The "Golden Age" of Ford Australia?

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I would consider this era the worst time for performance orientated Ford buyers, and it would certainly not be a golden era, rather an era of shame, it was for me living through those years surrounded by proud Holden V8 buyers, while I was holding on to my 70's muscle car wondering where Ford was at Bathurst.

Era of shame??? Yeah, being on TOP is shameful. Please. Not everyone is in to Bathurst you know.

[tranquilized]

This is the huge contradiction that the Australian car market is, and now we're talking about it, always was.

I can understand why someone would call 1982 - 1995 as the era of shame - maybe a bit harsh, but the product really was lacking for a lot of that period. But as we all know they were at the top of the sales charts. Buyers were lapping up those asthmatic plastic XF's and tarted up Mazda's. Meanwhile the VL with a comparatively sweet Nissan straight 6, 4 speed auto, and superior handling was suffering.

And now what's on top? Toyota Corolla, HiLux, Hyundai's etc etc. The blandest, most horrible cars on the market!

Kinda like top 40 music I guess - the masses seem to love garbage.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

This is the huge contradiction that the Australian car market is, and now we're talking about it, always was.

I can understand why someone would call 1982 - 1995 as the era of shame - maybe a bit harsh, but the product really was lacking for a lot of that period. But as we all know they were at the top of the sales charts. Buyers were lapping up those asthmatic plastic XF's and tarted up Mazda's. Meanwhile the VL with a comparatively sweet Nissan straight 6, 4 speed auto, and superior handling was suffering.

And now what's on top? Toyota Corolla, HiLux, Hyundai's etc etc. The blandest, most horrible cars on the market!

Kinda like top 40 music I guess - the masses seem to love garbage.

Product was only lacking if you were strictly about performance.

I'd rather sit in an XF GHIA than any VK or VL. The Commodores were too small. They paid the price.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Product was only lacking if you were strictly about performance.

I'd rather sit in an XF GHIA than any VK or VL. The Commodores were too small. They paid the price.

That's a good point - the XF Ghia's interior was leagues ahead of anything from Holden at the time. VK Calais was ok but the VL was pretty bad inside.

[Bearman]

The '70's for me is when Ford had the coolest cars although the late 60's was a great build up.

The '80's was horrible. The music, fashion, the Euro chic and the total bland out of Fords beginning with losing the V8. Things got better in the '90's but it was never the same.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Bearman

The '70's for me is when Ford had the coolest cars although the late 60's was a great build up.

The '80's was horrible. The music, fashion, the Euro chic and the total bland out of Fords beginning with losing the V8. Things got better in the '90's but it was never the same.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take any 70s Ford over any 80s or 90s model. Having said that, from Ford Australia's point of view, the 80s - mid 90s were their Golden Age in terms of being on top.

[XG_Falcon]

Gotta say my ED Fairmont Ghia feels like it came from a "Golden Era" though.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

Gotta say my ED Fairmont Ghia feels like it came from a "Golden Era" though.

That's because it did. Beautiful cars.

[jmack]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Product was only lacking if you were strictly about performance.

I'd rather sit in an XF GHIA than any VK or VL. The Commodores were too small. They paid the price.

its funny you say that i thought the same but years ago when i had the dash out of my vhsle to get reskinned i sat it on my dissassembled xw at the time and was amazed it fitted perfect between the front pillars

[XG_Falcon]

I think the 60's and 70's were the real golden days of Australian performance cars - with Bathurst becoming so iconic... but the 90's was the decade when Ford really became great at building cars you would actually want to own and drive every day.

[jmack]

id say the golden era for fords was the late 60s early 70s when you could buy what you wanted not what ford wanted to give you.client;ill take a fairmont with a 302 column auto .ford guy ;no worries sir,client;and make it purple with white interior and chuck a gs pack in for the fun of it.mmm those were the days

[Ford Falcon XR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

2 eras: Bill Bourke, and Geoff Polites.

70's performance, coupes, racing, Aussie built components like the V8s and decent marketing ("Build your own GS")

Geoff grabbing the reins and doing the Barra Turbo and Territory programs. Actually advertising ("Can't get enough of this")

Both were MD's who well and truly got behind the Aussie product.


Honourable mention: Tickford tunes on XR6/GT's in the 1990s. Dedicated engines that became hand-built, dedicated suspension tunes, and wings. With AU more Australian design and content than any other car ever.

