Be prosecuted for illegal gas connection. Urgent help

[aussiblue]

And both profession can get it wrong. When my 1980's house was built;

a) the GAS installer placed the instantaneous HWS too close to the meter (right next to it) and it had to be moved before the GAS company would issue the required approvals.
b) I discovered (when I plugged in a test plug device) that most of my power points were not earthed as the sparkie had relied on simply screwing the grub screw so far in that it would pierce the insulation on the earth wire; in most cases this didn't happen and the power points weren't earthed. He also had the wires mixed on the front external light; we didn't find that one until we retrofitted RCDs and one tripped every time we turned on the front light.

[Boosted8]

Originally Posted by MDS69

2.5mm2 is rated to 20A.

I'm not an electrician so I guess I quoted the size wrong. I did say IIRC = if I recall correctly.

Originally Posted by trublu

I think he got bit confused in his post but we all know what he meant to say.
Undersized current rating cable was used.

Yeah, that's the gist of it.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Yeah thanks for your positive reply. You would think that if there that worried about the dangers of electricity and gas that they would regulate the sales of the stuff so only licensed people can buy the stuff. I mean you can't buy prescription drugs and guns plus lots of other stuff without a license because there dangerous. I know heaps of people that do there own wiring for minor things. Highly illegal but there's no certificate or compliance plate put on a house to prove compliance. How would anyone ever prove that electrical work was done by a licensed electrician and what date it was done.

Thankfully these days all electricians must provide certificates of electrical safety to all electrical work regardless how big or small, for older installations can be questionable but you can get your dwellings tested by licenced inspectors/electricians if you have doubt.

Plumbers/gas fitters also issue safety certificates for their work.

[creative]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I'd be looking at this closer, im not sure they are allowed to do that either.
Not with regards to your problem with the gas, but to stick it up the ***** for dobbing you in.

Wont get you anywhere. Nothing you can do about the LL standing in the street and taking photos. He would only be in breach if he entered the premises including gardens. He could sit outside all day if he wanted.

As for the real estate not helping, that doesnt surprise me. Unfortunately your agreement is with the gas company. They are the ones that would have to investigate the issue first. If its found to be an issue with the property then it becomes the landlords problem and he has to act, or if there is an obvious leak within the property.

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

You have already said stuff you cant take back. If it goes to Court, there is nothing to stop you defending your-self. All you have to do is seem like a fair and reasonable person in your actions. Ask questions, like did I break a seal ? Why is there not a special nut that is tamper-proof to stop people undoing the connection ? I used the correct type of Gas and fitment, is this any different to what a Gas-fitter would do ? Any utility company will always be slow responding when they are making more money. See how quickly they respond if you have a water leak before the meter ! You were motivated to find the source of large Bills, that is very different to trying to cheat them. Given the delay from when you reported the problem, it should all work in your favour.

[blueoval]

Slightly off topic question, but what would happen of the OP was actually a licensed gas fitter (perhaps licensed but not practicing full time) and did this act? Other than losing his license, what are the ramifications?

On topic: Sorry to hear of your ordeal EATurbo. I feel your pain with gas bills. Mine are high also and I have also questioned it only for it to fall on deaf ears. I haven't thought about converting to bottles until now since its mentioned. Not sure what would be involved. I do own my own home which is a bonus.

I would limit your involvement about this on public forums. I know it's hard to trace this to you personally but govco is govco and have ways to infiltrate.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Slightly off topic question, but what would happen of the OP was actually a licensed gas fitter (perhaps licensed but not practicing full time) and did this act? Other than losing his license, what are the ramifications?

On topic: Sorry to hear of your ordeal EATurbo. I feel your pain with gas bills. Mine are high also and I have also questioned it only for it to fall on deaf ears. I haven't thought about converting to bottles until now since its mentioned. Not sure what would be involved. I do own my own home which is a bonus.

I would limit your involvement about this on public forums. I know it's hard to trace this to you personally but govco is govco and have ways to infiltrate.

Regardless you are qualified or not I would imagine you would be prosecuted & fined, no paperwork & certificates were issued to relevant authority plus you were tampering with metered equipment which would only be accessed by relevant authority own gas fitters or contractors who are authorised.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by trublu

Regardless you are qualified or not I would imagine you would be prosecuted & fined, no paperwork & certificates were issued to relevant authority plus you were tampering with metered equipment which would only be accessed by relevant authority own gas fitters or contractors who are authorised.

