunate results. A school zone in the country is 80km/h but in the city it is 40km/h all day. Does that mean country kids are twice as effective at judging speed?

A recent article on the speed limit being lowered in capital cities to 40km/h cited that people walked out in front of cars doing 60km/h because when they went to school the cars did 40km/h, and they weren't used to the higher speed.

[krzysiek]

Did not read the whole thread (4 pages) but this exact same thing happened to me before.

Except, in my case, it was a little worse in terms of not knowing who was actually speeding.

It was a 4 lane road, 2 in each direction. The photo showed my car travelling down the road on the right hand land and it showed another car travelling up the road on their right hand lane.

My rear end of the car was literally level with the front of the car heading up the road. Bad timing or what?

Anyway, spotting out mobile cameras is easy and luckily I remembered having spotted the camera that day so I knew I wasn't speeding in the photo.

I went down to the city where they handle the speeding tickets, spoke to an officer and showed him the photo. Told him I was aware the camera was there and purposely slowed down and that it was not me speeding.

I got a letter of apology in the mail the next week or so and the fine obviously revoked. I still have the letter somewhere, just in case they try and pull a "we don't make mistakes" on me in the future.

The funny thing is, I wonder if they sent the other guy a ticket as well as me and just hoped we both paid up!

[Morexbs]

Originally Posted by krzysiek

The funny thing is, I wonder if they sent the other guy a ticket as well as me and just hoped we both paid up!

Of course they would have,because they rely on people just bending over and paying up.If anyone actually wrote an objection and/or went to court they would be quite surprised at how many fines get thrown out.If you write enough letters you can get out of just about anything.

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by prydey

...the law says you can do your 50 so just blindly go ahead and do your 50

But all the govco propaganda says that if you do the speed limit you have nothing to worry about.
The TAC "wipe off 5" campaign here in Vic even highlights the fact that going from 65km/h back to 60km/h will make it safer for all. So now what people to think if they are observing the number on the sign?
"I'm OK, I'm doing what they want me too"................

[MAD]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Wow I was quite surprised reading this thread.

Most of us have kids. And I'd reckon most parents have the sense to drive with caution around schools at ANY time. Kids just don't have genetically programmed road sense unfortunately. Wait until your own child has a near miss with a motorist near those hours or not, plus or minus the posted speed, and watch the change in your mental tide (to be clear this about the thread in general not a specific response to any above post).

Speed signs, school zones, school zone times, school zone limits. LAW. A lot of use of the word speeding, not enough of the word LAW. Fact...its the law. Obey it and everybody is good. Doesn't matter whether we agree or disagree. Love it or hate it. Late for work or not. School zones are one of those areas I'd never argue against ANYTHING posted. Some people need to be told to exercise the caution many of us take for granted.

It was also once law that aboriginal people weren't even classed as people, they were seen by our gov as fauna. Just because it's law doesn't mean it's automatically right.

[Stazza_Brendan]

I dont even live in Rocky but i know the Speed camera is there about 80% of the time. Driving through Rocky from the south side you wonder why that area goes back to 60.

[hedgehobb]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I think the point that Prydey is trying to point out is that there is a LOT of pedestrian traffic in that area

So? "Oh no! A pedestrian is on THE SIDEWALK!!! FOR GOD SAKE SLOW DOWN TOO what I dunno maybe 7km/h? You do know that the side walk and place where cars drive are separated.

which is what the thread is about (school zones and pedestrians)

Actually, thread is about Govco double dipping motorist and motorists bending over and saying: "Thank you Sir! May I have another... Thank y..." which, inevitably, *shows a distinct lack of moral and character on the Govco behalf.

edit: *this is pure speculation that the Govco are actually doing this (two cars in one pic, both get sent speeding fines etc) (apparently the radar is perfect, no mistakes etc)

meaning that anyone driving along that street not only has to watch for traffic at car parks they also have to watch out for people walking out between cars.

In which case 50-60kmh along there would be downright stupid.

Again with the "Mad Max" speed of doing 50km/h.

