Idiots locking their kids in cars today.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by data_mine

My post was purely my experience.

Here's a nice easy to digest (from 'murica!) report.

http://www.injuryprevention.org/stat...rs/hotcars.htm

Summary
On a 33C (93F in the report) day, it was over (in both a light and a dark car) 52C (125F) internally in only 20 minutes. Temps peaked at 60C (140F) in only 40 minutes.

And to reinforce the extra danger for babies and toddlers (direct quote from report)
"The primary causes of heat stroke vary with age. The most common cause of heat stroke in adults is strenuous exercise. Heat stroke in infants, however, is primarily associated with increased environmental temperature or poor fluid intake. Heat stroke occurs more readily in infants who are ill or have other predisposing conditions such as congenital nervous system abnormalities. However, healthy infants are also at risk for heat stroke. Studies show that infants in good health have been found to run a temperature over 101°F in a warm environment. "


Now 33C is hardly hot, ~10 degrees down on what we've had in Canberra this week.

Begin stuck in a car on a hot day is dangerous for infants in minutes, not hours.

Yes, but the study was done using a base temperature of 95*F, or 33*C.
If the car had been pre cooled, and the base line 20*C instead it would be 30-35 after 40 minutes.

I was talking about a period of 5-10 minutes.

Therefore, using rude maths, the vehicle would be barely 30* and cooler than the outside ambient within a 5-10 minute timeframe.

As has been said above, there is no definitive answer as there are many variables to consider.
What may seem ok to some may be alarming to others.
Each case should be evaluated individually.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

i was at bondi westfields doing some work one day and noticed one of those silly little dogs in the car next to me, all windows were up and this dog was going off! so i called security and they told me to break a window.
the hardest decision i had was what tool to use but settled on a lump hammer.

the bloke when he finally got back to his car an hour latter was going off his rocker. nearly hit him with the hammer. poor dog would have been dead.

ill tell you now if it was a child i would have broken window first, then called the cops, then flogged the bloke

Most State and Territory criminal legislation contains provisions about carrying out an illegal act in order to prevent a more serious offence occurring. Or in this case, carrying out an “act” (like smashing someone’s window, which would otherwise be classified as criminal damage) to prevent injury, loss of life, or in an emergency situation like rescuing a child from a hot, locked car. In short, if it can be seen that you smashed the window in good faith (i.e. save the kid from dying), then you’ve got a defence to being sued or prosecuted by the muppet whose window you broke.

Police (dunno about Ambos and Firies) have an additional protection in specific legislation for Police and emergency services that says words to the effect, in the line of duty, they can break someone else’s property in the event of an emergency.

[JC]

Originally Posted by EF_6

If they make new laws just like they have for driving while talking/texting so a fine + 4 demerit points SURELY it will deter some from doing it.....We are not talking about 1 or 2 callouts this was 25 for one day!

Also, if Emergency Services think it was a poor decision by the parent and the kid/s were in danger they should have the power to call the police to turn up on the site so at least a fine can be written out.

Yep, if the kid/animal is left in the car long enough wherre they end up distressed, then a broken window and a fine should be the least the parent/owner cops.

Pretty sure there are already some laws about leaving a kid unattended; in NSW/ACT for example, you are not allowed to leave a minor under 12 unattended at home - it makes sense that it would also not be allowed in a car. But then define unattended.....

You are also supposed to lock your doors at the servo when you go into pay to reduce the opportunity for thieves to pinch your stuff from the car, or the car itself. (http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/y...817-24e5a.html) I wonder how many are aware of that law, and how many do that?? (If alone, I do that....if kids are in the car, I leave it unlocked). If you leave a kid in the car while paying for fuel, is that unattended? I would say in line of sight is OK, and counts as not unattended, but others may not agree.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by tweeked

It is not a one answer fits all. I always leave my kids in the car when paying for petrol. Way more kids in danger walking about a station forecourt than sitting in the car in the shade of an awning with the windows down. A mik bar to grab some milk? no problem.

In the sun windows up is a different matter.

Too many non parent blanket statements made here.

Agreed. I would rather him sit in the car safe than not being road aware and being hit.