Thanks. I thought so. Just reading this thread makes me want to be off the grid more and more.

[The Yeti]

Mate you know you've done wrong, calling you an idiot isn't going to fix that so I wont bother

Id be very surprised if they sting you 20k in fines, my biggest concern will be when they reconnect that they may find something else wrong in the system unrelated to what youve done and still try to stick you with the repair

And I don't envy you my mrs would kill me if this happend to us

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

Mate you know you've done wrong, calling you an idiot isn't going to fix that so I wont bother

Id be very surprised if they sting you 20k in fines, my biggest concern will be when they reconnect that they may find something else wrong in the system unrelated to what youve done and still try to stick you with the repair

And I don't envy you my mrs would kill me if this happend to us

Yeah I'm still recovering from the Mrs, it's all connected and been given the tick of approval. Agree I don't think I will get a 20k fine either but there's a lot of numbers between 0 and 20k

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Yeah I'm still recovering from the Mrs, it's all connected and been given the tick of approval. Agree I don't think I will get a 20k fine either but there's a lot of numbers between 0 and 20k

Yeah I have know idea how they'll structure it

I'd really like to know how you go with the ombudsman LPG is more expensive than NG (I have 45kg cylinders here and it hurts in winter) my my monthly in winder is 1 $105 cylinder exactly I would assume your would be less expensive as much of mine would be cylinder rental, delivery and so on so $600 odd is ludicrous

[snowcone]

Tell them to stick the gas up their clacker. Go and buy a small hotplate or a little plug in benchtop oven for your cooking. Hot water will be a little more difficult though. Boil the kettle? Shower at the caravan park across the road?
The whole country is in such a nanny situation now and it seems that every statutory authority is a training ground for dictators. No more "she'll be right mate" in this country now. The original Aussie is dead.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

Yeah I have know idea how they'll structure it

I'd really like to know how you go with the ombudsman LPG is more expensive than NG (I have 45kg cylinders here and it hurts in winter) my my monthly in winder is 1 $105 cylinder exactly I would assume your would be less expensive as much of mine would be cylinder rental, delivery and so on so $600 odd is ludicrous

I would assume it would be the same if it was NG.

They would work out what appliances you have, work out what the maximum MJ load would be and then work out of the gas usage is possible.

In Victoria its called a MHA gas order.

[xisled]

For everyone having issues with your high bills. If it is electricity or gas and you want your meter tested. You will be told by your retailer you will be charged if no fault.

But there is a way you can get it tested and it may be free. Go to the Ombudsman tell them you have a high invoice and you spoken to the retailer multiple times. Make sure you call the retailer and complain about the bill a couple of times. Record date time and who you spoke to so you can give this to the Ombudsman.

Tell the Ombudsman you want a meter test and because its with the Ombudsman you may not get charged for the meter test.

The 3 retailers I have worked for never charged for meter tests when an Ombudsman case came up.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by snowcone

Tell them to stick the gas up their clacker. Go and buy a small hotplate or a little plug in benchtop oven for your cooking. Hot water will be a little more difficult though. Boil the kettle? Shower at the caravan park across the road?
The whole country is in such a nanny situation now and it seems that every statutory authority is a training ground for dictators. No more "she'll be right mate" in this country now. The original Aussie is dead.

That's sort of what got me in this trouble, I'd had enough and said stick your gas where the sun don't shine. I had trouble with Origin in my last house when they use to come and fill my two 45kg bottles every 2 months from a truck. Strangely enough both bottles would always just happen to be empty the day they showed up. Told them to stick it and got a local gas supplier and bingo, one bottle every 8 to 12 weeks depending on season. Origin has been ripping me off for years but this time they have got me cornered cause I can't get out.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by snowcone

. The original Aussie is dead.

Yeah he blew himself up and electrocuted the neighbours!
JP

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

That's sort of what got me in this trouble, I'd had enough and said stick your gas where the sun don't shine. I had trouble with Origin in my last house when they use to come and fill my two 45kg bottles every 2 months from a truck. Strangely enough both bottles would always just happen to be empty the day they showed up. Told them to stick it and got a local gas supplier and bingo, one bottle every 8 to 12 weeks depending on season. Origin has been ripping me off for years but this time they have got me cornered cause I can't get out.

