turbo four Falc will outpace a Holden Commodore 3.0-litre V6 - Page 2

saber · 10-02-2011, 03:22 PM

I wonder if it will be available in a dedicated LPG option?

Ford could be onto a real winner here: A dedicated LPG 4 cyclindar turbo engine (assuming it used a liquid injection or at the very least a decent vapour injection system). Good power, good torque, and fairly good economy. Would get a fleet managers vote, and my money if they could offer an up spec "XR" version.

Also, what about the current P-plater laws (in Vic anyway, not sure about other states).
I’m under the impression there was a blanket “no turbo/supercharger” ruling.
Could this mean no p-plater can driver an ecoboost Falcon?

Cheers

Road_Warrior · 10-02-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saber

I wonder if it will be available in a dedicated LPG option?

Ford could be onto a real winner here: A dedicated LPG 4 cyclindar turbo engine (assuming it used a liquid injection or at the very least a decent vapour injection system). Good power, good torque, and fairly good economy. Would get a fleet managers vote, and my money if they could offer an up spec "XR" version.

Also, what about the current P-plater laws (in Vic anyway, not sure about other states).
I’m under the impression there was a blanket “no turbo/supercharger” ruling.
Could this mean no p-plater can driver an ecoboost Falcon?

Cheers

Not possible with current gas technology because the Ecoboost engine is direct injection. Although I guess you could engineer a new system to take the place of the DI petrol system to a DI gas system but that is $$$$$$$

As for the P plate laws, I would imagine this didn't come into Ford's decision making much...

Grippy · 10-02-2011, 03:29 PM

Do we know what kind of torque figures this thing will be making?

XR Martin · 10-02-2011, 03:38 PM

Atleast 350Nm is my guess.

Dont forget it will probably be 100kg lighter than the 6cyl

Windsor220 · 10-02-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grippy

Do we know what kind of torque figures this thing will be making?

Wikipedia (not the best for info I know) says it will have 340Nm but the Explorer in US has seen up to 380Nm. So anywhere around there.

prasac · 10-02-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grippy

Do we know what kind of torque figures this thing will be making?

heaps cos it's turbo

the engine will be a decent whack lighter. 2L full alloy engine. will probably only run 2 miniature turbo's.

blueoval · 10-02-2011, 03:42 PM

Thats still good torque figures. Wonder if there is any tuners out there game enough to tweak these to see what can really be got out of them.

**Polyal** · 10-02-2011, 03:44 PM

Its certainly a massive step, because those who can understand the tech and figures should be able to see past the cylinder count....guess that means a really good marketing campaign is on the way.

The XR brand has been diluted enough with the XR6 n/a...the ECOBoost badge is perfect and "ECO" is the corporate tag for the greenies.

This car in theory should do well, I personally have no issues with Ford chasing fleets..whatever keeps the boat afloat...would be interesting to feel how it turns in.

SteveJH · 10-02-2011, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Not possible with current gas technology because the Ecoboost engine is direct injection. Although I guess you could engineer a new system to take the place of the DI petrol system to a DI gas system but that is $$$$$$$

As for the P plate laws, I would imagine this didn't come into Ford's decision making much...

Arent HSV offering LPI on their V8's?

I thought the LS3 was DI...

prasac · 10-02-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Thats still good torque figures. Wonder if there is any tuners out there game enough to tweak these to see what can really be got out of them.

depends on what turbo's they use, they wouldn't be too big. 250+rwkw would be nice

blueoval · 10-02-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

depends on what turbo's they use, they wouldn't be too big. 250+rwkw would be nice

It sounds doable doesn't it? It might be easy to get that sort of power from a 6T but some people who prefer 4cyl running costs might consider this as an option yeah?

Is there word on this being a RWD platform still?

Grippy · 10-02-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

This car in theory should do well, I personally have no issues with Ford chasing fleets..whatever keeps the boat afloat...would be interesting to feel how it turns in.

Exactly my thoughts, this engine can only be a good thing for the future of the brand

prasac · 10-02-2011, 03:59 PM

Ford's very smart, not throwing everything into building a hybrid car.

people hear Hybrid they think nugget.

people hear turbo, they think fast and start to get a wet spot between the legs

Windsor220 · 10-02-2011, 04:00 PM

Can they afford to have so many engine options though considering Falcon at most could sell 3000 a month?

Ecoboost 4
N/A 6
Turbo 6
LPG 6
Supercharged 8

And there is still some talk of possibly an N/A 8 coming.

blueoval · 10-02-2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

Ford's very smart, not throwing everything into building a hybrid car.

people hear Hybrid they think nugget.

people hear turbo, they think fast and start to get a wet spot between the legs

Dam do I have my web cam on or something?

I agree with the Hybrid hype. People also think that turbo = hoon, but that isn't necessarily the case. If driven right a turbo can net pretty good economy and it doesn't cost an arm and leg to build. I forsee this being a winner for some as long as RWD platform remains.

prasac · 10-02-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Dam do I have my web cam on or something?

I agree with the Hybrid hype. People also think that turbo = hoon, but that isn't necessarily the case. If driven right a turbo can net pretty good economy and it doesn't cost an arm and leg to build. I forsee this being a winner for some as long as RWD platform remains.

u did, i'd go get that rash checked out it looks nasty

going to a FWD would be the biggest mistake they made. i drive an Aurion it's only 200kw but it get's some serious torque steer sometimes, FWD is no good for towing and u will probably have constant traction control so u can't light the tyres up when u want to

**Polyal** · 10-02-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Can they afford to have so many engine options though considering Falcon at most could sell 3000 a month?

Ecoboost 4
N/A 6
Turbo 6
LPG 6
Supercharged 8

And there is still some talk of possibly an N/A 8 coming.

