Test drove an XR6T and SS

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

GS gets you more than 260rwkw, and a decent auto.

And base spec brakes, sub standard tyres that can't put power down and a low rent interior.

The SSV gets you 260kW, and an inferior auto.

And also gives you brembos, more wheel options available, a better interior with more standard inclusions and a tried and tested drivetrain.

You can buy most of the options found in the SSV for a GS, but can you buy the power in the GS for the SSV? No, you can't.

And not everybody gives a stuff about power and figures Mr Clarkson. Its also nice to have a comfy car with lots of options to drive round in, not just one that makes all the right noises but can't pull up or have decent bluetooth.

It's unfortunate some here are of the glass-half-empty variety. For the power you get in a GTS, less than 260rwkw, I think the GS is a great bargain.

It's also unfortunate that those of us who don't mind looking at cars other than those made in Broadmeadows get treated like fools just because we like to consider other options.

And GT69 just to clarify - I actually bought an FG XR8 Ute brand new in 2009 so I'm not an EB lover or whatever you described me as.

[stang65]

So all you guys that buy a performance car are now buying it for the gimics and not the fact that is has more power or is quicker. Thats where Ford got it wrong they should have thrown in an Ipad 2 and removed the supercharger and they would have sold tenfold.

Seriously i give up lets bag ford for having too much power but not enough gimics.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by b2tf

And not everybody gives a stuff about power and figures Mr Clarkson. Its also nice to have a comfy car with lots of options to drive round in,

funny how in the AU days or in the boss260 days, people used the same argument against ford. apparently the au/ba/bf were rubbish because they couldn't win in a straight line race!!

i think a lot of people argue for arguments sake.

apologies to the OP. it was a genuine question i believe but as a ford fan it annoys me when other 'fans' stick the boots in using the same arguments that they used to use against the general.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Deco28

But that's the point. It's not all about the power. For 95% of people 260kw is plenty, then it becomes the luxury appointments which sell a car. Frankly something the Commodore simply outclasses the Falcon in.

Thankyou, if the average joe was concerned about outright power they would just buy the GT..why even bother with the GS; its the same theory between the price difference of the XR8 vs GS.

I dont know why people get so precious, and just to clarify, when the GS is criticized its not because its a bad car, its a bloody good car, but it does not fill the void left by the XR8.

I, and I bet others, do not care what internal issues Ford and FPV have, they release product therefore its open to discussion.

If FPV/Ford bit the bullet and lowered the price on a GS so it becomes a XR8 then its a perfectly acceptable situation, although I still dont like the fact that the only V8 we can buy is supercharged. Yes its a premium engine, yes it has oodles of power, but if you cant price the car at a point where the masses wont look at it then what have you achieved?

The market share for people who care only about the engine only is tiny.

Lower the price of the car, sell it as a XR8 and watch the sales go up. Hopefully this happens around FG2 and then the GS can move up a bit with value added via FPV. Rumor new chassis changes to the rear, atleast some FPV embroidery etc for the interior (heck 50th anni XR6's get better differentiation). FPV bumper treatments etc. It doesnt even "need" brembo's standard, but make them an option for crying out loud.

Its another case of "missed by that much".

And ill say it again, the GS is a brilliant car, but its value proposition is not in its favor at the moment.

[my_gxl]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Maybe if it actually was something special instead of a base model falcon with a V8, an FPV badge and some vinyl on the side people would buy it?

As for the AU argument, technology moves on as time goes by. I remember when the AU's were the latest and greatest and they really did 'seem' to have everything you could want. The FG plain and simply just doesn't have that for what I would consider a reasonable price. I dont want an FPV but I do want a V8, what other option is there?

Sounds like project time...

[mik]

Originally Posted by b2tf

And base spec brakes, sub standard tyres that can't put power down and a low rent interior.



And also gives you brembos, more wheel options available, a better interior with more standard inclusions and a tried and tested drivetrain.



And not everybody gives a stuff about power and figures Mr Clarkson. Its also nice to have a comfy car with lots of options to drive round in, not just one that makes all the right noises but can't pull up or have decent bluetooth.



It's also unfortunate that those of us who don't mind looking at cars other than those made in Broadmeadows get treated like fools just because we like to consider other options.

