Petition against changes to Modified Vehicle laws in NSW

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

Whoops, got my wires crossed. I meant June 2010, 6 must have come from June being the 6th month. Don't try to cook and post!

ROFL.

[vanman_75]

you could read real deep into the outcomes , it would bring the country to its knees .
guess it would save more lives than a speed camera, as most of the country would not have a car to drive !

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Not signed until Mr Andrew McClelland gets back to me with more details, for all we know he could be anyone having fun with a petition!

I also noticed that he says the 'MAJORITY' of vehicles. When (If ?) he comes back with more detail on that I'll have another look.

I know Andrew personaly and thats not his caper, Andrew and his family are very passionate abotu there cars and this is VERY REAL

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

you could read real deep into the outcomes , it would bring the country to its knees .
guess it would save more lives than a speed camera, as most of the country would not have a car to drive !

it would close down many businesses and take many cars off the road rendering them worthless. if everyone here had their $35,000+ car made worthless i am sure there would be a class action happening

[King Nothing]

This was posted on another forum from one of the big wigs at Australian Street Rod Federation

Hi Rodders,

I must admit I am not partial to these forums as things can be taken out of context and blown out of proportion.

I would like to clarify that no information has been withheld from the ASRF Committee meetings with the RTA as mentioned in this and other forums.
It has been well documented that the RTA has been working for several years on a revised version of the Modified Production Code of Practice that we register our vehicles to today. The document that the RTA is working with to replace the Code of Practice is called VSB14 (The National Code of Practice for Modified Vehicles) a subclause of this document is the National Guidelines for Street Rods. This document is a Technical Document that most States with the exception of NSW and QLD have adopted as Policy. The ASRF has been dealing with the RTA to implement a registration system for Street Rods utilising the Technical Guidelines from this document.

On Friday 2nd July 2010 two members of the ASRF Committee (myself and Darren Abela) met with the RTA, in this three hour meeting several issues were discussed, one of which was the RTA proposed that Street Rods should look at adopting the line of an ICV with exemptions, another was discussed regarding a restricted registration based on the above document with restricted days of road use. The RTA asked that we the ASRF Committee submit a revised proposal considering these options. I am at present finalising our revised submission based on an unrestricted registration scheme. The Committee will review this revised proposal before submission to the RTA.

As mentioned above the RTA is working on the replacement Guidelines and in their wisdom are not looking to implement it as a whole document, we were given a portion of the draft document be it half a page defining what they might classify as an ICV. If implemented this portion this would make most heavily modified vehicles ICV’s, but this is draft document only.
I would like to make a point at this time that the RTA a couple of years ago put VSB14 (National Code of Practice for Modified Vehicles) out for public comment and to the Working Parties who assisted in the development of the Modified Production Code of Practice we register vehicles to today, (this document was original implemented in 1994) however the ASRF who was part of the original Working Party was not consulted (they were forgotten). This document has been closed for Public Comment for some time now, technically the ASRF or any other party other than the working party have no rebuff on this document, however the RTA have advised they would like our input on any issues in this document. We are still waiting on a complete draft of the VSB14.

Another point raised at the meeting was the implementation of the revised VSI50 (Raising and lowering of vehicles) this has been well documented through the ASRF as the ASRF Committee brokered a deal with the RTA that Street Rods have exemption to this document. The RTA advised that they are looking to implement VSI50 in August 2010 and there will be a grace period.

The RTA also advised that the new Engineering System is hoped to be implemented in February 2011.

On another matter and I hope I am not speaking out of term, but to try and minimise phone calls and people’s concerns that nothing is being done for post 49 vehicles, I am meeting with some prominent car enthusiasts this Friday, with the intent of the group to establish an Umbrella Association for all vehicle registrations (i.e. Street Machines, Vintage & Veteran, 4 Wheel Drives, Modified Vehicles, etc). This Association will not be looking at taking over the registration or administration from these car groups, it is purely for numbers, if a group has issues or needs assistance in registration with numbers backing an Association we can achieve a lot more than each individual group on its own. I agree with some people’s opinions in this forum that things look dark however on a brighter note we have people ready to take the fight, we need to not get confused about these issues, not think some organisation is going to take over the world, we just need to trust and assist those taking up the fight after all we are all motor enthusiast looking to keep what we believe is rightfully ours. Years ago I figured out that it was ok to complain once, but if you want results you need to take action, you need to do it in the right process and in due course to get the right results.

We will keep you informed on further information pertaining to the Umbrella Association.

I would like to remind everybody that the Directors and Committees of the ASRF are Volunteers, no one is being paid for their efforts.

Something to think about when talking to Politicians you talk numbers, the more numbers the bigger the ears open up, Politicians talk electorate (numbers) an electorate is equal to 47,500 voters so if we have 600,000 members under one Umbrella Association we should be able to pull a chair up to the table when needed.

