VW Passat Stop Start System!!

[kypez]

Those that hate on this system havent driven one or have driven an ex rental. They are smooth and flawless. I actually loved it on my little Skoda rental in Norway. At almost $3 a litre, every drop saved is a bonus! We are spoilt with cheap fuel compared to most of Europe (probably why they developed it before the yanks).

And I like to get off the line in a hurry and not once did it lag. Great system. It was -5 degrees so when the heating/AC started to struggle to keep heat, the car would fire up anyway if stopped for an extended period of time.

Once they start getting AC systems running similar to EPAS (well more commercially available), these systems wont have to start up even for the AC.

[TheSneakiness]

I think its not required. How much more fuel do you use idling compared to an auto shutdown sequence when you stop?

And it makes laugh each time I hear a MB/BMW/Audi/Mazda with it, just screams **** factor.

[Deo]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I think its not required. How much more fuel do you use idling compared to an auto shutdown sequence when you stop?

I can answer that: about 1 to 1.5 litres per hour.

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[kypez]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I think its not required. How much more fuel do you use idling compared to an auto shutdown sequence when you stop?

And it makes laugh each time I hear a MB/BMW/Audi/Mazda with it, just screams **** factor.

About 10% or so. Some claim even more. Though I'd imagine less than that...

Depends on if you're doing highway driving (zero saving) or driving in the CBD (most savings!).

[FG50T]

The real reason is to cut emissions. Effective for cars that sit in traffic most of the day in big cities. The selling point is it aids low fuel consumption.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by kypez

About 10% or so. Some claim even more. Though I'd imagine less than that...

Depends on if you're doing highway driving (zero saving) or driving in the CBD (most savings!).

I think 10% is a bit optimistic personally.

For me it would be an unnecessary feature.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I think 10% is a bit optimistic personally.

For me it would be an unnecessary feature.

Agreed. Its what I've read as claimed.

Its not as important in Australia I'd imagine. Our emissions laws and fuel prices arent all that high.

Though I'll say if you can save even a little, why not. It will add up to more fuel for the rest of us if everyone has this technology...

[4vxc]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Can anybody confirm if Mazda's i-ELOOP stop/start system uses the starter motor to kick it over when it switches itself off?
Because I could have sworn I read an article that said, because it's direct injection and the tolerances are so low on the SKYACTIV engines, they can fire the piston at TDC and don't need the starter?

we have a new Mazda 2, the petrol engine has 13:1 compression ratio and re-starts off the cylinder on the compression stroke somehow not the starter,
starts instantly

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by new2ford

It doesn't take longer, it's completely instantaneous (at least in BMW). There might be a couple of seconds in it at most. And I've always been one for the Le Mans starts at lights so if anybody would notice I would

It must take some time for the engine to restart, whether half a second, one second or two, and that causes further congestion as I tried to explain.

Say if you are in a queue with 10 cars in front of you and it takes a second longer for each to get going, 10 seconds will probably mean 2 or 3 less cars getting through the lights before they change to red again. Which adds those cars to the queue for the next lights change, which otherwise would have gone through.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

And it makes laugh each time I hear a MB/BMW/Audi/Mazda with it,

Well that's the point. You don't hear anything, just lovely silence

It's a city thing really, especially peak hour driving. Little use for it in the country.

[4vxc]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

It must take some time for the engine to restart, whether half a second, one second or two, and that causes further congestion as I tried to explain.

Say if you are in a queue with 10 cars in front of you and it takes a second longer for each to get going, 10 seconds will probably mean 2 or 3 less cars getting through the lights before they change to red again. Which adds those cars to the queue for the next lights change, which otherwise would have gone through.

takes no time to restart
if its a manual as soon as you touch the clutch or its starts
auto starts when you release pressure on the brake pedal
there is no measurable delay with the latest Mazda's

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

It must take some time for the engine to restart, whether half a second, one second or two, and that causes further congestion as I tried to explain.

