Ford tried to save our manufacturing plants: Mullaly

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

What did they try? He's said nothing here, other than a bit of PR stuff to try & keep the media happy.


Holden are trying, Ford did not!!! And before I get 100 quotes, this is my opinion & I'm allowed to have one.

I just hope they have enough good senses to stay in V8's. If they leave that, that is the last straw for me..

all holden are trying is maximum profit and government handouts before they close . at least ford is honest

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by sbutler

Agreed...Its good to know they tried all they could to make it work. But in the end it was just a non profit option.. Sad..

With all due respect, I thought Graziano and the public affairs team spelt it out pretty well at the time of announcement. Its good to hear it from the Chief but for me, Graziano spelt it out loud and clear.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Doesn't matter if the Ford Australia worker is getting paid $25 an hour or $5 an hour, you can't compete with Ford Thailand wages and production capability.

Free trade agreement between Australia and Thailand killed Ford Australia.

There will always be a country that can manufacture cheaper than another. Problem is with us, every country in asia can produce for far far less which makes manufacturing in Australia unprofitable for international companies that have choice.

[82XD393.3v]

blaming free trade is a cop out theses days we have had it for over 15years now for one thing or another, at the end of the day if ford didnt trim down globaly we would all be buying toyotas ,mazada, great wall,daewoo,hyundi all the big 3 ford ,gm ,Chrysler where bankrupt or bleeding billions this ford ceo has changed it and saved the brand and turned the tables on japan lets be thankfull we will still have a v8

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

What did they try? He's said nothing here, other than a bit of PR stuff to try & keep the media happy.


Holden are trying, Ford did not!!! And before I get 100 quotes, this is my opinion & I'm allowed to have one.

I just hope they have enough good senses to stay in V8's. If they leave that, that is the last straw for me..

Mate, you're perfectly entitled to your opionion, no question.
In my mind they have tried to some extent. They were going to import a V6 crate motor which I'm sure they would have been able to make a heck of a lot cheaper than the I6 at Geelong but appear to have listened to consumer feedback that the Yank motor lacked torque. I6 is a Gem and customer feedback indicated people resented losing it so they made the effort to meet Euro 4 emission standards and customers are benifeting from the ongoing ability to purchase this brilliant engine. The notice period of over 3 years is the longest in any industry I've ever heard of, (granted maybe I need to read more business news).

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 82XD393.3v

blaming free trade is a cop out theses days we have had it for over 15years now for one thing or another

It's not a cop out.

Free Trade Agreements and the policy support that goes with it won't show its effects overnight, it takes many years for the true impact of these changes to be felt and this is what is occurring now, as "local produce" cannot compete with cheaper products from overseas that is imported with little or no duty or tariff payable - from countries that heavily protect their own markets.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by davenl5l

all holden are trying is maximum profit and government handouts before they close . at least ford is honest

I really hope you & everyone with the same opinion are proven spectacularly wrong in the years & decades to come. I hope Holden, Toyota & the whole automotive industry continues for many decades & can make great, profitable & world class products.

Time will tell who is right.

P.S. Every company (& person for that matter) is trying to maximums profit & government handouts!!

[castellan]

Don't worry our $ will be worth about the same a China in the coming future but if it falls below China we will not be able to build cars after that as well. because who is going to invest in this nation like GM and Ford did when we were a nation building nation.
But now we are that wealthy according to some, that it does not matter at all. i have talked to aussies that think we are 3 in line to the world they look to the 3rd world as something to measure australia with. and they think communism is good and i say stupid is stupid does. this nation is going to fail. maybe because so many have had it too easy that they can't see the big picture. we won't have unions to fight for better working or living standards we will become just slaves.

[mik]

Originally Posted by 82XD393.3v

blaming free trade is a cop out theses days we have had it for over 15years now for one thing or another, at the end of the day if ford didnt trim down globaly we would all be buying toyotas ,mazada, great wall,daewoo,hyundi all the big 3 ford ,gm ,Chrysler where bankrupt or bleeding billions this ford ceo has changed it and saved the brand and turned the tables on japan lets be thankfull we will still have a v8

I have to disagree with the free trade comment being a cop out, every year and in particular over the last 6 years it has become harder/more expensive to manufacture/do business here, manufacturing is the sacrificial lamb, no doubt about that, but do agree ford had to trim down to compensate.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

There will always be a country that can manufacture cheaper than another. Problem is with us, every country in asia can produce for far far less which makes manufacturing in Australia unprofitable for international companies that have choice.