And GT69 just to clarify - I actually bought an FG XR8 Ute brand new in 2009 so I'm not an EB lover or whatever you described me as.

i thought the gs got the same high series brakes as the xrturbo??

[Deco28]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Really? So when Ford had the better appointments in the XR8 we whinged that it didn't have enough power (when it actually did). It's a two way street unless you're driving in the right direction on AFF where you're told to move over for the lunatic driving in the opposite direction.

You really have to let go of the centric belief that the opinions on AFF perfectly represent the rest of the population.

And I'm pretty sure the Commodore's appointments were just as good as the XR8 while the car was a bit quicker.

Yes the auto was better ya de dah, but people see 6-speed auto and don't care. My dad owns a Holden Caprice and he was happy with the old ****** 4-speed and when the 6-speed came in, well honestly didn't care. He has driven plenty hire car falcons, and I've never heard him comment how it was that much smoother. It is, I know it is, but people really don't pick up these differences like a car review publication or an enthusiast trying to pick apart a vehicle.

I diverge.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by b2tf

And base spec brakes, sub standard tyres that can't put power down and a low rent interior.



And also gives you brembos, more wheel options available, a better interior with more standard inclusions and a tried and tested drivetrain.



And not everybody gives a stuff about power and figures Mr Clarkson. Its also nice to have a comfy car with lots of options to drive round in, not just one that makes all the right noises but can't pull up or have decent bluetooth.



It's also unfortunate that those of us who don't mind looking at cars other than those made in Broadmeadows get treated like fools just because we like to consider other options.

And GT69 just to clarify - I actually bought an FG XR8 Ute brand new in 2009 so I'm not an EB lover or whatever you described me as.

Couldn't have said it better myself!! Ford need a base V8 ute package... 15 kay between an SS ute and a GS ute.. and the SS ute is pretty much identical equipment wise..

Holden SS utes also have resale, something Ford GS utes will struggle with!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Couldn't have said it better myself!! Ford need a base V8 ute package... 15 kay between an SS ute and a GS ute.. and the SS ute is pretty much identical equipment wise..

Holden SS utes also have resale, something Ford GS utes will struggle with!

..... and if they did you blokes would still kick it in the guts. Been reading these threads for years and has always amazed me how the arguments change to suit the times ...... why some buy a FORD I dont know.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

..... and if they did you blokes would still kick it in the guts. Been reading these threads for years and has always amazed me how the arguments change to suit the times ...... why some buy a FORD I dont know.

nailed it.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

..... and if they did you blokes would still kick it in the guts. Been reading these threads for years and has always amazed me how the arguments change to suit the times ...... why some buy a FORD I dont know.

How so? Thats not true at all.

A NA 5.0 (US Spec), manual, cloth at the right price would have me signing tomorrow. Im actually a gen x'er that isnt overly worried about bluetooth etc but the basic's have to be right.

I dont care how fast it would or wouldnt be, its a V8, manual and wouldn't cost the earth to run, insure etc. I have no need for a S/C'd daily.

FG XR8 is a nice car, until you need to find an apex, or perhaps its the straight line performance bias that only matters? Also if I wanted a small power band id buy a Honda.

But apparently its better to build a Aus spec engine for minimal sales and price it high enough that the average joe thinks its too costly.

The one time in the last 10 odd years when they could crate an engine and its the best V8 Ford have made in ages.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

..... and if they did you blokes would still kick it in the guts. Been reading these threads for years and has always amazed me how the arguments change to suit the times ...... why some buy a FORD I dont know.

No I'd go out and buy one.. Coz unlike some on these forums I don't just waddle around and talk ****, I actually put my money where my mouth is!!

Fords cheapest V8 is now $52,000... Ive already got $70,000 V8 sedan, I want a cheap work ute with a V8 and now the only option I have is Holden with the SS.

[Rodge]

Quote:
Originally Posted by prydey
funny how as soon as ford stop making the xr8 there is all these people that want to buy one, and yet when one was available, they couldn't sell it.

i think many of these threads, although starting out genuine, develop into another excuse for all the so called ford fans to stick the boots into ford again.