At this point I would like to thank all those who are supporting us in this fight to keep our Hobbies, Passions and Heritage alive.

I hope this has cleared up some confusion.

A couple of points;

- VSI 50 is certainly still on the cards. This was the proposed changes last year about basically making it impossible to lower your car. From what I've read the RTA hasn't really budged at all. The rodders have got an exemption but we are still in it. And from next month, by the sound of it.

- Sounds like a modified car alliance will be starting up soon, similar to the LVVTA NZ (google it).

- Most heavily modified vehicles will become ICVs, and to register will require meeting current ADRs. So forget a turbo conversion. As to where the line is drawn, I'm not sure.

Some more information. Almost every single car on this forum may have to have concessional registration.

Mark, supposedly this was raised at the last NSW D.C. meeting. Reps., Elvis being one of them, had been in discusions with NSW RTA re: this matter.
Was led to believe that the NSW's RTA, wants all new "modified vehicles"( that includes all modified vehicles, not just rods!!)
rego'd after December 2010, to be on "concessional registration". If the owner wanted to, they could try for ICV, but would have to comply with ADR's applicable, at the time of applying for rego. As the ADR's are an ever moving "set of goal posts" ( think electronic stability control, air bags , supplimental restraint systems, to name a few ) achieving ICV status would be almost impossible for the average constructor.
I'm also told they want the final say on registration of a particular vehicle, not just the current, engineer- blue slip- rego set of steps.
As I prefaced this with "supposedly", I would like to say I hope I'm wrong, and will be delighted to be so.
However I have a, "not so good feeling" about all of this, because we have been through all of this before, a la early '80's from memory.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

couple of points;

- VSI 50 is certainly still on the cards. This was the proposed changes last year about basically making it impossible to lower your car. From what I've read the RTA hasn't really budged at all. The rodders have got an exemption but we are still in it. And from next month, by the sound of it.

This is of major concern.
Are there any drafts of the updated proposal?

Why dont we have something like this for Modified Car Enthusiasts?
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewf...U1YwUFJzSkE6MA..

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by MAD

This is of major concern.
Are there any drafts of the updated proposal?

Why dont we have something like this for Modified Car Enthusiasts?
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewf...U1YwUFJzSkE6MA..

I haven't seen a draft, but I did find this on the RTA website.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati..._vehicles.html

Raising and lowering vehicles
Vehicle Standards Information (VSI) No 50 Raising and lowering vehicles was issued on 15 July 2009 by the Minister for Roads as part of a drive to help improve road safety in NSW.

The start date of VSI 50 has been deferred in order to provide industry and the community the opportunity to have input into the proposed changes.

A working group comprising industry, RTA and government representatives has been set up to discuss details and implementation arrangements for the VSI 50.

The working group met on August 12, to discuss options.

The RTA will investigate the options that arose from this meeting and make further determinations in due course.

The revised implementation date will be announced once the recommendations have been agreed.

The revised date will include a transition period to enable modification currently being made to vehicles to be completed. VSI 50 will be amended accordingly.

Inquiries may be directed to 1300 137 302 or by email to: Technical_Enquiries@rta.nsw.gov.au

View the Ministerial Media release

So, based on what I've read elsewhere about the RTA not really changing their position, the new regulations will be brought before parliment next month, with a grace period until the end of December 2010 for vehicles currently being modified. The only change is that street rods are exempt. Not sure on what's happening with 4WDs.

Beyond that, all raising/lowering of cars will be restricted to +- 50mm with engineering certification, and no more than 50mm at all. So forget about lowering your next car as owner certified, it may all be over.

[MAD]

I found this old version of VSI50...
http://www.australianimages.com.au/p...g-vehicles.pdf

It mentions in the 'Purpose' about limiting to +-50mm
But if you read page 4 on lowering vehicles, it mentions nothing other than what is already mentioned in VSI8 for Victorians.
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...340/0/VSI8.pdf

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by MAD

I found this old version of VSI50...
http://www.australianimages.com.au/p...g-vehicles.pdf

It mentions in the 'Purpose' about limiting to +-50mm
But if you read page 4 on lowering vehicles, it mentions nothing other than what is already mentioned in VSI8 for Victorians.
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...340/0/VSI8.pdf

Yeah I remember reading that at the time. It's a terribly written standard.

[bbcoupe]

Signed.

[richardxr8]

I just signed and noticed there were 'only' 2K+ sigs....
Maybe we really are a minority ? Do we really want to 'show our hand' as being the minority ? Need to have a concentrated effort... this affects the Red team as much as other groups of 'auto enthusiasts' What else is happening out there about this ?

[Keepleft]

VSI 50 etc - NSW NATIONALS Andrew Stoner (Opposition Roads Minister) opposed this originally, and as far as I can tell still does.

