Delayed: Ford's 4-cylinder Falcon

[Brazen]

I kind of wish Ford chose a different approach to Ecoboost Falcon, as in they tried to launch it with its own identity

Originally Posted by Brazen's Pretend Drive Article

Ford today announced a new 4 cylinder car to be built at its Victorian plant, based on impressive EcoBoost technology, the 4 cylinder car will utilise direct injection and turbo technology to deliver class-leading power and economy.

To be based on the Rear Wheel Drive Falcon the car codenamed 'Blue Heeler' is expected to begin production in 2012.

Drive understands the vehicle to be basically a Falcon with different bumpers and lights and other small differences to seperate it from the well-established large car nameplate. The new car will be to Falcon much like the Camry is to Aurion - which are essentially the same car apart from minor cosmetic tweaks and a different engine.

Ford Spokesperson Sinead McAlry said the new vehicle will "Cater to buyers used to the power and space of a large Aussie rear-wheel drive sedan, yet who want the economy of a mid-sized 4 cylinder".

Ford also announced a competition to name the new car, Drive was quick to suggest Cortina to Sinead McAlry, but it appears to be already ruled out "Whilst Cortina was a great car, we want to move away from the past as we believe this new vehicle is a total shift away from what people expect in the market today"

An anonymous Ford insider has suggested this new 4 cylinder car will be used to chase fleet and 4 cylinder buyers who would of traditionally dismissed buying a Falcon because of its 'gas guzzling' reputation. The insider also stated that Falcon will drop the XT variant and focus more on sports and luxury buyers. With Falcon sales at all time low there is a lot of pressure on this 4 cylinder variant to succeed. Drive will have more details on this new car when Ford's technical roll-out begins in May.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah it was more a 'perfect world' hypothesis. Different fascias and name to Falcon to seperate it a bit kinda like Camry and Aurion.

Hey that's my idea! I've said before that they only need to change the front and rear plastics (like Toyota do) to acheive a different look. Add EBI4T and call it a Ford Fusion. For export all over the Asia Pacific.

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Nope !

E265 is the whole Territory program from 2004 believe it or not !!!

"Yeah but FG is E240 ! "

Suck it up ! Them's the facts !

I thought the FG was E249...

Originally Posted by jpd80

A strong rumor that all of these plans have now been scrubbed, I-6 is now losing internal support in favor of "One Ford" initiatives.

FoA's choice is between RWD Falcon sharing Ford US engines
or co-developing a large car with USA off next Fusion/Mondeo.

Well I think we all know the I6's days are numbered - this is why Burela chased extra work for the casting plant, no? Consider the I6 the sacrificial lamb in order to keep making RWD Fords in this country.

[XR Martin]

Drop the NA6 and only use the Ecoboost I4 and I6T

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah the Ecoboost should be a base engine in the Falcon, imagine a 4 cylinder Falcon at $29,990 driveaway - up against Camry and other mid-sized cars. Heck people are paying $32,000-$33,000 for Cruze CDX diesels so a 4 cylinder Falcon could even target some small cars.

I didn't mean have the Ecoboost as a base engine, I meant have it as the only engine (plus Coyote/Miami for the performance models) to replace the I6 entirely.

Its not going to happen but I just thought I would throw it out there. It just seems Ford need to think out of the box to revive Falcon.

Originally Posted by jpd80

A strong rumor that all of these plans have now been scrubbed,
I-6 is now losing internal support in favor of "One Ford" initiatives.

FoA's choice is between RWD Falcon sharing Ford US engines
or co-developing a large car with USA off next Fusion/Mondeo.

I am guessing the US engines would be the V6? How would the 2.0L Ecoboost and Coyote/Miami as the only engine choices in Falcon go - assuming the Ecoboost was wound up to around 200kw which IIRC was mentioned earlier on in the Ecoboost development.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I am guessing the US engines would be the V6? How would the 2.0L Ecoboost and Coyote/Miami as the only engine choices in Falcon go - assuming the Ecoboost was wound up to around 200kw which IIRC was mentioned earlier on in the Ecoboost development.

I don't think an Ecoboost-only Falcon range would fly. There are some buyers who would still demand a 6 cylinder regardless of what happens to fuel prices.

