September sales numbers: Drive.com

[dimka100]

You know what, I have a number of friends all whom are massive car fans, yet they all drive Toyota's on a daily basis … yes they know their Toyota's suck and boring, but in their minds the Falcon sucks just as much … To them Toyota offers reliability, high quality build, easy resale, and good entry price, they don’t expect a daily car like that to offer anything else … In their minds an exciting sports car is something like the M3, M5, C63, EVO, GTR, 911 ... and that’s the kind of cars they will eventually purchase when the time is right.

They think the fact that the Falcon might have a little bit more excitement to offer than a Toyota is pointless as it still does not make it into a real sports car or that exciting car they want to own one day … that’s why they just don’t see the point in owning one, especially the more expensive range.

I personally think that Ford needs to realize that their brand has no real value proposition or fundamental position in the market place and that is what they need to tackle before they see any real increase in sales. With Toyota its simple, they build quality cheap reliable every day cars and that is exactly what people associate them with. With Nissan, they build supper fast yet affordable performance cars back with every day practicality and people respect them for that (GTR and the Z series). With Ferrari, they offer the passion of pinical racing, history, and pride, people lust for them. With Mecredec they offer bullet proof German luxury, prestige, and so on …

What does Ford offer? Why should people flog in their masses?I personally do not see an answer to that question …

Originally Posted by prydey

2000 camry's!!

i believe the camry is included in the medium segment even though its the same size as aurion. will the ecoboost falcon become a mid size car also??

good effort by camry i guess but it highlights the amount of people (or fleets?) that just want a mode of transport for a-b.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

not sure what you're after there? you did read the last line of my post i assume. if you have no emotional attachment and just need a reasonable sized family car, i'm sure the camry is great value. it also has the toyota badge on the front which says 'trouble free motoring' to many people.

i wasn't really having a crack at the car itself, but being a ford forum, the camry isn't exactly held in high regard. its seen as an appliance.

To you it might or to narrow minded people, I have driven many Aurion's/camry's and all have been pleasent experiences, enough to open my eyes and think twice about the vehicle/brand.

[Wretched]

Figures broken down by manufacturer
[CODE] Ford 2011 2010
Ford Escape 117 688
Ford Falcon 1,708 2,265
Ford Falcon Ute 752 917
Ford Fiesta 1,203 756
Ford Focus 821 886
Ford Mondeo 631 428
Ford Ranger 4X2 464 414
Ford Ranger 4X4 900 850
Ford Territory 1,395 897
Ford Transit 135 138
Ford Transit Bus 3 3
Ford Transit C/C 32 46
Ford Total 8,161 8,288

Change -1.5%


Holden 2011 2010
Holden Astra 0 0
Holden Astra Convertible 0 0
Holden Barina 504 914
Holden Barina Spark 250 0
Holden Caprice 205 138
Holden Captiva 5 426 373
Holden Captiva 7 753 812
Holden Colorado 4X2 104 169
Holden Colorado 4X4 930 834
Holden Combo 39 49
Holden Commodore 3,712 4,038
Holden Cruze 3,117 2,432
Holden Epica 87 120
Holden Monaro 0 0
Holden Statesman 0 4
Holden Utility 4X2 882 835
Holden Utility 4X4 0 0
Holden Viva 0 0
Holden Total 11,009 10,718

Change 2.7%


Toyota 2011 2010
Toyota Aurion 941 874
Toyota Avensis 0 9
Toyota Camry (4 cyl) 2,049 2,172
Toyota Coaster 25 28
Toyota Corolla 3,766 3,316
Toyota FJ Cruiser 209 0
Toyota Hiace Bus 371 158
Toyota Hiace Van 604 549
Toyota Hilux 4X2 1,030 1,099
Toyota Hilux 4X4 2,161 1,580
Toyota Kluger 970 805
Toyota Landcruiser PU/CC 749 527
Toyota Landcruiser Wagon 863 638
Toyota Prado 798 1,232
Toyota Prius 104 97
Toyota RAV4 1,254 1,400
Toyota Rukus 87 129
Toyota Tarago 30 107
Toyota Yaris 1,367 1,465
Toyota Total 17,378 16,185

