W427 finished

[EgoFalcon]

I thought was pretty dumb for HSV to do it, in europe its vauxhall and its the v8 supercahrged and if came here would been cheaper then w427 and more powerful and probably would attracted more people, there is an economic crisis but these cars are 65-80k (155k is just like wtf? thats my superannuation), god dam, you dont see many people in these cars to be honest, there expensive and on average maybe 1 in a 100 people have them? so they had money in first place. Cant really blame people here for saying f6 is better because it is a ford forum and we all (or I hope we all) pledge our loyalty to the blue oval, but if holden closes down in australia, I will garantee ford australia will close down aswell, and even if we weren't in an economic crisis people still wouldnt buy it, some people are dumb, but 155k is quite stupid, and aussie cars are cheap compared rest of the world, keep it that way, we love it here, if havnt got a falcon or commodore go for a test drive and get one, keep jobs here and hopefully we will see falcons and commodores operations in the future, we dont want chinese taking our jobs, there quality is crap but cheap, have a good day!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by b2tf

It is this train of thought that will ensure that Australian manufacturers cannot sell things like W427 - if it had a Merc badge on it I am sure it would have sold a hell of a lot more. People want all the euro trimmings on an Aussie sedan budget and it just doesnt happen. You cant expect Ford/Holden etc to be able to produce euro style/quality cars when nobody buys the cars they build now - which for the record I think personally stand up to any beemer etc. Development costs money which is brought in by sales of your product and when you have people whinging about the product and not supporting it it won't go very far.

I personally would rather support Aussie companies and jobs and, in my opinion, get a better car for my money, rather than shell out just for the sake of a badge.

Same train of thought is with the regular Falcons. The Mazda 6 and Falcon are about the same price. Yet people who buy the Falcon expect to get a lot more then what the car is selling for in its price and numbers. Then they make out that the Falcon cost too much and try to squeeze ever dollar in the sale and then complain about the fact that the service departments seem to only want to churn out the cars for servicing and not identify intermittent problems.

Originally Posted by velocity_avisGT

and it has some minor cometic changes, but not 76k more.
It's been mentioned that it costs a fair amount to build it (4vman), but if they knew it was going to cost so much to manufacture (which would result in a higher RRP), why would you even consider making it the way they did?

Maybe because people would complain that it wasn't different enough, that it was just a 'sticker pack with different seats, it doesn't look different enough to the cheaper model'.....does it sound familiar to what people have said about the Cobra, r-spec FPV's, F6X.

Your stuffed either way, make the car so it will be in the right price range and be accused of doing a half a$$ed job or do alot more for it and watch the RRP blow out.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Sorry to be pedantic but has anyone actually confirmed this 120 unit build????

Going off the drive article last year HSV said they sold 'about 100 units' with 40 more on order. So if you use ACA logic about 100 = 91 units, and the 40 may have dropped off from the 'GFC' and people dropping off to lets say 30. So it could be around that number but I haven't seen anything in print about it. So I guess you would have to ask where this info came from.

[prydey]

its probably fair to say that for a large percentage on the forums, $150k is a fair chunk of change. way more than any of us are likely to spend on transportation.

when we judge a cars value we often do so using our own circumstances. look at this from another point of view. people who spend $150k+ on a car normally have a reasonable amount more than that in the bank and a fair chunk coming in each week or so. instead of thinking which euro they could have for the same money, they might think, wow, here's an aussie car that gives me the same 'value' as a 'mid sized' euro.

everything is relative.

also you can't just add prices up from bits out of the parts bin and say why is it so dear (the w427 that is). like 4vman says, R&D cost money, as does making it ADR compliant.

having said all that, i never liked it from a styling point of view. looked like a walrus at the front and too much like a commodore inside. sometimes i think they would've been better off scrapping the commodore dna and building it as its own model.

[YOOT]

The best bit is they will be had for $40K second hand in three years LOL! I'll stick to my Suby :

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by myts

I know this is not how they do it but...

The issue to me is you can buy a GTS $75K list, some trim $5k, Brakes $5k, Wheels $5K, 7.0l Vette engine $20K (eagle spares) thats $110k total allow for details I don't know total $125K

Now sell off HSV wheels, ap brakes, and 6.2 motor. if you couldn't get $15K I'l go hee.