]Whats wrong with a GS? Too expensive says the fans. Well save more, budget for it and get something special. No, sit back and whinge that ford don't make the car you want anymore because you are the loud minoritOriginally Posted by GT69
Is it really any wonder Ford stops building things. If I had to cater to Ford fans, I'd pack up shop and just do imports. Everyone wants billion dollar profits from a local company, while getting a billion dollar car for the price of a fiesta.y who don't buy new cars anyway.

I'm honestly amazed how far the wool has been pulled over everyones eyes. Both the 6T and the 8 beat Holden's offerings in every way, shape and form not 2 years ago. But Holden do a minor interior update and suddenly the VE is the fresh new kid? Seriously.

I wish Ford well, with luck the FG isn't the last of the Falcons. But if it is, it'll be the fans who'll be to blame.

I strongly agree with both.

The AU XR8 was how much? Not much less than what the asking price is for a new GS over 10 years later. The FG XR8 was cheaper than the AU was all those years ago, and outperformed the SS in just about every aspect, and we still didn't buy it.

If anything I don't think we deserve a sub $50k 400hp XR8, because if Ford did make one, AGAIN, we'd still find something to whine about. Like it not having a make-up studio or extra large cupholder for the waxpot.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't, by their own so-called support base.

And in reality why should Ford butt heads with GMH re this segment, when GMH openly admit to selling at a loss to maintain their no1 sales position.

__________________Falcman

I'm definitly with Falcman and others on this issue. Look, Ford do a brilliant inline 6, Holdung's six is a torqueless peice of rubbish, FPV do a brilliant SC V8, Holdungs V8 is wait for it, yes a torqueless peice of rubbish by comparison, so we don't have a NA V8 to compete with at the minute, its not the end of the world, give Ford some time FFS, I'm sure it won't be long before they bring in the NA 307 KW 5.0 Coyote.

If people can't wait and want their ****y touchscreen then they're the sore loser that'll be really licking their wounds when Ford bring in the world class NA 5.0 Coyote engine and the XR8 rises again come FG2 time. Those who lack patience will get what they deserve, an unreliable, underperforming peice of GM crap.

[Polyal]

I agree Rodge, but dont tell people to just buy what is there and be loyal to the "cause" because what they really want is not being made..thats crazy.

Surely you dont buy something on the assumption that what you really want will be out soon...maybe...

If you have to buy now (say lease or whatever), then you take your business elsewhere.

Whats worrying is that if they do make the decision to do the XR8 again, when will that be? Whens the right time? Leave it to late and 2015/16 comes and guess what..we might just be talking about Fusions/Taurus' et al.

It will be to late, its like the delay of the TDI Tezz. Yes its here now, and its the best SUV for the money...but it should have been out years ago.

[383 GXL]

the dreamers are wanting the fg2 and when that comes out they will want the fg3

[Rodge]

I see your point Poyal and couldn't agree more regarding the diesel Tezza, long overdue. FPV made the call they needed the SC engine, I suspect, (don't know) they have an exclusive window of opportunity that may preclude Ford making that engine available even in NA form in their range for a period of time. This sort of commercial arrangement would appear to make sense otherwise why would they invest however many million it really cost them to develop that SC engine.

I hope Ford have the opportunity to market the XR8 with that engine in NA form come the time of the release of the FG2, as you and others quite rightly point out there is a hole in the range at present and those that have to change now and want an affordable V8, well....I guess they have to do what suits them best. As for the Op it doesn't look like he's in any hurry and I suspect we'll get him back from the abyss of falling for the dark side.

[BENT_8]

Ford have a habit of leaving gaping holes in their market.
So Holden admit they lose money selling what the public want, but sell plenty of them.
I can just see the pub conversation...
'My SS is cool and has all these gadgets for next to nothing'
then from the other side
'My GS costs heaps more but atleast Ford made money off me'

Honestly, who cares wether the manufacturer is getting grants and selling at a loss, atleast they're selling a product people want at a price people can afford.
Let the government bean counters worry about the rest, they'd waste your money either way.