Change 7.4%


Volkswagen 2011 2010
Volkswagen Amarok 4X2 48 0
Volkswagen Amarok 4X4 438 0
Volkswagen Caddy 127 127
Volkswagen Caddy Life/Camper 29 22
Volkswagen Caravelle 4 9
Volkswagen Crafter 23 86
Volkswagen Eos 40 197
Volkswagen Golf 1,664 879
Volkswagen Jetta 299 602
Volkswagen Multivan 56 71
Volkswagen New Beetle 10 21
Volkswagen New Beetle Cabrio 2 8
Volkswagen Passat 300 231
Volkswagen Passat CC 43 61
Volkswagen Polo 274 318
Volkswagen Tiguan 792 386
Volkswagen Touareg 165 26
Volkswagen Transporter 82 151
Volkswagen Transporter C/C 11 30
Volkswagen Total 4,407 3,225

Change 36.7%


Hyundai 2011 2010
Hyundai Accent 494 0
Hyundai Elantra 690 188
Hyundai Getz 1 1,487
Hyundai Grandeur 0 1
Hyundai i20 964 466
Hyundai i30 2,493 2,223
Hyundai i40 116 0
Hyundai I45 529 133
Hyundai iLOAD 565 490
Hyundai iMAX 197 159
Hyundai ix35 969 651
Hyundai Santa Fe 490 321
Hyundai Sonata 0 1
Hyundai Tiburon 0 0
Hyundai Tucson 0 0
Hyundai Total 7,508 6,120

Change 22.7%


Jeep 2011 2010
Jeep Cherokee 183 140
Jeep Grand Cherokee 445 30
Jeep Patriot 95 77
Jeep Wrangler 225 225
Jeep Total 948 472

Change 100.8%
[/CODE]

[Wretched]

By Fuel
[CODE] Total Market 2011 2010

Passenger Private
Diesel 1,428 1,831
Electric 3 0
Hybrid 197 139
LPG 18 18
Petrol 21,921 23,964

Passenger Non-Private
Diesel 2,210 2,297
Electric 5 37
Hybrid 494 633
LPG 235 412
Petrol 21,189 19,432

SUV Private
Diesel 3,149 2,815
Hybrid 19 32
Petrol 6,639 6,803

SUV Non-Private
Diesel 4,409 3,503
Hybrid 16 29
Petrol 6,546 6,502

Light Commercial Private
Diesel 2,781 2,506
LPG 10 18
Petrol 1,379 1,340

Light Commercial Non-Private
Diesel 9,388 7,641
LPG 103 224
Petrol 2,254 2,585

Heavy Commercial 2,426 2,293

Total 86,819 85,054 [/CODE]

[prydey]

seems i struck a nerve with a few people regarding camry. i didn't say it was a bad car. on the contrary. obviously its 'off limits' though.

i didn't mention aurion (falcons competitor) as falcon has that covered and has done since its inception. falcon isn't competing direclty with camry.

as for people buying toyotas for their quality... please. every manufacturer has good and bad cars.

Originally Posted by flappist

There is a small core of enthusiasts

yeah, in the big scheme of things its called AFF. this forum would be a very small percentage of the buying public and most people who participate do so because they enjoy cars (some even like lpg).

the falcon is also bought for transport but at the moment it isn't competing with a 4cyl large car that is 5-10k cheaper. i assume 4cyl camry and hybrid would be high on the list of many gov agencies.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Hmmm... I smell a rat! You could say that Commodore is consistently statistically holding its own, so what happened to Mazda??? Did a ship or two misplace their way to Australia last month or did Mazda push through forward (future) sales to only sacrifice this months sales volume???

Bud Bud

Could have something to do with Mazda doing a model update on 3...

I dont know how Holden continues to sell VE in the numbers it does, but every second fleet / goverment car I see is a VE, seem as tho they are definately the favourite these days...

[Wretched]

apologies forgot mazda
[CODE] Mazda 2011 2010
Mazda BT-50 4X2 423 492
Mazda BT-50 4X4 252 504
Mazda CX-7 698 1,076
Mazda CX-9 349 367
Mazda MX5 29 43
Mazda RX8 5 18
Mazda2 1,234 1,718
Mazda3 2,703 3,878
Mazda6 344 754
Mazda Total 6,037 8,850




Change -31.8% [/CODE]

[whynot]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I dont know how Holden continues to sell VE in the numbers it does, but every second fleet / goverment car I see is a VE, seem as tho they are definately the favourite these days...

