Opinions on Chinese manufacturing.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

Interesting replies so far, although I agree with the overall sentiment of "you get what you pay for", in my experience a diligent consumer will always find a better deal.

Obviously getting a good final product is largely dependent on maintaining quality control on the factory floor but the main thing to consider is that most of these items are designed elsewhere and licensed to be built in China. Most products are designed so that relatively unskilled labourers can be used in the manufacturing process. It's possible that certain products would be of the exact same quality if they were built where they were designed. I would use my KRK studio monitors as a good example, designed in USA & built under license in China - yet they are the industry standard for sound production.

Another thing I've been thinking about is whether there is a moral consequence to our consumer-based society. For example, Apple inc. has been manufacturing their iPhones in China since the start and they are notorious for placing far higher emphasis on quality of manufacturing - rather than maintaining safe working environments for their employees. They wouldn't get away with using toxic solder in California, that's for sure.

I've tried to support local manufacturers but it's quite apparent that barely anything is made here.

I think the kicker here is that if quality and longevity are important to your purchase, do your research first. Make an informed choice before you spend your hard earned cash, rather than just guess. Quality products are still out there if you know what you're looking for. Price and country of origin don't always come into it, as this thread shows.

If it's cheap, and a long service life isn't important, then if it lasts it'll be a nice suprise! The last thing that failed unexpectedly was my Chinese made Toshiba laptop. It was only 3 years old and cost $1500. Motherboard fried - I was not impressed! After chatting with a few techs, I found that getting a decent service life out of a computer is just not realistic anymore - even premium priced computers - so I will only buy cheapies now on. I begrudgingly bought another Toshiba but this one was only $800. I learnt my lesson!

When I was choosing a new washing machine, I wanted one that would just wash my clothes, and do so for a long time, without me having to think much about it. My last washing machine was a Simpson, made in Adelaide, but I found out all their machines are now made in Thailand and are plastic, throwaway items. The new machine I chose is made by Speed Queen. They make coin laundry machines for the US army, college dorms and mine sites. Even though it cost twice the price of a new Simpson, it is tested to last for 25 years and it fits the bill nicely.

[4vxc]

I'm amazed so many people are happy with their Chinese products.
I used to sell cheap Chinese tools air compressors ect and the return rate was ridiculous
A mate just bought a couple of flat packed, powder coated 2 door cabinets from Repco for his garage problem was the back panel on one was fine the other cabinet all the screw holes were out by 10mm
I know not all their products are faulty but when it comes to spending for higher quality I always avoid Chinese where possible.

[cheap]

The important thing to remember is that their stuff is getting better year upon year. Huge numbers of Chinese people have gone to western universities and have learnt how stuff is manufactured and processed. These skills are being used in their homeland. Equally the Chinese government has invested heavily in industrial espionage, disregard for patents, reverse engineering and blatant false certification of sub-standard parts.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by cheap

The important thing to remember is that their stuff is getting better year upon year. Huge numbers of Chinese people have gone to western universities and have learnt how stuff is manufactured and processed. These skills are being used in their homeland. Equally the Chinese government has invested heavily in industrial espionage, disregard for patents, reverse engineering and blatant false certification of sub-standard parts.

What is this cheap?

[ba-wagon]

Originally Posted by superyob

What is this cheap?

Taking something, working out how it works/how its made and copying.

[cheap]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_engineering

For example, Apple spends a billion dollars designing, building and marketing a new item, a company then purchases the apple product, pulls it apart, measures everything piece by piece, gets the software and disassembles the software code line by line. They then build a near identical item, it hasn't cost that company a billion dollars.

When I worked at IBM, it was rumoured that IBM had teams of engineers who's job it was to pull apart competing products to see is any IBM proprietary technology and patents were being infringed.

[ba-wagon]

"Chinese products" covers such a HUGE range that you will find Very Good and Very Bad.
Some places are incapable of making high quality products.
Some places do make high quality products
Some places could make high quality products, but make things designed not to last

Many products these days are designed to look good (ie sell well), but not last - so you have to buy another one later.

[damo76]

Name one good thing that has come out of china which is better than something out of japan or anywhere else in the world. lol

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by damo76

Name one good thing that has come out of china which is better than something out of japan or anywhere else in the world. lol

Definitely not baby formula that's for sure.

[OCTANEBOSS]

Originally Posted by damo76

Name one good thing that has come out of china which is better than something out of japan or anywhere else in the world. lol

Base chemicals for ICE......

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by damo76

Name one good thing that has come out of china which is better than something out of japan or anywhere else in the world. lol

iPhone screen.

[castellan]

All motor bikes made in China are total rubbish and only a fool would buy one.
Pit bikes are just for brat kids as a toy.

[MattSAU2XR8]

My HP all in one desktop computer is made in China and its great, just a little dearer than some of the other brands I looked at. My Panasonic 50 inch Plasma is the same, although it was actually pretty cheap at $900 with an extended warranty on sale.

