Drive: Ford to give Falcon a heart start - Page 2

GS608 · 13-06-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 747jet

not everyone wants a terri ford need to bring the wagon alive the wagon its not selling because its the old shape ford need to show the australia pepole what ford can make and thay need to make the new shape wagon and thay will sell the sedan is not selling well because of fords marketing need to push the fg to fleet sales theres a lot of commodors going to gov depts and why is that god only knows and how many fg cop cars have you see on the road in vic not many at all why that ? fg has been out for more then a year now it does make sence to me.

ever heard of a comma?

i don't think a new wagon is important at all, if you want a work wagon the BF is there, if you want a luxury one the terri is there and if neither of these suit your needs then go and buy a sportswagon. It won't create extra sales, just steal ones of the terri and sedan.

Road_Warrior · 13-06-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 747jet

thay need to have a xr range as well thats why ford need to upgrade the wagon

Have you not read his posts? The Commodore sportwagon is cannibalising sales from the sedan and many of those sales are to fleets anyway - there's no profit in fleet sales for a big ticket R&D investment like a wagon that is going to sell in limited numbers anyway. Simply because Holden have done it doesn't mean Ford should blindly follow.

The BFIII wagon is a tradie's and fleet rep's vehicle and is built to order only, meaning that piles of wagons aren't sitting around on dealer lots unsold. They sell every single one they build. And they sell because it has 2 things that no other vehicle on sale in Australia has (in that class): load capacity and internal volume.

The investment required to make a new FG wagon simply isn't going to be worth it when FoA has scarce little cash to throw around on 'luxury' products like that. They've got to focus on the essentials at the moment.

phillyc · 13-06-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

While Holden was still winning the large car sales, Ford was only trailing by a handful of sedans last month. The difference, he said, was due to Holden's Sportwagon, which had found favour among private buyers.
.

So, that in itself is an interesting statement. ie C'dore versus Falcon sedan sales are similar. From this we can approximate wagon sales then. If the Falcon sold 2846 and C'dore sold 3683 then there is a difference of 837 units.

Burela said only a handful of sedans, so the C'dore wagon is perhaps selling 850 odd more than the Falcon wagon. Now if we knew Falcon wagon numbers we'd be set...

Still, it suggests that the C'dore wagon is probably selling around 1100 a month versus 250 a month for Falcon wagon.

As has been repeatedly stated, the C'dore sales are down overall, so the wagon has been cannibilising sedan sales. This makes it a very poor business decision on numbers only.

Ford has been wise not to release an FG wagon.

phillyc · 13-06-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Mr Burela said the company hadn't approached the Federal Government's Green Car Innovation Fund for grants for these fuel saving programs yet.

"We've been quiet on this. I don't want to go to Government every five minutes talking and asking for their support and engagement on things we're not ready to make a statement on.

"I want to make sure that once we're ready to move forward with our powertrain strategy that it's a very cohesive, a very comprehensive and a very thought-out plan.

"How we then engage government in terms of the Green Car Innovation Fund will then be an important part of the overall strategic direction and discussion. I don't stand there knocking on the door of (Industry Minister) Kim Carr,'' Mr Burela said.

I love this guy. Another backhander to GMHolden who basically announce any thought that they have and which 5 years later still haven't come to fruition.

phillyc · 13-06-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Ford Australia is also looking at direct injection, an automatic stop/go system that shuts off the engine when the car is stuck in traffic, and a next-generation LPG system that uses a more sophisticated liquid-injection process.

I agree road warrior about the DI. Certainly hope that DI gets the go-ahead for the i6 for use by middle of next year. I'm not an automotive engineer, so can't know for sure, but could they use the duratec / ecoboost DI v6 head design as a basis for the i6 heads?

We already know the i6 is getting liquid LPG next year (earlier press release from Orbital).

The stop-start system is available in an increasing number of cars including Mazda's, so this could be added quickly too. It's a relatively simple tech which can reduce city consumption by about 5-10%. (Mazda says 8%). That would take the XT from 9.9L to mid 9s!