Being 22 I don't remember anything before the late 90's but this BA ad had a big influence on me. Even though I was only 12 it still made me want one till the day I finally bought one The AU 2 and 3 laid some great building blocks for the BA to go on with.
RIP Geoff Polites if only the current CEO of Ford Australia would have the same passion this man had.
Slightly off topic I belive there was a story of Geoff turning up to the launch of a new commodore in an XR6 turbo. Not sure where i read it maybe it was on here somewhere....

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Kieron

IIRC, Holden dropped the WB ute and Stato around the same time as the XE (which was the last of the V8's until EB) and partly prompted by the introduction of unleaded petrol in 86?

Not quite.
Ford announced the end of V8's in early 82 (the last one rolled off the line in November) and this immediately prompted Holden to develop a "series 2" for the WB. Production ended in late 84' two years after the cleveland.

The demise of the Clevo was certainly blamed on ULP (which never really explained why they killed it 3 years early) BUT IMHO it was a deliberate decision by the wallies running Ford at the time.
I recall an interview in which the CEO was asked why (after much speculation) FA had decided not to develop a turbo for the EA? And his reply was that such cars "only appeal to 'cowboys' and they're not the buyers we want."

Originally Posted by Kieron

Agreed though, the 1980's may have been Ford Australias golden year from their point of view but it was essentially resting on it's laurels with a fairly bland lineup, building up all those Ford fans through the 60's and 70's with aspirational model Falcons gave Ford those sales but with the lacklustre 80's image, new Ford fans weren't being created and ford started to pay the price in the 90's onwards to a degree.

Yeah, whilst it was a golden era for SALES, as you said they rested on their laurels.
And you're right about the new fans. No kid looked at the XF "s-pack" and thought "that's the car I want when I grow up."
Holden could get away with flogging the VL Skyline, because they STILL offered V8's (and even a turbo.)

[78xcgxl]

Ford did well in 2002-04 with the BA falcon, it won wheels car of year. The Territory was a smash hit success and together saved ford Australia. At the time production could not keep up with sheer demand! Very sad to think only 12 years ago Falcon was killing it and makes me scratch my head why the FG didn't have the success being 100 times better car than the BA and BF is every way.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Era of shame??? Yeah, being on TOP is shameful. Please. Not everyone is in to Bathurst you know.

Being on top selling sardine cans is not a 'Golden Era' who was ever inspired by an EA Falcon, no one I would say.

Golden Era would have been a time when you were proud to support the make, as the brand stood for something other than making disposable tin cans used by uninspired people driving to boring jobs. Pretty sure no kids were making drawings of EA/EB Falcons on their school books, but plenty lusted after a 'shaker' or a GT Falcon or a coupe.

I remember my best mates older brother picking me up from school in an XB GS V8 Coupe, now that was the stuff wet school boys dreams were made of We are still mates to this day and we all still own 70's coupes.

[MITCHAY]

Well I'm only 28 so for me it will be from the BA era onward where Ford delivered the XR6T, GE6T and the ultimate F6.

[Mont5.0]

In answer to the original question would have to be pre 1980's.
Back when ford had a factory sponsored race team and before the super car scare came into play. After that there was nothing as far as motor sport or even a v8 (xf-ea).

Modern day falcons are 2nd to none as far as performance go, but its the lull between then and now that killed it for Ford.

[vbvbvb088]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

That's a good point - the XF Ghia's interior was leagues ahead of anything from Holden at the time. VK Calais was ok but the VL was pretty bad inside.

Agreed. VL Berlina much nicer. Holden hard up $$$ wise. All VL boots (Camira/Gemini?) not painted black.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It was a certainly a good time for Ford. The Falcons were awesome, and yeah Locally built Laser was the no 1 small car. I was never really sold on the Telstar/ TX5. Not enough differentiation from the 626, and a liftback when Aussies ta that time wanted wagons.
BUT just as Holden had made a massive mistake with their VB Commode, Ford dropped the ball with the V8. That decision allowed Holden to continue selling their Kingswood based utes & Statesman, and surrendered the performance market to Holden for almost a decade. But for that mistake, Ford could have buried Holden so deep they never would have dug their way out.