The biggest expense is capital. Setting up 700 million dollar factory is the biggest ongoing expense. 150 million on a paint shop/presses is quite normal for an plant upgrade. Infrastructure for export - they are what drive costs. Labour and dont really make much of a difference in such a capital intensive industry, hence why Australia can be great at mining when they pay miners $150,000 a year compared to Africa where they get about US$1200.

Look at Germany, has some of the most expensive labour on the planet a stone throw from bankrupt or Eastern European countries which have far far lower labour costs. But look at them, one of the biggest car-making nations in the world.

Labour is never the issue, it is utilising capital. Ford didnt make enough cars here for the capital they had tied up in the plant - it wasnt efficent. They made stupid decision after stupid decision which has killed them. They could of been the biggest car maker in Australia. But they took a wrong turn.

They killed local Focus/Kuga even though the market had been heading towards higher content small and compact SUV vehicles for over a decade.

They killed wagon even though it was the biggest selling single Falcon variant (XT wagon outsold sedan 4 to 1).

They kept the I6 instead of going to global V6 - meaning they couldnt export to the Middle East, Europe and the US.

They brought in the Ecoboost 4 cylinder, but because they kept the I6 plant open they couldnt afford the Ecoboost to take many sales. So they kept one-armed tied behind the Ecoboost back so it didnt take I6 sales. They didnt even include the Ecoboost in the XR which was over 45% of sales and by far the biggest seller to private buyers.

They also couldnt put the diesel in the Falcon again because of the I6 plant and the minimum production it needed to survive.

With no local I6, they could of really tailored Falcon pricing and drivetrains to the local and foreign market instead of tailoring it to engine production volumes.


Really if they were going to kill off Focus, they should of killed off I6 so they could make the plant a sole Falcon/Territory plant servicing the world's niche markets with a range of global engines.

If they were going to keep the I6, they were effectively relegating Falcon to low volume production and would therefore REALLY need Focus to build volume.

Never had a chance.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Rodge

They were going to import a V6 crate motor which I'm sure they would have been able to make a heck of a lot cheaper than the I6 at Geelong but appear to have listened to consumer feedback that the Yank motor lacked torque. I6 is a Gem and customer feedback indicated people resented losing it so they made the effort to meet Euro 4 emission standards and customers are benifeting from the ongoing ability to purchase this brilliant engine. The notice period of over 3 years is the longest in any industry I've ever heard of, (granted maybe I need to read more business news).

I don't think it was ever about that. I6 was gone and V6 was coming as part of a $100m+ upgrade and then they found out they could upgrade the I6 for considerably less. On top of that I don't think they ever disclosed how much it would've cost to shut down Geelong early. The packaging benefits over the short V6 wouldn't have been seen until the next all new model anyway I believe, which could've been 2016 minimum still.

[Buntz]

What Mulally and the rest of the dullards did was hold meetings on the situation for seven years... and in that entire time, do nothing to save it.

[robertjp]

Which in the end was exactly what they wanted and got!

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I really hope you & everyone with the same opinion are proven spectacularly wrong in the years & decades to come. I hope Holden, Toyota & the whole automotive industry continues for many decades & can make great, profitable & world class products.

Time will tell who is right.

P.S. Every company (& person for that matter) is trying to maximums profit & government handouts!!

I hope I am wrong too!

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Labour is never the issue, it is utilising capital. Ford didnt make enough cars here for the capital they had tied up in the plant - it wasnt efficent. They made stupid decision after stupid decision which has killed them. They could of been the biggest car maker in Australia. But they took a wrong turn.

Really, You should have been there yesterday when Holden convinced there employees to take a pay cut so Holden could last a little longer.

They killed local Focus/Kuga even though the market had been heading towards higher content small and compact SUV vehicles for over a decade.
Yup. Sure. So you have done the calculations and worked out through your extensive knowledge in mass production experience that Ford should have built Kugas and Focus here cause they would be more profitable long term for doing so.


They killed wagon even though it was the biggest selling single Falcon variant (XT wagon outsold sedan 4 to 1).

Yup and who were buying them? Telstra. Were they committed to buying them long term? No. Ford saw the writing on the wall and dropped off accordingly. The retail and small business demand for falcon wagon was neglible.


They kept the I6 instead of going to global V6 - meaning they couldnt export to the Middle East, Europe and the US.

Yup and be as successful as Holden and toyota whom are both dying with this program presently.

They brought in the Ecoboost 4 cylinder, but because they kept the I6 plant open they couldnt afford the Ecoboost to take many sales. So they kept one-armed tied behind the Ecoboost back so it didnt take I6 sales. They didnt even include the Ecoboost in the XR which was over 45% of sales and by far the biggest seller to private buyers.

