Now Qantas 3000 jobs to go

[neptune273]

Qantas needs employees and investors who actually take pride and care about a national icon. Its up there with Vegemite, Anzacs etc etc. A couple of years ago on the evening news when QF first announced it would cut 600 jobs at its share holders meeting, the journalist asked one of the share holders ( a grey haired piece of s... who should be stoned) what he thought of 600 jobs going. The response from a smiling face was "I don't care how many they sack as long as I make money" Why would any employee go the extra yard for an owner with an attitude like that. If only we could find a way to sell off or run Anzac into the ground, cut down the harbour bridge and blow up Ares Rock, we are destroying everything else in this country. We could even sell "Australia" to the Chinese for 1c.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by neptune273

We could even sell "Australia" to the Chinese for 1c.

Well you couldn't really.......we don't own it all.......

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by neptune273

Qantas needs employees and investors who actually take pride and care about a national icon. Its up there with Vegemite, Anzacs etc etc.

From my (limited) experience flying with Qantas I've found the employees take great pride in their company.

If management and shareholders had the same pride they would not be in the current crisis.

P.S. We don't own Vegemite anymore

[Maka]

Is Qantas heritige listed? Seriously!

cheers, Maka

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by calais

Alan Joyce has a lot to answer for.

An awful lot.

He is much like a politician - All spin. Where the good results mate?

As much as I hate to admit it.....

QANTAS made profits in 09/10/11

Joyce appointed in 08

[Charliewool]

The Kiwis can do it... Why not Qantas?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...227-33j29.html

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The Kiwis can do it... Why not Qantas?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...227-33j29.html

A relatively new fleet, running profitable routes, the fact they have already been through some major cost cutting, the economic upturn in NZ which has increased tourism and busienss travel demand have all been key to Air NZ's success. Their brand has become massively huge in the last few years taking many awards for cabin service.

However it wasn't always good for them having suffered badly from acquiring Ansett in 2001 requiring government debt for equity intervention to keep them running. I'm not sure if they have the same problems resulting from restrictions on ownership as Qantas has, but if the NZ government sells off its share that same restriction could be imposed on them to keep the airline in Kiwi hands.

[mik]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

that's great dash . just have to get my kids to change their aviation ambitions to forklift driver /stacker at bunnings .
oh and i was talking about the govt . not unions they dont run the country . and if they were , i'd consider voting for them . what have we got left to lose right !!

I don't know about that , the unions certainly are good mates with the labor party and you would have to be a bit naïve to assert they have no influence in the scheme of things, and every opportunity the union gets it clearly denigrates opposition and talks up labor.
there is no disputing unions have done some good things over the years, but .......... they also can't be absolved from some of the blame for the position many find themselves today.
As for your kids hopefully they will find rewarding employment somewhere, it just more than likely won't be in manufacturing/metals/textiles/etc, thanks to it being the sacrificial lamb of industry due to decades of policy direction of which the major partys should share the blame....

[Romulus]

If it's any consolation Virgin Australia just announced a $83.7 million loss. The airline sector is too competitive and tickets are too cheap.

I can't understand charging such low fees for air travel. You're seated in an aircraft costing anywhere between $75 million to $ 360 million, and you're paying ~$300 to $400 to fly to Singapore, for example. The question that needs to be asked is, where's the compromise? Poor staff wages, poor service, lack of maintenance? Lack of profit?

I remember hearing an aviation writer once saying, "the problem with LCC's (low cost carriers) is those who shouldn't fly can now afford to fly". I think he was referring more to flying etiquette than airline viability.

I'm a Qantas shareholder, I used to fly Qantas whenever I needed to travel. I now fly Singapore Airlines or Cathay Pacific 3-5 times per year when I travel to Asia. Qantas doesn't cut it when it comes to routes and pricing.

While Qantas is dropping the PER-SIN route, the other carriers are looking at increasing seats.

SQ flies the PER-SIN route 4 times per day
EK fly PER - DXB 3 times per day
Qatar have a daily schedule to Perth
Etihad are introducting a daily service to Perth in July this year.
Emirates are waiting for Perth Airport to get their @#$% together so it can bring the A380 to Perth

Qantas fleet is a disgrace compared to it's competitors. The Boeing Triple 7 is the workhorse of the top ten airlines in the world. That Qantas doesn't have 1 beggars belief. It's still using 30 year old Boeing 767's and 747's, as stated before, have a high fuel consumption and high maintenance costs.

