Horror High Speed Crash fatality... - Page 2

**Polyal** · 18-08-2009, 03:01 PM

Well what was the point? Whether they called off the pursuit 5 mins before or even 10 mins no one knows if the same thing would of happened or not.

As for a solution, I would have thought one or two dedicated choppers would sort it all out, your not going to outrun one of them in a hurry and all they have to do is update the position. Would cost a fortune but they blow money of lesser things without blinking an eye.

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

You all missed my point!

Why so up tight? Geez!
Take a pill and relax.

The current system is not working and I put it down to the fact that the rules and laws are too tough. Those of you old enough to remember, think back 10 or 20 years. How many times did you hear on the news of a police pursuit going bad? Not often. In fact, how many times did you hear of a police chase period? Hardly ever, so what's changed now?

Most people on here will jump on the bandwagon and say if you break the law, cop it. Well, with what's at stake these days, some people aren't going to. Scoff all you like, but there is a definite case here about the rules and laws being too tough. If you think these occurances are going to stop with the new laws, think again.

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Well what was the point? Whether they called off the pursuit 5 mins before or even 10 mins no one knows if the same thing would of happened or not.

As for a solution, I would have thought one or two dedicated choppers would sort it all out, your not going to outrun one of them in a hurry and all they have to do is update the position. Would cost a fortune but they blow money of lesser things without blinking an eye.

You think a chopper hovering over head is going to stop the guy? I would imagine thats more nerve racking than party lights chasing you.

Fev · 18-08-2009, 03:09 PM

works fine in the states..

**Polyal** · 18-08-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

You think a chopper hovering over head is going to stop the guy? I would imagine thats more nerve racking than party lights chasing you.

Ah I see, quick to criticize but no alternative solution other than playing the bleeding heart and saying that the laws are too tough.

He thought he could out run the cops and he did, straight into a coffin, im not sure he would have had the same thought process if he knew a chopper was following, how the hell would you outrun that?

platinumXR · 18-08-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

You all missed my point! Why so up tight? Geez!

I must have missed it then.

The reason I get so uptight is that too many people jump on this bandwagon of "Well if the police weren't chasing them - they would not have crashed and killed blah blah blah..."...it's rubbish, naive and dangerous. I do no accept the notion that the police should not chase anyone as it is too dangerous or insurance covers it or there's too much else at stake or the system has failed or whatever - you don't run from the police.

If you can't handle getting caught for something that you should not be doing in the first place then you (crims or people in general, not you specifically LTDHO) need to pump the f---k up and pull over and accept the consequences of your own actions or maybe...just maybe not do the crime in the first place.

I get upset and bent out of shape as too many people see running from their own failings as a rite of passage and THEY are the ones at fault here causing the problem...not the police and I WILL NOT apologize for believing that.

The police, despite their failings; have a genuine, crap and thankless job to do.

**Polyal** · 18-08-2009, 03:31 PM

+1 platinumXR, couldn't have said it better myself.

DJL351 · 18-08-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

The current system is not working and I put it down to the fact that the rules and laws are too tough. Those of you old enough to remember, think back 10 or 20 years. How many times did you hear on the news of a police pursuit going bad? Not often. In fact, how many times did you hear of a police chase period? Hardly ever, so what's changed now?

Most people on here will jump on the bandwagon and say if you break the law, cop it. Well, with what's at stake these days, some people aren't going to. Scoff all you like, but there is a definite case here about the rules and laws being too tough. If you think these occurances are going to stop with the new laws, think again.

Rules and laws are too tough! What?

No, the issue is that people no longer regard other road users, the police, or the courts.
It is clear that he had no concern or respect for the law/police. As a result, he is dead. (thankfully only him and not some poor bloke out for a late night walk or something).

Lowering the rules/laws would see little change to the attitudes of these types of people - and on the flip side, increasing the rules/laws only hurts us, as it is clear that these types of people just don't care.

Look at the guns laws - Joe public handed in their weapons, yet the law breakers kept theirs and continue to commit crime using them.
Why were they not handed in at the same time as everyone else????.... because they don't give a damn.

Or 'glassing' attacks, while I'm not sure about other states, WA has seen a huge increase. (4 this past weekend)

Just have a look at the Supreme Court website in your state, you'll see some worrying stuff.

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Ah I see, quick to criticize but no alternative solution other than playing the bleeding heart and saying that the laws are too tough.

He thought he could out run the cops and he did, straight into a coffin, im not sure he would have had the same thought process if he knew a chopper was following, how the hell would you outrun that?

Critisize? Right. We should make the laws tougher then. That will stop all these chases and deaths.

Hang on a second. The report says the police stopped the pursuit. So, he had in fact already outrun them. Hadn't he? If the chase had wound down, the bloke surely would have as well, but the accident still occured. Why?

Fev · 18-08-2009, 03:38 PM

Because he would be trying to put as much distance between the cops and himself as possible..

This aint GTA where if you lose the cops they forget about you..

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

Rules and laws are too tough! What?

No, the issue is that people no longer regard other road users, the police, or the courts.
It is clear that he had no concern or respect for the law/police. As a result, he is dead. (thankfully only him and not some poor bloke out for a late night walk or something).