If you think extensive marketing of the 4 cyl would help improve Falcon numbers long term, you are kidding yourself.

They also couldnt put the diesel in the Falcon again because of the I6 plant and the minimum production it needed to survive.

Same applies to a diesel falcon. People just arent interested in large sedans anymore. Want to know why mercedes sells out its entire range but cant move E or S class. Same issue pal.

Never had a chance.

You got one thing right. It did not have a chance but for a different reasons. Ford is a company whose main aim is to show as much return on investment as any business would. The fact that they have chosen to stop producing in Australia proves that it isnt as viable as say asia. They do not owe the Austalian public anything at all. We as a country have put ourselves in this position.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Struggo

I can't see the R&D team lasting more than 10 years. By then they will more than likely shift it off shore also.

Lets hope not as we need these skills to be kept downunder.

Give it 5.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz

What Mulally and the rest of the dullards did was hold meetings on the situation for seven years... and in that entire time, do nothing to save it.

Jut be grateful that during the huge Ford purge of 2006-08 our plants were not the first to go.
That is support.

I'll give you an example, Taurus plant in Atlanta was closed at the end of 2006 while still producing 200,000 cars a year

Why?

Because none of them were actually making money.

[monte.b]

I think the yanks wanted the falcon to fail so they could make more money importing those piles of crap from the usa and other countries ,the marketing was a disgrace ,when you compare the toyoto adds that were **** funny ,what did ford do ,well nothing really , i cant say i saw one add for the new 4 cylinder one ,maybe it was a top secret ,and the territory diesel ,never seen an add for that either ,they never had any intention of selling the cars ,just get a bit more money off the gove and send it back home to the good old usa to prop their sales up there ,ive been a ford man all my life but ill never buy one of those imported piles of rubbish ,yer im a bit angry still about it

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Jut be grateful that during the huge Ford purge of 2006-08 our plants were not the first to go.
That is support.

I'll give you an example, Taurus plant in Atlanta was closed at the end of 2006 while still producing 200,000 cars a year

Why?

Because none of them were actually making money.

Maybe because there was anther plant building the Taurus that could fill the gap. If there was another plant building Falcon/ Territory we would have been the first!!

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by monte.b

I think the yanks wanted the falcon to fail so they could make more money importing those piles of crap from the usa and other countries

,

Shock horror!!! A company wants to make money!


But, what a load of turd, a company spending money just hoping a car will fail...

"hey, lets spend XXX billion on the products and factory so it fails!"

Originally Posted by monte.b

the marketing was a disgrace ,when you compare the toyoto adds that were **** funny ,what did ford do ,well nothing really , i cant say i saw one add for the new 4 cylinder one ,maybe it was a top secret ,and the territory diesel ,never seen an add for that either ,

I saw some, on TV, Facebook, Internet, Radio, Paper...easier to rubbish for though...

Originally Posted by monte.b

they never had any intention of selling the cars ,just get a bit more money off the gove and send it back home to the good old usa to prop their sales up there

"hey, lets spend XXX billion on the products and factory, we don't really want to sell them though, we'll rather make millions in losses, don't worry, the gov will just make the losses less!"

Originally Posted by monte.b

ive been a ford man all my life but ill never buy one of those imported piles of rubbish ,yer im a bit angry still about it

Your loss, My wife and I own a Mondeo ("imported piles of rubbish") and its a fantastic car.

[MyAU1]

Originally Posted by xr6man366

Screams of good cop bad cop.."blame me ..take the heat off the local team..."...does not excus the miss management and bad decisions made since Pollities was replace by successive incomptant internationals..or take into account the effect on the large trinbal like following for the brand..lots of expensive presentation and words yesterday that was quite impressive..pity that passion has not been driven from the top local brass for decades..too little too late

Speaking of Good COP Bad COP, Ford missed the boat on R&D. They could have designed a police specific car for the local market and then gone International. Starting with NZ. Hang on didn't we once have police packs for Fords? As a follow on they could then design a removeable Pod for the Transit Van and brought back the 'Divvy Van'. "I'm going home in the back of a Divvy Van", lol.