[Rodge]

Last time I checked it was bragging rights off the mark at the lights. Don't know which pub you drink at. GS would see off an SS so easily you probably wouldn't have to use more than half throttle

[AMGC63]

Boy o boy some of you guys do more backflips than a gymnist and change your arguement for the sake of canning Ford at any chance.
If the XR8 comes out with a naturally aspirated engine and is slower than the XR6t how will it fare in sales any better than the previous model?? The FGXR8 was more powerful and slightly faster than the SS dont forget. Discounting the GS is suicide if you're trying to repay a debt. Losing money on each sale is just plain stupid.
Anyone suggesting that FPV drop the price on the GS needs to go do a basic accounting course.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Last time I checked it was bragging rights off the mark at the lights. Don't know which pub you drink at. GS would see off an SS so easily you probably wouldn't have to use more than half throttle

True, but the money saved on the SS would buy a sweet tune, and drinks at a better establishment too...

[302 XC]

Good points all around
Seriously holden couldnt give me a commonwhore , 6 or an 8 , i wouldnt have it
Dont like them,end of story
Now gettin a new Ford "6" and really rubbing it into the faces of the V8 commo boys/girls
Sign me up right now
I mean we could go on and on about what they have or dont have,how much power they have,how fast down the 1/4 they go
The speed limit is 100Ks in most states
Over that results in massive hits to the wallet
Why do we need cars doin the 1/4 in 12/13 secs,200+ KW,wether flywheel or rear wheels ???
Its in a mass produced family car/ute
There not frieght trains

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by b2tf

And base spec brakes, sub standard tyres that can't put power down and a low rent interior.

And also gives you brembos, more wheel options available, a better interior with more standard inclusions and a tried and tested drivetrain.

And not everybody gives a stuff about power and figures Mr Clarkson. Its also nice to have a comfy car with lots of options to drive round in, not just one that makes all the right noises but can't pull up or have decent bluetooth.

I wasn't aware that the Ford was a Bugatti and needed super massive brakes...the ones in the XR6T are more than satisfactory for what they do.

And if you compare the prices of the GS which is an FPV after all, to the HSV's GTS...you will find the GS is great value for money...and actually looks like a real car...

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

No I'd go out and buy one.. Coz unlike some on these forums I don't just waddle around and talk ****, I actually put my money where my mouth is!!

Fords cheapest V8 is now $52,000... Ive already got $70,000 V8 sedan, I want a cheap work ute with a V8 and now the only option I have is Holden with the SS.

Thats great So buy an SS for petes sake? Its a choice we all have and its great to have it. If Ford dont have that model thats fits your bill or a family of 10 or someone requiring a heavy off roader ..... go and buy it from who ever but the carry on thats been going on for years is tiring especially when the arguement changes once a gap has been filled.

If everyone wanted the best value, the best what ever ..... why isnt the Skoda kicking goals in this country? Buy a Golf as they keep winning the awards so they must be better than anything else? People look at a badge and buy on what they know and are comfortable with and if the product isnt there they should just move on.

I have held on to the BA XR6 for 6 years now because I didnt want a 5.4 nor a Turbo and have waited for what FPV were up to ..... find a thread where I kicked and screamed about it. Have got a few AU's as well as they have been reliable. Have also got a 96 LTD, Landau, XC, XB and have had around 12 plus new cars including a Territory, G6E and a new Ranger of late. So no ...... I just dont just waddle around and talk **** either ..... not even knowing what this has got to do with the discussion unless we are just trying to out do each other?

Actually wouldn't mind an A5 Audi .... they look great and go well but they dont make one for $60,000 so I might go and ***** on there forum for a chuckle ....... they are missing out on a sale!

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Honestly, who cares wether the manufacturer is getting grants and selling at a loss, atleast they're selling a product people want at a price people can afford.
Let the government bean counters worry about the rest, they'd waste your money either way.

What a concept. What brilliance! ^&%* me! There we have it!~

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

True, but the money saved on the SS would buy a sweet tune, and drinks at a better establishment too...

Guess the GS owner might have to resort to using two thirds throttle then

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Thats great So buy an SS for petes sake? Its a choice we all have and its great to have it. If Ford dont have that model thats fits your bill or a family of 10 or someone requiring a heavy off roader ..... go and buy it from who ever but the carry on thats been going on for years is tiring especially when the arguement changes once a gap has been filled.