Joe5619 · 13-06-2009, 11:01 PM

"The company was selling a higher percentage of upper specification (and more profitable) XR6 sports models (50 per cent) and luxury G6E turbos (43 per cent) to private buyers."

I'm a understaind this part of the article correctly in saying only 7% of Falcon sales are the base XT models?? That is a huge win for Falcon I would have thought.

phillyc · 14-06-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

"The company was selling a higher percentage of upper specification (and more profitable) XR6 sports models (50 per cent) and luxury G6E turbos (43 per cent) to private buyers."

I'm a understaind this part of the article correctly in saying only 7% of Falcon sales are the base XT models?? That is a huge win for Falcon I would have thought.

No, that is the percentage sales of each of those models. Still good figures though.

Joshvee · 14-06-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 747jet

yeah but times have changed and thats what the pepole want is a sportwagon of sometype i would love to own a xr6t wagon or a fpv wagon that would be tops

:

I would have bought a FPV F6 Wagon if there had been one. :evil3:

vztrt · 14-06-2009, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshvee

I would have bought a FPV F6 Wagon if there had been one. :evil3:

It was called the F6X and it failed due to lack of sales.

cm335 · 14-06-2009, 03:55 AM

correct me if im wrong but the f6x was 4wd. for him to say that he would buy a f6 wagon means that he pefers rear wheel drive most likely.

kpcart · 14-06-2009, 05:36 AM

Ford should have done a diesel for the territory a long long time ago (ie at least 2006) now it is too late, they might as well can the whole car. the market was there, it boggles the mind why they couldnt do it, surely it is not just one ,uninformed person who makes the decisions, so why didnt ford do this? no wonder ford sales are going downhill, they just have no common sense at all. oh well, they are a big corporate heartless company so i dont really care if they go broke eventually. but i think the territory diesel was a no brainer, yet we still dont have it....

Gobes32 · 14-06-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

No, that is the percentage sales of each of those models. Still good figures though.

That actually is the true percentage, Ford sell next to none XT's...... The G series and XR series are much more profitable vehicles so therefore Ford release special pricing on both those models. Also, because Ford does not offer the fleet discount as extensively as they used to, there is a very limited market for the XT due to the XR being only a couple of grand more.

Joshvee · 14-06-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by km220

correct me if im wrong but the f6x was 4wd. for him to say that he would buy a f6 wagon means that he pefers rear wheel drive most likely.

It was? hmmm ok well put it this way. In the last Top Gear Australia or the one before, they showed the HSV, or was it the SS wagon, to be faster round the track than its sedan brother.

If FPV made a FG FPV F6, 4WD or not, and it was as fast at least as the sedan, I'd definitely have bought one.

I think Ford models fail due to lack of marketing. You know until I bought my F6 and joined this forum, I had never heard of FPV, Typhoon and Super Pursuit etc.
But I knew all about Holden’s HSV range and SS/SSV range. I don't understand why such a large company forgoes adequate marketing. If Ford doesn’t understand that marketing is the number 1 priority of any company, they don't deserve to survive.

phillyc · 14-06-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

That actually is the true percentage, Ford sell next to none XT's...... The G series and XR series are much more profitable vehicles so therefore Ford release special pricing on both those models. Also, because Ford does not offer the fleet discount as extensively as they used to, there is a very limited market for the XT due to the XR being only a couple of grand more.

Gobes, thanks for the correction! That is great news

In another thread Bossxr8 said that the XT was only comprising 4.4% of sales! Compared to 52% in the BF! Massive difference.

I do then query the splits.
50% for XR6
43% for G6ET
4.4% for XT
Leaving just 2.6% for XR6T, XR8, G6 & G6E.

4Vman · 14-06-2009, 07:35 PM

Last week i read a split for FG: approx 33% XR, 33% Base XT, 33% Luxury G6...