[MyAU1]

Originally Posted by monte.b

I think the yanks wanted the falcon to fail so they could make more money importing those piles of crap from the usa and other countries ,the marketing was a disgrace ,when you compare the toyoto adds that were **** funny ,what did ford do ,well nothing really , i cant say i saw one add for the new 4 cylinder one ,maybe it was a top secret ,and the territory diesel ,never seen an add for that either ,they never had any intention of selling the cars ,just get a bit more money off the gove and send it back home to the good old usa to prop their sales up there ,ive been a ford man all my life but ill never buy one of those imported piles of rubbish ,yer im a bit angry still about it

We will just have to wait until 2016 to find out if the V8 Mustangs are "Imported Piles of Rubbish"? V8 Ford Falcons, with Shelby badges and paint or the real thing????? Then there have been the Falcon design changes and faults....Based on this alone can someone please explain why anyone would pay in excess of 50k for a local V8 Falcon when you will be able to buy a converted V8 Mustang for the same price in 2016? Local Falcon or American Muscle car? Is it possible Ford will keep some of the plant alive converting Mustangs to right hand drive?

[MyAU1]

Originally Posted by Gassy

Which is odd - considering statistically Australians are getting larger/fatter.. You would assume there would be a need for larger cars - just sayin

Does this mean there will be no place in OZ for an American Muscle Car? lol


1st Car

1966 Mark 1 Cortina, 1981 Falcon, 1999 Falcon & a 2006 Falcon.

All of which had/have their faults. The cheapest to fix was the Cortina, which had common starter motor problem. A wedge of timber was used to fix the fault as the starter would come lose and knock against the motor. The Combination Switch on the BF may take a little extra to repair though!!!

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by rdmr

Did they ask the workers?
Did they ask the union?
No.
Then they did NOT do all they could have.

Did they ask the customers who left Falcon?

[69XWGT]

It's just lip service and damage control all wrapped up in one


These over paid executives really need to have a look at some of the history on car sales and the like in Australia.

Polites summed it up nicely when he said Ford had lost an entire generation of fans due to their half arsed attitudes.
Don't expect anything different while you have bean counters running the show.

Still no commitment to the V8 Supercar program. If they were serious about the Australian market they'd be on the phone to FPR and DJR and sorting out a long term funding arrangement

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MyAU1

Speaking of Good COP Bad COP, Ford missed the boat on R&D. They could have designed a police specific car for the local market and then gone International. Starting with NZ. Hang on didn't we once have police packs for Fords? As a follow on they could then design a removeable Pod for the Transit Van and brought back the 'Divvy Van'. "I'm going home in the back of a Divvy Van", lol.

I've helped build Victoria Police "brawler vans" with the pod on the back, they used those crappy VW vans and Mercedes Vitos.

Ambulance Victoria also uses Ford Territory for their Mica Paramedic vehicles which I've also fitted out.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by 69XWGT

It's just lip service and damage control all wrapped up in one


These over paid executives really need to have a look at some of the history on car sales and the like in Australia.

Polites summed it up nicely when he said Ford had lost an entire generation of fans due to their half arsed attitudes.
Don't expect anything different while you have bean counters running the show.

Still no commitment to the V8 Supercar program. If they were serious about the Australian market they'd be on the phone to FPR and DJR and sorting out a long term funding arrangement

Geoff Polites was an amazing man with such a passion for Ford. Man, we could do with him today RIP.

But...

Lost an entire generation of fans? What...when Ford went number 1 and stayed number without a V8 all through the 80s? Or when Ford was still number 1 in 1995? Falcon not selling has nothing to do with Supercars or V8s. Those times may have had an impact in the 70s but not thereafter.

Holden and the Commodore were dead in the late 80s. They were bailed out prior to the VN. The VN was a last ditched effort. If the EA was not so rushed on release - there would not be a Holden today.

[malazn mafia]

Had a weird dream of a machine the size of a spray booth that churned out Falcons to spec from blocks of metal, like a 3d printer. How far is this from reality? Would be able to make some amazingly rigid designs and bodywork changes are only a CAD mouse click away. Obtain a cheap power source and who needs third world labour

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Maybe because there was anther plant building the Taurus that could fill the gap. If there was another plant building Falcon/ Territory we would have been the first!!

1) Not quite,
The difference was that Ford effectively split the Falcon sized DN101 Taurus into two cars,
Mid sized Fusion and Full Sized Fivehundred. A couple of years later Mulally insisted on Taurus name returning.

2)Too right.
If Gorman hadn't been a skin flint and held fast for more government money,
Falcon could have easily ended in 2008 with no FG.....
We've all been living on the eve of destruction for years, it was going to eventually happen one day,
at least Fans and workers know it's three years. not like the poor buggers in Ford's other plants

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 69XWGT

Still no commitment to the V8 Supercar program. If they were serious about the Australian market they'd be on the phone to FPR and DJR and sorting out a long term funding arrangement

The Australian market doesnt give a stuff about the V8 Stupidcars. Number 1 seller for the past 6 months has either been the Mazda 3 or Toyota Hilux. No relationship to mainstream racing at all.