So $150k is too much. I don't care what it cost to build, it cost too much to buy. Remember there is a lot of people who can't see the value in a HSV over an SS. $95K and make a 1,000 of the suckers makes more sense. A volume manufacturer worrying about the value of a car in 30 years is nuts.

I do add my voice to the the people giving them a cheer for having a go.

T

People should care how much it costs to build because then and only then is a proper appreciation gained for what it costs to build a car like this in today’s environment.

In your description of what is what you have only scratched the surface of the cars true engineering worth and ultimately its cost.

Adding 6 piston callipers to a DCS calibration that is now not part of Holden's engineering, means dedicated costs to HSV. Aftermarket want bigger brakes sure just stick em on if your wheels are big enough. ABS EBD EBA DCS? Yeah the fish and chip stores around the corner mate!!!!

MRC, an additional setting is a 6 figure sum. We aren't talking Australian hand me down features the rational norm of Australian cars. These features are at the leading edge of current technology and as such they are expensive.

I go as far as saying HSV made a few mistakes with this project but not many.

To start with the initial reports of $125 and $135k were stupid. They should never have allowed those reports to surface. If they were incomplete control of this project then they would have known the estimated RRP from the beginning. Lowballing it to get interest is suicide.

Its interior was not of a car worth $150k in my eyes. HSV got this wrong and in doing so dramatically hurt their potential customer base.

And lastly and I have read here that HSV should have seen the economic meltdown coming. Well that’s a pretty cleaver trick to pull off when you stop and think about who didn't see it coming in the magnitude we are privy too now. There are going to be some pretty substantial businesses in the same boat if that point is backdated to sign off.


HSV and FPV problem here is the same that race teams face. Incremental improvements are expensive and the people that appreciate the full depth of engineering behind such endeavours lacking or so it seems reading this thread.

Aftermarket isn't an argument fitting of being on the same page. Rarely if at all do tuners cover 1/5 of the parameters being deal OM.

The last issue HSV got wrong was the name. Walkingshaw means next to nothing in this country. If you are going to have a product like this you need to, in part, bank on some pedigree.

FPV have been building their specials to a price. We have been saying that’s wrong. The latest special the 5th is actually a pretty good package in terms of content but it’s a car with no pedigree. Who celebrates a 5th anniversary?

The 40th was fitting and perhaps too the cobra but they weren’t executed as they should have been because FPV were aiming for a price target. They sold out purely on perceive pedigree not engineering integrity.


Not long ago we had Rod present to our club and this subject sort of came up. Some of it was in reference to the next Gen FPV and went something like this.

Bright idea for front splitter change-> asks for costing for change -> sum of money for one item is 6 figures. Now they can do that or they can spend the money elsewhere but the perceived appreciation on worth is different for everyone. What do performance customers value.

There is only one thing sadder than an Australian initiative, endeavour or ingenuity failing and that’s people taking glee from it, especially when so much isn't understood or appreciated.

We simply can’t sit here and exploit the virtues of our home grown product to the world and then when it’s taken to the next level resort to the old adage of its just a Holden or a Ford. We enjoy reading global praise from renowned experts purporting the class of the chassis or the virtues of our engineering base but yet at the drop of a hat we (sometimes in the same breath) resort to thinking that is entrenched in the 80s.

Our industry has moved on! Why haven’t we?

[Sprint347]

Originally Posted by YOOT

The best bit is they will be had for $40K second hand in three years LOL! I'll stick to my Suby :

My mate paid $15k for his VK Group A Brock with 90,000kms 7 years ago.

[Sprint347]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The reason they didnt leave the price at 120K was they would have lost money selling it at 120K.
The cost of building this car kept climbing day on day...

Yes, the dry-sump TITANIUM CONROD LS7 engine isn't exactly cheap!

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Sorry to be pedantic but has anyone actually confirmed this 120 unit build????

Didn't you have some input in it's development? i am sure you can ask the head developer to answer that one for you.

[RedHotGT]

W427 didn't sell as well as they first predicted???
Didn't see that one coming...

*(nudges guide dog for appropriate grunt)*

Overpriced, Underperforming, Born at the wrong time....
And, its not a FORD...

[Sprint347]

I just wrote a massive response after hitting 'edit' on my previous post and got 'You can only edit your post 20 minutes after posting'

Too ****ed off to re-write it.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

Didn't you have some input in it's development? i am sure you can ask the head developer to answer that one for you.