Gobes32 · 14-06-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Last week i read a split for FG: approx 33% XR, 33% Base XT, 33% Luxury G6...

That is probably closer to the mark so far this year, maybe Ford are offering fleet deals on the XT to preferred customers to ensure the factory keeps ticking over?

Crazed · 15-06-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Unfortunately the last time Ford had an XR wagon range it bombed and they made a loss due to no one really wanting it (been discussed many times).

Why is 1994 (15 years ago) always used as an excuse for no XR wagon? Totally different era when the EF was out, back then the mum and dads were more likely to buy a Fairmont and Futura, XRs were a very small part of the Falcon market. Nowadays 50% of private buyers buy an XR, a modern XR wagon would sell.
Just look at how many SV6, SS and SSVs Sportwagons around, Holden has done the groundwork establishing the performance wagon market, it would be good to see Ford capitalise on it, although its very obvious its not going to happen.

Crazed · 15-06-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

As has been repeatedly stated, the C'dore sales are down overall, so the wagon has been cannibilising sedan sales. This makes it a very poor business decision on numbers only.

Ford has been wise not to release an FG wagon.

The Sportwagon has outsold the Territory since being on sale. Territory volumes have almost halved since the Sportwagon has been released. I would hazard a guess that the Sportwagon has been just as effective as stealing sales from the Ford Territory.

4Vman · 15-06-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazed

The Sportwagon has outsold the Territory since being on sale. Territory volumes have almost halved since the Sportwagon has been released. I would hazard a guess that the Sportwagon has been just as effective as stealing sales from the Ford Territory.

BS... For every "sportshatch" sold holden sell 1 less sedan, so that statement makes no sense..
The sportshatch is so similar to the sedan it almost makes the sedan redundant, which is why IMO holden arent seeing any incremental sales from it..
Id say the increasing number of other SUV options have diluted the SUV market.
The sportshatch is not a SUV so i dont see it as a competitor to the terri what so ever.

mcnamg · 15-06-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazed

The Sportwagon has outsold the Territory since being on sale. Territory volumes have almost halved since the Sportwagon has been released. I would hazard a guess that the Sportwagon has been just as effective as stealing sales from the Ford Territory.

I think the main reason the Territories sales have halved is Tom Gorman who allowed Territory to wither on the vine and canned the diesel engine option. Not to mention that the current model Kluger is actually a very competitive model which is predecessor was not. Hence the drop in sales. This month with the mild refresh Territory on sale they have seen a small climb in sales numbers so that kills your crapwagon theory

vztrt · 15-06-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazed

The Sportwagon has outsold the Territory since being on sale. Territory volumes have almost halved since the Sportwagon has been released. I would hazard a guess that the Sportwagon has been just as effective as stealing sales from the Ford Territory.

The SY is at the end of it's model run. Numbers have been dropping as when i comes time to upgrade people are moving to another marque. Toyota has released 2 all new models and the Captiva has been released people don't want to buy the same model. The Holden Sports wagon isn't the same as the Terri as it has a small amount of space in the back & its the same height as a normal sedan. The SUV buyer doesn't want that, hence (as 4Vman has said) the wagon has taken away sedan sales.

Oh and as for the Ford wagon XR, you put the money up if you think it'll be a success and Ford will build it. Ford would love to keep building the wagon (that's why the BFIII happened), I'm sure they would have explored that option and found that an XR wagon would be a waste of money.

R-Design · 15-06-2009, 01:30 PM

Could the Green Car Innovation Fund (GCIF) see the I6 upgraded or possibly another engine produced in Geelong? CarSales goes into more depth below:

"My friend and colleague, Derrick Kuzak, who is the global PD [Product Development] head for Ford Motor Company is personally involved in working with us to help us to get to the best solution. Now that shows you the level of focus the Ford Motor Company is applying to get this right."