Last line really sums it up.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Most State and Territory criminal legislation contains provisions about carrying out an illegal act in order to prevent a more serious offence occurring. Or in this case, carrying out an “act” (like smashing someone’s window, which would otherwise be classified as criminal damage) to prevent injury, loss of life, or in an emergency situation like rescuing a child from a hot, locked car. In short, if it can be seen that you smashed the window in good faith (i.e. save the kid from dying), then you’ve got a defence to being sued or prosecuted by the muppet whose window you broke.

Police (dunno about Ambos and Firies) have an additional protection in specific legislation for Police and emergency services that says words to the effect, in the line of duty, they can break someone else’s property in the event of an emergency.

Here's one state government's info pack on what you should avoid, why and what you can do if you see this:

http://www.community.nsw.gov.au/docs.../kids_cars.pdf

[Giant Cranium]

as im not a parent i have no idea but whats the go if you are at the servo with your child in the back seat do you have to remove them from the car whilst you fill? what is the process in that situation?

[JC]

You can leave them in the car while you fill, but you are not supposed to leave them unattended in an unlocked car while you pay. And some would say you shouldn't leave them in the car at all (what nonsense!!). I would argue that leaving them locked in while you pay is safe, since most people would be in and out in under a minute, and if it takes longer, then most poarents would go and get the kid out of the car after too long anyway (eg if EFTPOS goes down, or something), moreso on a hot day. And windows down is not so good at a servo because of fumes that come into the car.

[GASWAGON]

Its not the servo refueliing or just a quick stop to get milk that concerns me.

Its the 25 callouts for distressed kids locked in cars with windows UP not down on a 40+ day.....A/C in new cars is good...but its not that good that it keeps the cars static temp below say 30degrees when turned off.

Its so in Melbourne today I hav'nt actually been outside very much at all....Its stifling HOT and yesterday was the same and so tmrw will be also!

I just think that if they made some new laws it might make parents think twice.

Gees they've done it with the mobile phones why can't they do it for the kids???

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Its not the servo refueliing or just a quick stop to get milk that concerns me.

Its the 25 callouts for distressed kids locked in cars with windows UP not down on a 40+ day.....A/C in new cars is good...but its not that good that it keeps the cars static temp below say 30degrees when turned off.

Its so in Melbourne today I hav'nt actually been outside very much at all....Its stifling HOT and yesterday was the same and so tmrw will be also!

I just think that if they made some new laws it might make parents think twice.

Gees they've done it with the mobile phones why can't they do it for the kids???

Ahh, Victorian, that explains it...

How can you complain about the heat, you'd be happy its not ****ing down and 10* yeah.

[xxx000]

A few people getting very worked up about this topic but have they considered:

How many of these cases mentioned actually involved a parent deliberately leaving a child in a locked car ?
versus kids being accidentally locked in ( eg keys in ignition) and parents being in attendance the whole time and even calling emergency services?

There's a huge difference between these two scenarios

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Its not the servo refueliing or just a quick stop to get milk that concerns me.

Its the 25 callouts for distressed kids locked in cars with windows UP not down on a 40+ day.....A/C in new cars is good...but its not that good that it keeps the cars static temp below say 30degrees when turned off.

Its so in Melbourne today I hav'nt actually been outside very much at all....Its stifling HOT and yesterday was the same and so tmrw will be also!

I just think that if they made some new laws it might make parents think twice.

Gees they've done it with the mobile phones why can't they do it for the kids???

You can make all the laws you like but unfortunately there is that element of people who don't think, don't care or don't have common sense.

All that matters you know what to do when you see kids distressed in an unattended car.

Cheers.

[Dodge]

2 years ago in auckland i was at the local shops it was a 27 deg day there was a car next to mine with a small dog in it, all windows were fully up engine off ect i sat there 2 mins then went inside to get shop manager, he came out and looked and said he cant do anything so i said i will smash the front glass and get him out, his responce was if you do that i will have to call the police. i said are u ******* joking this dog can die and ur worried about a broken glass window, anyway after 5 more mins nobody came back to tah car so i grabed a brick from the garden part and smashed the side window and got the dog out , put him on the shade and gave him water , it was another 20 mins before this fat pig of a old lady came back just had her hair shampoo and blow dried , she asked why her car was damaged i said ur frikn dog smashed it to get out cause he was dying , she said he never gets upset in the car , i said u sit in there for 10 mins without windoes down u wont be worried about complaining when u cant breath . she wanted to report her car for vandalism , i walked away for 30 mins cause my car was next to hers once she went i left i should have not worried but the laws today protect idiots

[usernametaken]

Originally Posted by Dodge

but the laws today protect idiots

And that is the unfortunate thing about modern society...