Toyota and Holden offer great discounts to fleet buyers. The difference for the User-Chooser (out of whose weekly pay the money comes from) can be as much as $1000 p.a. One has to be a real Ford fan to choose a Falcon over a Commodore in such circumstances.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You can't add Territory figures to Falcon figures...now, more than ever, they are completely different cars aimed at completely different market segments. The Commodore is one model, as is the Falcon.

They aren't completely different cars, you'll find they share many common parts (bout 60%).

[charles_wif_xf]

Cruze may well spell trouble for Holden, despite the good numbers. If the margins are non existant, the red ink will start flowing soon. And red ink is no good for any local manufacturer...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

Cruze may well spell trouble for Holden, despite the good numbers. If the margins are non existant, the red ink will start flowing soon. And red ink is no good for any local manufacturer...

Its probably very cheap to make, engineering, design and component costs are spread over tens of thousands of Cruzes a month around the world. Imagine how much a Falcon or Commodore must cost when you have to allocate 500 million to a billion dollars in development costs over a tiny amount of cars.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Its probably very cheap to make, engineering, design and component costs are spread over tens of thousands of Cruzes a month around the world. Imagine how much a Falcon or Commodore must cost when you have to allocate 500 million to a billion dollars in development costs over a tiny amount of cars.

Exactly. The common theme is that apparently Holden developed the VE for a billion dollars because their losses weren't high enough previously. Then when disappointment set in over the poor losses they made, even when giving them away to stay number one in the sales charts each month, they decided to ramp up losses with the Cruze. A car designed to loose as much money as a medium size car can. Thankfully its helping in the losses and Holden can look forward to being a loss maker for many more years.

Meanwhile Falcon is firing on all cylinders (but not four at present), making nearly as much profit as the retail price of the car sells (almost) according to some and in fact makes more money the less Ford sell of them. A significant reduction in FG2 sales, should see Ford record a record profit for Falcon in 2012.

Ford are undoubtedly concerned the new Territory is selling too many and may make a loss as the number one SUV this past month. Ford fans having learn't that selling more equals less. No doubt they will be heartened by Falcon numbers and hopeful that Terrtory sales numbers will plummet next month, so new levels of profit can be achieved.

Nonsense I know, but many on here actually argue this stuff. Yes you can make efficiencies in production, but after that the only way you make money is by actually selling more of something or getting people to pay more for the same thing. Something Ford has locally had a patchy record of achieving.

Many here undersell the business acumen of Holden in the process of defending Ford sales, or put another way I don't ever think you will see a plea from Ford to please stop buying their cars, because its costing them money. It actually might short term, but every company wants to sell more and I am sure Ford Australia would be delighted to drop the "less is more" mantra if they could find enough customers to buy Falcon and Territory. The problem isn't they don't like selling more cars (like Holden), the problem is finding customers who want to buy their locally made product in Holden Commodore/Cruze like numbers.

[EDManual]

most if not all the lpg cars and commercials in that list previously would be falcons would they not? Thats about 300ish ecolpis if so.

[Joe5619]

You'd have to think Ford would be disappointed with the Focus number??

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You'd have to think Ford would be disappointed with the Focus number??

Most likely supply problems due to overwhelming demand in Europe.

[Resurrection]

Falcon didn't do as well as I expected. Will need to see a full month of EcoLPI sales before passing judgement.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by dimka100

I personally think that Ford needs to realize that their brand has no real value proposition or fundamental position in the market place and that is what they need to tackle before they see any real increase in sales. With Toyota its simple, they build quality cheap reliable every day cars and that is exactly what people associate them with.

We can go beyond the Toyota comparison of quality reliable cars that are boring drives to quality reliable cars that are good drives. I was able to drive a Skoda Superb the other day - a car that the press is putting up against the Commodore and Falcon - and the build quality made me deeply depressed about my Ford. It did drive well too, for a 4 cyl (there is a V6 which I haven't driven which would narrow the gap). The car is slightly narrower but the interior front to back and leg room dimensions absolutely wipe any Australian competition - as does the quality.

