Hypothetical: Post 2015 Falcon

[Polyal]

The only other car I would like to see at FPV is a V8 Ranger. Not because its a fantasy thing, but because I dont think there and any V8 pickups in Oz at all.

I reckon many people who buy V8 utes would have a good look at is as the trend as already swung to these type of cars.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Im sure Ford employees read these pages from time to time for some light entertainment..

Nah, that could never happen.........

[FPV GTHO]

FPV cars only make money on locally produced vehicles. Taking fully built imports, just to strip down the parts and reimagine the car would get you another scenario like the RHD Mustang Cobra. If you could import the basic structure of the vehicle minus what would be changed you could get somewhere, but then youve still got a development project to offset.

[dimka100]

FPV needs to start thinking outside the box a bit more ... kind of what HSV is doing ... FPV needs to realise that the usual market their vehicles appeal to is probably slowly shrinking ...

[Brazen]

Wagon and diesel - that would be over 1000 extra sales a month right there.

(Probably more considering Holden often sells over 1200 Commodore wagons a month alongside Captiva)

[prydey]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i guess building cars in Germany is not cheap either

not sure what you are getting at there. bmw's etc are not only made in germany. they also sell here for a lot more than a falcon does so its hardly relevant. people are also prepared to pay a premium for the badge. it doesn't matter how good a falcon is, it still has a ford badge on it which means it will never compete with a german marque.

personally i believe the tariffs should never have been lifted.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Im sure Ford employees read these pages from time to time for some light entertainment..

ford may not but i do.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Wagon and diesel - that would be over 1000 extra sales a month right there.

Says who? Are you a market researcher?

Also, there is a reason Ford don't make a Falcon wagon or the Fairlane anymore. It wasn't because people didn't buy them was it?

[Polyal]

^^well in conjunction with them being POS compared to the competition didnt help either..but perhaps OT

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Wagon and diesel - that would be over 1000 extra sales a month right there.

(Probably more considering Holden often sells over 1200 Commodore wagons a month alongside Captiva)

and we all know that ford should be able to mimic anything holden does, right!??

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Says who? Are you a market researcher?

Also, there is a reason Ford don't make a Falcon wagon or the Fairlane anymore. It wasn't because people didn't buy them was it?

Well... roughly 400 sales a month were going to a 13 year old wagon design, XT spec, plastic wheel trim, 4 speed auto, 4 star safety, manual rear wind-up window vehicle which retailed for about $43,000 on road...

Then add to the fact that the Commodore sells up to 1200 wagons a month without a LPG version....

Then add to the fact that 80% of Territorys are diesel, and approx 70% of Mondeo are diesel...

I think my estimate of a FG wagon coupled with a diesel engine in Falcon will give it a consistent 1000 unit a month boost.


No need to call me a researcher, I prefer the term Professor.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

and we all know that ford should be able to mimic anything holden does, right!??

Like sell cars?

And Holden dont have a diesel Commodore.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Well... roughly 400 sales a month were going to a 13 year old wagon design, XT spec, plastic wheel trim, 4 speed auto, 4 star safety, manual rear wind-up window vehicle which retailed for about $43,000 on road...

Then add to the fact that the Commodore sells up to 1200 wagons a month without a LPG version....

Then add to the fact that 80% of Territorys are diesel, and approx 70% of Mondeo are diesel... (Please do provide resources...)

I think my estimate of a FG wagon coupled with a diesel engine in Falcon will give it a consistent 1000 unit a month boost.

If Ford thinks that a diesel Falcon wagon will double sales, don't you think it'd be on sale yesterday???

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Like sell cars?