Lowering the rules/laws would see little change to the attitudes of these types of people - and on the flip side, increasing the rules/laws only hurts us, as it is clear that these types of people just don't care.

Tell me why we have so many chases now then. I believe it is mostly due to the fact that people risk losing in some cases their most prized asset. It wasn't like this 20 years ago. Neither were the laws. Go ahead and call them selfish or whatever else you care to. It won't stop this happening.

ltd · 18-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

I must have missed it then.

The reason I get so uptight is that too many people jump on this bandwagon of "Well if the police weren't chasing them - they would not have crashed and killed blah blah blah..."...it's rubbish, naive and dangerous. I do no accept the notion that the police should not chase anyone as it is too dangerous or insurance covers it or there's too much else at stake or the system has failed or whatever - you don't run from the police.

If you can't handle getting caught for something that you should not be doing in the first place then you (crims or people in general, not you specifically LTDHO) need to pump the f---k up and pull over and accept the consequences of your own actions or maybe...just maybe not do the crime in the first place.

I get upset and bent out of shape as too many people see running from their own failings as a rite of passage and THEY are the ones at fault here causing the problem...not the police and I WILL NOT apologize for believing that.

The police, despite their failings; have a genuine, crap and thankless job to do.

Damn straight!
I'm sick of the bleeding hearts when it comes to people who decide to flout the law. Simpy put, without laws, there would be anarchy. If you decide to speed excessively (like this guy), drive an unregistered vehicle or endanger others through dangerous behaviour with a car then you deserve everything the law has to throw at you and more. I submit that a little "inside" time for repeat offenders would help to stave off the increasing number of mobile organ donors we have now.

As for not hearing about it 20 years ago, that's because people weren't indoctrinated with the "your rights" nonsense leading them to believe they could escape persecution for their actions. In a nutshell, by in large people weren't stupid enough to run from the police and would cop it. Nowadays they think they can get away with it and endanger their own lives for the sake of a suspended license and a court appearance. Dumb really.

platinumXR · 18-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

Critisize? Right. We should make the laws tougher then. That will stop all these chases and deaths.

Hang on a second. The report says the police stopped the pursuit. So, he had in fact already outrun them. Hadn't he? If the chase had wound down, the bloke surely would have as well, but the accident still occured. Why?

Are you serious?

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

Because he would be trying to put as much distance between the cops and himself as possible..

This aint GTA where if you lose the cops they forget about you..

Funny.

I'm going to assume my usual skepiticism of anything printed in the media and believe the chase was not over, as reported.

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

As for not hearing about it 20 years ago, that's because people weren't indoctrinated with the "your rights" nonsense leading them to believe they could escape persecution for their actions. In a nutshell, by in large people weren't stupid enough to run from the police and would cop it. Nowadays they think they can get away with it and endanger their own lives for the sake of a suspended license and a court appearance. Dumb really.

How do you know what people thought back then? You are but one person, as am I.

By in large, people wouldn't run and would cop it because the penalties were nowhere near as severe. There was no risk of losing your vehicle 20 years ago. There is now. There was no real risk of inprisonment. There is now. I stand by my statement - there were very few chases 20 years ago. There are now.

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Are you serious?

Please explain your question so I may answer it.

DJL351 · 18-08-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

I must have missed it then.

The reason I get so uptight is that too many people jump on this bandwagon of "Well if the police weren't chasing them - they would not have crashed and killed blah blah blah..."...it's rubbish, naive and dangerous. I do no accept the notion that the police should not chase anyone as it is too dangerous or insurance covers it or there's too much else at stake or the system has failed or whatever - you don't run from the police.

If you can't handle getting caught for something that you should not be doing in the first place then you (crims or people in general, not you specifically LTDHO) need to pump the f---k up and pull over and accept the consequences of your own actions or maybe...just maybe not do the crime in the first place.

I get upset and bent out of shape as too many people see running from their own failings as a rite of passage and THEY are the ones at fault here causing the problem...not the police and I WILL NOT apologize for believing that.

The police, despite their failings; have a genuine, crap and thankless job to do.

Yeah agree with what you've said.... however I think eveyone has missed to subtle joke LTDHO was leaning towards.
(well I saw it as a sarcastic little dig anyway)

DJL351 · 18-08-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

Tell me why we have so many chases now then. I believe it is mostly due to the fact that people risk losing in some cases their most prized asset. It wasn't like this 20 years ago. Neither were the laws. Go ahead and call them selfish or whatever else you care to. It won't stop this happening.

Because these idiots see it as fun - a sport even.

20 years ago there were plenty of high speed chases - but in stead of being front page news, it was always page 5 or 6.
Also, as already stated, people in general had more fear (respect) for the law.

I remember one in WA, where one of the kids in the car was on the phone to Legal Aid when the car crashed - he, and three of his brothers/friends died after hitting a power pole. What was the call about/for? He wanted Legal Aid to call the police to stop them from chaing them because they had no intention of stopping. (the kids were all 13-15 years old and in a stolen car)

It comes down to a simple issue of people not having regard for their own life, and therefore no thought to others.
Let me ask you this - Whould you have done 160 in a 60 zone? If spotted by the cops, would you have stopped?
For me, the answers are simple - No and Yes.