We would probably get an evolved version of the Duratec 37 V6 (3.7 litre Ti-VCT 305 hp (227 kW) at 6500 rpm and 280 lb·ft (380 N·m) at 4250 rpm) and of course the Coyoteee for the FPV's. That V6 would also being the latest corporate tech from Ford such as Euro 5 compliance, DI, Ti-VCT etc.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Drop the NA6 and only use the Ecoboost I4 and I6T

wash your mouth out with soap

[FPV GTHO]

Give it enough time and everyone will be running smaller, turbo engines through the whole lineup. It could be 5-10 years time, it could be 30 years time.

[jpd80]

Ecoboost Mondeo is a provocative move designed to draw out buyers who
like a vehicle similar in size to Falcon, wants better fuel economy but is not
looking for a diesel slugger, they still like the feel of top end horsepower.

It's an interesting move ahead of the Ecoboost Falcon, some saying it will be
the trailblazer refocusing buyers on smaller but still powerful efficient engines.

If you could package a largish sedan in a 1550-1600 Kg vehicle then perhaps
all thoughts of needing a large V6 could be displaced by the Ecoboost 2.0.

We just don't know how buyers will respond to a car with this package but,
if fuel prices keeps rising then perhaps Ford has the right car for the time
regardless of whether it's FWD or RWD....

[midnightXR6]

I for one hope they bring in the ecoboost Falcon as it opens it up for the export market and would make it seriously easy to import other falcons if they already sold a 4cyl model in the UK.

I would even consider the 4cyl as a work vehicle.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I thought the FG was E249...

No it was / is E240

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Give it enough time and everyone will be running smaller, turbo engines through the whole lineup. It could be 5-10 years time, it could be 30 years time.

Doubt it. I think the internal combustion engine will be no more in 30 years time.

I would compromise the loss of the NA I6 in favour of keeping the I6T. Seriously though, in real world figures I doubt the EB will be that different in economy compared to the I6T - especially when it will be lugging around 1700kg. Makes you wonder why bother at all.

Improvements to the I6 such as an alloy block, direct injection etc would be better and save jobs. It's just like BMW with their 4 cylinders. Majority of buyers still prefer the 6 cylinder version of the 3 series.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Doubt it. I think the internal combustion engine will be no more in 30 years time.

I would compromise the loss of the NA I6 in favour of keeping the I6T. Seriously though, in real world figures I doubt the EB will be that different in economy compared to the I6T - especially when it will be lugging around 1700kg. Makes you wonder why bother at all.

Ecoboost I-4 Falcon will be at least 50 Kg lighter than its big brother and
possibly more like 80 Kg with further reductions in weight throughout the body.

Improvements to the I6 such as an alloy block, direct injection etc would be better and save jobs.

The I-6 is being canceled in four years time and Geelong engine closed so
there is no way these features are going to be put in a terminating engine.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Doubt it. I think the internal combustion engine will be no more in 30 years time.

I would compromise the loss of the NA I6 in favour of keeping the I6T. Seriously though, in real world figures I doubt the EB will be that different in economy compared to the I6T - especially when it will be lugging around 1700kg. Makes you wonder why bother at all.

Improvements to the I6 such as an alloy block, direct injection etc would be better and save jobs. It's just like BMW with their 4 cylinders. Majority of buyers still prefer the 6 cylinder version of the 3 series.

BMW 4's are NA and lack the torque the EB engine will have, it'd be better to get the 6 in the BMW.

The EB will be better in terms of economy compared to the I6(T). It will weigh less, will reduce overall mass of the vehicle and naturally require less fuel during a standard city drive. Idling at the lights I can gurantee the 2.0 will use less than the 4.0. The EB will have the torque and power to move the Falcon when combined with either the ZF 6sp or equivalent Ford transmission. This will also translate to HWY work.

The EB engine is a significant technological step up for the Falcon, it is with great pity Ford have pushed back the release date.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Seriously though, in real world figures I doubt the EB will be that different in economy compared to the I6T - especially when it will be lugging around 1700kg. Makes you wonder why bother at all.

Have you ever driven an I6T over a long period of time?? I know I've owned my for 15 months an a I6T is NOT economcial.. It drinks like a V8!!