By comparison the RDA slotted front discs on my car are also made in China and were garbage straight out of the box - 0.12 mm runout in one quadrant of one rotor, and not quite as bad on the other. Got worse when hot so probably warped more as they expanded, hence constant vibration which has been driving me nuts. Brake discs and brake lathes were probably invented more than a hundred years ago so this is appalling. I'm not so sure though that this is because the Chinese don't give a &*(), more so the Australian distributor doesn't. I'm guesstimating that it'd only cost an extra $3.00 per disc to skim it properly before putting it in its box.

Australian quality hasn't always been great either - its probably only 30 years ago that Holden red motors had rear main seals made of FELT rather than rubber, which the Japanese were using since the mid 60's. And I can still recall VB Commodores literally breaking in half when young guys crashed them, and the seats ripping off the floorpan because they were poorly attached. VP Commodores had seatbelts that were so stretchy you were almost guaranteed to die in a 60 km/h head on impact. And Fords have until very recently (I think) been manufacturing coolant milkshakes.

Unfortunately when I look around the unit I rent the only things that I can find that were made in Australia are the fridge and its contents, and various cleaning products, and the money on my wallet, but not the wallet itself. The building itself is primarily Australian materials but this too will change once the Chinese figure out how to flat pack a building and stuff it in a shipping container :-(

I find myself thinking that I probably WOULD like to buy more Australian stuff even if it cost 50 % more, as long as it was 50 % more durable, or better designed in some other way. And this is probably the only way Australian manufacturing can be competitive.

Imagine what might have happened if instead of making the FG Falcon in 2008, Ford made a 'long life' version with a proper transmission cooler, thicker front rotors, better suspension bushes, larger oil capacity for the engine/transmission/diff, magnetic diff plug, an extra coat of paint, and a few other small mods, all of which would add perhaps $1000 per car in build cost, and ran a simple advertising program that said 'we are highly confident that nothing major will s&*t itself for at least 200,000 kms'. I reckon that would appeal to a lot of people, just like an old Kelvinator Fridge or Hoover washing machine.

[mr smith]

Stuff China. They and people that by cheap crap have stuffed Australia and the western world. Just remember when your children or their children cant get a decent job beacuse quality, value adding manufacturing is no longer done here. I laugh that most Australians think their job deserves to be highly paid but dont want to spend on something made by their neighbour.

[mik]

Originally Posted by damo76

Name one good thing that has come out of china which is better than something out of japan or anywhere else in the world. lol

chinese food ;).

[mik]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Stuff China. They and people that by cheap crap have stuffed Australia and the western world. Just remember when your children or their children cant get a decent job beacuse quality, value adding manufacturing is no longer done here. I laugh that most Australians think their job deserves to be highly paid but dont want to spend on something made by their neighbour.

i dont think it is the chinese peoples fault for the trading direction our illustrious leaders have taken us , that is all on us .

[superyob]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Stuff China. They and people that by cheap crap have stuffed Australia and the western world. Just remember when your children or their children cant get a decent job beacuse quality, value adding manufacturing is no longer done here. I laugh that most Australians think their job deserves to be highly paid but dont want to spend on something made by their neighbour.

And herein lies the problem. We demand the big money for ourselves but won't support other Australian jobs....

[razbarb]

Originally Posted by superyob

And herein lies the problem. We demand the big money for ourselves but won't support other Australian jobs....

And I think we are going to regret that our choices are disappearing fast as manufacturing disappears.
I agree that we can only blame ourselves.

[CoupeKing]

I support the little guy when I can....

I also still stand in the queue at the supermarket.

Grandkid's won't be blaming me.

[Pedro]

As snowcone and some others have mentioned, its about quality control. I had my own watch company and had my products made in China to my design and quality. If you demand (and pay), the Chinese can make a quality product to the extent that I covered my watches with a 5 year guarantee and had one of the lowest return rates in the industry.

I think for the most part, people who have encountered a shoddy Chinese product have bought an article wholly Chinese designed and manufactured for Chinese consumers.

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by Pedro

As snowcone and some others have mentioned, its about quality control. I had my own watch company and had my products made in China to my design and quality. If you demand (and pay), the Chinese can make a quality produ

You get it, most don't.ct to the extent that I covered my watches with a 5 year guarantee and had one of the lowest return rates in the industry.

I think for the most part, people who have encountered a shoddy Chinese product have bought an article wholly Chinese designed and manufactured for Chinese consumers.

You get it, most here don't.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by sprintman1

You get it, most here don't.

Yes, the old Chinese is cr*p chestnut.

At some stage an Aussie importer has gone to a Chinese trade fair where all the motor cycle factories appear, each displaying 100 models of varying price and quality, they then point to the cheaper model and order 10000 of them because the price is red hot, they'll sell at a profit despite any potential quality issues. But its the chinese who are foisting their rubbish on us meek aussies??
Bottom line, is an Aussie had to choose said rubbish to bring into the country, the factory across the road may have been able to build a better quality unit for not much more.