We've had two Territorys because we want a high car but if we ever went back to a low-slung, much as I like the design quality of the Falcon I could no longer accept the Ford ownership lottery of which is the next bit to fail/fall off. I'd go over to the Skoda (or similar high quality and reliability that is also a driver's car) and wouldn't give a moment's thought to a Falcon or Commodore I'm afraid. Which is not good because I'd prefer to support Australian industry - but sadly that's on a slide, and this is one reason why.

From the sales figures it looks like most Australians now think the same way and many of them don't even care how a car performs. You're right dimka100, Ford isn't a value proposition here, no matter how well they can design.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Meanwhile Falcon is firing on all cylinders (but not four at present), making nearly as much profit as the retail price of the car sells (almost) according to some and in fact makes more money the less Ford sell of them. A significant reduction in FG2 sales, should see Ford record a record profit for Falcon in 2012.

OK smarty pants explain how Holden has constantly outsold Falcon from
2005 to 2010 , had heaps of exports but until recently made a loss every year?

The answer is this, Ford is containing costs much better than Holden,
so back off the half smart comments regarding Ford's profitability,
you know absolutely zero about its cost base versus Holden.

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You'd have to think Ford would be disappointed with the Focus number??

Also, the Focus is significantly more expensive than it's predecessor, so they cannot expect to sell it in the same volumes they were acheiving during it's peak between 2006-2008 (which was around 1400 a month). I have to admit I was surprised to see a figure below 1000, but like I said, it's probably also due to supply issues from Europe.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont care if I "cant" combine, the only thing that matters is the number of Falcons and Territories going down the line. Local vs local is what matters and Ford need X amount to be profitable, if its equal to or greater than previous months then thats half the battle.

The commy includes the sportswagon, which is an indirect competitor to the Terry whether its "official" or not. Hence the inclusion.

The Sportswagon is just a Commodore wagon, like Ford used to make a Falcon wagon, whereas the Territory is an entirely different model...different body, some shared bits, but it's firmly in the "SUV" section and has grown more and more so with each change.

I suppose that given our tiny market, we should just be glad that any manufacturer bothers screwing together cars in this country at all instead of importing everything. Does anyone remember the "Button Plan" from way back in '84/'85, which was to "rationalise" the number of car models available to the public and cut choice down to a few models of certain vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_car_plan
It lead to the "badge engineering" that we saw with things like the "Toyota Lexcen" and abominations like the "Nissan Ute"...as if the public was dumb enough to believe they were Toyotas and Nissans...

No reason that couldn't rear it's ugly head again.

[jpd80]

Last month's combined sales of Falcon, Territory & Ute neatly coincide with the current production level,
Ford is selling everything it makes or more correctly, balancing stock to sales.....

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Polyal

How did a change of PM get in here? That will mean squat all.

Politics always seems to sneak in for some posters. Can't help themselves. Economically, we will be fine no matter who is in. Plus to quote Richo is a bit of a stretch.

Anyway, expected the Falcon to be a bit better this month. Hopefully next month we will see a marked improvement.

Australia is clearly still buying lots of cars and it is great to see the Euro Fords starting to earn their keep.

****

[RobVee]

i'm not sure if anyone has psted this but in the individual model numbers the falcon and falcon ute are counted separatly and the commodore varieties are all included the one total

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by RobVee

i'm not sure if anyone has psted this but in the individual model numbers the falcon and falcon ute are counted separatly and the commodore varieties are all included the one total

Nah they are all counted separately

Commodore 3712
Ute 882
Caprice 205

And HSVs on top of that.


Falcon 1708
Falcon ute 752

And FPVs on top of that.


Does anyone know HSV and FPV slaes?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Falcon didn't do as well as I expected. Will need to see a full month of EcoLPI sales before passing judgement.

It could also be that people have now seen the MKII and are holding out for it.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Nah they are all counted separately

Commodore 3712
Ute 882
Caprice 205

And HSVs on top of that.


Falcon 1708
Falcon ute 752

And FPVs on top of that.


Does anyone know HSV and FPV slaes?

The sales figures for FPV/HSV are included in those respective sedan/ute/lwb already.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Figures broken down by manufacturer
[CODE] Ford 2011 2010
Ford Escape 117 688
Ford Falcon 1,708 2,265
Ford Falcon Ute 752 917
Ford Fiesta 1,203 756
Ford Focus 821 886
Ford Mondeo 631 428
Ford Ranger 4X2 464 414
Ford Ranger 4X4 900 850
Ford Territory 1,395 897
Ford Transit 135 138
Ford Transit Bus 3 3
Ford Transit C/C 32 46
Ford Total 8,161 8,288

Change -1.5%

Thanks for the figures wretched.