[chevypower]

@Bobman, do you really believe the 4 cyl EcoBoost is going to consume as much fuel as the 4.0 I6T? Consider for a moment, that the F150 weighs 3 tonnes, and has the aerodynamics of a house, it gets 16-22mpg (19 combined / 12.4 L/100km) with the 3.5L V6 EcoBoost, while running regular unleaded. The Territory Turbo, while only weighing 2 tonnes, and is much more aerodynamic than the F150, averages 14.2L/100km!

I think it's pretty safe to say that the smaller 4cyl EcoBoost in the Falcon will be much more efficient than the I6T in the same vehicle. Even the V6 EcoBoost will thrash the I6T on economy.

[FGII-XR6]

where did you get this from? there was a huge investment in getting the I6 euro4 compliant and the federal government kicked some in to underpin the long term viability of this engine so I feel the I6 bell be here for some time yet
what annoys me is when people quote their opinions as fact (I am assuming you are not a well placed Ford executive who knows whats happening)

Originally Posted by jpd80

The I-6 is being canceled in four years time and Geelong engine closed so
there is no way these features are going to be put in a terminating engine.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

where did you get this from? there was a huge investment in getting the I6 euro4 compliant and the federal government kicked some in to underpin the long term viability of this engine so I feel the I6 bell be here for some time yet
what annoys me is when people quote their opinions as fact (I am assuming you are not a well placed Ford executive who knows whats happening)

It really is too far out tell but if One Ford is implemented (as it should) then I would say he is right. Also, if we still have a large rwd by then it would be designed for the global market, which means V6, not I-6, as the former is cheaper and more advanced.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

where did you get this from? there was a huge investment in getting the I6 euro4 compliant and the federal government kicked some in to underpin the long term viability of this engine so I feel the I6 bell be here for some time yet

Probably inappropriate of me to speak in absolute terms when Ford has not made any final decision.

Euro 4 a Huge Investment indeed....
Euro 4 compliance cost $21 million, the federal government chipped in $13 million
and the Victorian government gave an undisclosed amount (my best guess $3 million)
So, you see Ford didn't really contribute that much in terms of paying for Euro 4..

I am assuming you are not a well placed Ford executive who knows whats happening

Some people are not permitted to speak to the press or on these forums...
If I happen to prod a few egos then I'm sorry but sometimes we need a reality check
to wake us out of assumption that the Falcon will remain unchanged beyond 2015.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Well I think we all know the I6's days are numbered - this is why Burela chased extra work for the casting plant, no? Consider the I6 the sacrificial lamb in order to keep making RWD Fords in this country.

But it's the only engine that runs LPG and that's important in this country... where autogas is widely available.

I think they need to keep running with the I6, and perhaps only sell it in the asia pacific market. Or if the rumour that Lincoln once again wants a new RWD car. Sell it as a premium engine in the Lincoln.

It's a great engine. Surely Ford must see that. An NA Falcon I6 is more fuel efficient than a Taurus NA V6.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by chevypower

@Bobman, do you really believe the 4 cyl EcoBoost is going to consume as much fuel as the 4.0 I6T? Consider for a moment, that the F150 weighs 3 tonnes, and has the aerodynamics of a house, it gets 16-22mpg (19 combined / 12.4 L/100km) with the 3.5L V6 EcoBoost, while running regular unleaded. The Territory Turbo, while only weighing 2 tonnes, and is much more aerodynamic than the F150, averages 14.2L/100km!

I think it's pretty safe to say that the smaller 4cyl EcoBoost in the Falcon will be much more efficient than the I6T in the same vehicle. Even the V6 EcoBoost will thrash the I6T on economy.

That's because the I6T is power tuned not economy tuned.

[JPFS1]

21 million is not huge investment for an auto manufacturer, 250 million is not huge investment either. Sure it is allot of money, but it's certainly no indication of ongoing longevity based on numbers alone. When you consider how much it costs to change a die, a mould, to cut a new hole out in the BIW when it wasn't there before, it puts it into perspective.

If you think of the alternatives and the outcomes if that investment was not there, then you have to ask where would Ford be today? or next year? or 2015-16? The commitment had been made to the platform for a certain period of time/cycle, the investment had to made due to regulations and consumer expectations for the product to continue on its expected life cycle.