I no longer work for the supplier who was involved in the project, but i will probably give my friends at HSV a call during the week to see how much "fact" is behind this..
I do know they were building them in 2 batches split over 2 years.. we might just be at the end of run 1...
Ian is spot on about this, id love to share far more about the development costs associated with a car like this but its probably best i don't for obvious reasons...

[my gt]

i saw it at the motor show looked good, however for me its not a ford
cheers

[Mark351]

Why don't they build the remaining units and send them to the UK as Vauxhalls? Give one to Clarkson and the boys, who already like the local product, and I'm sure they'll be snapped up there.

[FPV8U]

I think it's a real shame and shows to me the lack of a Market for a GT-HO, for the money i would have put my backside in a AMG or Audi as there is more to a car than an engine and the W427's build quility would be as "Good" as every other VE out there...

Unless FPV realease their model below 100K they need not bother, as the 427 is a great car, but it's still a Holden and having a Higher end Euro was always going to be the better option for most.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by HSE2

And lastly and I have read here that HSV should have seen the economic meltdown coming. Well that’s a pretty cleaver trick to pull off.....

Ford did.

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by b2tf

You cant expect Ford/Holden etc to be able to produce euro style/quality cars when nobody buys the cars they build now - which for the record I think personally stand up to any beemer etc.
I personally would rather support Aussie companies and jobs and, in my opinion, get a better car for my money, rather than shell out just for the sake of a badge.

Sorry mate but have you driven ANY Euro car for an extended period of time? Or spent some time looking at the way the interiors are put together? There is no comparison I am afraid. And nor there should be, your paying a premium for the pleasure. Audi are a perfect example, a person at work has a new Audi and the interior is just mint. You just drool.

I have no problem supporting the Aussie product, in fact I have owned an EF, EL, BA, AU and now another EL! But I have had it with Aussie cars for the moment. Why pay $50k for a new Aussie car that will be worth $30k in a years time (or worse) when you can pick up something tasty 2nd hand and Euro that has lost all its value already? Previous model M5 for about 50k anyone?

The HSV is just too bogan for $150k. Look at the baboon butt red interior. Enough said. For that money, M3 me.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by b2tf

If it were a Falcon/FPV variant everybody here would have loved it. At least Holden had a go.

It was the way they gloated about how successful it was going to be that got me, i'm not having a go at them for trying it, its just the arrogant BS they peddle to talk themselves up that made me laugh. Especially when they talked about having 1500 solid expressions of interest.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It was the way they gloated about how successful it was going to be that got me, i'm not having a go at them for trying it, its just the arrogant BS they peddle to talk themselves up that made me laugh. Especially when they talked about having 1500 solid expressions of interest.

Ford have been guilty of this type of thing plenty of times. For example, remember Bill Osborne gloating that the FG would comfortably outsell the VE? What a joke that turned out to be.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by stevz

Ford have been guilty of this type of thing plenty of times. For example, remember Bill Osborne gloating that the FG would comfortably outsell the VE? What a joke that turned out to be.

He said he hoped it would outsell the VE, and he was confident it would. He didn't say there's no doubt it would outsell the VE. Thats just arrogant, something Holden and HSV do quite often.

There's a difference.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Sorry mate but have you driven ANY Euro car for an extended period of time? Or spent some time looking at the way the interiors are put together? There is no comparison I am afraid. And nor there should be, your paying a premium for the pleasure. Audi are a perfect example, a person at work has a new Audi and the interior is just mint. You just drool.

Yeah and call me a bogan, call me whatever you like, but I love the interior in my FG. I have no issues with it, it seems well built, and I'm happy with it. Just because it's not euro doesnt mean it's crap.

And for reference yes Ive driven plenty of Euro cars and found them all boring - give me my V8 anyday, but then again I guess I am a bogan aren't I.

Why pay $50k for a new Aussie car that will be worth $30k in a years time (or worse) when you can pick up something tasty 2nd hand and Euro that has lost all its value already? Previous model M5 for about 50k anyone?

Maybe if more people bought aussie cars they'd hold their value. For 50k you could get a Euro car ie M5 like youve suggested, and if you want that sort of thing that's fine - or for 50k you could have an Aussie built, individuall numbered (so not something run of the mill) GT with just as much fruit in it for the same price. And I dont include frilly crap like heated seats that you would be lucky to use 3 days of the year anywhere in Oz. How many people do you think will be able to tell you what your M5 is, as compared to those who would instantly be able to identify your GT?

