Cops now using HSV E3 Clubsports - WTF???

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I am sorry but a can not see how considering our last run of Ford F350 ambulances that had a much more expensive fit out (complete pod instead of a interior module) cost the service $160k.

I was at workshops the other day and checked out the mock up of the new Mercedes Sprinter 519 dual stretcher unit and was told they are expecting a final cost to be about $200k, these have to have a complete pod constructed as they are fitted to a cab chassis.

By the way, which LED's are you referring too, the light bar complete or the individual light units such as mounted on the bonnet and vehicle sides?

Any way, back on topic I highly doubt a cop car would hit $150k when based on a XR6T.

Yep, thats what our boss says, $250K for the thing by the time it rolls out the door as a fully decked out ambulance (this includes all stock though, all your medical stuff, purchase cost of the van, interior fitout, comms etc), I'm talking about the LEDs mounted to the bonnet and grille and the single units elsewhere on the wing etc. Not sure on the LED lightbar.

Yeah, did you see the Tasmania special operations ambulance? Has the rear air suspension, electric stretcher base, carries a 500kg person etc? Cab chassis Sprinter with dually rear.

[FPV091]

The NSW HWP cars cost between $90K and $100K when kitted up. Previosuly, it was only Ford, Holden and FPV that had trade contracts to supply the HWP however, according to the OP they now seem to have sorted a contract with HSV.

This car may be a promotional vehicle much like the EVO, Lotus, that were previously used in NSW. Unless we see more on the road we can assume this is a promotional vehicle. Otherwise HSV now supply the HWP cars along with FPV, Ford and Holden.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yep, thats what our boss says, $250K for the thing by the time it rolls out the door as a fully decked out ambulance (this includes all stock though, all your medical stuff, purchase cost of the van, interior fitout, comms etc), I'm talking about the LEDs mounted to the bonnet and grille and the single units elsewhere on the wing etc. Not sure on the LED lightbar.

Yeah, did you see the Tasmania special operations ambulance? Has the rear air suspension, electric stretcher base, carries a 500kg person etc? Cab chassis Sprinter with dually rear.

Ok, that explains some of it because I was referring only to the vehicle as delivered to the station, no portable kits, stock or cardiac monitor (probably about $50k worth all up). Although my figure may be a little low due to misinformation, the cost would not get to $250k. I know with our budget increase in the last 3 years for the number of new cars we got, they would not have cost anywhere near $250k each, not with the number of new vehicles we got. I imagine the light bar is worth a pretty penny.

All that really is splitting hairs, I am sure you can agree that our vehicle would be significantly more expensive than a police sedan fit out.

The Tas special operations ambulance would be the same as our STRU units, the new dual stretcher units we are getting are different again.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 5.0

Who cares if it's a waste of taxpayer money? whether they buy a few HSV's and FPV's and support the Aus industry or bail out the company later on either way we're still handing money to car manufactures.

If you knew how much **** cops have to put up with, how many are dicked over by management then you'd know a little moral boost goes a very very long way and can make a big difference in the life of someone struggling.

what do you mean who cares if its a waste of tax payers money....anyone who works hard and pays taxes and if your suggesting that cops need to be rewarded with hsvs as oppossed to xr6t with bigger brakes.....is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Your obviously oblivious to the real world and some of the jobs sthe majority of people have to do in society....your an idiot for thinking that.


And any hoon in his right mind would know if he cant out run a hsv then he sure as well wont be able to outrun that XR6T over there with the big wheels and brakes some people really dont get it.

i still want to hear any legible reason why they should have a 90k v a 50k car.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Yep, so do the army here at Enoggera, two complete units (same spec as NSW ambulance, based on Sprinter 316). Expensive toys to have considering if they have to transport a patient in an emergency they call us anyway (I have done a number of emergency transfers from the army hospital to RBH).

I have seen Civvy Ambulances turn up at bases just like Civvy Cops dealing with protesters at gates etc, it makes me wonder what the military guys are there for.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by b2tf

I have seen Civvy Ambulances turn up at bases just like Civvy Cops dealing with protesters at gates etc, it makes me wonder what the military guys are there for.

Going off topic here... but to clarifiy.

Protestors outside a base are the responsibility of Police.
MPs or Sercurity Police can only arrest you within the confines of the base.
(so can the average soldier or ADF member for that matter).

Also Police will enter a base if they have been requested to do so, as its easier to deal with drugs etc by handing ADF members to police in certain circumstances or they are wanted by police for something they did off duty etc..