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by trublu

Sorry, no young child should be left in a car unattended windows up or down regardless of any temperature, that is my opinion but you do what you see fit & live with the consequences if any.

Agree 100%, as a father of three I never left them on their own in their infant years, let alone in a car on a hot day.

They are a older now and the only time I will leave them in the car is if I'm parked close to the shop front for petrol payment other than that its all out of the car where I can ensure their safety.

[GREGL]

What do you expect , no personal responsibility encouraged these days . Ethics and morals shot to s...t . It is all about me and how dare you tell me how to live my life .
Off topic BUT , at my local train station the announcer has been informing people at EVERY opportunity to not run for the train . FFS a long time ago in grade 1 that was appropriate , dumbing down to the point no will take any notice .

[Papa Smurf]

Late last year I was parking in a shopping centre near home and watched as a female, dressed in Ninja gear, parked her 4WD and left the windows about 50mm down and I could see her talking to something in the back of the car.
I initially thought it might have been a dog, even that would have been bad as it was summer, but I looked in and a little girl about 5-6 was laying on the back seat apparently asleep. I couldn't believe a mother would leave a kid alone in a car, that could have been broken into easily.

I couldn't see her anywhere, I am guessing she went downstairs to buy something so I rang the Police, gave them the rego number and where it was. It may sound like an evil thing to do on my part but, I have a daughter and I would NEVER have done that no matter WHAT.

I would love to put that female up for idiot of the year award.

[mutanti]

Another ****** that should be Charged......

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by qdda5

When you say Ninja gear what are you referring too??

I assume Muslim.

[AndyXR6T]

This is a tricky one as what do you do at a petrol station after filling up? Do you take the kids in with you to pay? I personally don't like leaving the car running incase someone takes off in it or one of the kids touches the gear stick and the car rolls away etc??


Just 2 days ago I had this dilemma. I had my 3 kids in the car while my oldest was complaining about a sore throat, so I said I would grab some soothers from the servo. I parked in the first bay closest to the door, but felt anxiety about leaving the car running. So I had to unload all 3 kids out of the car to walk in 4m and spend 29 seconds inside while buying a packer of soothers. Load everyone back in and away we go.
Now if I left the kids in the car for those 29secs would I get labelled a bad parent? Would I come back to a broken window and angry bystanders?

When is it ok to leave them?

(Ps I can't believe there are morons out there leaving small children in a car for 10mimutes or more in this heat)

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by xxx000

A few people getting very worked up about this topic but have they considered:

How many of these cases mentioned actually involved a parent deliberately leaving a child in a locked car ?
versus kids being accidentally locked in ( eg keys in ignition) and parents being in attendance the whole time and even calling emergency services?

There's a huge difference between these two scenarios

See the thing is, if the child were accidently locked in as in your scenario (and it happens all) the parent / caregiver is in attendance and is the one who sends for help, you can't shoot someone for that, and as you said in these cases the the parent / caregiver is in attendance the whole time, so if by chance the child does become heat affected prior to help arriving I don't think you would find a parent / caregiver who wouldn't smash the window themselves.

the cases were I think most of us are getting worked up over are the one left at the pub while they go in for a quick schoie, or to throw $50 through the pokies, or at Coles while they "just duck in for a moment" and get stuck talking to some one and loose track of time

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

See the thing is, if the child were accidently locked in as in your scenario (and it happens all) the parent / caregiver is in attendance and is the one who sends for help, you can't shoot someone for that, and as you said in these cases the the parent / caregiver is in attendance the whole time, so if by chance the child does become heat affected prior to help arriving I don't think you would find a parent / caregiver who wouldn't smash the window themselves.

the cases were I think most of us are getting worked up over are the one left at the pub while they go in for a quick schoie, or to throw $50 through the pokies, or at Coles while they "just duck in for a moment" and get stuck talking to some one and loose track of time