Indeed it does. Kuzak is the architect of 'One Ford' and that strategy will play a part in the future of both the locally-manufactured cars and the engines built at the Geelong plant. Presumably, Kuzak's deliberations may be influenced by the option of funding from the GCIF.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2009...-of-july-15472

R-Design · 15-06-2009, 03:27 PM

Go Auto's take on the I6 situation:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575D600156A5F

Road_Warrior · 15-06-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Asked if a four-cylinder turbo engine could work in the Falcon, Mr Burela indicated it might not sit well with large-car customers: “It is hard to say because once again you have the ratio of engine capability for the size of the vehicle and also how are you going to communicate the capability?

“It is really interesting because in Australia, people are very focused on the size of engines, the cubes ... whereas in other parts of the world there has been a change there.

Hrmmm interesting. Puts the kybosh on a 4 cyl Falcon pretty much right there.

naddis01 · 15-06-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The sportshatch is not a SUV so i dont see it as a competitor to the terri what so ever.

And yet whenever someone suggests Ford make an FG Falcon wagon on here they are directed to the Territory. Not everyone that wants a wagon wants an SUV style wagon.

vztrt · 15-06-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

And yet whenever someone suggests Ford make an FG Falcon wagon on here they are directed to the Territory. Not everyone that wants a wagon wants an SUV style wagon.

Problem is the wagon buyers moved (as well as sedan buyers) to the Terri which put the writing on the wall for the wagon.....but brought in nice profits for Ford.

phillyc · 15-06-2009, 09:27 PM

Sorry, if i've contributed to this getting off topic. But can we get back on topic? Prefer that to a Terry vs Wagon duel. Cheers!

phillyc · 15-06-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Could the Green Car Innovation Fund (GCIF) see the I6 upgraded or possibly another engine produced in Geelong? CarSales goes into more depth below:

Quote:

Support from the GCIF would possibly/probably -- take your pick -- spell the continuation of the inline six and perhaps introduce alternative fuel strategies such as direct injection, auto-stop/start, liquid LPG delivery... etc.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2009...-of-july-15472

DI and stop/start together could get the Falcon into the 8's L/km.

Quote:

"We said we would deliver fuel economy [from the current iteration of the Falcon's six-cylinder engine], we told [the public] we would deliver fuel efficiency, and we've done that -- and we're not finished."

Clearly Burela believes that the 9.9L is a great start, but clearly wants better for both Ford and the customer!

phillyc · 15-06-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Go Auto's take on the I6 situation:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575D600156A5F

Quote:

Under the direction of Mr Burela, whose first task as president was to reverse the decision to switch to the imported V6, Ford Australia is ramping up the promotion of Falcon I6’s fuel economy after the official combined fuel economy non-turbo cars with the six-speed ZF automatic was reduced to 9.9 litres per 100km.

New Ford print advertisements state that Toyota should be worried given the petrol I6 Falcon uses the same amount of fuel as a four-cylinder automatic Camry and that the E-Gas Falcon I6 is cheaper to run than a Toyota Corolla.

Mr Burela, who is keen on direct no-nonsense advertising messages rather than the vague ‘feel-good’ ads that accompanied the launch of the FG range before his arrival, said the new advertising campaign sent a powerful message.

He said a strong response from journalists and some potential customers, who were not away of the engine’s efficiency, showed the ad campaign was working.

“Australians didn’t know this,” he said. “I wanted to make sure that Australians really understood the fuel economy story.”

No-nonsense. Another reason to love this guy. You have to be straight to the point if you are spending less dollars and you have misperception against you.

Reminds me of Alan Mullaly, who has basicaly said, be confident but not arrogant. Have the facts to back up your statement!

rickster2 · 15-06-2009, 11:11 PM

Ford has been asleep at the wheel with the Territory watching the sales wither. The diesel has been so long awaited and a significant face-lift well overdue to keep competitive with competition. It was a great look for 2004-2007 but it's now in need of a major refresh! Time to take the segment lead back from the bulbous Clugger!