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by b2tf

I have seen Civvy Ambulances turn up at bases just like Civvy Cops dealing with protesters at gates etc, it makes me wonder what the military guys are there for.

Military police have no power over civilians unless they are on defence property and even then they are only allowed to detain them until state police turn up.

As for the ambulances, army ambulances are not allowed to operate under emergency conditions on public roads unless the driver has done the emergency vehicle operators course. Even those that have done the course, have never actually driven under emergency conditions on public roads. I would not want them driving under emergency conditions on the road, inexperience and adrenaline do not mix well.

Funny thing happened when I got out of the full time and went to the Army Reserves. I had a army ambulance license which they decided I could not retain until I did the emergency driving course. As I had no real need for the license, I am a full time paramedic and I have more code 1 driving experience than any of the military police instructors, I told them to stick it. I have much better things to do with my days off, not going to spend my limited available time on pointless courses.

[RAPID_BA]

As now that means we cant buy a used hsv as we have to first eliminate the cop specials (thrashed).

I dont think cops should get these cars, give them an omega, special order v8, set of chaser rims, fe2 suspension and air cond if they are nice. Thats what they need. Its absurd wasting that coin on cop cars which will get destroyed.

[MITCHAY]

I honestly don't see any point in getting HSV/FPVs over the Holden/Ford models but I'm not a cop and would not know.

Aren't they supposed to call off most chases after a certain speed anyway in which the difference is pretty moot?

I'm all for brake and suspension upgrades which can only be good though.

Having said that, just having them around might deter some idiot from running because of pure presence. They are pretty intimidating when they are up your clacker

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Having said that, just having them around might deter some idiot from running because of pure presence. They are pretty intimidating when they are up your clacker

Maybe so, or the fact that the cop car is a clubbie may entice said idiot into taking up the challenge.

[Muscle_Inc]

This is a interesting thread thats been raised, as my job description is having to travel on the road quite abit and as i venture thru the western suburbs in particular i encounter on some level police during the usual patrols of the roads, RBT's and so forth.

Without a doubt there are many undercover SS commodores, XR6T's and especially heavy presence of undercover typhoons! As i like to observe as they do make their presence felt and i see some things that make them a little unique..
for e.g upgraded brakes, different wheel patterns, using e10 fuel, lowered ride height, variety of hero colours, positioning of lights etc.

I personally havent witnessed HSV models disguised as undercover cop cars but my opinion is, its a bit of a overkill. The implementation of ''safety cameras'' on nearly every intersection, stationary unmarked ford territories with cameras on board, conducting random speed checks and the list is endless i think they serve no greater purpose in sending a clear message to motorist ''slow down'' or ill catch you in your camry with my 450hp clubbie.....

[RAPID_BA]

Maybe the cops message is speed and we will club you (using a clubbie)

I was at the lights a few minutes ago and there was a f6 undercover copper in it, looking aroundveverywhere like he hadnt had a meal in days

Whether they use ss or clubbie or f6 doesnt the boxhead and moustache give them away?

[aualright]

Police shouldn't do high speed chases, just as they shouldn't fire their pistols in a crowd. Why they need a HSV, who knows.

I don't see how an unmarked car will change people's behavhiour on the road. Seeing a stock cop car has much more of an effect on my driving behaviour.

Kind of like a run of the mill sales rep wanting an M3 when a Mondeo wagon would suffice.

****

[ray38l]

I don't see the problem. If they use fpv's then i see no reason why they shouldn't use hsv's.
Seems common sense to me and anyone who has a problem with it is hypocritical

[b2tf]

I'm going to vary the discussion a little bit and ask a question:-

What's your definition of a 'proper' police car? Talking marked ones here.

What colour should it be?
What powertrain should it have?
Any other upgrades you feel appropriate?

I remember the outcry when NSW HWP started using more and more different coloured cars here instead of the standard white SS/XR's. Personally I'm all for HWP cars being different colours (except there is a Dejavu XR6T here and buggered if I can spot it every time!) but I know a lot of people who think they should be just white.

I dont have a problem with powertrains - I think XR6T is most appropriate for the job - and thats not brand bias talking.

Having owned an FG I know the brakes are wofeul and there's no way I'd be confident punting one at high speed chasing after someone. So I'm ok with the extra cost of Brembos on them.

Other than that I cant think of anything else a police car should or should not have in terms of the car's actual ability and features?

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by KNG-40L

Without a doubt there are many undercover SS commodores, XR6T's and especially heavy presence of undercover typhoons! As i like to observe as they do make their presence felt and i see some things that make them a little unique..
for e.g upgraded brakes, different wheel patterns, using e10 fuel, lowered ride height, variety of hero colours, positioning of lights etc.