I would not say that the VB Commodore was a mistake at all as they were a much better car than the XD Falcon.
Who sits 3 in the back anyroad and 3 kids are fine.
The commodore boot is much better and the VB handles far better than a XD.

I would say Holden got the size right with the VN-P-R-S as the VT-X-Y-Z is nothing bigger inside like and it's boot is shallow rubbish.
I could not believe that they made the VE so big and heavy and it's crap to try to look out of the great big fat tank.

The VB size commodore would be a top seller today.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by castellan

The VB size commodore would be a top seller today.

It is, it's about the same size as the current Corolla or Cruze...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

It is, it's about the same size as the current Corolla or Cruze...

Inside the Cruze is a lot smaller and not to mention gutless.

I thought we would get the Torana TT36 thing they showed off before the VE came out.

The XD rear seat was shocking in the rear centre it was as hard and uncomfortable as hell.

[vbvbvb088]

Originally Posted by castellan

Inside the Cruze is a lot smaller and not to mention gutless.

I thought we would get the Torana TT36 thing they showed off before the VE came out.

The XD rear seat was shocking in the rear centre it was as hard and uncomfortable as hell.

But channelled air-con via console for the rear passengers. Nice. Quad climate control.

[Adamz Ghia]

For me as a 28 year old it's the period 2001 through to 2004. In that time we got T3, FPV, the 4.0 Turbo and Territory. For me they were memorable times.

[minheim]

I would say it was the 70s when you had XW through to XC. I remember my best friend's older brother saying that when he owned an XY GT, that when people saw his car coming in their rear vision mirror they just moved aside. Ford had an image and a presence and more importantly a passion.

[Sprint XR8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Not quite.
Ford announced the end of V8's in early 82 (the last one rolled off the line in November) and this immediately prompted Holden to develop a "series 2" for the WB. Production ended in late 84' two years after the cleveland.

The demise of the Clevo was certainly blamed on ULP (which never really explained why they killed it 3 years early) BUT IMHO it was a deliberate decision by the wallies running Ford at the time.

It had nothing to do with ULP. Ford killed the Cleveland in 1982 to convert the plant to make 4 cyl motors for Telstar. At the time Ford believed the locally built Telstar would replace Falcon as their top seller.
The 4 cyl plant closed in 1987 only making a quarter of it's 90000 capacity p/a.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Mid 90s with the ED->EF makeover. Definitely pulled Falcon out of the 80s , superseded all its Japanese and local contemporaries by a mile, and topped the sales charts. And 2002-2004, the amazing turnaround year under the reins of Geoff Polites. Only Ford Australia could take an AU falcon and transform it into the BA, while also developing the Territory, in such a short time and small budget, in our high cost industry. Overall, of all the local carmakers, Ford's story is the most compelling and inspiring. The other local carmakers were just assemblers of foreign models or disguised Opels. Ford played the underdog many times and were often rejected as foreign even when they had the most local content and engineering.

Leaving aside performance cars and concentrating on the daily reality of cars meant for the streets, I think you're closest to the truth.

There's one other 100% locally developed car you overlooked, the P76 which completely outclassed Holden and Falcon as a design at the time. It took them 15-20 years to bring their cars up to the same level. Ford's finest time has come after the 1990s but unfortunately too late.

One factor that people overlook was that local production quality from the 60s to the 80s was simply awful and created a big hole that the Japanese just powered through to take over the market.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Mid 90s with the ED->EF makeover. Definitely pulled Falcon out of the 80s , superseded all its Japanese and local contemporaries by a mile, and topped the sales charts. And 2002-2004, the amazing turnaround year under the reins of Geoff Polites. Only Ford Australia could take an AU falcon and transform it into the BA, while also developing the Territory, in such a short time and small budget, in our high cost industry. Overall, of all the local carmakers, Ford's story is the most compelling and inspiring. The other local carmakers were just assemblers of foreign models or disguised Opels. Ford played the underdog many times and were often rejected as foreign even when they had the most local content and engineering.

I've been enjoying this thread with all the varying opinions put forward so far, but I find that this (in bold) just wreaks of Ford bias.

While the original VB/VC Commodores were an amalgam of Opel Senator & Rekord body parts with Australian running gear fitted, by the time we get to the VT-VZ era, the % of Australian design input was very high & not much Opel remained. I think you will find that with Peter Hanenberger at Holden's helm in the early 2000s, his input led to the VY/VZ series having the greatest number of body styles, even more than during Holden's 'Golden Era' of the early 70s (HQ series). Hell, we got 11 distinct body variants, when the AWD versions were added in. None of these were ever "Opels" of any type.