In theory that's true but in reality it's quite instantaneous and within your normal reaction time. Also the reality is that there are so many dozy drivers at traffic lights it doesn't actually work like a Bathurst start. By the time the various mobile phones are put down, gazes averted from the nice sheila on the footpath etc etc

[smoo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Those that hate on this system havent driven one or have driven an ex rental. They are smooth and flawless. I actually loved it on my little Skoda rental in Norway. At almost $3 a litre, every drop saved is a bonus! We are spoilt with cheap fuel compared to most of Europe (probably why they developed it before the yanks).

And I like to get off the line in a hurry and not once did it lag. Great system. It was -5 degrees so when the heating/AC started to struggle to keep heat, the car would fire up anyway if stopped for an extended period of time.

Once they start getting AC systems running similar to EPAS (well more commercially available), these systems wont have to start up even for the AC.

Praise it all you want. Those unfortunate and ignorant enough to be lumped with this crap in 5-10 years times wont be liking it when the starters start packing up, or the engines wont fire up in peak hour due to a dodgy sensor etc, and we all know how temperamental tech packed Euro cars are once they are a couple of years out of warranty.

It's nothing more than to aid manufacturers lowered claimed co2 outputs to satisfy the Govt enforced environazis, to have motorists praise this BS plays right into their hands. Wake up would ya. There are easier ways to save on fuel.

[Nikked]

Never found these systems intrusive or annoying. Usually the engine cranks over as soon as you take the foot of the brake. Most keep a cylinder at TDC ready for a spark iirc.

[Deo]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

It must take some time for the engine to restart, whether half a second, one second or two, and that causes further congestion as I tried to explain.

As posted earlier Mazda claim 0.35 seconds.
And that's from when the clutch/brake starts being released, rather than the accelerator being pressed.

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[kypez]

Originally Posted by smoo

Praise it all you want. Those unfortunate and ignorant enough to be lumped with this crap in 5-10 years times wont be liking it when the starters start packing up, or the engines wont fire up in peak hour due to a dodgy sensor etc, and we all know how temperamental tech packed Euro cars are once they are a couple of years out of warranty.

It's nothing more than to aid manufacturers lowered claimed co2 outputs to satisfy the Govt enforced environazis, to have motorists praise this BS plays right into their hands. Wake up would ya. There are easier ways to save on fuel.

As mentioned, they dont all use the starter motor, but rather use engine smarts to do this. Maybe it might be an issue for a 5-10 year old car but I dont imagine keeping a car of this nature that long anyway so not really fussed about the longevity of the system.

And to a car company, why would they care? They arent in the business of selling second hand cars...

[Deo]

Well that just represents everything that is wrong with the industry and indeed the world: focusing on the short term self-interest and not building stuff that lasts. :(

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[richo77]

My girl's new Mazda 3 does this, it takes some getting used to. You can override it temporarily but not permanently.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by kypez

As mentioned, they dont all use the starter motor, but rather use engine smarts to do this. Maybe it might be an issue for a 5-10 year old car but I dont imagine keeping a car of this nature that long anyway so not really fussed about the longevity of the system.

And to a car company, why would they care? They arent in the business of selling second hand cars...

Whether you own it in or out of warranty is irrelavant because these cars will still be around long after.
Doesn't matter if they are started by the starter motor or not, they still rely on sensor input signals, ignition system and battery to be in top condition to constantly work for peak hr city traffic, maybe those who have the misfortune of owning these things out of warranty will find out the hard way (via the wallet).

[Nikked]

Remember when efi was a new wizz-bang bound to fail technology?

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

It must take some time for the engine to restart, whether half a second, one second or two, and that causes further congestion as I tried to explain.

It feels instantaneous in my Merc.

Originally Posted by FG50T

The real reason is to cut emissions. Effective for cars that sit in traffic most of the day in big cities. The selling point is it aids low fuel consumption.

