Ford: "We will never outsell Commodore again"

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

where you listing with your ears open??? I don't believe this for one second!! They is NO reason for Ford to stop this in 2012!!! None!!

Doesn't the world end in 2012 anyway?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPVGT500

I blame ford they didnt invest as much as holden did since the beginning, i remember in 2008 an article saying how holden spent $1 billion on the VE series and Ford spent half of that on FG so expect half the sale, what makes it worse the ****** marketing team Ford/FPV have got i havent seen an FPV commercial in weeks, has anyone seen the new HSV one with the V8 supercar? its absolutly better then moffats "wanna hear it again"

Ford spent $800 million on FG, and Holdens $1 billion included around $200 million for LWB and wagon, so in theory Ford spent as much as Holden did.

Originally Posted by robbo/region15

We were hoping Sales would have boosted for Ford in the new financial........
Yet again we go back to 4 day weeks this month as a Tier 1 supplier.Then being told @ Broady on friday ,the Ute is to finish in 2012,replaced by the imported Ranger........These are uncertain times for all involved with Ford.At the stage now,you just take it week by week,we dont know whats around the corner...

They have 4 days too much stock. There will be no more down days after this month for the forseeable future, as supply now just about matches demand.

And as for dropping ute next year thats untrue. The update this year will happen to ute as well, i've seen the mule utes with the front ends covered up, and they won't have to touch it for a while after that. It will face the axe come the all new Falcon in 2015/16 if sales don't improve, but with LPI on sale now it should increase sales but wether it will be enough to save it its hard to know.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And as for dropping ute next year thats untrue. The update this year will happen to ute as well, i've seen the mule utes with the front ends covered up, and they won't have to touch it for a while after that. It will face the axe come the all new Falcon in 2015/16 if sales don't improve, but with LPI on sale now it should increase sales but wether it will be enough to save it its hard to know.

How many LPI engines are you guys building at the moment? I'd be a little worried if the sales of LPI Falcons don't pick up very soon, as the product is just being ignored by the marketing team, which is such a waste.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford spent $800 million on FG, and Holdens $1 billion included around $200 million for LWB and wagon, so in theory Ford spent as much as Holden did.
.

And the only reason Holden spent so much on the VE was because of the new IRS as the old one was so ancient. Ford didnt need to upgrade theirs.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Paxton

How many LPI engines are you guys building at the moment? I'd be a little worried if the sales of LPI Falcons don't pick up very soon, as the product is just being ignored by the marketing team, which is such a waste.

Thought it was really only targeted for the Fleet market? So like the old E-gas they would be talking to the fleet managers rather then spend money on tv advertising.

[cartaa100]

anyone look at the poll?

hahah.

its a shame commodore buyers obviously arent willing to try the falcon as, im sure they wouldnt go back after trying it! better engines, more reliable, safer, nicer interiors, and styling but obviously most of aus prefers the commodore styling and its "better" fuel economy i find the trip comp on my old commy was simply for feel good! i rekon its claimed fuel usage and stuff were so bs! ahah

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Thought it was really only targeted for the Fleet market? So like the old E-gas they would be talking to the fleet managers rather then spend money on tv advertising.

It is, but I think that is a crying shame. Nothing, this side of a Diesel can offer you a large car, with Corolla beating running costs. I'm waiting for a G8E, but if I wasn't, a G6E on LPG would be a fine car; and NO, I wouldn't option a spare tyre.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Paxton

It is, but I think that is a crying shame. Nothing, this side of a Diesel can offer you a large car, with Corolla beating running costs. I'm waiting for a G8E, but if I wasn't, a G6E on LPG would be a fine car; and NO, I wouldn't option a spare tyre.

I wonder if they will do XR6 deals for $1500 more. Would be a nice way to share advertising cost.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Paxton

How many LPI engines are you guys building at the moment? I'd be a little worried if the sales of LPI Falcons don't pick up very soon, as the product is just being ignored by the marketing team, which is such a waste.

20-25 a day. It will be re-evaluated over time to see where its going.

They are aggressively going after the fleets, even to the extent of having a film crew in to make a DVD promoting the advantages of LPi for fleet managers to see.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Paxton

It is, but I think that is a crying shame. Nothing, this side of a Diesel can offer you a large car, with Corolla beating running costs. I'm waiting for a G8E, but if I wasn't, a G6E on LPG would be a fine car; and NO, I wouldn't option a spare tyre.

After the damage one of my tires took on the Waterfall way a couple of years ago (entire inside wall of the tire ripped out by a rock or something on the road), I have no intention of going anywhere out of town without a spare tyre.

But thats just me.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

And the only reason Holden spent so much on the VE was because of the new IRS as the old one was so ancient. Ford didnt need to upgrade theirs.

I'm not wanting to start a disagreement of sorts here, but credit where credit is due. Holden actually used the Falcon rear as a model and made it better than the Ford one.