And Holden dont have a diesel Commodore.

no, but holden sell 1200 wagons a month so ford can too!! holden make a wagon and get many sales, therefore ford should be able to as well! holden sell a large % of v8's so ford should be able to as well.... the list goes on.

i believe there is a much bigger affiliation with holden and australians than any other brand. thats why they can sell daewoos to the masses simply by putting a lion badge on it. does anyone really think those cars would sell anywhere close to those volumes if they didn't have that holden badge??!!

its not about the car or the features or whatever, its about the badge, and aussies flock to holden, like it or not. its just a fact of life. football, meat pies, kangaroos and holden cars.

many might not share my views but the sales numbers back me up. do people really think the mazda 3 or corolla is the best car in its class? or do people just buy the badge. do people really think the hilux is best in class? or do people just buy the badge. take for example the last of the mitsi 380's. they had best warranty in class, and loaded with features for less coin, and yet still couldn't give them away.

many people don't buy the best car in its class. they buy a badge.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Chassis: They need to fix Control Blade to take more power.
The reason I say this is because once upon a time Lincoln had a couple of FG Falcons. One had the Miami, the other had their own blown 450+kW Coyote. There was a strong argument to use this to rip the Cadillac CTS-V a new one. The rear needed a lot more attention than they could afford to give it at the time... so yeah, just make the rear bullet-proof.

They should focus on aluminium in the moving components before they employ it in the body.

Obviously, epas would be standardised by then. You would think.



Engines: If they were to use the diesel they should ditch that ancient 2.7 litre and use the diesels from the new Ranger.
.

Much rather the newer PSA diesels then the ranger stuff falc'man. Yeah the ranger stuff is great but i had a listen to an idling diesel territory the other day (outside mind you) and apart from a slight puff of smoke and a few seconds of 'din din din' on start up i'd swear it was one of the queitest diesel engines i've ever heard. Ranger stuff is good but based on released video its diesels aren't passenger car spec noise wise (from the outside anyway). Inside the new territory you can't even tell its a diesel...at all....when idling.

As for control blade well if the stories of mustang testing are true they must be working on something. Ford Aus did the hard yards on the front end so now why doesn't FOrd NA help us out wit the rear? FFS control blade is good enough but its basic design was never suposed to deal with what FOrd Aus are asking of it....its just impossible to beef up a design to take that RWD HP when it was built for FWD/AWD work to a small car budget.... If ford wants to use it for the mustang they will obviously need to majorly improve its ability to take RWD grunt without breaking (probably have to go back to a subframe frankly this diff bush thing is folly) or just do a new RWD IRS. If ford does do that for mustang (which won't be beam axle at least in top spec form come the new model) then Ford Aus gets further cost efficincies in parts and its designed effectively for free.... This all increases the chances that Ford Aus will stay with RWD....but if they go epas/v6 etc. then its a global engine lineup (probably no zf boo hoo), and depending on the degree of cost savings global tech too. Best of both worlds no?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by prydey

no, but holden sell 1200 wagons a month so ford can too!!

And how do you know there is another 1200 wagon buyers each month in the market?? What happens if there is only 1200 in the market all together & then you are competing for just 1200 between 2!!!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And how do you know there is another 1200 wagon buyers each month in the market?? What happens if there is only 1200 in the market all together & then you are competing for just 1200 between 2!!!

Toyota back in 1994 were silly to release the Rav4. The Suzuki Vitari was selling 70 a month - how did they know if they could find another 70 buyers a month?

Likewise the Captiva, Kluger, CX-9, Santa Fe, Tribeca, Sorrento... Territory was selling 1500 a month by itelf, no way new entrants would sell anything with Territory being the sole family SUV.

[Johnnyboy]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

This is Australia, theres people who live outside of metro areas, I want a "regional" package as an option, which optional inside that is a PSA diesel 4 (or 6) cylinder engine, Bi-Xenons and factory driving lamps or mounting locations, slightly lifted, softer shocks, higher profile tyres and a full sized spare.

This is a key point. Drive around the regional towns and all you mostly see are Commodores (and import utes).

Make a bare bones and tough car with just the basics and price it accordingly, you'll get regional Australia behind it (particularly if you have a basic V8/manual). Pair it with a basic ute with raised suspension and possibly diesel motor. Amazing how many bush cocky's had nothing to buy after Ford ditched the fairlane...

Worked for Holden with the WB.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i guess building cars in Germany is not cheap either

I guess Australia is not as big a market as Germany is.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by ivorya

I want the FORD Aus Top Wigs to get onto these forums more often to listen and contribute and just maybe, they'd be able to take some of these suggestions to the table to be costed and also by listening to problems, take their heads out of their A_s's and relise that they really arn't producing a world export car.
In relation to the topic at hand, Why not, build the Falcon to the same dimentions of the Mondeo, utilizing updated chasis and the current Ecoboost and Modular V6 engines. Mondeo is just about the same size as Falcon, weigh's less.
I guess the question needs to be asked, with SUV's being the Flavour, is there a need for such a car to cost Billions in development with harder times to regain that money.