If everyone wanted the best value, the best what ever ..... why isnt the Skoda kicking goals in this country? Buy a Golf as they keep winning the awards so they must be better than anything else? People look at a badge and buy on what they know and are comfortable with and if the product isnt there they should just move on.

I have held on to the BA XR6 for 6 years now because I didnt want a 5.4 nor a Turbo and have waited for what FPV were up to ..... find a thread where I kicked and screamed about it. Have got a few AU's as well as they have been reliable. Have also got a 96 LTD, Landau, XC, XB and have had around 12 plus new cars including a Territory, G6E and a new Ranger of late. So no ...... I just dont just waddle around and talk **** either ..... not even knowing what this has got to do with the discussion unless we are just trying to out do each other?

Actually wouldn't mind an A5 Audi .... they look great and go well but they dont make one for $60,000 so I might go and ***** on there forum for a chuckle ....... they are missing out on a sale!

What I said wasn't directed at you, and I agree plenty go around whinging about would could have been, but at the end of the day the only people suffering here are the ones working for Ford, because in reality they won't have jobs in 4 years time simply because they company has lost its future thinking. While they are really good at what they do with Turbo's and GT Falcons, they really have lost a big chunk of the market through stupidity, they still havent given us an answer on XR8 and its been gone over 12 months now... Thats Fairlane gone, wagon gone, XR8 gone, Territory Turbo gone and RTV gone, how much longer can the rest last??

The GS is a great car but is 5 - 10 kay overpriced, regardless of how quick it is is irrelevant, we have had the XR6 Turbo powered cars for years now, they are mighty quick but I would doubt they would have sold as well as they have if they only started at F6 pricing!! Lets imagine that, having only an F6 ute on offer at $55 kay, how many people would still buy them?? I dont think many XR6 T 38 kay buyers would want to spend an extra 17 kay just for the privledge.

Ford should have learnt from Pursuit the issues with overpricing base V8 FPV utes.. It does not work!! The only FPV utes that sell are GTP based ones... We proved that with the Super Pursuit....

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

What a concept. What brilliance! ^&%* me! There we have it!~

I'll assume you've missed the point....

Look at it this way, Holdens employ people to build vehicles that will sell. The vehicles roll out the door, the employees get paid, the dealer gets a cut, usually quite small, the customer is happy and the dole queue is short.
If Holden dropped the V8 from its lineup it would alienate half its customer base, familiar?

The market is tight and Holden are selling a product at the right price to keep people in work, food on the table, and people like Bearman, who is looking at it from a bang for buck perspective, happy.
Im sure the economic toll on Centrelink in Elizabeth is better for it atleast.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I wasn't aware that the Ford was a Bugatti and needed super massive brakes...the ones in the XR6T are more than satisfactory for what they do.

And if you compare the prices of the GS which is an FPV after all, to the HSV's GTS...you will find the GS is great value for money...and actually looks like a real car...

Yeh GS is great value... We could use the same analogy in comparing GS to XR6 Turbo...

[DMXR6T]

Each to his/her own. I like the wide torque spread of the XR6T - leaves 6 Litre V8s for dead. Would not consider any of the V8s on sale here compared to the 6T. With 6SP manual you can be in any gear at any speed and still accelerate away smoothly. V8 sound - for the bogan hoons maybe. I like to keep low key, do not want to be cop bait.

Driven plenty of Commodore hire cars. A pillar blind spot - really bad. Some of the hire cars were a couple of years old and they were starting to fall to bits - loose feeling all over tha place.

Driving position - to me both about the same but I do slightly prefer my FG.

Styling - it is great that we all like different things, otherwise life would be boring. Would not catch me in a car with stripes, loud colour or "badges". Embarrassing - looks like the drive must have ego/psychological issues - Look at me!!!

All said and done however, you buy what you like and that is that.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Yeh GS is great value... We could use the same analogy in comparing GS to XR6 Turbo...

If you want to compare apples with oranges sure...I much prefer to compare two cars that are in the same market specification wise...

If you want to compare the XR6T to something, it needs to be it's competitors equivalent...which is absolutely zilch...Holden don't even make a turbo...so what do you compare it to...the Supercharged Holden that was pulled from the market?

At the end of the day, if the OP isn't comfortable in an XR6T, he's not going to be anymore comfortable in an XR8, they're the same sized interior...