Maybe Ford should try and do a similar thing, with some of Holdens designs. Copy it as such and make improvements in design so it is better. Might improve their sales in some areas of the market.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

No it doesn't, the Commodore does!!

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...715-1hgi1.html

That figure (fleet sale percentages) has changed slightly since last year.

To refresh our memory, these are the figures i posted last year.

Ford Falcon - 13,349 - YTD - May 2010

Private - 2,274
Business (small fleet) - 4,133
Business (large fleet) - 1,737
Rental - 2,744
Government - 1,528
Not For Profit Organisation - 414
Other - 519

Holden Commodore - 18,428 - YTD - May 2010

Private - 4,972
Business (small fleet) - 6,114
Business (large fleet) - 1,397
Rental - 1,451
Government - 3,005
Not For Profit Organisation - 185
Other - 1,304

[jpd80]

Thanks for the figures naddis01, it looks like Commodore leads Falcon in sales to private, small fleets and government sales.
These are areas where I thought the Falcon would be doing much better,let's hope EcoLPI perks up large fleet and govco sales...

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Thanks for the figures naddis01, it looks like Commodore leads Falcon in sales to private, small fleets and government sales.
These are areas where I thought the Falcon would be doing much better,let's hope EcoLPI perks up large fleet and govco sales...

Naddis numbers are 2010, the ones in the article from my post are from 2011.. As a percentage Ford sell more to private buyers..


last year is was 17% to Private buyers, this year it is 30%.. So much for the original article's head line!!

[mcnews]

Wonder if they could get some Falcons into China or India, the world's fastest developing auto markets.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Naddis numbers are 2010, the ones in the article from my post are from 2011.. As a percentage Ford sell more to private buyers..


last year is was 17% to Private buyers, this year it is 30%.. So much for the original article's head line!!

Thats actualy surprising. They had 4000 less overall sales but about 700 more private sales. Maybe people are taking notice of Falcon. Need to get the fleets back though.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by cartaa100

its a shame commodore buyers obviously arent willing to try the falcon as, im sure they wouldnt go back after trying it! better engines, more reliable, safer, nicer interiors, and styling but obviously most of aus prefers the commodore styling and its "better" fuel economy i find the trip comp on my old commy was simply for feel good! i rekon its claimed fuel usage and stuff were so bs! ahah

Remember that most people who buy these cars have a far different perspective than us. Aka enthusiasts.

Most probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the layout of a V6 and I6 let alone know what's "better".

Reliability? It depends really. Both sides have their fair share of lemons. I've known of Commodores that gone years without any major mechanical mishaps.

Safety? The Commodore still gets an ANCAP 5 star safety rating, so it's safe enough.

Nicer interior and styling on the Falcon? Well that's quite subjective. Not really a fact is it?

I do admit the VE looks a bit dated compared to the FG, but obviously there are people who prefer the VE's styling. Looks really can't be used as an argument as it's dependent on the individual's tastes.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Thats actualy surprising. They had 4000 less overall sales but about 700 more private sales. Maybe people are taking notice of Falcon. Need to get the fleets back though.

Its probably got more to do with the fact that they have been throwing them out the door for next to nothing than anything else.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by ESP

The Falcon should really have had an LPG and Diesel option 5 years ago........its now catch up time and the market has moved on. Companies like HYUNDAI , KIA and the cheaper Chinese Imports are going to slay the "local" brands and we will all see a complete turnaround in the types of cars we see on the roads in the next 5 years or so.

i agree


The main reason i don't want falcon to stop is it's been going for so long (second only to beetle?) it's record-breaking. i wouldn't even mind too much if they imported a taurus and rebadged it Falcon.

[prydey]

the falcon v commodore thing is getting so old that even the manufacturers agree. its just a handful of people on an enthusiast forum that compare sales each month and then bang on like little school kids about which one is better and how much better they could be if they were running the show. most of these members will never buy a new car anyway, let alone a new falcon of any sort!

GM Holden has higher overheads than Ford. they need to sell more cars to make it work. they are on 2 shifts as opposed to 1.

for me, the article wasn't saying we need a wagon, it was just saying that the commodore wagon has increased the sales of the name commodore, which they can't match with just the falcon brand. ford offer wagon in mondeo, and also territory. don't like it, then buy something you do like. plenty on offer out there. just don't whinge on a forum that the falcon doesn't come in every deriviative on the market. Ford stopped being the 'falcon' car company some years ago. they are here to sell fords, and are doing reasonably well it would seem.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Remember that most people who buy these cars have a far different perspective than us. Aka enthusiasts.

Most probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the layout of a V6 and I6 let alone know what's "better".

Reliability? It depends really. Both sides have their fair share of lemons. I've known of Commodores that gone years without any major mechanical mishaps.