The Focus is constrained by supply. Ford said as much at the launch. Don't expect supply to improve for nearly 12 months (when production switches over to Thailand).

Mondeo has consistently held 2nd spot in the medium section in 2011.

EcoLPi was in production from mid August, but actual sales didn't start until part way through September.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Last month's combined sales of Falcon, Territory & Ute neatly coincide with the current production level,
Ford is selling everything it makes or more correctly, balancing stock to sales.....

Certainly seems to add up that way. Just shy of 4,000 locally built sales for Ford.

I think if Territory stays in the 1500/mth +/- 10% that it will be making good money for Ford. Plenty of Titanium and TS Territorys about.

I think the there has been sales of 1400, 1650, 1500 and now 1395.

With the Territory production being linked in a set ratio to Falcon production, the only way to increase Territory sales is to move more Falcons.

EcoLPi will have it's first full month of sales in October. Hopefully, FG sales rise above 2,000.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by prydey

seems i struck a nerve with a few people regarding camry. i didn't say it was a bad car. on the contrary. obviously its 'off limits' though.

NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO.
Camry should never be off limits to criticism. In fact, the only time Camry and the words "off limits" should be used together in a sentence is "Camry is off limits for sale to the general public."

Perception has Camry as safe and reliable and cheap etc; all the calling cards of the bad driver.
Why is it Camry attracts the right lane hoggers, the underspeeders (40 in a 60), the serial stoppers (slam on the brakes in the middle of traffic to look for a number), the nervous wrecks capitulating about their GPS and its instructions to make a U turn; the slow turners, the generally lost and the biggest proportion of idiotic, ignorant and stupid drivers?
What about the FACT that they're the weapon of choice of those who recently immigrated here from countries where either a rickshaw, cow, bullock or a bicycle were the mode of transport, and this whole car thing perplexes them, so they buy a camry?

It's because these people who hate driving and are scared of it feel safer inside a refrigerator or other white good with wheels. They've been brainwashed by others of their ilk that Toyota is the best so they buy it no questions asked. They have no interest in driving and therefore no interest in cars, so they then spend the rest of their driving lives being moving obstacles for the rest of us. It's a scientifically proven fact.
What's also amazing is the number of camrys with badge engineering; TRD badges. Isn't that interweb and text-speak for Tard? Apt, very apt, I think all camrys should have them.

So Prydey I say no. We should never consider the camry as being off limits for if we do, it's just another form of politically correct censorship.

Yes Aualright I said political. I thought it was pertinent to the buying habits of the country where the private market and to a lesser extent the public fleets sales are flat in lieu of low business and consumer confidence exacurbated by political instability here, and the rest of the world. If you speak to the average man in the street, you'll find every one of them is worried about their future and the likelihood of having a job in the next twelve months. How this relates to buying a car is that less will commit to tying themselves up for 5 years of finance if they're not sure about having means to pay for it within its term. A new leader of the nation would make some changes which would affect business and consumer confidence. I mentioned no names as per T&C, but I would think in this economic climate it is a significant contributing factor to peoples propensity to buy new cars.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It could also be that people have now seen the MKII and are holding out for it.

That's always affected sales when a model has been out for a while and whispers of a "series 2" come out.
Until we bought our FG G6E, I had always followed the common philosophy of "never ever ever buy the first model of anything...always wait for series 2 at least". I figured it wasn't that much of a leap from the previous model so we should be pretty right.

As for the Camry statements and why "recent immegrants" buy one (bit of a generalisation there) it's like MacDonalds...if you are in a strange country and unsure of what to eat, go to MacDonalds...worldwide they have the same quality standards enforced very strongly, and while not a first class meal, you at least know where you stand with it.
Same with cars...if you are in a strange country, and you want to buy a car but are unsure what to go for, buy something you saw at home all the time...and that's Toyota...the damn things are everywhere, and a "known quantity" for everyone.
It might not be the most exciting drive, but like the Big Mac, you know where you stand with it. And it won't give you a case of Montezuma's Revenge because you decided to take a risk and go for something you don't really know about.