Refer also Athol Mullen, RTA Certifying engineer. Each on FB. See also Stoner's webpages and YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xckIbH3zRCk

http://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewStonerMP

[XRDRIFT]

Signed!

Oh please, I want to know the percentage of road accidents and fatalities related to modified vehicles. I would gamble my 362rwkw XR6 T that the percentage is as high as some politicians level of comonsense.

I have never been involved with any car accident that was my fault, I was involved in one...Rear ended by a STOCK standard car with a driver not paying attention to what was in front of him. And this has happened many times over the years.

Modified cars isnt the problem, its the people behind the wheel!! 600hp cars dont kill people, people kill people, irresponsible, ignorant and just totaly dumb people are the cause of most road crashes.

If drivers just payed more attention to the roads, the roads would be a safer place to drive on.....Not by removing the modified ones who actually be might be 100 times more safer when the car was stock.

[xbrules]

Signed

[Spinner5711]

Silly, silly law. I have a 1958 FE Holden (yes, a car from the other team).

If I choose to do any ONE of the following, I will have to make the FE compliant with current ADRs including emission.

1) Fit an external (door or mudguard mount) rear vision mirror.
2) Fit seat belts.
3) Fit radial tyres instead of crossplies.
4) Fit a third brake light.
5) Fit halogen headlights.
6) Fit electric windscreen wipers (replacing vacuum wipers).
7) Fit a windscreen washer.
8) Fit a heater.
9) Fit a windscreen demister.
10) Fit a towbar.
11) Fit a brake booster.

Many of these modifications do not alter the character of the car. The car, in common with many cars built up to 31/12/1963, does not have any of these fittings.

Anyone with a Zephyr, Prefect, Customline, Fairlane (tank + Compact) or early Falcon (XK, XL) will fall foul if this law in a similar way.

I'd like to see people with veteran & vintage cars having to make theirs fully current ADR compliant if and when they fit blinkers or electric starters.

[The Yeti]

At this stage the from whats been told my understandign is 3 major modifications, so engien/drive line & front a reas suspension

late model engine, RRS front end and 4 bar rear in an XY and it's an ICV your 1971 falcon now has to comply with all the emmissions, and safety requirements of an 2010 car

same goes for XK - XPs through in a 250, put in Disc brakes and a BW diff and there you go if sucsessfull you now have to make it comply to 2010

Now in 2010 its going to be difficult, what happens when all vehicels require ABS, Air bags and dynamic stability control as part of standard ADR's?

people have been asking for writen proof and I can understand that, unfortunatly its too early in the process, the current situation is they (the RTA) have discussed draft documents with stakeholders during meetings ..... they take our input.....and hopeful amend the drafts ..... thats how consultation works

There are no mature drafts out for any form of public comment ......it is too early in the process for that, we need to have our selfs heard so the Stake holders that attend these meetings sit up and take notice of our concerns, there are currently 3346 signautres on the partition I would love to see 5X that number, we all have gear head mates from all perswasions (even holden drivers ) pass it arround and lets get a peacefull protest happening

[TURBOTAXI]

Signed and facebooked - does this mean that there is no longer the pre-adr window?

[Franco Cozzo]

No one will support a move against a law if it doesn't affect them.

Then when it comes around to their turn, theres no one left to stand up.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

Signed and facebooked - does this mean that there is no longer the pre-adr window?

thats it,

[xe351]

signed and FB'd

the buggers won't be happy till we all drive camrys.

Can someone clear up something, if your car is registered before dec 2010 (regardless of age/mods) you scrape through on the old laws? and any new regos of older cars after that have to conform?

[Ghostlyhunter11]

Signed

[Quicksand]

Playing Devil's Advocate, i'm not signing up until more information is formally released by NSW. I will not make a knee-jerk reaction by signing my vote over to an issue that has not been fully publicised by both parties. Not until i understand fully the implications of what is being proposed.

Nothing personal against the petition starter, but who knows how the petition could be used. Will everyone get the chance to re-sign the petition if the information in the petition is fully or partially incorrect, or will our votes be used against the law regardless of how it is presented?

Am i the only one (except possibly Flappist) that wants to wait and give the law a chance to be formally proposed? It could have its merits? Sorry guys, i just dont believe in jumping into a lynch mob until i have all of the facts.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Spinner5711

10) Fit a towbar.

why would you be required to fit a towbar? or do you mean upgrade it? the rest of the adr's seem like they'd be a good idea, however, rather expensive to retrofit in an old car. i don't see why things like vacuum wiper would be a problem, at least is HAS wipers (as opposed to some vintage cars that don't have, say indicators. in all, a stupid law.