It's not all doom and gloom though, that's not my intention. Just wanting to put some perspective on the numbers and that it's not as simple as looking at what they've done today to mean that tomorrow is a certainty. There are many reasons why tomorrow could be a certainty, and many reasons why it may not. Clear as mud....?

[Buntz]

We can look at the why though. To protect the workers and the suppliers. Ford uses the government at times. And vice versa. And they will threaten, or hold Ford over a barrel in some way to maintain manufacturing, and as manyjobs here as possible. The fact the plant now make brake parts and other stuff for Bosch is a good indication to Ford making sure they keep jobs, use local suppliers, and keep the hand that feeds them happy.

Even if we do lose I6. I'd always choose RWD locally built Falcon over it anyday. And besides that. They'd probably retool for the V6 manufacture.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I would compromise the loss of the NA I6 in favour of keeping the I6T.

Do you want to pay several times more for the engine to achieve that?

Seriously though, in real world figures I doubt the EB will be that different in economy compared to the I6T - especially when it will be lugging around 1700kg. Makes you wonder why bother at all.

I'm going to assume youre talking about the V6 Ecoboost, but compared to the I6T its still a smaller engine with more technology from the fuel system and the turbo's. Whether the V6 alone would be lighter than the I6 as well, i dont know, but i'd say if they designed the car around each the shorter V6 car would end up lighter.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I'm going to assume youre talking about the V6 Ecoboost, but compared to the I6T its still a smaller engine with more technology from the fuel system and the turbo's. Whether the V6 alone would be lighter than the I6 as well, i dont know, but i'd say if they designed the car around each the shorter V6 car would end up lighter.

Like the 1800 odd KG entry level Taurus you mean?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

21 million is not huge investment for an auto manufacturer, 250 million is not huge investment either. Sure it is allot of money, but it's certainly no indication of ongoing longevity based on numbers alone. When you consider how much it costs to change a die, a mould, to cut a new hole out in the BIW when it wasn't there before, it puts it into perspective.

If you think of the alternatives and the outcomes if that investment was not there, then you have to ask where would Ford be today? or next year? or 2015-16? The commitment had been made to the platform for a certain period of time/cycle, the investment had to made due to regulations and consumer expectations for the product to continue on its expected life cycle.

It's not all doom and gloom though, that's not my intention. Just wanting to put some perspective on the numbers and that it's not as simple as looking at what they've done today to mean that tomorrow is a certainty. There are many reasons why tomorrow could be a certainty, and many reasons why it may not. Clear as mud....?

Paraphrasing: The future is not defined.
Possibly because so much of the decisions are weighted on what the market wants to buy
and if consumers are sending Ford mixed messages, how are they supposed to proceed?
One way would be to test a theory regarding existing product filling gaps, be that
Falcon or Mondeo, vehicles that are relatively inexpensive to develop or source.

It must be so darned hard to think about what people will want in 5-10 years time,
let alone the current turmoil in sales......

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It must be so darned hard to think about what people will want in 5-10 years time,
let alone the current turmoil in sales......

The current turmoil in sales is no exported Falcon. Mondeo is exported here. And Ford sold nearly twice the amount of Falcons. That's great for Mondeo because it's a global car (almost). But it does show what Falcon means to Australia despite having less gubbins than mondeo

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

The current turmoil in sales is no exported Falcon.

Even though Holden has exported the Commodore, their losses have been more than double Ford Austraila's,
I think that's a compelling reason for not seeking export markets in either LHD or RHD.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Even though Holden has exported the Commodore, their losses have been more than double Ford Austraila's,
I think that's a compelling reason for not seeking export markets in either LHD or RHD.

They also spent more than double developing the bloody thing. GM isn't the best run organisation either.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

They also spent more than double developing the bloody thing. GM isn't the best run organisation either.

A mistake Ford were careful to avoid, North America said no thanks to a RWD sedan
and contrary to internet scuttle butt, there are no immediate plans for a RWD Lincoln sedan.

[jpd80]

Re Ecoboost Falcon,
I see Ford has a competition to name the new car, as journalists flashed
back with the obvious, "Cortina" a resounding no came from Sinead's lips.