One last point. How can Qantas remain competitive when the average cost of it's employees is $92,000 compared to $46,000 for Emirates?

[cheap]

Virgin has posted a nearly $90 million loss. This is another aviation race to the bottom.

Joyce does says Virgin is using loss leader tactics (funded by the overseas owners and their deep pockets). There may be some truth to this, interesting to see how deep the pockets really are and their toleration to loosing huge sums of money.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

How can Qantas remain competitive when the average cost of it's employees is $92,000 compared to $46,000 for Emirates?

Because. Umm. Australia. Entitled!!

[blackwasp]

well things come home to roost ! don't they? when ansett was going bust , singapore airlines came in with a last gasp lifeline to save the airline. what did qantas and the government do? they blocked it and the rest is history. sorry to say but **** qantas!

[cheap]

I didn't t know Larry Pickering was a member of the forum, or does he use the forum as a sounding board?

His latest ramblings are very similar to what some of us have been saying .... go figure

http://pickeringpost.com/story/lepre...don-t-mix/2843

[MITCHAY]

And to top off the week for QANTAS, a 747 and a A380 have had a bingle at LAX.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/busi...228-33r3w.html

[Franco Cozzo]

I like the opening paragraph:

A Qantas A380 A380 superjumbos has collided with another of the airline's Boeing 747-400 jumbos at Los Angeles International Airport

WOW QANTAS FIRST ACCIDENT! HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED?!

In reality its like you gutter rashed one of your wheels and damaged the front bumper.

Collided, lol.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

And to top off the week for QANTAS, a 747 and a A380 have had a bingle at LAX.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/busi...228-33r3w.html

A little sensationalist don't you think ? (not a journalist are you)

The actual article says...... The incident occurred at 9pm local time (4pm AEST time) on Thursday while the aircraft were being towed out of a hangar.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I like the opening paragraph:

A Qantas A380 A380 superjumbos has collided with another of the airline's Boeing 747-400 jumbos at Los Angeles International Airport

WOW QANTAS FIRST ACCIDENT! HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED?!

In reality its like you gutter rashed one of your wheels and damaged the front bumper.

Collided, lol.

Yes pretty dramatic. I thought it was serious until you get past the headlines :

Still not good considering both will be out for repairs for however long and one of which being the A380 where there only a handful of them.

Plus putting the passengers up for the night could cost a pretty penny.

[gtfpv]

i'm starting to think liberal agendas are right . too many entitlements have sent the country broke . i think it's time to can any penalty rates , and lower the base salaries of our people . get rid of welfare and have some tent cities . too many people can afford to rent homes and even own or have a mortgage here . if it isnt too late ( which i doubt ) the unions kept it too good for too long . i hope we can retain some sort of industry and increase our homeless , and get rid of welfare . that way the poor will die off and the lower 10 million aussies will atleast have food for the day . damn unions . they ruined everything

[cheap]

DEMAND ??? FFS you'd be right to think Arthur Scargill had came out of retirement and was running the union circus, some people might remember how well Arthur's militant strategy worked last time, the unions clearly haven't learnt a thing.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1226840561494

Unions demand government intervention on Qantas


UNIONS have emerged from crisis talks with Qantas to claim chief executive Alan Joyce has “no strategy” to revive the national carrier.

Speaking outside the meeting, ACTU secretary Dave Oliver urged the company to commission an independent audit to find efficiencies in the airline’s operation, insisting management account for the figure of 5000 jobs to be cut.

“We’re not suggesting strike action at this stage, but what we are saying is we will be fighting for every job,” he said.

The parties are expected to meet again next week.

Transport Workers’ Union national secretary Tony Sheldon demanded government intervention, saying Qantas “hasn’t got the executive capacity to turn around” the airline’s fortunes.

“This board and executive team … have paid themselves an 82 per cent wage increase since 2010. They’ve turned around and paid no money back in dividends to shareholders. They’ve slashed jobs, and slashing more jobs, and they haven’t got a strategy for the future,” Mr Sheldon said.

“The company … doesn’t need to follow Joe Hockey’s demand to crush the living standards and take-home pays of decent hardworking Australians; it needs a company that has a strategy for the future based on productivity, efficiency and consultation.