You do realise why this is happening? (Completely off topic but some leeway here pls) Lack of war. Simple. (Ha har! Some of you were guessing I was going to blame feminizm) (note the z haha)

But I digress, we haven't had a good war for so long now, we simply have just turned into a bunch of pandering pussies. School zones? Not heard of back in the eighties. Again leeway with an eg.

I was doing my driving license exam. About 92. No school zones. The examiner had me drive by a high school at finish time. The instructor told me after I should had slow down, but I passed (first go). I thought too myself: "So if I had slowed down, the kids head who would have gotten squished would be still squished, but a bit more slower?"

[prydey]

perhaps back in the 80's people were a bit less self absorbed and self obsessed than they are now, and didn't need signs up everywhere telling them common sense infomation.

i hope for your sake that you never hit a pedestrian, especially a child, whilst driving your car. i wouldn't wish that on anyone, but clearly you are someone who can't fathom that accidents do happen, and don't allow for the unforeseen.

[Road Games]

Here is one of mine



Notice the HG coming up behind with 80LER pates he had just came out of First ave rather quickly and was accelerating and approx 5sec's later passed me well over the speedlimit !!

I took it into the local cop shop at the time and showed them the pic.
I explained i had seen the van there all morning and i had passed it a number of times (which i had as i was a food courier) and the other car was still accelerating when i got flashed ...

Nothing was done about it and i gave up because the police are always right..

It was 15 yrs ago but still two cars in the shot and i wasn't the one speeding, i was bang on 60 or maybe a bit below yet i got the fine and from memory it took around 4 week's to get posted to me as well ?

I have to admit i have gotten away with it more times than i have recieved fines, but it felt so weird knowing when you havn't done anything wrong that you can still lose your livelihood (courier) because of a machine's mistake ...

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Something I found interesting is out my way they used to put speed camera cars on Melbourne-Lancefield road fairly regularly, every morning there would be one of the bastards hiding around the dark around 6AM somewhere along the 40km stretch.

Recently they've disappeared over the last month or two.

Turns out the cars where getting smashed up and operators threatened by a group of people, they haven't been back since.... It was in the local paper.

Our councilor even had a massive fight with the big wigs at VicRoads about it, because they used to love putting that camera on our main highway, but we didn't see any of the money.

They just seem to be normal people rather than police down here in Victoria.

Their base or maintenance workshop is actually around the corner from my work too in Tullamarine.

All mobile speed cameras in Victoria are operated by a private company called Serco. They are not operated by police or sworn law enforcement officers.

Of all revenue gained by the cameras, Serco gets 80%, the government gets 20%, the police force gets nothing.

I was told this by a cop about 3 years ago, but I have been unable to verify the percentages, only that it is Serco (and previously Redflex) that are the contractors.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by hedgehobb

So? "Oh no! A pedestrian is on THE SIDEWALK!!! FOR GOD SAKE SLOW DOWN TOO what I dunno maybe 7km/h? You do know that the side walk and place where cars drive are separated.

Sidewalk ?? since when did we have these in Australia. I thought we had footpaths.

Perhaps I should have explained it a little better and said that it has been knows for pedestrians to actually step off the footpath and actually cross the road. Stepping between cars into the traffic.

Originally Posted by hedgehobb

Again with the "Mad Max" speed of doing 50km/h.

IF the street is narrow, as in not a major arterial rd, with cars parked along both sides then 50 could be too fast during the times that people are wandering about.

I think you need to get out more. There a number of busy mains streets in small towns that I drive through every day where if you drive faster than 30kmh you WILL hit someone or something.

Originally Posted by hedgehobb

School zones? Not heard of back in the eighties.

Oh ?. I passed my test in 1964 and distinctly remember school crossings in Adel with 25mph signs and flashing lights.

[Kable72]

Originally Posted by prydey

wrong. schools can be used 7 days a week. schools can actually encourage students and families to use the grounds on weekends as the extra presence helps deter criminal activity.

regardless, a school zone is normally less than a km long. slowing 20km/h for a km is hardly going to hinder anybody.

That's ********. I nearly got expelled for using the school grounds to play footy with some friends on a weekend. Got the police involved and nearly got charged for trespassing on government property. It wasn't until my Mum kicked up a stink with our local parliament representative that the charges were dropped.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

There a number of busy mains streets in small towns that I drive through every day where if you drive faster than 30kmh you WILL hit someone or something.

they built you a bypass to avoid the locals...