Supercharged 8 is currently FPV's "problem". One would assume that the N/A will use many components from that project...the new ECU needed can then also be used by FPV too add what was left out at a later date.

From that list it would be hard to see all of them staying long term, but Ford could be testing to see what will stay come the next platform...although they maybe pushed in one direction or another anyway. But it gets the product out there now so it can be proven come that time.

But in saying that LPG has always been on the cards, the turbo will not go anywhere and you need an N/A to build a turbo, plus its the main seller at the moment anyway...who knows. Either way the consumer is winning. The I6's fate will all depend on what the US wants, I love it, but I can see good reasons and savings for it to be removed....but lets not take the focus away from the I4T.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Is there word on this being a RWD platform still?

MOST DEFINITELY...Dont give the media monkeys more rubbish to churn

Brazen · 10-02-2011, 04:30 PM

Im really curious to see how this thing drives, it could really transform it if there is a notable weight reduction.

These type of petrol engines will start taking over from diesel, as emission laws get tougher in Europe.

**TUF_302** · 10-02-2011, 04:48 PM

Hmmm, just imagine, a 4cly Turbo Falcon for a daily and a 335 S/C v8 GT for the weekend haha!!

**GasoLane** · 10-02-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Geesh more fleet sales, Falcon has one of the highest percentage of fleet sales as it is. Im curious why the private buyer is not being mentioned.

Could be because Fleet sales make up a huge whack of total sales.

Another thing is have Insurance companies changed their policies towards turbo's?

A while ago any turbo'd car, including factory turbo's like SAAB, meant a massive increase in policy price.

**Polyal** · 10-02-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Could be because Fleet sales make up a huge whack of total sales.

Another thing is have Insurance companies changed their policies towards turbo's?

A while ago any turbo'd car, including factory turbo's like SAAB, meant a massive increase in policy price.

You would think a policy change is going to be necessary, because manufacturers have been downsizing and turbocharging for a while now.

Example, VW's TSI engines, they must have a heart attack with those..LOL..im sure it cant be that bad..I think premiums revolve around driver history, location and age more than the engine itself.

happy1 · 10-02-2011, 05:06 PM

Polyal is onto something here. The VW's TSI is direct petrol injection, and if I am right the new Ford Ecoboost is also same injection technology (plus a turbocharger).

Just look at the performance figures you can get out of a VW 1.4 litre TSI. Then upscale this to a 2 litre, add a turbo, and then the performance is probably very similar to the old Falcon 4-litre inline 6.

I believe it was Mitsubishi starting the first cars with the direct petrol injection nearly 10 years ago. As usual they had some technical issues but with great fuel economy. The big advantage is that mixing ratio between air - petrol no longer needs to be fixed, and it can be leaned out a lot more, without getting pinging.

I haven't driven the Golfs TSI yet, but people tell they are great, so no reason to not look forward to this also in new fords.

Cheers

**Polyal** · 10-02-2011, 05:21 PM

Happy1 I was referring to the twin charged unit, supercharger for low down and turbo for higher up; would be interesting to know how insurance companies react towards them. But yeah, you can get a single turbo TSI aswell, both direct injection.

Many corporates out there must have TDI's in their range, so its basically the same thing. The father in laws Mk5 TDI hammers for what it is, smallish powerband but when its on its a hoot.

Im going to assume that a ECOBoost engine would actually have a more friendlier power output than the TDI's; would have to look into there torque graphs more, but gearing in these cars plays a huge role aswell, hence the ZF in the falcon.

**Luke Plaizier** · 10-02-2011, 05:25 PM

Er - the last australian made large car with a 4 Cyl was the Commodore Starfire? Wasn't the Commodore from back then smaller than todays Corolla? I'd like to see the numbers on that one.

Also, why is the Toyota Camry not considered a locally made 4Cyl Large car - that is surely more likely to be the most recent locally made 4Cyl large car isn't it? It's the same size identically with the Aurion, and yet the Aurion falls into the large category while the Camry falls into Medium?

If Ford don't rename the Ecoboost Falcon to something else just so it can drop into a different category they'd be silly.

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 10-02-2011, 05:31 PM

OK, do it myself:

VB Commodore vs 2010 Corolla Sedan

VB Commodore 2010 Corolla Sedan
Length 4705mm 4540mm
Width 1722mm 1760mm
Height 1371mm 1475mm
Weight 1220kg 1320kg

Lukeyson

Road Games · 10-02-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

OK, do it myself:

VB Commodore vs 2010 Corolla Sedan

VB Commodore 2010 Corolla Sedan
Length 4705mm 4540mm
Width 1722mm 1760mm
Height 1371mm 1475mm
Weight 1220kg 1320kg

Lukeyson

Hmmm no wonder those 5L VB's can almost keep up with my N/A 6 ... they are 600kg lighter ..

**Professor Farnsworth** · 10-02-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAZZLER351

Hmmm no wonder those 5L VB's can almost keep up with my N/A 6 ... they are 600kg lighter ..

they are only 114kw in 5l form, so i DARE say they have had some work done. Also i'm guessing the 5 litre would be heavier than the 4 cylinder.

Fev · 10-02-2011, 06:01 PM

I can't wait!!!......

To stick one in the Escort i will be owning by then

Falc'man · 10-02-2011, 06:03 PM

Being quicker than a Commode V6 isn't totally news worthy, lol.

**Polyal** · 10-02-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

I can't wait!!!......

To stick one in the Escort i will be owning by then

Hell yes, hopefully people stop putting SR20's in there.

FoA have been very very good when it comes to drivelines in general over the past decade, look back over what has come out and its hard not to be impressed by them; the I4T will follow suit I think.