Yes but how many or few are the bad case ones?
There's no breakdown given and also some parts of the media love to get their audience into a lather by making it appear to be a huge issue and on the rise.
Let's all be more rational and not wrongly condemn all involved without knowing all facts

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Yes but how many or few are the bad case ones?
There's no breakdown given and also some parts of the media love to get their audience into a lather by making it appear to be a huge issue and on the rise.
Let's all be more rational and not wrongly condemn all involved without knowing all facts

If we're talking about neglect here as per the scenario I laid out earlier does it matter how many end well V how many end in disaster?

I put that in the category of "I'd had a couple of many and drove home from the pub, but I didn't hit anything so its no big deal"

[xxx000]

Ok let's get into a frenzy then over who knows what

[Boza]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Surely they wouldn't fine you for that...geesus wots the world coming too

And that's if you can find a brick or rock or something to break the window before its too late........In a big shopping car park it would be hard to find something.

I'd use a wheel brace or jack always in the boot some 4wds come with glass break hammers in the tool kit aswell

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by AndyXR6T

This is a tricky one as what do you do at a petrol station after filling up? Do you take the kids in with you to pay? I personally don't like leaving the car running incase someone takes off in it or one of the kids touches the gear stick and the car rolls away etc??


Just 2 days ago I had this dilemma. I had my 3 kids in the car while my oldest was complaining about a sore throat, so I said I would grab some soothers from the servo. I parked in the first bay closest to the door, but felt anxiety about leaving the car running. So I had to unload all 3 kids out of the car to walk in 4m and spend 29 seconds inside while buying a packer of soothers. Load everyone back in and away we go.
Now if I left the kids in the car for those 29secs would I get labelled a bad parent? Would I come back to a broken window and angry bystanders?

When is it ok to leave them?

(Ps I can't believe there are morons out there leaving small children in a car for 10mimutes or more in this heat)

Mate use your brains, we've already said that leaving kids in for a quick couple of minutes while paying for fuel or something reasonably quick especially while you can see them is perfectly fine.

Its more about the idots leaving kids in cars with windows slightly down or even fully up and leaving the kids for 10 minutes and more. And pets too.

Little kids under 3 are usually strapped in the baby seat so even if they did know how to open the door they still couldn't get to it anyways.

I'll admit I have ducked into a beer bar while boy was asleep but car was parked right out front and I left windows down and I kept an eye on the car while having a sip.

Where's the 'common sense' gone!

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Mate use your brains, we've already said that leaving kids in for a quick couple of minutes while paying for fuel or something reasonably quick especially while you can see them is perfectly fine.

Its more about the idots leaving kids in cars with windows slightly down or even fully up and leaving the kids for 10 minutes and more. And pets too.

Little kids under 3 are usually strapped in the baby seat so even if they did know how to open the door they still couldn't get to it anyways.

I'll admit I have ducked into a beer bar while boy was asleep but car was parked right out front and I left windows down and I kept an eye on the car while having a sip.

Where's the 'common sense' gone!

Unfortunatly common sense is not so common any more

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Good mate of mine's a Fiery...
Unwritten rule amongst them when they get called to these situations, is to "jaws of life" the B pillar to access locked in kids.
Apparently, the vehicle is then a "write off"

Blood oath and I hope the fool that left the kids in the car is uninsured as well!!.

[cal0006]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Good mate of mine's a Fiery...
Unwritten rule amongst them when they get called to these situations, is to "jaws of life" the B pillar to access locked in kids.
Apparently, the vehicle is then a "write off"

That's actually great. I'm all for that little bit of intentionally driven karma to teach knobs a lesson.

Does anyone know the legal standpoint when it comes to breaking into a car to save a child or animal (and whether it differs between the two)? Because technically you're breaking in.

[xxx000]

Emergency services can be called and it's then in their hands. They have legislation to back them up too.

First thing to ask yourself is whether the child is in immediate or imminent danger

[MercuryT]

I think some are over-estimating the mental capacity of those who led to this topic existing.

No point saying "common-sense" and so on - they don't have it, nor grown up to need it. If the person did, we aren't talking about it.