Safety? The Commodore still gets an ANCAP 5 star safety rating, so it's safe enough.

Nicer interior and styling on the Falcon? Well that's quite subjective. Not really a fact is it?

I do admit the VE looks a bit dated compared to the FG, but obviously there are people who prefer the VE's styling. Looks really can't be used as an argument as it's dependent on the individual's tastes.

It did score one star for foward visibility though. I thought it was more important to avoid the crash in the first place.

[2011G6E]

Living in an area where a lot of workers get a new lease car every two years or so (occasionally longer), the commonest thing I hear about Falcons is "What the hell were they thinking of dropping the wagon?"

Seeing the numbers of Commodore Sportswagons around, it was sheer lunacy for Ford not to offer a wagon of some description. And don't simply say "buy a Territory then", as it isn't a Falcon, and I don't believe there's much crossover between a Falcon wagon buyer and a Territory buyer...they're too different a type of car, different class of vehicle, and if someone is after a car type wagon, they'll usually overlook the "four wheel drive" over in the corner of the showroom.

If they're serious about keeping the Falcon going, then they can't ignore the very attractively styled Commodore Sportswagon, and should be looking at doing something similar themselves.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

the very attractively styled Commodore Sportswagon,

see, looks are a very personal thing. what one person finds attractive, the next person finds ugly.

personally i think the ve looks like it fell out the ugly tree and hit every branch except one on the way down. holden weren't happy that it missed a branch so they made the sporthatch. got every branch with that one.

thats my personal opinion on looks.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Wonder if they could get some Falcons into China or India, the world's fastest developing auto markets.

I have suggested this plenty of times before, throughout this forum, yet others (you not included IMA) say I'm dreaming or it's not viable and come up with all this bulldust stats.

It'd definately work in my opinion

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

I have suggested this plenty of times before, throughout this forum, yet others (you not included IMA) say I'm dreaming or it's not viable and come up with all this bulldust stats.

It'd definately work in my opinion

Those denying it's a good idea are wrong, but there are a few drawbacks.

In China cars are LHD - currently not viable for the Falcon - and the high price of the Falcon would see more than likely see less yearly sales than in New Zealand in one month...

[AMGC63]

LOL, exporting Falcons to china is an "interesting" concept..
The base XR6 costs 35K here, no way around that, even with more sales, so try over 50K once its landed in china; the country with the cheapest manufacturing base in the world, the country manufacturing and selling cars for 10-15K....
Yep, what are Ford thinking..

[jpd80]

What about the notion that Falcon does not have to copy every move or product released in Commodore?
Sportwagon is there but Ford chose to do Territory, now with an outstanding V6 diesel and brilliant fuel economy.
Two different buyer demographics meaning both vehicles are successful for their respective manufacturers.
I cannot believe that Holden went with both Captivas instead of Captiva 5 and Equinox, the long wheelbase Yank Captiva....

Holden are obligated to run a two shift plant so Cruze is very important in justifying that plant's business model.
Ford on the other hand, is using a single shift business model for their plant and filling it with Falcon and Territory products.
The difference is that Ford says itdoesn't need to make Focus here so it doesn't need to justify a second shift for Broadmeadows.

Ford = one shift producing Falcon, Ute and Territory
Holden = two shifts producing Commodore, Ute, Sportwagon, Caprice (?) and Cruze....

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford spent $800 million on FG, and Holdens $1 billion included around $200 million for LWB and wagon the advertising Blimp, so in theory Ford spent as much as Holden did.

The money for the stupid blimp must have come from somewhere

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What about the notion that Falcon does not have to copy every move or product released in Commodore?
Sportwagon is there but Ford chose to do Territory, now with an outstanding V6 diesel and brilliant fuel economy.
Two different buyer demographics meaning both vehicles are successful for their respective manufacturers.

Holden are obligated to run a two shift plant so Cruze is very important in justifying that plant's business model.
Ford on the other hand, is using a single shift business model for their plant and filling it with Falcon and Territory products.
The difference is that Ford says itdoesn't need to make Focus here so it doesn't need to justify a second shift for Broadmeadows.

Ford = one shift producing Falcon, Ute and Territory
Holden = two shifts producing Commodore, Ute, Sportwagon, Caprice (?) and Cruze....

Agree..

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Ford are starting to do what so many other brands are doing in other industries, create unique products that hold their own market position rather than directly compete head to head with your dominant competition for diminishing market share.
It takes the focus away from head to head comparisons and pressure on $RRP.

[svo supporter]

Holden run 2 shifts and 2 lines.

The first line is for the Commodore, the 2nd line (new one) is for the Cruze.

The 2 shifts are in place to meet supply demands on the cars.

So Holden don't run 2 shifts just to cater for the Cruze and Commodore (and it's variances)

The Falcon could target the middle east countries, ala Commodore style. Not necessarily China. China is just an example.