“It worked prior to this board taking control; it’s only failed since this board has put in these sorts of strategies that are bleeding this company dry.”

Mr Sheldon demanded government intervention, saying the Keating government made a pact with taxpayers and shareholders that the company would remain in Australia and that its foreign ownership restrictions would remain in place.

Qantas has announced that 5000 jobs will be cut to meet a $2 billion cost savings target.

As well as cutting jobs, retiring old planes, slashing capital spending and axing some routes, Qantas has asked staff across the company to take a wage freeze.

Mr Oliver earlier said: “One thing that we will suggest is agreeing to a review, where we can bring in some outside expertise to have a look at the full operation of the airline ... and see where we can get cost savings.’’

Earlier, Mr Joyce cautioned unions against any industrial action which would only add “oil to the fire’’.

Unions and employees should lock arms with management and the federal government to find a solution to the carrier’s woes and ``fight for a fair go’’ for Qantas.

“We need this to be resolved and we need this to be resolved soon,’’ Mr Joyce told ABC radio.

Mr Joyce said the government recognised there was a “distortion’’ in the airline market and it was working on a deal to help the carrier.

Facing calls for his resignation, Mr Joyce said the company had been profitable for most of his period as CEO.

“I believe I’m the man the board believes in, and the man the shareholders believe,’’ he said.

“If that changes ... they have absolute autonomy to determine who leads the company.’’

[Franco Cozzo]

Sounds like the unions are actually attempting to save jobs and damn right the Government should do something about this, it is one of our Australian icons.

[NX74205]

What's the point in saving jobs if they can't save the airline? I don't understand why Labor and the Greens are blocking the repeal of the Qantas Sale Act. It's almost as if they WANT Qantas to die. QF needs investment, wherever it may come from.

[csv8]

Deleted

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by NX74205

What's the point in saving jobs if they can't save the airline? I don't understand why Labor and the Greens are blocking the repeal of the Qantas Sale Act. It's almost as if they WANT Qantas to die. QF needs investment, wherever it may come from.

The Qantas sale act has been in place for 22 years but now all of a sudden it has to go?
IT seems Joyce was put in the job to make Qantas run like jetstar and to get rid of the sale act.
I do think though that if the government keep the Qantas sale act in place (which it should) they should provide assistance to them somehow. This is what happens when governments sell off public assets for short term gain.

[BHDOGS]

Naw this is everyone else's fault but the managements of qantas dam those customers shareholders governments unions workers there all to greedy however will Joyce get his million dollar golden hand shake

[robertjp]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Naw this is everyone else's fault but the managements of qantas dam those customers shareholders governments unions workers there all to greedy however will Joyce get his million dollar golden hand shake

Can we make it a lead parachute, gold is just as heavy by the way.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by NX74205

What's the point in saving jobs if they can't save the airline? I don't understand why Labor and the Greens are blocking the repeal of the Qantas Sale Act. It's almost as if they WANT Qantas to die. QF needs investment, wherever it may come from.

What I want to know is how the union is going to help the 5000 workers who will lose their jobs. Let's see just how good the union will be for Qantas, Toyota, Holden and Ford workers, to name a few.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

What I want to know is how the union is going to help the 5000 workers who will lose their jobs. Let's see just how good the union will be for Qantas, Toyota, Holden and Ford workers, to name a few.

the very word union . means (a collective of people) -more than one .
the union organisation . is only a management committee providing legal representation of a (collective of people) THE PEOPLE ARE THE UNION .
UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL . so many uneducated people in this country now who somehow have lost the pricipal of how to DEMAND ! WIN negotiate . I SWEAR someone must of changed our DNA not so long ago , probably when the calculator came about .

[cheap]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

the very word union . means (a collective of people) -more than one .
the union organisation . is only a management committee providing legal representation of a (collective of people) THE PEOPLE ARE THE UNION .
UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL . so many uneducated people in this country now who somehow have lost the pricipal of how to DEMAND ! WIN negotiate . I SWEAR someone must of changed our DNA not so long ago , probably when the calculator came about .