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Oh ?. I passed my test in 1964 and distinctly remember school crossings in Adel with 25mph signs and flashing lights.

Yep - when I was going to school in Adelaide in the 70s and 80s the yellow flashing lights had changed to 25km/h, and where there was no dedicated crossing most schools had a "Safety Sally" in the middle of the road at either end of the school zone.

Safety Sal was a painted wooden cutout of a young girl holding a sign. The side of the sign facing you when you were entering the school zone said "25 please", and the other side of the sign which you saw when you were leaving the school zone said "Thank You".

I don't think they are used any more - not Safety Sally, I mean "please" and "thank you".

[steve.zissou]

Ok, here are some hard academic facts for GOVCO and their mindless supporters that use childrens lives as a way to control and raise tax revenue (obviously this research wasn't a bodgy construct of the current state govts - who amazingly get the exact results from their research these days that justifies what they are doing):

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation"

from:
http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/speed/vol-1.html
Results of Solomon (1964, p 16)




as you can see,
1) the lowest accident rates are for drivers going almost 10mph over the speed limit - not at the speed limit. wait - how could this be - oh thats right the govt doesn't tell the truth.

2)the safest speed is just over 65 mph during daylight hours - how could this be, driving faster causes more accident right ?

3) people going 10mph slower than the limit are more dangerous than those going 10mph over the limit!!!!!

I have printed this out and next time i get pulled over I will prove that by exceeding the speed limit I am actually less likely to have an accident.

BTW, this means that that all this propaganda about just 5km/h over is actually killing more people - think about it.

[Alan D Segal]

I'm not trying to be overly argumentative or defend the government here as I think there are some problems with speed enforcement in its current forms too, but if the tables above are from research done in 1964 that makes them almost 50 years old, and I'd say that crash rates etc. would probably have changed to some extent since then - just like the vehicles and the roads and the drivers and the amount of traffic for sure - it is very much a different world in a lot of ways IMHO.

[xtremerus]

The slower the cars are in heavy pedestrian areas, the greater the chance a pedestrian will walk/run out in front of cars.
They think that they can beat the car to get across the road. Self-fulfilling prophecy of a potential accident, if you are too slow.
Its the PEDESTRIANS that need educating, as well as drivers

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by prydey

so, how many children do you have? and how close do you live to your school?

Missed my point completely , in 99% of cases it is the parents of said kids that create 99% of the problems . For whatever reason they create the problem by all having to cause chaos because they all need to park in the same area at once . Bit like xmas shopping all year round ( no consideration for anyone else ). I have no problem with the lowered speed limit as such and between the hours of 8 am to 9 am great , because around here that's when they all rock up .
Between 7 - 7.30 when I go through no kids ,no cars are EVER there , only the occasional copper with his revenue gun ,making sure no one runs him over because he is the only one within cooee .
As for kids one and two grand daughters now and a few little ones from my nieces a nephews . I have no issue with a limit , I have an issue with the parents .
If you don't slow down in any congested area regardless of posted limits you deserve to get pinged .FFS some people think a car park is a 60 kmh zone.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

Ok, here are some hard academic facts for GOVCO and their mindless supporters that use childrens lives as a way to control and raise tax revenue (obviously this research wasn't a bodgy construct of the current state govts - who amazingly get the exact results from their research these days that justifies what they are doing):

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation"

from:
http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/speed/vol-1.html
Results of Solomon (1964, p 16)
image

image

as you can see,
1) the lowest accident rates are for drivers going almost 10mph over the speed limit - not at the speed limit. wait - how could this be - oh thats right the govt doesn't tell the truth.

2)the safest speed is just over 65 mph during daylight hours - how could this be, driving faster causes more accident right ?

3) people going 10mph slower than the limit are more dangerous than those going 10mph over the limit!!!!!

I have printed this out and next time i get pulled over I will prove that by exceeding the speed limit I am actually less likely to have an accident.

BTW, this means that that all this propaganda about just 5km/h over is actually killing more people - think about it.

You obviously don't have kids... Only credible scientific data.