In the VT-VZ era the Aussie Falcon had a higher Aussie content than the equivalent Commodore, but not that much higher, depending on the model variant.

In terms of Aussie content, the highest of all time would be the Kingswoods of the late 60s. You would find it very difficult to find any part of those cars that were designed or made anywhere but here in Australia. These were the first Holden series with no Detroit design input (unlike the XR-XY equivalents) & everything was actually made here, even the car radios & speakers (try that today). The 6-cyl engine was uniquely Aussie, but like the Falcon 6-cyl its design origins was yankee. The 253/308 however has the distinction of being the only mass production car engine ever to be wholly designed & built in Australia, from its inception.

Now getting down off my soapbox for a moment, I believe that most impartial observers would find both the Ford Aust. & Holden stories are "compelling and inspiring", but both companies made big mistakes in their time. Ford dropping the V8 in XE & Holden using the smaller Commodore are amongst the biggest.

Isn't it strange that some people's idea of a "Golden Era" is different to others. More often that not being No. 1 in the sales race doesn't equate to either good product or great memories. In the XW-XY days (my favourite) Ford were not No. 1. When they were No.1, we got the XF/EA, not fondly remembered by many.

In Holden's history, would you believe that their highest vehicle sales in their was May 1965. That's right the HD, which with motoring writer's skill in hindsight is not held in high regard these days.

Dr Terry

[Trek]

Largely depends on the parameters used to define what is a golden age. However, in my mind there was three: XR-XC, EF/EL and BA/BF. My definition being when sales and demand were high, the cars were aesthetically appealing and performance variants were part of the image.

[eb2fairmont]

I'd say there is more than one period, but ranked in order

66-74 xr-xb
95-97 el and ef
2002-2005 ba-bf

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I've been enjoying this thread with all the varying opinions put forward so far, but I find that this (in bold) just wreaks of Ford bias.

While the original VB/VC Commodores were an amalgam of Opel Senator & Rekord body parts with Australian running gear fitted, by the time we get to the VT-VZ era, the % of Australian design input was very high & not much Opel remained. I think you will find that with Peter Hanenberger at Holden's helm in the early 2000s, his input led to the VY/VZ series having the greatest number of body styles, even more than during Holden's 'Golden Era' of the early 70s (HQ series). Hell, we got 11 distinct body variants, when the AWD versions were added in. None of these were ever "Opels" of any type.

In the VT-VZ era the Aussie Falcon had a higher Aussie content than the equivalent Commodore, but not that much higher, depending on the model variant.

In terms of Aussie content, the highest of all time would be the Kingswoods of the late 60s. You would find it very difficult to find any part of those cars that were designed or made anywhere but here in Australia. These were the first Holden series with no Detroit design input (unlike the XR-XY equivalents) & everything was actually made here, even the car radios & speakers (try that today). The 6-cyl engine was uniquely Aussie, but like the Falcon 6-cyl its design origins was yankee. The 253/308 however has the distinction of being the only mass production car engine ever to be wholly designed & built in Australia, from its inception.

Now getting down off my soapbox for a moment, I believe that most impartial observers would find both the Ford Aust. & Holden stories are "compelling and inspiring", but both companies made big mistakes in their time. Ford dropping the V8 in XE & Holden using the smaller Commodore are amongst the biggest.

Isn't it strange that some people's idea of a "Golden Era" is different to others. More often that not being No. 1 in the sales race doesn't equate to either good product or great memories. In the XW-XY days (my favourite) Ford were not No. 1. When they were No.1, we got the XF/EA, not fondly remembered by many.

In Holden's history, would you believe that their highest vehicle sales in their was May 1965. That's right the HD, which with motoring writer's skill in hindsight is not held in high regard these days.

Dr Terry

How does one say that Ford dropping the V8 was a mistake, not to Ford Australia is was not, but to me it was.

How does one say that Holden having the small VB to VL was a big mistake, it was not as they sold very well.

The days to look back on were the XR to XA V8's that can set them apart from all the rest of days gone by.
XC ZH on for better comfort.
EB on for a better type of car all round.