If you ever have a high bill. Call Origin twice record time, date and who you spoke to, will instruct Origin to do a proper investigation. Call Ombudsman who will make sure your bill is correct. Also cost the company every time you go to Ombudsman and if it has been going on for a while ask for a good will credit for bad customer service.

[BFGasUte]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

That's sort of what got me in this trouble, I'd had enough and said stick your gas where the sun don't shine. I had trouble with Origin in my last house when they use to come and fill my two 45kg bottles every 2 months from a truck. Strangely enough both bottles would always just happen to be empty the day they showed up. Told them to stick it and got a local gas supplier and bingo, one bottle every 8 to 12 weeks depending on season. Origin has been ripping me off for years but this time they have got me cornered cause I can't get out.

Hello,

Make mention of this if it goes to Court. It will show they have done the wrong thing, you caught them out hence the lack of action now. That alone is fraud, see who else has had the same trouble and there may be Legal action you can take against them. Get them on the back-pedal !

[xisled]

Originally Posted by BFGasUte

Hello,

Make mention of this if it goes to Court. It will show they have done the wrong thing, you caught them out hence the lack of action now. That alone is fraud, see who else has had the same trouble and there may be Legal action you can take against them. Get them on the back-pedal !

The problem is Origin the company who billed the OP is not the company who is going to hand out fine.

The people who are going to hand out the punishment are Department of natural resources and mines and has nothing to do with sending a gas bill out or filling up gas bottles.

Department of natural resources and mines may take it into consideration when making a decision about what has happened, but at the end of the day they are only concerned that gas worked was carried out by an unlicensed person.

If op wants to dispute gas costs he needs to go back to Origin.

[xurbanx]

Originally Posted by xisled

For everyone having issues with your high bills. If it is electricity or gas and you want your meter tested. You will be told by your retailer you will be charged if no fault.

But there is a way you can get it tested and it may be free. Go to the Ombudsman tell them you have a high invoice and you spoken to the retailer multiple times. Make sure you call the retailer and complain about the bill a couple of times. Record date time and who you spoke to so you can give this to the Ombudsman.

Tell the Ombudsman you want a meter test and because its with the Ombudsman you may not get charged for the meter test.

The 3 retailers I have worked for never charged for meter tests when an Ombudsman case came up.

I agree with what xisled has mentioned. I to, work for a retailer - best way would be through the Ombudsman, it actually gets things done.

You're going through enough already if it's any help have you tried applying for a Home Energy Emergency Assistance Scheme? Also, perhaps look at talking with legal aid and see if there's any advice they can give.

Good luck

[BFGasUte]

Originally Posted by xisled

The problem is Origin the company who billed the OP is not the company who is going to hand out fine.

The people who are going to hand out the punishment are Department of natural resources and mines and has nothing to do with sending a gas bill out or filling up gas bottles.

Department of natural resources and mines may take it into consideration when making a decision about what has happened, but at the end of the day they are only concerned that gas worked was carried out by an unlicensed person.

If op wants to dispute gas costs he needs to go back to Origin.

Hello,

I realize this, but if you can make a case where you have been overcharged by them before, and did nothing wrong other than not being licensed it will work in your favour if it does go to Court. Were the partly empty bottles replaced before on a charge for Gas used, or scheduled replacement ? That is the key point. Look at a Gas bill, is there a warning not to disconnect it ?

[SYZ]

Nooo way they'll hit you for 20 grand.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

I'd had enough and said stick your gas where the sun don't shine.

I did that a few years back with ACTEWAGL. I have natural gas and the only appliance that uses it was an old inefficient gas heater. I decided to cancel the gas and stick with wood. Fast forward 3 years until yesterday and low and behold i get 2 bills from ACTEWAGL addresses to energy consumer with overdue charges and a nice letter going on about the previous customer closed their account the gas was not disconnected and our meter readings show you've been using your gas supply. Problem is both bills have a start and end reading of 1181, which equates to 0 usage. The only charges are service charges. Im going to have some fun on tuesday (public holiday monday), but it wn't be fun for them because I am, how shall I say, not very happy at this attempted scam.
I asked for the service to be cancelled and disconnected as I had no intentions of using it again. Now I have to waste my time dealing with them. It will be entertaining for my work colleagues who'll overhear it.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