Fev · 18-08-2009, 04:00 PM

Now THAT is darwinism at its best!

Teflon Turbo · 18-08-2009, 04:03 PM

i personally am not a fann of the Five - 0, BUT, on the scanners (in the past) I have heard them call off high speed pursuits and within seconds of summing up the situation.

as i was listening some of those descriptions of what the offender was doing would have been 1000% worse that what happend recently in bentleigh.

they have prevented many tragedies in my opinion and no one would have even known about it either.

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

20 years ago there were plenty of high speed chases - but in stead of being front page news, it was always page 5 or 6.
Also, as already stated, people in general had more fear (respect) for the law.

I don't agree with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

Let me ask you this - Whould you have done 160 in a 60 zone? If spotted by the cops, would you have stopped?
For me, the answers are simple - No and Yes.

Of course I wouldn't do that sort of speed and I do not condone it either. But, I can understand why people would be hesitant about stopping because of how much they potentially have to lose. This is my argument about the laws. Perhaps if they were not so harsh, people would stop and face the laws wrath.

platinumXR · 18-08-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

If the chase had wound down, the bloke surely would have as well, but the accident still occured. Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

Please explain your question so I may answer it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

I believe it is mostly due to the fact that people risk losing in some cases their most prized asset

1. The bloke was speeding BEFORE the police pursued him.
2. The police TERMINATED the pursuit, he did not outrun them.
3. "SURELY" the bloke would have not been speeding in the first place
4. "SURLEY" the bloke would have done the right thing and stop when the police indicated for him to do so...
5. What about the prized assets such as other peoples safety or lives, that HE he was endangering by his foolish action BEFORE the police spotted him?

Need I go back and quote ALL your post's?

platinumXR · 18-08-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

Perhaps if they were not so harsh, people would stop and face the laws wrath.

Perhaps if they were not breaking the law in the first place, then the police would pay them no attention.

Jason[98.EL] · 18-08-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Perhaps if they were not breaking the law in the first place, then the police would pay them no attention.

couldn't agree more

some on here need to take a chill pill and not blame the police for every moron that that thinks it's ok to run from them

grow up and let the guy take the blame for his own stupidity

no other person is to blame but him that is all

Redmund · 18-08-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

1. The bloke was speeding BEFORE the police pursued him.

That is correct. Noone said he wasn't breaking the law, if that's what you're trying to make out I am saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

2. The police TERMINATED the pursuit, he did not outrun them.

Ahuh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

3. "SURELY" the bloke would have not been speeding in the first place

?

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

4. "SURLEY" the bloke would have done the right thing and stop when the police indicated for him to do so...

Well he didn't. For what reason none of us know. I simply put forth a possible reason for it, and a suggestion as to why this sort of thing may keep happening in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

5. What about the prized assets such as other peoples safety or lives, that HE he was endangering by his foolish action BEFORE the police spotted him?

Not good is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Need I go back and quote ALL your post's?

I guess you do because your question is still unclear as is some of your rebuttle.

platinumXR · 18-08-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

Yeah agree with what you've said.... however I think eveyone has missed to subtle joke LTDHO was leaning towards.
(well I saw it as a sarcastic little dig anyway)

Fair enough, sorry 'bout that. Was too busy foaming at the mouth.

platinumXR · 18-08-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

That is correct. Noone said he wasn't breaking the law, if that's what you're trying to make out I am saying.

Ahuh.

?

Well he didn't. For what reason none of us know. I simply put forth a possible reason for it, and a suggestion as to why this sort of thing may keep happening in the future.

Not good is it?

I guess you do because your question is still unclear as is some of your rebuttle.

No really, are you serious?

FTE72 · 18-08-2009, 04:22 PM

Redmund, I really think you are using the wrong incident here to get your point accross.
This guy was clocked at 160 BEFORE the chase started. Complete fool.
I think the point you are trying to make is that perhaps some chases escalate for fear of the laws consequences.( That may be true sometimes, and may explain the increase in incidents)
In this case, the guy was a stain waiting to be washed down.
Lets be thankful he took no one else with him.

ltd · 18-08-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redmund

How do you know what people thought back then? You are but one person, as am I.

By in large, people wouldn't run and would cop it because the penalties were nowhere near as severe. There was no risk of losing your vehicle 20 years ago. There is now. There was no real risk of inprisonment. There is now. I stand by my statement - there were very few chases 20 years ago. There are now.

Mate it's simple, back then people had a lot more respect for the law. Back then we also didn't have every Tom, Dick and Harry or in todays speak; Mahmoud, Habib and Wassim involved with firearms and/or drugs desperately trying to evade the law. This is why we didn't have as many chases as there are now. I'll put it this way, at 1:00pm last saturday in Westfield Parramatta's food court, in front of hundreds of customers a man was stabbed numerous times. Can you remember that kind of thing happening 20 years ago in broad daylight?

Teflon Turbo · 18-08-2009, 04:24 PM

ltd big call on the racial point