The HSV is just too bogan for $150k. Look at the baboon butt red interior. Enough said. For that money, M3 me.

Is a Ph3 GTHO bogan for $150k? Or would you choose that over an import?

As for the red leather, does that mean Porsches and Ferraris that have it are babboon butts too?

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It was the way they gloated about how successful it was going to be that got me, i'm not having a go at them for trying it, its just the arrogant BS they peddle to talk themselves up that made me laugh. Especially when they talked about having 1500 solid expressions of interest.

Fair point but it wouldnt have really worked if they (HSV) came out and said "ummm, yeah we're going to build this care and we think it might work, a few people have said yeah they're keen on one". Ford wouldn't have a press release saying they were going to build a GTHO without talking it up a bit - they have to to make it sell.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The reason they didnt leave the price at 120K was they would have lost money selling it at 120K.
The cost of building this car kept climbing day on day...

That's their bad luck.

Just goes to show that arrogance and slick marketing won't sell a car that nobody wants. The number of sales reflect this. Think about it. All I'm hearing is excuses as to why it's not selling. If it was such a great car sales wouldnt be a problem.

Nobody wants a dressed up $150K Executive VE.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Sorry mate but have you driven ANY Euro car for an extended period of time? Or spent some time looking at the way the interiors are put together? There is no comparison I am afraid. And nor there should be, your paying a premium for the pleasure. Audi are a perfect example, a person at work has a new Audi and the interior is just mint. You just drool.

I have no problem supporting the Aussie product, in fact I have owned an EF, EL, BA, AU and now another EL! But I have had it with Aussie cars for the moment. Why pay $50k for a new Aussie car that will be worth $30k in a years time (or worse) when you can pick up something tasty 2nd hand and Euro that has lost all its value already? Previous model M5 for about 50k anyone?

The HSV is just too bogan for $150k. Look at the baboon butt red interior. Enough said. For that money, M3 me.

Just don't break anything on an M5, the part prices would be obscene.

God forbid if you ever blew up one of the V10 engines. It would be worth more than the whole car.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Nobody wants a dressed up $150K Executive VE.

You bought a dressed up BF XL Ute?

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just don't break anything on an M5, the part prices would be obscene.

God forbid if you ever blew up one of the V10 engines. It would be worth more than the whole car.

It has a V8, you are thinking of the new M5. Yes the parts prices would be disgusting, no doubt. That has to be taken into consideration.

How many people do you think will be able to tell you what your M5 is, as compared to those who would instantly be able to identify your GT?

Precisely why I like those types of cars. Only car people know what they are. I don't need everyone looking at me while I am driving anyway, not my style. Never been a fan of stripes etc etc all over cars.

As for the red leather, does that mean Porsches and Ferraris that have it are babboon butts too?

They are a bit more tastefully appointed than the HSV. That thing looks like a ricer has been let loose with a can of liquid Vynil paint. Even if I could afford a Ferrari mine would not have red leather. Again not my style.

And lastly I am not calling you a bogan. I am just saying that for the money the HSV is still that little bit too bogan no matter how they dress it up.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by b2tf

You bought a dressed up BF XL Ute?

Yes I did. Around $100k less than a dressed up VE Omega.

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by b2tf

You bought a dressed up BF XL Ute?

Ya, probably cost him $90k less

edit: beat me to it!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Ford did.

No they didn't, Ford were in trouble in 06 and after two down balances they cant wait for Focus to go online.

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by Ghosn

Think about what? You posted a statement that was wrong and not very well thought out and now u have changed your tune after someone picked it out?



Ahh Now it's modded vs factory? I'm sure the F6 would be legal too, yes?

And what does insurance have to do with anything? I'm sure an individual who can afford to purchase a 150k car can afford to insure it. Why would a person be too scared to take it anywhere? Maybe everyone who owns a 150k+ car should just leave it in their garage for dust collection going by your theory?

You have much pent up anger.
Ok, so you have purchased your W427. Insured no worries(cos your rich)if you have a crash how long do you think the insurer is going to need to source parts? You sound like someone I work with. A Nitpicker. Yeah your right I'd pick an F6 over the W427 for modability. So get off your high horse.

[DJM83]

Wont be long and this thread will be finished just like 427 if people dont smarten up