Next we will hear that the unions are just a grown up version of the boy scouts. They are so misunderstood

This is a sample of 6 months of their "collectivism at work"

The outlined events occurred between 13 April 2011 and 29 October 2011

• Union (ALAEA) notifies Qantas of protected industrial action in the form of a one hour stoppage at all Australian ports between 8 am and 9 am;
  
• A single employee, the president of ALAEA, engages in a one hour stoppage;
  
• ALAEA notifies Qantas of protected industrial action in the form of indefinite overtime bans and 2 hour stoppages between 1 am and midday in Melbourne;
• Ditto Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide/Darwin on successive days;
  
• ALAEA notifies Qantas of one minute work stoppage for 15 July 2011, overtime bans and a limitation on how work is customarily performed;
  
• AIPA notifies Qantas of protected industrial action by long haul pilots in the form of bans on complying with Qantas’ in-flight announcement policy and performing work in a manner different from that which is customarily performed;
  
• AIPA notifies Qantas of protected industrial action by two long haul pilots in the form of two minute work stoppages;
  
• Pilots start making AIPA endorsed passenger announcements;
  
• One pilot implemented a ban on working days off;
  
• One pilot engages in two, two minute stoppages;
  
• NUW notifies Qantas of national wide 24 hour stoppages;
  
• ALAEA notifies Qantas of one hour stoppages each weekday from 25 August to 16 December;
  
• ALAEA notifies Qantas of protected industrial action in the form of weekend overtime bans;
  
• TWU notifies Qantas of 4 hour stoppages in all mainland cites and higher duties ban of 48 hours duration;
  
• ALAEA notifies Qantas of full shift stoppages at the heavy maintenance facilities (Avalon and Brisbane)
  
• TWU notifies Qantas of one hour stoppages at 8 am at all major airports;
  
• ALEA calls off four hour work stoppages due to start later that day;
  
• TWU members (baggage handlers and ground crew) engage in two, two hour work stoppages in Melbourne and Sydney;
• TWU lodges an application with Fair Work Australia for a good faith bargaining order, claiming Qantas breached good faith obligations by notifying TWU members through a ‘late-night post delivery’ that Qantas would not accept part performance;
  
• TWU rejects Qantas offer of 3% pa pay increase, a 1% increase to superannuation, no forced redundancies for the life of the agreement;
  
• TWU notifies Qantas (date of AGM) of a one-hour stop-work meeting;
• Ground staff participate in nationwide one hour stop meeting.

So tell me again how cute and lovely the unions are...

http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/02/28...as-up-against/

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

What I want to know is how the union is going to help the 5000 workers who will lose their jobs. Let's see just how good the union will be for Qantas, Toyota, Holden and Ford workers, to name a few.

Ford are doing absolutely nothing to help us workers re-train, they are blocking us at every point, and the union is the only ones putting the effort in to get what we have been promised. The company could not give 2 stuffs what happens to the employees when they are let go. The government agencies aren't much better, promise the world and deliver s***. I see the union stewards demanding the employees get what has been promised and the company doing nothing but pretending to give a stuff when they clearly don't. Ford will just give the workers the impression they will help them when all they care about is getting out of manufacturing as cheaply as possible, and so they protect their public image to sell their imports in a few years.

But yeah, bash the evil unions, everyone knows how bad they are don't they.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by ray38l

The Qantas sale act has been in place for 22 years but now all of a sudden it has to go?
IT seems Joyce was put in the job to make Qantas run like jetstar and to get rid of the sale act.
I do think though that if the government keep the Qantas sale act in place (which it should) they should provide assistance to them somehow. This is what happens when governments sell off public assets for short term gain.

22 years ago, Emirates were a small regional middle-eastern airline that hardly anyone in Australia have heard of. 22 years ago, Qantas had roughly 40% of all outbound international traffic, now it's more like 15%. 22 years ago, the price of fuel was less than half of what it is today.

22 years ago, the Qantas Sale Act made perfect sense. Now, it is no longer viable to have Qantas compete with one arm tied behind its back, with the average wage about double that of Emirates', and no ability to seek investors from outside Australia as a result of an anachronistic Act made at a time when Qantas were prosperous. It's not the time to argue over whose fault it is that Qantas are in a position they are in now, but rather we should be focusing on saving the company as the top priority. It is because Qantas is an Australian icon that it must survive, whatever the cost. If that means getting rid of the Qantas Sale Act, tough.