This car makes a killin' on the NSW/QLD border ...

[b2tf]

One identical to that in Wagga HWP area now.

[FTE72]

I do not really care what they drive, as long as there are capable pursuit specialists driving the chasers and remain actively policing. I do not believe that"Safety Cameras" are active policing, or provide that visual deterrent which most will admit has a better impact on driver behaviour.
However, an XR6T with upgraded brakes as above should be enough car for the tasks asked of it.

[dimka100]

For all the people who think that a HSV or an FPV are a deterrent to people doing street racing or crazy stuff you are all wrong!
1. People who are involved in street racing or similar things race each other and not the cops, they literally do not care what the police have as they know that once they get caught on camera it really does not matter if they get away or not … the police will come knocking on the door.
2. Many people do not actually preserve the HSVs and FPVs to be fast cars at all, actually they laugh at cops for having these cars as they think their skylines are much much faster …
3. And lastly many people are just plain idiots. They will take 1980s rust box and try to find out its top speed before it falls apart into pieces … believe me cops will catch them even in 4 cylinder Falcons if they ever existed.

So far reading this thread I can see that many people agree that such expensive cars are a total waste of tax payers money as they offer no benefit to cops (from a tool of trade perspective) and significantly increase the running/servicing costs associated with the more expensive parts and brand image.

I’m yet to see someone actually post a real reason/fact why police require a HSV/FPV over a POV spec SS or XR6T with potentially better brakes as the sole upgrade.

Lastly even the need for an SS or XR6T is a very moot point at this stage since all police chases have now been reduced to a point where a NA XR6 or SV6 would do the job in the exact same manner while further reducing purchasing and running costs.

[Road Games]

My experience in these matters is they need a 5 sec 100km/hr car to accelerate out of the bushes in the right hand fast lane without getting collected..

Also for the point and squirt mentality they produce in carving up 5 or so cars to get to that maniac who was probably 11k's over in a 110 zone....

I was in the REPCO combo last week and the dark blue SS scared the ***** out of me , ripped out from behind the armco i heard the air box/zorst before i saw it and showered me with debris as he pulled ahead .... booked a van up the road ahead of me, i can only imagine something was flagged on the computer but c'mon ?

Seriously ??

[dimka100]

I thought that this is total NO NO …

I do not see this as safe driving by any stretch of imagination … pulling this quickly in front of somebody from a stand still on a highway is only going to cause car behind them to over react, smash the brakes or veer to the next lane and cause an accident. I personally do not see how this can be legally used by the police as an excuse to purchase a faster car …

Secondly the difference between the HSVs/FPVs and their cheaper V8/Turbo alternatives is like 0.2/0.3 of a second so in the bigger scheme of things it’s FA.

Originally Posted by DAZZLER351

My experience in these matters is they need a 5 sec 100km/hr car to accelerate out of the bushes in the right hand fast lane without getting collected..

Also for the point and squirt mentality they produce in carving up 5 or so cars to get to that maniac who was probably 11k's over in a 110 zone....

I was in the REPCO combo last week and the dark blue SS scared the ***** out of me , ripped out from behind the armco i heard the air box/zorst before i saw it and showered me with debris as he pulled ahead .... booked a van up the road ahead of me, i can only imagine something was flagged on the computer but c'mon ?

Seriously ??

[flappist]

Why do they need expensive Glocks and M4s surely bolt 22s are enough?

Why do they need encrypted radios, UHF CBs are great?

Why do they need big shiny police stations, can't they work out of a shed?

Why do they need speed cameras, would it not be more profitable just to send random invoices to everyone? (and be just as effective at road safety)

Why do they spend money on road safety advertising, surely it would be better to send undercover anti-car morons to rabidly push the speed camera propaganda on car enthusiast forums? (oh thats right, it looks like they started doing that a few months ago)


Who cares if they have HSVs?

Hmm....maybe it is an experiment to see what effect normal people driving them has...........

[Dave3911]

4 Pages all ready - based on one car sighted by one person.

Seriously guys, a little bit of perspective. No police force in the country has gone out and bought hundreds of cars to outfit their entire fleet with HSV's.... one forum member has seen one.

As has been pointed out numerous times. It is common for Police force's around the country to be given cars by manufacturers as promotional tools. Everything from Golf Carts, to Suzuki Swifts, to FPV/HSV's to SAABs, to Hummer's to 300C's etc. etc. the list goes on. All seen as marked/unmarked police vehicles in the last few years. All "given" free for use for a period of time.

