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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#61 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
Now that has changed to a hevily revamped Zeta...evolution rather than all new, mostly because the revenue just isn't there anymore. Pretty sure a quick search through the massive Holden reporting would find that but, Holden are re-known for page one headlines and statements followed later by page 53 retractions.. I wouldn't trust anything said by any motoring CEO atm, they just can't plan that far ahead.. Hence the back pedalling from Mark reuss: Quote:
Last edited by jpd80; 26-05-2012 at 05:30 PM. |
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#62 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
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6 years was supposed to be the top hat, not the platform. Zeta wouldve seen 12 years originally before heavy revision. Remember as well, Holden traditionally only held onto a model name for 2-3 years max, VF was thought to be launching 2008-9 as a MCA on the top hat.
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#63 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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#64 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
now they mention it's part of the $275 million co- investment including exports... Am I wrong in saying GM appears to be deliberately nebulus..vague in actual details and investment in VF? There could be a reason for that depending on the success or otherwise of exports... Gotta wonder when the story seems to change, at least Ford seems to be consistent... |
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#65 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
VF the MCE that was delayed due to GFC, stretching Zeta evolution out, and Reuss kind of back handed suggests that Mooney was stretching the truth with exports and platforms. IMO, Holden recently fell just as hard as Ford considering their greater investment and forward commitment, Maybe Ford knows or sees something with new large sedans Holden doesn't want to accept? |
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#66 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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#67 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
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Hes got more people to look at than his predecessors for why Zeta isnt living up to the hype.
Who is to blame for the Impala debacle for instance. That program alone was probably intended to be the bread winner for the whole thing. |
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#68 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
maybe they can flex quite a bit up and down of that figure depending on whether 2016 is a RWD evolution or global FWD platform |
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#69 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,439
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Quote:
Linking this to VE/VF obviously the future plans changed once Holden was forced into reassessing it's programs/exports etc..and hence not going with an all-new VE replacement as I believe was the original plan. |
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#70 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
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#71 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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#72 | |||
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,940
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#73 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
Without funding from the US government, no one else was going to refinance GM, they would have gone Chapter 7 and be wound up, that includes all of their divisions, even those outside of North America. Last edited by jpd80; 26-05-2012 at 06:14 PM. |
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#74 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,439
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#75 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
the flat out rapid market shift away from their key products. It will be interesting to see how both scramble to keep their cars viable and fresh for our changing market given the lower than anticipated sales at the moment would any of us be prepared to commit to an all new platform in four years time that must run for six years to turn a profit? Remembering that the only thing colder than the taxman's smile is the confidence of a financial officer.. |
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#76 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,439
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Back to VF, can anyone see a swing back to large cars anyway. I'll be honest, it's the seductive power of the G6ET which has stopped me from buying a Terry, otherwsie the Terry offers more and drive's brilliantly for it's type. And I can't see a high tech Commodore doing much better then now because it's (and Falcon) are not failing due to being crap, it declining because it's a large car. An overall large sedan car market of under 80,000 (iirc) fought over by FG, VE, Aurion plus a few others...
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#77 | |||
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,940
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#78 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
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Cant see it happening really. The market wants large cars with the economy of a smaller car, the tech of a small car, at the price of a small car. Where can they win in any of that.
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#79 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
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100/mth I-6 turbos 100/mth S/C V8s 500/mth EcoLPI 1300.mth I-6 petrol 800/mth V6 diesels. |
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#80 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Melb.
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#81 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,504
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The viability of any manufacturer is now closely related to the availability of state of the art flex plants! Ford HQ know this and also believe that the market can swing just as quick back to large cars, as it did toward smaller cars, so by having flex plants, they can fill market trends far more quickly and efficiently.
I can't recall the exact numbers right now, but in terms of costs asociated with build of small and large, the difference isn't huge. Ford HQ currently see their global large car volume at 18% in 2015 and at 17% in 2020, they are committed to their large car models, as they've said already. |
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#82 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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When people think or the cruze as a small car costing senario, they seem to think its not as profitable as the commodore...
But...think about this. Cruze development costs are share globally, and manfacture is. The only things made in australia for the cruze are the body panels...everything thing else is korea or US. So, holden are building a car, with very little cost.
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#83 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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#84 | |||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Quote:
I do beleave part of the funding was from the gov's "Green car fund" (or similer) Ford also got some funds (lesser amount) and chose to spend it on the EcoBoost instead...
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#85 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
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Youre still looking at $450m from Holden
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#86 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
that would allow FoA to continue building large sedans with minimal changeover of parts and stampings but continue with a lot of common or reused parts already amortized. Will Mustang and Falcon "evolve" towards each other without becoming the one platform? Do we end up with a modified Falcon that has more global features in it but retains Aussie character? |
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#87 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Utilise Mondeo/fusion parts and panels...
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#88 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
I think the side slope between Malcon and Mondeo is different resulting in different hip and shoulder room Someone could put up a very good case for Falcon being a mixture of global parts, a RWD that shares with two major platforms Fusion/Mondeo and Mustang.. Sure, why not.. |
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#89 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
around $149 million tip in from the government. Meaning Holden spent around $330 odd million A lot of that introduction cost was for new presses and what not, exactly what they did with VE, a way of getting new infrastructure on the back of a new car line.... Something that would be odd if Holden was selling only base model Cruze for $22,000 but the current product mix is skewed heavily towards mid and high series and diesel too. Long story short, the product mix of Cruze without the development cost may be very attractive as is possibly, the write down cost of what I assume would be called "replacement production equipment..." |
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#90 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
http://www.carsales.com.au/demo/deta...5&sort=default
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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