I did that a few years back with ACTEWAGL. I have natural gas and the only appliance that uses it was an old inefficient gas heater. I decided to cancel the gas and stick with wood. Fast forward 3 years until yesterday and low and behold i get 2 bills from ACTEWAGL addresses to energy consumer with overdue charges and a nice letter going on about the previous customer closed their account the gas was not disconnected and our meter readings show you've been using your gas supply. Problem is both bills have a start and end reading of 1181, which equates to 0 usage. The only charges are service charges. Im going to have some fun on tuesday (public holiday monday), but it wn't be fun for them because I am, how shall I say, not very happy at this attempted scam.
I asked for the service to be cancelled and disconnected as I had no intentions of using it again. Now I have to waste my time dealing with them. It will be entertaining for my work colleagues who'll overhear it.

Keen to hear the outcome. It's clearly a scam or scare tactic to get you to pay for a "service fee" of some sort. Trying to keep you on the grid. Tell em to get F'd

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

I did that a few years back with ACTEWAGL. I have natural gas and the only appliance that uses it was an old inefficient gas heater. I decided to cancel the gas and stick with wood. Fast forward 3 years until yesterday and low and behold i get 2 bills from ACTEWAGL addresses to energy consumer with overdue charges and a nice letter going on about the previous customer closed their account the gas was not disconnected and our meter readings show you've been using your gas supply. Problem is both bills have a start and end reading of 1181, which equates to 0 usage. The only charges are service charges. Im going to have some fun on tuesday (public holiday monday), but it wn't be fun for them because I am, how shall I say, not very happy at this attempted scam.
I asked for the service to be cancelled and disconnected as I had no intentions of using it again. Now I have to waste my time dealing with them. It will be entertaining for my work colleagues who'll overhear it.

Did you get a final bill & confirmation your account was closed when you applied to have it disconnected, it won't be fun for you if you have not the paper work.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Thanks for stating the obvious, and no they are not very differnt, hence the reason the inspector said what I have used is fine but I am still not licenced. Exactly the same parts are used to connect the bbq and the house to bottles. The question is not the quality of work or what I used but simply that is unlicensed gas fitting.

Yep, my neighbour was doing what you did for years before he moved out! Whenever the gas ran low, he'd hook up he smaller bottles till they delivered new ones!

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Yep, my neighbour was doing what you did for years before he moved out! Whenever the gas ran low, he'd hook up he smaller bottles till they delivered new ones!

Bottled gas is different as you are allowed to change them yourself. The op's situation is effectively classed as a mains connection for which you require a license. ( I'm a retired plumber and gas fitter and worked 7 years at sagasco )

[1TUFFUTE]

I wasn't supporting the idea one bit......just sharing an eg of a guy renting who was doing that for many years!all be it the legal way it turns out

And 'nuthin fancy'......I was simply trying to help the guy! I wasn't giving legal advice, as I noticed no one had bought up the subject and was surprised!

A quick search of the laws suggests there is a Minimum of 24 hrs notice,at best, for certain inspections of rental properties! As I'd suggested from pure common sense....it's a privacy matter! Most cases it's a written 7 day wait for owners too inspect a property.

So I would highly suggest the OP to bring this up to their lawyer.....as the initial incriminating information may have been acquired illegally/without consent!

[Giant Cranium]

The law may say that the landlord can't go onto the property but I'd say the courts would side with them on an illegal modification. Nothing would stop me going onto my rental if I knew they played with the gas. I'm sure the insurance would not be wanting to pay out in the event of an explosion.

I'm not having ago at the op. Just sharing my view on the landlord issue

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

The law may say that the landlord can't go onto the property but I'd say the courts would side with them on an illegal modification. Nothing would stop me going onto my rental if I knew they played with the gas. I'm sure the insurance would not be wanting to pay out in the event of an explosion.

I'm not having ago at the op. Just sharing my view on the landlord issue

So do you suggest the OP ignores even checking with his lawyer, and just hand over 20k!
And your actually (potentially) encouraging breaking the law if you charge onto your rental property! ( My brother in law right at this moment is waiting for his landlord to fix a faulty earth on their house....it's zapping them in the shower .....and there's been zero rush to fix that, despite the obvious risk to hurting people or burning the house down. So they've been forced to go to the docs and stay down here till its fixed!).

So my point is.....there is actually allowances for emergency inspections in rentals......but unless the owner is the qualified responder.....he has to apply for inspection.