Before we go off all half-cocked about our tax dollars, lets actually have something to go half-cocked about!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

As now that means we cant buy a used hsv as we have to first eliminate the cop specials (thrashed).

I dont think cops should get these cars, give them an omega, special order v8, set of chaser rims, fe2 suspension and air cond if they are nice. Thats what they need. Its absurd wasting that coin on cop cars which will get destroyed.

Give them that Chevrolet Caprice PPV, its a $35K Caprice with a stripped out interior and upgraded everything.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ray38l

I don't see the problem. If they use fpv's then i see no reason why they shouldn't use hsv's.
Seems common sense to me and anyone who has a problem with it is hypocritical

I fail to see how opposing the police having HSV's is hypocritical, I disagree that there is a need for them to have any car of the standard of any HSV or FPV. I disagree that there is any operational reason that makes the expense to the community worthwhile, it seems QLD police agrees as they do not use any HSV's or FPV's now, XR6T and SS seem to be acceptable for their HWP.

Also I do not hold any resentment or ill opinion towards the officers that operate them, half their luck and I hope they enjoy them. I just disagree with the senior officers and managers that selected the vehicle and bought it into service.

How is that opinion hypocritical?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

4 Pages all ready - based on one car sighted by one person.

Seriously guys, a little bit of perspective. No police force in the country has gone out and bought hundreds of cars to outfit their entire fleet with HSV's.... one forum member has seen one.

As has been pointed out numerous times. It is common for Police force's around the country to be given cars by manufacturers as promotional tools. Everything from Golf Carts, to Suzuki Swifts, to FPV/HSV's to SAABs, to Hummer's to 300C's etc. etc. the list goes on. All seen as marked/unmarked police vehicles in the last few years. All "given" free for use for a period of time.

Before we go off all half-cocked about our tax dollars, lets actually have something to go half-cocked about!

Good point, it would be good to know if it was purchased by the department or was it donated by HSV as a promotional vehicle. I mean the fact we are talking about it shows that it works from an advertising perspective.

Having said that, even if it turns out it is a one off vehicle that has been donated like the lotus elise was a few years ago, what is the big deal? There is no harm in us discussing the situation from a hypothetical point of view (step away from the poll button Flappist).

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I fail to see how opposing the police having HSV's is hypocritical, I disagree that there is a need for them to have any car of the standard of any HSV or FPV. I disagree that there is any operational reason that makes the expense to the community worthwhile, it seems QLD police agrees as they do not use any HSV's or FPV's now, XR6T and SS seem to be acceptable for their HWP.

Also I do not hold any resentment or ill opinion towards the officers that operate them, half their luck and I hope they enjoy them. I just disagree with the senior officers and managers that selected the vehicle and bought it into service.

How is that opinion hypocritical?

my problem with people complaining is that hwp have been using fpv's for a while now but i haven't seen many complaints about waste of money and not needed. As soon as one person supposedly saw a hwp clubsport there is 4 pages of discussion with most saying its a waste of money.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ray38l

my problem with people complaining is that hwp have been using fpv's for a while now but i haven't seen many complaints about waste of money and not needed. As soon as one person supposedly saw a hwp clubsport there is 4 pages of discussion with most saying its a waste of money.

Do a search under my user name and FPV police cars and you will see that I have long been an opponent to police having these vehicles, but I do see your point. Sometimes we have to accept that this forum will have an element of bias towards fords, if the OP had seen a GT 335, the tone from many members would be different, but not mine.

[Bobman]

The thing is, HWP cars are hardly seen these days anyway, but there is a lot of wastage in all government agencies and what people should be saying is: "Why can't this money be used on more police members or better facilities". Police cars are leased in Victoria, unsure what happens in other states.

Originally Posted by klawsterfobik

The reason that the police force don't use WRX's and EVO's is because they're too cramped by the time they get all their gear into them.

Police have used and do use WRXs and EVOs (though not that common). When the WRX gained popularity here in the late 1990s, Victoria Police were unable to catch up to some of them in pursuits, so purchased some themselves to use in the TOG (back then).

[flappist]

Originally Posted by fmc351

You have severe persecution issues. Do you check under your bed before you go to sleep, with a pistol under the pillow.

Well not so paranoid or vain that I think that a general remark must be about me. But thanks for reminding me, I had almost forgotten about the trolls that come and go running from forum to forum stirring up trouble and contributing nothing positive at all.