Vfacts august 2019 - Page 4

au2000 · 09-09-2019, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon varley

and Transit.

that's why Ford NA got out of the car business last year. Trucks, SUVs and Mustang only. Ranger for us, and Transit for Eu. Everything else is borderline profitable at best

Totally get the logic re chasing gross profit over sales numbers, but if Ford Aus are focused on Ranger as their main profitable product i'd think it would be a risky move.. you know the old saying .. all your eggs in 1 basket...

Bossxr8 · 09-09-2019, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Rumors of a twin turbo V8 for commodore or cadillac. Priced well would bring all the buyers back... Massive hole with no V8 commodore.

Wheels spotted a Cadillac outside the Lang Lang proving ground (most likely having transmission calibration work done), and suddenly they added 2 and 2 together and got 341, and suggested it was going to be the next Commodore.

Just disregard the fact that it would be 80k for a base model one, and they don't make it in RHD. No ones paying 80k for a base model Commodore. The performance versions would be 120-150k.

The Commodore is dead as soon as the supply contract with PSA expires, cause GM ain't spending a couple hundred million making one of their sedans available in RHD to sell about 500 a month. The business case for the ZB only stacked up because it was also the Insignia to sell into Europe. Which GM no longer bothers with. Got out of South Africa and India too. Australia and NZ are pretty much the only RHD countries GM still sells too, and you have to wonder how long that will last.

They can probably get away with it for Corvette cause the profit margins will be extremely high, and being rear engined makes it a piece of cake switching the steering shaft to the other side, with no engine to get in the way.

Vesper Martini · 09-09-2019, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Below is Ford business plan for performance cars.

.......................

Ford do have them
https://www.ford.com/new-performance-vehicles/

But In Australia people are already upset with the current vehicle prices.

au2000 · 09-09-2019, 12:19 PM

i'd agree with you bossxr8, once the ZB life cycle is done I can't imagine the commodore name being put onto anything else.. TBH i'm surprised that "holden" as a brand is still about, I seriously thought by now they would have changed to Chevorlet branding

jpd80 · 09-09-2019, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au2000

Totally get the logic re chasing gross profit over sales numbers, but if Ford Aus are focused on Ranger as their main profitable product i'd think it would be a risky move.. you know the old saying .. all your eggs in 1 basket...

and if Ford didn't do that, it would be in a worse predicament than Holden..
take off 2.000 sales a month and you have Colorado numbers but total sales
would be less than 3,000 a month.

The only reason that Ford is focused on Ranger is because it's the only thing that sells
in decent numbers - not because they're picking it over any other product they currently sell,
no other product they have has anything like the showroom appeal of Ranger.

**janddbone** · 09-09-2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Wheels spotted a Cadillac outside the Lang Lang proving ground (most likely having transmission calibration work done), and suddenly they added 2 and 2 together and got 341, and suggested it was going to be the next Commodore.

Just disregard the fact that it would be 80k for a base model one, and they don't make it in RHD. No ones paying 80k for a base model Commodore. The performance versions would be 120-150k.

The Commodore is dead as soon as the supply contract with PSA expires, cause GM ain't spending a couple hundred million making one of their sedans available in RHD to sell about 500 a month. The business case for the ZB only stacked up because it was also the Insignia to sell into Europe. Which GM no longer bothers with. Got out of South Africa and India too. Australia and NZ are pretty much the only RHD countries GM still sells too, and you have to wonder how long that will last.

They can probably get away with it for Corvette cause the profit margins will be extremely high, and being rear engined makes it a piece of cake switching the steering shaft to the other side, with no engine to get in the way.

Yep, I assume the bulk of future product may come from China or another manufacturer all together. Although it is unclear the long term future of Korea and Thailand, one could assume they are likely gone in the medium term? Hard years ahead for Holden.

jpd80 · 09-09-2019, 02:45 PM

It begins with getting Ford better products that can justify the higher prices asked,
new Focus begins that journey, Escape follows it. Fiesta ST and Focus ST are a great
move, I hope it pays off for Ford.

Endura needs the 2.0 Ecoboost version as a price leader even if it sets the entry point
at around $45K, it gives Ford a larger SUV that's more competitively priced and that
engages more buyers. It might be a sales bust in Europe but I think there's still some
hope for our market and a way for Ford to get a return on its RHD investment.

If Ford wants to follow the Mazda formula, it has to think things through and be consistent,
each product has to be something that deserves to be there and priced correctly but more
than that, people have to like the products and want to buy them, even if the price is high.
....(Ranger showed them the way)

Sprintey · 09-09-2019, 04:46 PM

Look at the design/cohesiveness/minimalism of the Mazda interiors; and the quality of their higher grade interiors... they've earned it over the years

**russellw** · 10-09-2019, 08:28 AM

The graphical statistics for August are now available in the Tech Portal.

Cheers
Russ

Sprintey · 10-09-2019, 11:04 AM

not directly related to Australian sales for August, but overnight in NY Moody's has cut Ford to junk:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-to-boost-cash

more in-depth at bloomberg quint:

https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb...-to-boost-cash

a more sangine view, posted one day before the junk announcement (!):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/429...rd-fear-future

and more pessimistic but with good chart of bond commitments into 2027:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tu...lion-debt-junk

jpd80 · 10-09-2019, 02:48 PM

Wall Street doesn't get it becaue Ford is busy replacing its car sales with more
truck and SUV sales ahead of a veritable product avalance in the US next year.

August sales (we're not supposed to see this anymore btw)
When Ford US sells 211K vehicles a month and FoA sells 5K, we really are a speck of fly sh..

Vesper Martini · 10-09-2019, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Wall Street doesn't get it becaue Ford is busy replacing its car sales with more
truck and SUV sales ahead of a veritable product avalance in the US next year.