What makes you think they don't already take a look every now and then (besides the fact that if they listened to everyone here they would have gone through 3 complete marketing departments in the last 3 years)?

Back On Topic -

Make it lighter.

Increase the quality of the interior. I sat in a Titanium Territory at the MMS earlier this year and the dash was nowehere near meeting the door trim in any way that would be seen as "quality". They feel cheap.

As said before - there is no reason why a 55k car should not have any feature I can find on a 35k car. Bring SYNC, adaptive cruise control, park assist and everything else you can shove in the thing. At least on the top of the range cars and optional on lower range.

I hate to say it, but drop the I6. It's been a great engine but it's an orphan in the Ford world and continuing development when their are less expensive, corporate engines in the world just doesn't make sense. EcoBoost 2.0l, Ecoboost V6 and 5.0l V8 are the future. Offer them all across the range. Grandfather the V8 from FPV. XR8 with a firm, sports tuned suspension. G8E with a softer, sports luxury setup.

3 engines, 4 trim levels (XT, XR, G, GxE) = 12 model range.

While we're talking model range, re-align it. The XR range actually stood for something once upon a time. EB XR6 anyone? Now it's the fleet hack-mobile.

Drop the ute. The Ranger is a world class vehicle and fills the purpose.

Make it a little SMALLER. Most people just don't NEED to carry 3 6' 13" guys in the back nowadays, so it shouldn't be a factor.

Make it so bloody good that when they show it to Ford HQ with a split waterfall grille already on the front, they can't help but cream their pants.

Finally - MARKET IT! Not with fingers jumping across the countryside or trophies in the boot. Ford US marketing is fantastic at the moment - adapt that (including the social media brand ambassador thing).

[gtfpv]

maybe drop the XT . the XR6 is cheaper or a better buy , and more attractive as a base model . no one in thier right mind will save 3k and for go an xr6 for an XT .

[ebxr8240]

Yep IMO the new Falcon should be shorter, more compact..
Adjustable rear seat where boot space can be swapped for leg room etc..
A model like the old GT's with decent not too expensive brakes, FIRM suspension and light weight chassis..
1500 kg would be NICE !!!!

[SteveJH]

Right. Imugli,

I'm going to start at the top of your post and work down.

For all I/we know, jpd80 or any other person in this thread could be the CEO of Ford or one of their senior engineers.

Having not seen the panio black trim in person, even if its the same material, it looks much classier then the silver finish trim.

A reason that a 55k car does not have all the same features as a 35-40k car is that if the manufacturer is making the same amount of money per unit for both products, but they are selling 5-10 times as many of the 35-40k car per year, then obviously more money will be available for R&D for the 35k car.

Agreed RE:I6. Grandfathering the FPV SCV8 would have to depend on the cost per unit compared to a Coyote crate engine.

4-6 engines, i4T, V6, V6TT, V8 & V8SC.

I'd actually suggest either making the XT absolutely bargain basement or eliminating it as a model altogether.

In my opinion it would actually be worth dropping the XR6 and just having the XR6T, have a sports kit option for the XT & G6 if people want an XR6.

Keep the ute, how many of the utes being sold are actually being used as work utes rather then as basically a sports coupe. Ute should stay unless a coupe is brought in to replace it.

Traditional Marketing is very expensive, i'd say try to target the Tv/New Paper marketing more and put a lot more effort into Online marketing. For example, are online AD's such as on youtube regulated by the government with regards to showing "exciting and sporty" AD's?

[ivorya]

Why not a hatch version?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And how do you know there is another 1200 wagon buyers each month in the market?? What happens if there is only 1200 in the market all together & then you are competing for just 1200 between 2!!!

your sarcasm meter must be broken. it was a bit of back and forth with brazen.

Originally Posted by Brazen

Toyota back in 1994 were silly to release the Rav4. The Suzuki Vitari was selling 70 a month - how did they know if they could find another 70 buyers a month?