I agree.
I understood it was to do with reducing emissions to help achieve the tough European requirements.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Deo

Well that just represents everything that is wrong with the industry and indeed the world: focusing on the short term self-interest and not building stuff that lasts. :(

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Can you elaborate?
Short term? This is just a small cog in the start of a revolution in the car industry. Fuel efficiency and emissions are an important part of the future of car manufacturing. Just look at what has been done with smaller engines because of the concentration of reducing emissions. Mazda have worked wonders with their SkyActiv engines and that isn't short term thinking.

What isn't lasting? I am not seeing what you are referring to here.

[Deo]

Sorry I was responding to the post immediately above mine from Kypez - not keeping a car for more than 5-10 years or caring about the reliability of older equipment.

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[smoo]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Remember when efi was a new wizz-bang bound to fail technology?

Was it? A bit before my time, but considering mechanical fuel injection had been in production decades before hand and early EFI was rather primitive I can't imagine there been an issue.
If so, at least EFI offered motorists cleaner burning, smoother running, more fuel efficient and better performing engines. This... is just another way manufacturers can get around the tightening emmissions standards... No real world benefit to the motorist.
Wretched, the revolution in the car industry isn't introducing irrelevant ideas to prolong the dinosaur internal combustion engine, the start of the revolution is to phase them out.

[mik]

Originally Posted by new2ford

From this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-stop_system

it's obvious that many manufacturers, including Ford, now offer it and they have varying approaches to managing the technology.


My old 1984 Range Rover still had the crank handle hole through the front bumper and onto the engine! But they didn't include a crank handle in the tool kit! Needless to say, I started it by key.

My old 1976 Nissan patrol had a hole in the body work in front of the crankshaft ........ And it actually had a working crank handle for the 3996 cc long stroke 6 cylinder if you felt the need to give it a start. .

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Deo

Sorry I was responding to the post immediately above mine from Kypez - not keeping a car for more than 5-10 years or caring about the reliability of older equipment.

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Yep its all just a 'throw away' society now......Bloody sad!

[MITCHAY]

I only really noticed it in my mates Golf R because they are quite loud which surprised me a lot.

I think there was a button near the gear selector to turn it off but I think it turns back on again when you turn the car on again.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Deo

Well that just represents everything that is wrong with the industry and indeed the world: focusing on the short term self-interest and not building stuff that lasts. :(

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I would agree mate, all these wizz bang features are often very complex and are good while they are going, but some years down the track when it goes pear shaped and the owner comes to the realization that his super fuel efficient car with wizz bang technology is going to cost an arm and a leg and probably one of his goolies as well to be repaired....... Perhaps a vehicle with basic simpler technology may have been the better purchase in the long run.

If you look at some of the wizz bang technology on some modern economy cars and add up the extra costs involved over a period of time........ It can work out to a lot of coin ........
I give you ........
dual mass flywheels
Diesel particle filters
Dsg gearboxes

It remains to be seen if the engine shutdown at lights will work out any cheaper over the period of time.......... One also has to look at whether you are also paying a premium for this stuff in the first place.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by mik

I would agree mate, all these wizz bang features are often very complex and are good while they are going, but some years down the track when it goes pear shaped and the owner comes to the realization that his super fuel efficient car with wizz bang technology is going to cost an arm and a leg and probably one of his goolies as well to be repaired....... Perhaps a vehicle with basic simpler technology may have been the better purchase in the long run.

If you look at some of the wizz bang technology on some modern economy cars and add up the extra costs involved over a period of time........ It can work out to a lot of coin ........
I give you ........
dual mass flywheels
Diesel particle filters
Dsg gearboxes

It remains to be seen if the engine shutdown at lights will work out any cheaper over the period of time.......... One also has to look at whether you are also paying a premium for this stuff in the first place.

Airbags, DSC, ABS, etc, we initially paid a premium for these features and now they are standard fitment. All new technology will be the same. Your Nokia 3210, how long did you keep that for vs newer smartphones?!

Gotta move with the times. Cars are cheaper these days and you get a lot of car for not much money than yesteryear. Fight it all you want, the days of cars running for decades with simple systems is a thing of the past. Use and recycle is the future, not resale.

[csv8]

Found the off button it is near gear selector but must turn off each time I start car . It drives much smoother, now ,