[FPV+fteT3]

I am a sales manager for a large commercial catering equipment company. We buy some chinese product, our purchasing officer is chinese, some of our chinese made gear is great some we should have left in china. I tell my distributors an dealers what to sell and what to avoid, however if someone wants to buy purely on price they buy the cheapest shyte we have and its luck of the draw if it works for any length of time or not. I ask our owner why we have this crap as for a few $$ more we have better choices his reply is, it all comes down to cost we need a cheap product to compete with internet, e-bay and locals who import similar crap at least our products carry a 12 month warranty on parts and labour.
Some refrigeration we have built using danfoss or aspera compressors, italian made controls and german fans all cabinets made and assembled in China to make them price competitive these are good quality and good value but there are cheap compressors and controllers too. It really is a case of buyer be ware with china you have to know what is inside the box.
One batch of fridges we were asked to sell from a chinese supplier the copper was so thin it was hard to silver solder the joints almost all had gas leaks and were impossible to repair our refrigeration service manager said for about $20 more they could had used thicker walled copper and not had as many issues needles to say we did not take this supplier on but they asked us to consider them for future sales I think they sent us 10 refrigerators more than half had lost their gas in transit from soldered joints cracking between china and Sydney.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by damo76

Name one good thing that has come out of china which is better than something out of japan or anywhere else in the world. lol

Even Chinese food is crap too

[WoodyAU]

You said 2-stroke 250. Did you mean that? I can't find a link to it.

[XG_Falcon]

Originally Posted by castellan

All motor bikes made in China are total rubbish and only a fool would buy one.
Pit bikes are just for brat kids as a toy.

I'm referring to a full size adult bike, I never said anything about pit bikes.

Originally Posted by WoodyAU

You said 2-stroke 250. Did you mean that? I can't find a link to it.

The 4 stroke bikes are a lot more common but I spoke to a distributor Thursday and he said Zongshen makes a good quality 2 stroke as well.

A friend told me he's selling his Kawasaki KX500 which has barely seen any use so I'm probably going to buy that instead.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

I'm referring to a full size adult bike, I never said anything about pit bikes.



The 4 stroke bikes are a lot more common but I spoke to a distributor Thursday and he said Zongshen makes a good quality 2 stroke as well.

A friend told me he's selling his Kawasaki KX500 which has barely seen any use so I'm probably going to buy that instead.

I know you did, they are the same junk only worse than the pit bike rubbish, but one would think the bigger bikes would be better.

My brother has a China 250 bike and a great wall, he loves just about everything Asian and even wants move to live their.

[Bill M]

There are also some rubbish Aussie, Japanese, German, UK and US made products as well. I cannot exclude quality made items from China from my options as that is not practicable nor smart.
My AU Falcon has Chinese glass in it from the factory! Many reputable companies use components from LCRs (Low cost regions) but have their own internal QC processes.
I will choose quality Australian made where I can over foreign goods even if they are more expensive because that is the best for where I live.
It is not difficult to do.

[Sprintey]

It will be a mix - my Chinese made compressor for my airbrush is going like a trooper 20 years later.

Our Chinese solar panels, very good product, best thing I've bought in a long time.

"Ka-ping!" is the noise the Chinese lock on my toilet and bathroom door makes as it hits the tiles after sailing through the air as the door shuts. The thread has worn so much it no longer screws in.

As for power tools, Japanese built Makita sander polisher now 21 years, Hitachi angle grinder 20 years, my beloved Makita router 18 years - all are in superb condition and were certainly built to last. Japanese built Ryobi electric planer pulled apart by me last year at its mid-life rebuild at 23 years. Kirby Vaccum cleaner, USA built at 15 years and what a real machine that is, the Mrs' mum's one lasted 35 and they are just so tough and simple mechanically. Superb build and can do many tasks. Our Aussie built Hoover dryer is a keeper. Pride of place are my grandfather's British built hand planes, 50 to 70 years old and work like new. Those will outlast me. Our family still surfs 53 year old Cordingley's Longboards from time to time, still immaculate condition - heavy density foam and tough 10 ounce volan glass will last a century or more. If treated well and maintained.

I love well built things, and like said below, something "cheap" is something so well built that it lasts doing its intended purpose for a very long time, irrespective of the initial price.

Perhaps it's not just China, it's how little people have wanted to pay for products in the last 20 years have driven the market to retail some very crappy products. I'm about to pull apart a Hungarian built Bosch jigsaw that has died within 3 years of use.

And yeah, it's sad to see Aussie manufacturing going, let's come back with higher technology making really high quality products that a market wants that can last a lifetime.

[Franco Cozzo]

Problem is making stuff which lasts will shoot you as a manufacturer in the foot too.

You've got all these products that are very old, you haven't bought new ones.

Need people spending money to keep going.