Likewise the Captiva, Kluger, CX-9, Santa Fe, Tribeca, Sorrento... Territory was selling 1500 a month by itelf, no way new entrants would sell anything with Territory being the sole family SUV.

there is only so many buyers in the market place. also, comparing with toyota is pointless as most of their cars are global cars and wouldn't cost much to release in oz. same with all the others mentioned.

the large car segment is decreasing and there is no garauntee that there would be any large uptake of a new falcon wagon. why did camry and then magna stop making wagons. just because people lay down there cash for a holden hatch, doesn't mean all wagons will attract the same sort of numbers.

do believe that if ford still offered falcon wagon, lpg and v8, they'd be selling over 3000/month. its a question we'll never really know the answer to, but i'm going with no.

ford don't have a money tree. the aussie auto industry is struggling. fords best option is to go global. their mainstream family cars could be fwd. its only a minority that would even kick up a fuss. most wouldn't even be able to tell. considering there is a large migration to the small and mid market, which are nearly all fwd, i don't think its a big deal. they could have a rwd/awd sport variant.

hell, i wouldn't care if they just imported the whole car and called it a falcon instead of whatever the yanks badge it as. neither would many others.

[Bobman]

Agree with above posters in regards to poor quality interior plastics on the BA/BF/FG models. It's too rough and cheap, has no quality-feel about it at all.

Next, agree with LED tail lights & centre stop light. It's ridiculous seeing little incandescent filament globes clearly visible when an FG is pulled up beside you at the lights. LEDs would put the Falcon into a more modern era.

Some better seat material options would be great too. Not everyone wants leather, as it's not a good material to have with the harsh Australian summers. A suede option on the G6E and G6ET would be great. Even the new BMW 5 series offers suede over leather - a nice change.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

maybe drop the XT . the XR6 is cheaper or a better buy , and more attractive as a base model . no one in thier right mind will save 3k and for go an xr6 for an XT .

The FGII XT has shown how nice a base model can be made. Offer a SVP on it (like the old SR's) and if should sell well.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Right. Imugli,

I'm going to start at the top of your post and work down.

For all I/we know, jpd80 or any other person in this thread could be the CEO of Ford or one of their senior engineers.

Agree.

A reason that a 55k car does not have all the same features as a 35-40k car is that if the manufacturer is making the same amount of money per unit for both products, but they are selling 5-10 times as many of the 35-40k car per year, then obviously more money will be available for R&D for the 35k car.

I take your point, but I'm not talking about pioneering the technology, simply adapting it. Most of the R & D has been done.

Agreed RE:I6. Grandfathering the FPV SCV8 would have to depend on the cost per unit compared to a Coyote crate engine.

Agreed.

In my opinion it would actually be worth dropping the XR6 and just having the XR6T, have a sports kit option for the XT & G6 if people want an XR6.

Agreed. Not a bad idea.

Keep the ute, how many of the utes being sold are actually being used as work utes rather then as basically a sports coupe.

If you read all the other threads that say 40 - 50% of utes sold were egas, then the answer has to be not enough to sustain it.

Traditional Marketing is very expensive, i'd say try to target the Tv/New Paper marketing more and put a lot more effort into Online marketing. For example, are online AD's such as on youtube regulated by the government with regards to showing "exciting and sporty" AD's?

Don't know about the technicalities of youtube, but handing a few people the keys to a new car before it's launched and getting them to blog, post and tweet about it costs you... a few cars for a month. The publicity is free.

[cartaa100]

3.5 or 3.0L I6 direct injected similar to the bmw 3L I6

the terri diesel in the falcon

XR6T,G6ET,G6E,XR8,G8E(?),FPV's

all to get

HID
keyless push to start
led number plate lights
butterfly flap exhausts
leather
more advance (pretty) lighting. eg; audi,bmw,mercedes style.
wider wheels (bmw style)
7spd auto or 8spd zf
diesel option in G6E,XT,G6
and paddle shifters

[jpd80]

Change of pace- Ford now imports only the 5-door Mondeo and its stationwagon brother.

instead of a sedan, should Ford be looking at a 5-door Falcon as the future vehicle?
Would this give more versatility without going for both sedan & station wagon products?

Would Ford be able to alter Mondeo's rear hatch or the engineering to work on a 5-door Falcon?



Or is this a bad idea?