I don't know why authorities are so against lowering cars. i mean so long as a engineer says it's safely built it should be ok. leave it to the driver to negotiate speed bumps.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Playing Devil's Advocate, i'm not signing up until more information is formally released by NSW. I will not make a knee-jerk reaction by signing my vote over to an issue that has not been fully publicised by both parties. Not until i understand fully the implications of what is being proposed.

Nothing personal against the petition starter, but who knows how the petition could be used. Will everyone get the chance to re-sign the petition if the information in the petition is fully or partially incorrect, or will our votes be used against the law regardless of how it is presented?

Am i the only one (except possibly Flappist) that wants to wait and give the law a chance to be formally proposed? It could have its merits? Sorry guys, i just dont believe in jumping into a lynch mob until i have all of the facts.

A very smart and mature way to deal with things...

Get ALL the facts first and make a mature informed decision rather than a knee jerk reaction.

Also.. If these laws have no effect on you personally and you have no strong opinion either way the best thing to do is nothing, rather than buying in on something without all the facts just to support "the mob"...

[mrbaxr6t]

come off it 4vman are you not reading what has been written here the street rodders assoc. are the ones that are initiating a fight, have you ever met these guys they are for the most part of the more mature age bracket, and I fail to see them getting fired up without just cause more information would be handy but given the current information available this is way bad not just for car enthusiasts but for everybody. Nothing on a motor vehicle can be changed from stock this is bad regardless of age of car, you decide you want some new wheels for your car and find this is a modification so you leave the stock ones on, your exhaust wears out and you cant get one from the manufacturer as the car is too old and when you fit an aftermarket you cant have rego because it needs to meet euro 4 the way this legislation appears you buy a car and once the windscreen cracks or it needs new tyres you have to return to the manufacturer who may not have the parts you require, if they dont you are in need of a new car as the one you have cannot be registered because it has aftermarket wheels/tyres or windscreen or exhaust or some other worn out part, wonder if this extends to brake shoes as well if this legislation becomes law in its current draft then alot of people and alot of cars will be ruined.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

come off it 4vman are you not reading what has been written here the street rodders assoc. are the ones that are initiating a fight, have you ever met these guys they are for the most part of the more mature age bracket, and I fail to see them getting fired up without just cause more information would be handy but given the current information available this is way bad not just for car enthusiasts but for everybody. Nothing on a motor vehicle can be changed from stock this is bad regardless of age of car, you decide you want some new wheels for your car and find this is a modification so you leave the stock ones on, your exhaust wears out and you cant get one from the manufacturer as the car is too old and when you fit an aftermarket you cant have rego because it needs to meet euro 4 the way this legislation appears you buy a car and once the windscreen cracks or it needs new tyres you have to return to the manufacturer who may not have the parts you require, if they dont you are in need of a new car as the one you have cannot be registered because it has aftermarket wheels/tyres or windscreen or exhaust or some other worn out part, wonder if this extends to brake shoes as well if this legislation becomes law in its current draft then alot of people and alot of cars will be ruined.

The BEST decisions ive made in my life came from seeking out and assessing all the information and digesting it over time.

This is a NSW issue first and foremost so it automatically excludes 65% of the population, we're still yet to see all of the details so like some have suggested, lets wait till all the cards are on the table before declaring a jihad...

[james22]

Signed. 5090 signed so far.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

come off it 4vman are you not reading what has been written here the street rodders assoc. are the ones that are initiating a fight, have you ever met these guys they are for the most part of the more mature age bracket, and I fail to see them getting fired up without just cause more information would be handy but given the current information available this is way bad not just for car enthusiasts but for everybody. Nothing on a motor vehicle can be changed from stock this is bad regardless of age of car, you decide you want some new wheels for your car and find this is a modification so you leave the stock ones on, your exhaust wears out and you cant get one from the manufacturer as the car is too old and when you fit an aftermarket you cant have rego because it needs to meet euro 4 the way this legislation appears you buy a car and once the windscreen cracks or it needs new tyres you have to return to the manufacturer who may not have the parts you require, if they dont you are in need of a new car as the one you have cannot be registered because it has aftermarket wheels/tyres or windscreen or exhaust or some other worn out part, wonder if this extends to brake shoes as well if this legislation becomes law in its current draft then alot of people and alot of cars will be ruined.

So...you have seen the full proposal from the NSW Government? You know conclusively what is and isn't impacted and exactly what is being changed? You know the full reasons behind why this is/isn't being proposed?

I've no doubt the people you are referring to are nice folks and have good intentions, but at this stage without anything formal from the NSW Government this is at best hearsay and assumptions. To assume makes an '***' out of 'U' and 'Me'.

[fos408]

You guys shouldn't take your selves so seriously, it is not like the secret police are going to drag you away in the middle of the night if you sign

[68xtwagon]

signed Do you guys realise that we are better off helping our mates out because they are the ones we will be looking for when we need help.