August sales (we're not supposed to see this anymore btw)
When Ford US sells 211K vehicles a month and FoA sells 5K, we really are a speck of fly sh..

image

Lincoln alone - something not even considered here doubled our figures

Dr Smith · 10-09-2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Lincoln alone - something not even considered here doubled our figures

And if they brought the Aviator here it'd be double plus one.

Put aside the Mustang's numbers from the Ford brand "car" numbers and SUV's sell 5 times as much but self-inflicted by the dropping of models completely.
They sold 93,000 Focus in 2018 before dropping it so either it really made no money or...don't know what actually.

Vesper Martini · 10-09-2019, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

They sold 93,000 Focus in 2018 before dropping it so either it really made no money or...don't know what actually.

And their figures for the month were 8k down on last years, which happens to be how many Focus they sold.

jpd80 · 10-09-2019, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

And if they brought the Aviator here it'd be double plus one.

Put aside the Mustang's numbers from the Ford brand "car" numbers and SUV's sell 5 times as much but self-inflicted by the dropping of models completely.
They sold 93,000 Focus in 2018 before dropping it so either it really made no money or...don't know what actually.

I can tell you it was an absolute SH fight with Mulally and Focus at Wayne / Michigan Assembly plant.
Mulally hit the roof when told it was basically a CAFE offset for large cars that lost money,
the last of the SE Focus (trends) were carrying about US $4K incentive for the past 12 months.

IMO Yanks stuffed up badly, shoulda signed for Ranger at Michigan for 2011 and put
Focus in Mexico with Fiesta, now that would have worked out a ton better with lower costs.

Fusion is a very sad case of a car that Ford has deliberately tried to kill off since 2015
and the lazy refresh, so sad to report that now around 80% of sales are SE (Trend) after
all the Titanium buyers deserted Ford (same bloody car over and over), just terrible to watch.
They want it gone so they can use Hermosillo plant for other products.

Ford basically setting up vehicles so they fail, "look see doesn't make money"
Yeah, only after they white ant it and knobble the crap out of any financial support..
Sound like Falcon?

jpd80 · 10-09-2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Lincoln alone - something not even considered here doubled our figures

Consider the Lincoln base model to be like a Trend with leather and tech pack but with Titanium price.

Sprintey · 10-09-2019, 08:36 PM

If you look at jpd's link, it seems they are still selling the E-Series in the US.

Mmmmmmmm, E-Series.

jpd80 · 11-09-2019, 08:48 AM

Vesper Martini · 11-09-2019, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Consider the Lincoln base model to be like a Trend with leather and tech pack but with Titanium price.

Really? they are not that good

jpd80 · 11-09-2019, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Really? they are not that good

People think a base Lincoln is just a re-skinned Titanium trim level of the equivalent Ford,
they're not. Lincoln gas about four trim levels of its own and while no real POV packs, you do need
to spend significant coin to get the kind of Lincoln package most buyers expect.

Bossxr8 · 11-09-2019, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

And their figures for the month were 8k down on last years, which happens to be how many Focus they sold.

Which will be easily covered for once Bronco goes into production. At a significantly higher profit.

For all the passenger vehicles they are dropping, the number of units they are losing will be replaced with SUV's that bring in excellent profits.

As much as the idea of dropping pssenger vehicles from the line up seems like a bad move, and won't suit everyone's buying tastes, it will result in a significantly better bottom line for the company. Incentives required to sell cars like Fusion etc were insane and resulted in nothing but red ink.

IanC · 11-09-2019, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

That said, an affordable electric runabout means it's possible to not pay fuel for a year, so that 2K to 5K is better in my pocket.

How long do you think that will last before the govt realises it is not getting any fuel tax from electric vehicles? Just as soon as electric vehicles start getting popular the govt will bring out a new tax on them probably based on kilometrage. I wouldn't put it past them to slap the new tax onto existing petrol vehicles also in addition to fuel tax. No doubt telling us it is to protect the environment.

BENT_8 · 11-09-2019, 05:50 PM

The shareholders must be ecstatic...

I'll stick with the no/low frills Koreans thanks.

vztrt · 11-09-2019, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanC

How long do you think that will last before the govt realises it is not getting any fuel tax from electric vehicles? Just as soon as electric vehicles start getting popular the govt will bring out a new tax on them probably based on kilometrage. I wouldn't put it past them to slap the new tax onto existing petrol vehicles also in addition to fuel tax. No doubt telling us it is to protect the environment.

Realises? They will have a tactic to have early adopters and then adjust a tax on as they become affordable and mainstream. This would be the plan.
Same as solar. High rates of feed in for early adopters and then it eventually finishes.

Dr Smith · 11-09-2019, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

image

Can it be extrapolated no Ranger hybrid?

**janddbone** · 11-09-2019, 06:12 PM

I imagine the dealers will miss the 150,000+ Fusion servicing!

Adamz Ghia · 11-09-2019, 07:04 PM

No different when they gave a rebate for everyone to convert to LPG. Then surprise surprise they slapped a tax on it

Vesper Martini · 12-09-2019, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

No different when they gave a rebate for everyone to convert to LPG. Then surprise surprise they slapped a tax on it

most definitely the Same thing will happen to EVs.

Adamz Ghia · 14-09-2019, 01:49 AM

It’ll either go to distance travelled or with the smart meters Victoria has they will tax you every time you charge your car.

Franco Cozzo · 14-09-2019, 07:21 AM

Was doing figures yesterday at work, I only spend about $2700/year on diesel as a rough estimate per year just driving to and from work (just under 30,000km/year just work and back)

It's a lot of outlay up front to save $2700 when you look at the buy price on electric cars.

Nissan Leaf is circa $50K - $20K more than normal competitors - $20K buys you a tonne of fuel.